E3 2010

[Eric]

Anybody looking forward to anything in particular?!

Should we keep all the E3 news to one thread?....like this one?! :p

[Julius Seeker]

Of course =)

3DS to be shown
Nintendo running a 2 hour press conference instead of the usual 1 hour.
Legend of Zelda
Any surprises brought to the table.
Hopefully some details about Final Fantasy 13-2 and Dragon Quest X.

[Eric]

Square hasn't said spit about FF Versus XIII, it's rather odd, I don't even think it's in their E3 line-up.

[Eric]

Kotaku got some 3DS leakage.

http://kotaku.com/5561086/is-this-nintendos-3ds

[Eric]

Some preshow goodies.

Killzone 3 Gameplay Trailer
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... e-3/101188

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II Cinematic Trailer
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... rce/101182

Fallout 3: Las Vegas Gameplay Trailer
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... new/101172

Marvel vs Capcom 3 extended Trailer
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... -vs/101063

Dead Space 2 Gameplay
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... e-2/101174

E3 2010 Rumors
http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/70529 ... Stuff.html
http://video.ign.com/dor/articles/98362 ... ml?show=hi

[Julius Seeker]

Kotaku got some 3DS leakage.

http://kotaku.com/5561086/is-this-nintendos-3ds

1. I wonder that that means "3D analog stick"?
2. In terms of power, I am guessing that it is going to be in the area of 450MHz on the CPU.
3. The 3D camera.... I have never really heard of anything like that before, what does that mean? 2 lenses? =)
4. A slider may be included in the hardware to adjust 3D levels; something will be there, I always assumed a switch of some sort.
5. I heard that the screens were going to be very close to each other; so much that developers could use both screens as one; This doesn't look likely if the top screen is larger than the bottom; although, considering the later news that only the top screen is 3D, maybe this will be the case.

A few more things I forgot to mention:
1. I am interested to see if Nintendo will reveal details on their next home console, which should be out in around a year and a half. This is more of a long shot than anything considering the time distance; but when it comes out, they'll have had 4-5 years in developing their next-generation motion control technology.
2. More Wii Health Pack stuff. I am interested to see how they will integrate the new Vitality sensor into this line. In my opinion, this is the second most important development of this generation of consoles right next to Motion controls; which is the defining characteristic of this gen.

[Zeus]

I hope to hell that rumoured compilation of ICO and Shadow of the Colossus comes out with The Last Guardian and both come out this year. It would be phenomenal to play Shadow in HD.

[Eric]

Project Natal = Kinect

http://kotaku.com/5562387/new-xbox-360- ... ts-renamed

[Julius Seeker]

The best part about this is that I never have to hear a pretentious Xbox nerd say "HEY!... It's pronounced Nut-Tol." ever again.

[SineSwiper]

The best part about this is that I never have to hear a pretentious Xbox nerd say "HEY!... It's pronounced Nut-Tol." ever again.

Why would a pretentious Xbox nerd slam the 360 by calling it "Nut-Tol"? That sounds like Nutscrape.

[Kupek]

It's worth noting that this is based off an Italian ad, and it's possible they will use something else for the English speaking countries.

edit: Looks like other sites have plenty of English-language material calling it Kinect.

[Julius Seeker]

Well, Microsoft's conference is over. I was glancing in on it.

There were a lot of sequels to gun shooting games;
Kinect with Kinect Sports (a sports mini-game compilation;
Kinectimals, which is a virtual pet game;
Fable 3 which had an interesting setting, it looks to be around the early modern imperialiasm era.
Xbox-lite was also revealed; essentially a correctly constructed 360 console.

[Flip]

Well, Microsoft's conference is over. I was glancing in on it.

There were a lot of sequels to gun shooting games;
Kinect with Kinect Sports (a sports mini-game compilation;
Kinectimals, which is a virtual pet game;
Fable 3 which had an interesting setting, it looks to be around the early modern imperialiasm era.
Xbox-lite was also revealed; essentially a correctly constructed 360 console.

Thats a pretty sad list. Five years after launch and everything is sequels, a Wii knockoff, and a slim system that works. I was hoping for some amazing stuff, but i guess that will be in a few years still. It is nice that the lifespan of these systems is a lot longer than the others used to be. I suppose a high price will do that.

[Eric]

Fable III Trailer!

http://kotaku.com/5563369/fable-iii-e3- ... revolution

Star Wars: The Old Republic, cause who doesn't like CGI Star Wars fights?

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... ars/101162

Rayman: Origins! 2D Goodness!

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... ins/101436

[Zeus]

Rayman looks freakin' awesome. Every generation we talk about the disappearance of 2D but it seems to hang on by a thread. Let's hope they keep making games like Boy and his Blob, Muramasa, and Rayman.

