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Sony trying game/Blu-Ray combo deal

PostPosted:Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:56 pm
by Zeus
Idiots

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/953/953492p1.html

There's a few reasons why this is so fucking stupid:

1) Blu-Rays are already too expensive - knowing Sony's strategy, they're going to try to charge $5 to $10 less for the combo than if you tried to buy the game and Blu-Ray separately. But the damned movies are already too expensive so it's only going to bring it down closer to DVD price while paying full price for the game

2) They're on one disc - I don't want my freakin' movie and game on one disc. So if I sell it or let someone borrow it, I'm out two things instead of one? This screams of a company trying to do what's best for them (ie. fill up the "unused" space on the Blu-Ray disc of a game they're already printing while charging more) rather than what's best for the consumer.

3) The system is still too damned expensive - what they're trying to do is increase the "value" of the PS3 through the fact it has a Blu-Ray player built in by giving you a "deal" on the products you "want" for it. Assume only 5% of the population is stupid enough to overpay for this "deal". With the userbase not particularly high due to the cost of the system itself, you ain't gonna sell too many of these things. Plain and simple: sales will increase when the price drops, nothing else works

4) Blu-Ray is too niche to matter - we've had this argument before, no sense in re-hashing. Simply put: Blu-Ray ain't desirable enough to pay a premium for either the combo or the system except to a small percentage of people. Sales of the system prove that.

PostPosted:Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:12 pm
by Tessian
I have to agree, unfortunately.

PostPosted:Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:24 pm
by bovine
my problem with it is that the blu ray version of the movie and the game don't come out at the same time. If (god forbid) a good movie based game was made, I wouldn't mind it being on the same disc as the movie. In fact, if you've ever experienced a blu ray movie, they have no real special features that make it any more special than the dvd release, let alone HD special features.

In summation, if a good movie based game were to come out and be bundled with the movie, at a reduced price of buying them separately, I would be all over this deal. Maybe if they released these game a bit later, say when the home version of the movie comes out, they might actually be able to lift the quality of this legendarily bad genre.

PostPosted:Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:31 pm
by Zeus
Tessian wrote:I have to agree, unfortunately.
This seems to occur at an alarming rate :-)

PostPosted:Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:33 pm
by Tessian
Zeus wrote:
Tessian wrote:I have to agree, unfortunately.
This seems to occur at an alarming rate :-)
Only when you're not being a childish douchebag who has to undermine his entire argument with stupid ass phrases like "M$" "Shitsa" etc. It's amazing what you can do without resorting to pathetic name calling, isn't it?

PostPosted:Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:03 pm
by Zeus
Tessian wrote:
Zeus wrote:
Tessian wrote:I have to agree, unfortunately.
This seems to occur at an alarming rate :-)
Only when you're not being a childish douchebag who has to undermine his entire argument with stupid ass phrases like "M$" "Shitsa" etc. It's amazing what you can do without resorting to pathetic name calling, isn't it?
If I had a good pet name for Sony, I would certainly have used it extensively in this post. They deserve it with bullshit like this.

And I think you're missing the point with those pet names. They're used when a company does something stupid and ridiculous and deserves to be slandered. Look at when I use names like Microshaft or M$, it's usually when they're trying to fuck you for stuff you should be getting for free (or not at all like in the case of Team Fortress 2 which Valve wants to update but doesn't want to charge for; the L4D update being free was a big "win" on their part). Same with a name like Shitsa due to it's - in my opinion - horrible GUI.

At the end of the day, if you're going to ignore an entire argument over something silly like that, I'll be sure to use them even more to ensure you never agree with me and brush off my posts as useless for no reason. I'd rather not have someone critique my posts who's not even going to read them or have a ridiculous bias like that. So expect far more of that in my posts from now on.

PostPosted:Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:25 am
by Tessian
Zeus wrote: I'd rather not have someone critique my posts who's not even going to read them or have a ridiculous bias like that. So expect far more of that in my posts from now on.
So when you destroy your own credibility by showing ridiculous bias with childish insults and I call you out on it... somehow that makes ME ridiculously biased?

That's some astounding logic there

PostPosted:Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:47 am
by Zeus
Tessian wrote:
Zeus wrote: I'd rather not have someone critique my posts who's not even going to read them or have a ridiculous bias like that. So expect far more of that in my posts from now on.
So when you destroy your own credibility by showing ridiculous bias with childish insults and I call you out on it... somehow that makes ME ridiculously biased?

That's some astounding logic there
Exactly. As long as you're fully aware of that, then we have no issues.