And the fuckers had better free Ancel to do Beyond Good and Evil 2 after that's done.....

[Julius Seeker]

Nintendo press conference:
3DS:
- 3D projected screen (no glasses)
- 3D camera on the back for taking 3D photos
- Slider to adjust 3D
- 3D analog stick + Traditional DS interface
- Additional face camera
- Deal with Disney, Dreamworks, and Warner for stereoscopic 3D movies
- 3D Kid Icarus game shown

Wii:
- exclusive Goldeneye 007 remake!
- Donkey Kong Country 4 by Retro
- Legend of Zelda: The Skyward Sword (back to a much more colourful art-style,
- Kirby Wii
- Sonic Colour
- known games like Epic Mickey and Metroid Other M shown

[Julius Seeker]

3DS games announced of interest:

Kid Icarus: Uprising
Super Street Fighter IV 3D
Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D
Final Fantasy title (6 or 7 remake?)
Dragon quest title (Dragon Quest X?)
Kingdom Hearts
Persona
Professor Layton: The Miracle Mask
Devil Survivor
RIIIIIIIDGE Racer!!!!!
Contra 3D
Ninja Gaiden 3D
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
Ghost Recon
Mario Kart
Animal Crossing
Starfox 3D
Pilot Wings Resort
Gauntlet 3D
Assassin's Creed 3D
Super Mario 64 3D remake 

[bovine]

3ds = I have a painful erection.

[M'k'n'zy]

3DS is going to be so much win for Nintendo. I have to say I watched all 3 press confrenses and Nintendo blew both Sony and Microsoft out of the water, IMHO. Kirby Epic Yarn looks incredibly fun, as does Goldeneye. I cant wait for the new Golden Sun, and Epic Mickey looks better every time I see the game!

[Julius Seeker]

I think Sony really dropped the ball. The Move bundle costs $100 which comes with:
-Controller detection camera
-Sony Move Sports
-1 Wiimote

The nunchuck is an additional $30
The Charge station costs an additional $30
Additional Sony PS3motes cost $50

I am not an expert on marketing, but I would estimate that it is probably standard that immitation brand products are cheaper than the real deal.

The unit supports 4 controllers total (including both main and sub controllers).

It took Sony 4 years to get this out.

Now all of this doesn't yet include the PS3 console. The total bundle costs $399 for two controllers, 1 sub controller, sports compilation game, and detection camera (correct me if I am wrong).

[SineSwiper]

Sony is greedy and stupid.

I think there's more to the XBox list in terms of games coming out. That's really all I care about. Could care less about some 3D crap.

[Julius Seeker]

Penny-Arcade sums up E3 in a nutshell

[Anarky]

Twisted Metal on PS3

[Don]

I'm curious how much the 3DS will cost since Nintendo isn't exactly known for hardware expertise.

[Lox]

I'm guessing somewhere between $200-$225.

[Zeus]

I'm curious how much the 3DS will cost since Nintendo isn't exactly known for hardware expertise.

I'd put it at 90% that it'll launch at $200. That's a magic price point that Nintendo has only broken once in its entire history (with the Wii) and I really can't see them doing it for a handheld, at least not yet

[Don]

Yes but since Nintendo isn't an innovator of hardware technology they can't get new hardware for cheap, so they might have to take a loss on the hardware which is something they've never done before either. I assume this 3D stuff isn't going to come for cheap and you'd need something more powerful than a DS to run those graphics to begin with.

[Zeus]

Yes but since Nintendo isn't an innovator of hardware technology they can't get new hardware for cheap, so they might have to take a loss on the hardware which is something they've never done before either. I assume this 3D stuff isn't going to come for cheap and you'd need something more powerful than a DS to run those graphics to begin with.

You do know that they can sell the Wii for $150 right now and still make decent coin, yes? Hell, they could almost sell it for $100 and still turn a profit. So, you get technology at about that level, which is about what they'd need to run games properly on it, and a sweetheart deal from Sharp (who's trying to showcase their product too, so it's not out of the question at all) and they can still easily make a profit at $200. I would be very, very surprised if it was more than $200. To me, that's the ceiling for handhelds, particularly when you consider that Nintendo will never market it as anything other than a gaming machine and $200 is fucking steep for a gaming-only machine, about people's limit (used to be $200 for consoles and $100 for handhelds, but that changed in the last couple generations by $100 or so).

And as you mentioned, Nintendo doesn't lose money on hardware, it's just not their business model. They're not going to start now. They may not innovate new technologies but they are masters and putting together viable and cheaply-made versions of available technology. And they do have a pretty large hardware division and have proven to put together very high-quality (if not high-powered) hardware in the past at very affordable, mass-market prices. You shouldn't expect anything different this time.

[bovine]

I would pay $300 for it.

[Don]

Obviously none of us would actually know the exact margins that goes into hardware but Nintendo strikes me as the company (out of the 3 consoles) that's least likely to have the lowest cost on hardware and who knows, maybe this new technology is cheaper than it looks, but it seems like it can't be that cheap.

[Eric]

This is rather impressive looking, heh.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... den/700566

[SineSwiper]

I would pay $300 for it.

People pay $600 for a damn iPhone, so why not?

[Zeus]

Obviously none of us would actually know the exact margins that goes into hardware but Nintendo strikes me as the company (out of the 3 consoles) that's least likely to have the lowest cost on hardware and who knows, maybe this new technology is cheaper than it looks, but it seems like it can't be that cheap.

Least likely to have lowest cost on hardware? Don, you seriously don't think that, do you? Tell me you just missed a smiley face or something.....

[Don]

I'm not sure why it's so hard to grasp that since Nintendo doesn't develop its own hardware (not sure about Microsoft but Sony obviously do research their own) ends up paying more for the same hardware since they have to buy it off someone else. Yes Nintendo systems are cheaper overall since they're usually a generation behind in terms of firepower. I'm seeing one site quoting they estimate the 3DS will cost $249-$299, and just because Nintendo traditionally has never launched a system above $200 doesn't mean there's some magic that makes any system they choose to launch cost less than $200. Like Sine pointed out people are willing to spend a lot of money for IPhone so it's probably not a big deal, but cutting edge technology isn't cheap especially when you're not the one who developed it.

[Lox]

Even if Nintendo did take a hit on the 3DS, I think they'd be the best company to do it. I imagine the game-to-system ratio is pretty favorable. Heck, I own probably 20-25 games easy.

[Don]

Nintendo has a pretty solid strangehold in the handheld market so they're certainly in the position to try new things, but this is pretty different from their traditional strategy of selling relatively cheap/weak hardware so I'm curious how it'll turn out. Obviously Sony made a ton of money selling powerful hardware so it's not like it's inherently good or bad either way.

[Eric]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... 010/700825

And now for the painfully awful moments of E3 ;p

[Julius Seeker]

I'm not sure why it's so hard to grasp that since Nintendo doesn't develop its own hardware (not sure about Microsoft but Sony obviously do research their own) ends up paying more for the same hardware since they have to buy it off someone else.

You have made two assumptions here that are not quite accurate.

First, Nintendo does develop its own hardware; they have done so since the 1970's. Their handheld consoles are are developed by Nintendo Research Engineering & Development Division, which is descended from R&D1 headed formerly headed by Gameboy creator Gunpei Yokoi.

Second, on the price of outsourcing components. Outsourcing components is often cheaper; Microsoft actually outsources the most of the three companies (MS is chiefly a software company: Sony who outsources the least, is an electronics company), and the Xbox 360 is much cheaper to manufacture than the PS3. A good example is the CPU in Xbox 360 which is manufactured by IBM in Taiwan; it is cheaper than Sony's own PS3 chip, which is roughly the same power. For outsourcing, the companies making the bids usually specialize in their components, and can offer them more cheaply. So rather than spending billions in development and setting up facilties to manufacture, Microsoft just got IBM to manufacture chips that they would otherwise already be mass producing for other products in facilities which already exist.

[Zeus]

I'm not sure why it's so hard to grasp that since Nintendo doesn't develop its own hardware (not sure about Microsoft but Sony obviously do research their own) ends up paying more for the same hardware since they have to buy it off someone else. Yes Nintendo systems are cheaper overall since they're usually a generation behind in terms of firepower. I'm seeing one site quoting they estimate the 3DS will cost $249-$299, and just because Nintendo traditionally has never launched a system above $200 doesn't mean there's some magic that makes any system they choose to launch cost less than $200. Like Sine pointed out people are willing to spend a lot of money for IPhone so it's probably not a big deal, but cutting edge technology isn't cheap especially when you're not the one who developed it.

Don, perhaps you haven't been paying attention for the last 25 years, but Nintendo's business model is to make money on hardware. Has been the case right from the beginning. They will not release a piece of hardware without making money on it right off the bat. Was that way with the NES, SNES, GB, N64, GBA, GC, DS, and Wii, why the hell would they change now?

And they have very much been developing their own hardware, they are as much of a hardware company as they are a software company. Just because they don't develop the CPU, GPU, or some of the other components doesn't mean they don't develop their own hardware. Hell, the reason it was called the Xbox was because it was DirectX in a box, right? Well, did you ever see what components were in there? I believe it was an nVidia graphics card, a Mitsui DVD-ROM, and an off-the-shelf CPU with a custom motherboard if I'm not mistaken. Microsoft doesn't make any hardware either, they're exactly like Nintendo that way. Except Nintendo makes money off of theirs by "underpowering" their hardware and not going for the loss-leader business model.