Now, let's get past this ridiculousness and set up a time to play Horde Mode on Hardcore

PostPosted:Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:50 am
by Kupek
Zeus, read this essay on cursing: Why We Curse

In particular, pay attention to this paragraph near the end:
Language has often been called a weapon, and people should be mindful about where to aim it and when to fire. The common denominator of taboo words is the act of forcing a disagreeable thought on someone, and it's worth considering how often one really wants one's audience to be reminded of excrement, urine, and exploitative sex. Even in its mildest form, intended only to keep the listener's attention, the lazy use of profanity can feel like a series of jabs in the ribs. They are annoying to the listener and a confession by the speaker that he can think of no other way to make his words worth attending to.
Clearly what you are doing is not exactly the same, but it's similar. It's why we find your pet names so annoying. You're forcing us to think about the childishness of "Microshaft" and "Shitsa" while we're trying to read your argument. It's annoying, and it distracts us from thinking about what you are saying. By doing it, you're discouraging us from paying attention to your point.

It also puts the cart before the horse: your argument is usually about what that company did wrong, but in order to not be annoyed with your pet name, we need to already agree with you. Let your arguments stand on their own.

We're only human. It's possible for us to extract just your argument from what you wrote, but it takes effort to get over the silly pet names. Why force us to do that? It's easier to just ignore everything than spending the mental effort to remove your bias from the statement so that we can approach your argument without bias.

PostPosted:Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:33 pm
by SineSwiper
Nutscape Navigator.

PostPosted:Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:35 pm
by Zeus
SineSwiper wrote:Nutscape Navigator.
That one is great :-)

PostPosted:Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:14 am
by Chris
SineSwiper wrote:Nutscape Navigator.
it's a good ride.

PostPosted:Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:18 am
by Zeus
Kupek wrote:Zeus, read this essay on cursing: Why We Curse

In particular, pay attention to this paragraph near the end:
Language has often been called a weapon, and people should be mindful about where to aim it and when to fire. The common denominator of taboo words is the act of forcing a disagreeable thought on someone, and it's worth considering how often one really wants one's audience to be reminded of excrement, urine, and exploitative sex. Even in its mildest form, intended only to keep the listener's attention, the lazy use of profanity can feel like a series of jabs in the ribs. They are annoying to the listener and a confession by the speaker that he can think of no other way to make his words worth attending to.
Clearly what you are doing is not exactly the same, but it's similar. It's why we find your pet names so annoying. You're forcing us to think about the childishness of "Microshaft" and "Shitsa" while we're trying to read your argument. It's annoying, and it distracts us from thinking about what you are saying. By doing it, you're discouraging us from paying attention to your point.

It also puts the cart before the horse: your argument is usually about what that company did wrong, but in order to not be annoyed with your pet name, we need to already agree with you. Let your arguments stand on their own.

We're only human. It's possible for us to extract just your argument from what you wrote, but it takes effort to get over the silly pet names. Why force us to do that? It's easier to just ignore everything than spending the mental effort to remove your bias from the statement so that we can approach your argument without bias.
Language as a weapon? Are you fucking kidding me? That's a huge fucking problem with many people I've noticed, they see disagreements/arguments as destructive, you vs me bullshit. Regardless of how strongly opinions are expressed, you should never view it in a destructive manner. Filter out the meaning and argue on those merits; keep arguments constructive. For once, assume the person is just expressing an opinion as opposed to conducting an attack. If the person is only going to do personal attacks without actually making a point, then there's no reason to continue with the conversation (hence my decree never to have anything but a superficial discussion with Seek). But to even have the mentality that language is EVER a weapon is idiocy. That's an extremely childish way to approach conversation and shows what kind of bias this guy really has.

Enough of this guy, back to the discussion at hand. If you know for a fact that those pet names are an expression of frustration as opposed to a lack of a "way to make my words worth attending to" or enforcing a bias upon others, is it not then up to the reader to use their judgment to get past it? The onus can also be on the reader/audience as well it's not always solely on the shoulders of the speaker.

I'm not writing an essay here or engaging in a formal debate, I'm partaking in discussions in an informal social setting. When conversing with others, there's always idiosyncrasies of the speaker you need to take into account. You can call it "context" or "intent" or whatever. But basically, there's more to the meaning than simply the definition of the words themselves or even a common "meaning" to the phrase, yes? I think your reference to this essay at least recognizes such. So when Chris says "go eat a bag of dicks" it's a playful jab as opposed to an insult to be taken seriously. We know that because we know him.

It should be the same with these pet names that I give to companies. You guys know for a fact that it's an expression of frustration as opposed to forcing an opinion upon someone else; I've explained my reasoning many times to everyone. I'm not talking to people who have just met me or who are reading my posts for the first time (well, that may happen on occasion, but it's more of an exception) otherwise it would be a bit different. Same if I were engaged in writing an essay or in a formal setting. My words would be chosen far more carefully and the manner in which I would express myself would be far more subdued. So, as a reader armed with this knowledge, is it not your responsibility to brush them off as an expression of frustration rather than feeling the need to agree with my bias the same way you brush off Chris' insults because you know they're not intended to be personal or mean-spirited?

Why do I make you put the effort to get over the silly pet names? Well, it's actually not a conscious choice in that way. I'm expression my feelings/opinion, that's why I do it. I'm an accountant, I think in terms of efficiency. Rather than spending 4 sentences trying to explain my stance on the company Microsoft and their business practices, I can do all that by using the term Microshaft and you get the same meaning out of it (ie. I think they are an unscrupulous, predatory company who does nothing but extract from the consumer every penny it can, often forcefully due to their stature as basically a monopoly). Isn't that the point of conversation, to portray a point? If I can say it in one word instead of 4 sentences, why not? Hell, look at how long this freakin' post is. I could far more easily say the exact same things in about a quarter of the words if I wasn't actually trying to work within "human nature" (I disagree that what your retort is anything more than a learned behaviour - a social norm - but that's a different argument) and being careful as to not attack the reader. Since everyone is always so busy and we live in a fast moving world, isn't efficiency more welcomed?

So the next logical question is: if I know the method is an issue, why don't I change the way I express myself so as to not make it more difficult for my friends (or family)? Simple: you know for a fact the meaning behind it yet still choose to interpret it in a wrong way. Since it's been discussed it has now become a conscious choice of the reader to take it as an insult or ignore the argument rather than a subconscious one. So why should I be forced to conform to others' biases? You're telling me "don't force your opinion/bias on me" yet turn around and enforce yours upon me. I believe the common term for such behaviour is "hypocrisy".

Really, what I'm saying is: the same way you just "get past" so many other idiosyncrasies of basically everyone else here without even thinking about it, you should be able to get past my pet names now. We all do it for everyone here all the time (that's why we can still stand each other) so why is this particular one impossible for some to get past? And there's no such thing as approaching any conversation/essay/debate without bias. The reader and the writer will always have bias regardless of how hard they try not to or what their education/intelligence level is.

PostPosted:Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:41 am
by Kupek
You seem to have gotten stuck on his first sentence, and not considered any of the rest - which is the point of the paragraph.

It comes down to this: if your concern when you speak is for us to listen and think about what you have to say, then that's best done without your pet names.

PostPosted:Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:43 am
by Zeus
Kupek wrote:You seem to have gotten stuck on his first sentence, and not considered any of the rest - which is the point of the paragraph.
I could say the exact same for you when you saw my post. You pretty much read the first paragraph and ignored the rest of the novel. The very first sentence of the second paragraph says "whatever, let me reply to the points you made in your post rather than focusing on this biased guy" and that's what all that black and gold above is doing. But you seemed to ignore that

PostPosted:Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:50 am
by Kupek
I commented on that because I think he makes a good point, one that is related to the one I'm trying to make. I read your whole post, but I don't particularly care to respond to every single point you made, because one, it would take too long, and two, we'd get into a dozen side discussions.

So, I tried to reign the discussion back in to what I consider my most important point.

PostPosted:Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:30 am
by Mental
Sony is at least somewhat fucked going into the next few years, and they deserve it flagrantly. Couldn't happen to a bunch of nicer, half-insane/crazed with money-and-power execs...

They made bets on a variety of VERY high-cost consumer items as their flagship products when it should have been very, very clear that the U.S. economy (one of their biggest markets, if not the biggest - not sure how U.S./Japanese sales stack up for Sony, my guess is we're the second biggest country in terms of sales for them) was on shaky ground. Now, they can reap the benefits of selling extremely high-end stuff in a time when most people don't have anywhere near the cash to drop on the PS3/Blu-Ray in general, and etc.

IMO, they deserve the humbling...they were starting to lose their damn minds with all that sketchy, vaguely offensive, meaningless advertising I saw back in 2006. I really swear that I thought their marketing team was all on coke when I saw that "puppet" ad...

PostPosted:Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:47 am
by Zeus
Kupek wrote:I commented on that because I think he makes a good point, one that is related to the one I'm trying to make. I read your whole post, but I don't particularly care to respond to every single point you made, because one, it would take too long, and two, we'd get into a dozen side discussions.

So, I tried to reign the discussion back in to what I consider my most important point.
And I tried to reply to that with what I thought was more prevalent as it looked like you may have missed some important points. But i guess it'll end there.