The GC was noticeably more powerful than the PS2 yet it was a $200 launch point (half of the PS2) and they made money off the bat. How? We call them "business partnerships". I know the only reason you ever looked at a GC was in disgust, but if you looked at the box, there was an ATI symbol on it. ATI paid for that bringing Nintendo's cost down. Couple that with the production efficiencies they've gained over the previous 20+ years and they ended up with a more powerful system at a significantly lower price point.

Oh, and their hardware has never even failed at a 5% rate, not to mention the 80%+ some of their competitors have run into. Love 'em or hate 'em, give props where props are due. Nintendo has consistently made the highest-quality hardware with significantly lower failure rates than their competitors at a significantly lower price. And other than the Wii, they have actually always been more powerful, too.

[SineSwiper]

Oh, and their hardware has never even failed at a 5% rate, not to mention the 80%+ some of their competitors have run into. Love 'em or hate 'em, give props where props are due. Nintendo has consistently made the highest-quality hardware with significantly lower failure rates than their competitors at a significantly lower price. And other than the Wii, they have actually always been more powerful, too.

And other than the Gamecube, AND the Nintendo 64, AND the Gameboy Puke Green Edition, AND the NDS, etc. Always making money on your hardware comes at a price, but sometimes it works well.

[SineSwiper]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... 010/700825

And now for the painfully awful moments of E3 ;p

This is what happens when most of the conference is about casual gamer shit. Casual gamers don't go to E3.

[Zeus]

Oh, and their hardware has never even failed at a 5% rate, not to mention the 80%+ some of their competitors have run into. Love 'em or hate 'em, give props where props are due. Nintendo has consistently made the highest-quality hardware with significantly lower failure rates than their competitors at a significantly lower price. And other than the Wii, they have actually always been more powerful, too.

And other than the Gamecube, AND the Nintendo 64, AND the Gameboy Puke Green Edition, AND the NDS, etc. Always making money on your hardware comes at a price, but sometimes it works well.

OK, some reality checks for the uninformed Nintendo-bashers are in order:

1) GC was effectively more powerful than the PS2 (if not in terms of pure horsepower but rather useful horsepower) but not the Xbox. The on-board texture compression was a brilliant idea
2) N64 was more powerful than the Saturn or PSX...easy. Blurred textures was actually a business decision.....a stupid one, but a conscious decision nonetheless
3) 3DS is going to be significantly more powerful than any other smartphone or gaming system, period

Yes, the GB was always a glorified calculator, but the handhelds are the exception to the rule aside from the 3DS which is going to be significantly more powerful than its competitors. I was referring to the consoles. But console-wise? The NES vs Master system I'm not sure of but the SNES was certainly a better machine than the Genesis, which was a one-trick pony. The N64 was more powerful than the PS2 and other than a couple of exceptions, the GC games were prettier than the PS2 games. Wii was a conscious decision not to get into an arms race...and it worked.

At least your bias didn't overtake your logic completely and you refrained from trying to challenge the failure rate claim I made above.....

[Zeus]

3 games I'm surprised no one is talking about:

1) Kid Icarus on 3DS: essentially Star Fox 64 set in the Kid Icarus universe, but not as much on-rails stuff. Looks like it could be neat.

2) Child of Eden: Sine, this is Rez 2. And it looks phenomenal.

3) Deus Ex 3: Robo Blade Runner Cop: I'm no huge Deus Ex fan, not having played any of them significantly, but wow, that was a phenomenal trailer. Let's see if the gameplay holds up

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3179935

[Zeus]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... 010/700825

And now for the painfully awful moments of E3 ;p

This is what happens when most of the conference is about casual gamer shit. Casual gamers don't go to E3.

Yeah, and nothing at E3 ever really makes its way to other, more mass-market forms of media. I don't get why they're wasting their time, either. Idiots with too much money and too little brains.....

[Zeus]

Hold on a sec, Sony's actually gonna sell the Move ($50), it's related nunchuck-like attachment ($30), and Eye separately or all in one bundle ($100 total)? The first grandmother that buys that for their grandson and watches that grandson open up the Move and not being able to play it 'cause there's no Eye (how many people actually have that thing? 4, including me?) is gonna freak

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3179890

Stupid selling strategy, IMO. Causes confusion where there doesn't need to be any. Simply put, there are way too many pieces (3 total; you can actually substitute the DualShock 3 for the nunchuck) that need to function in unison for this thing to work and their selling strategy is only going to confuse the issue. IMO, at best this will be a very niche product that won't have any traction at all come next summer, regardless how hard Sony tries to push it. It's essentially dead before it comes out.

Kinect has only a slightly higher chance or surviving to Xmas 2011 but at the price point it's coming out at ($150 - $200), it's essentially dead before it comes out too. Guess we'll have to wait for next generation (in 2013 the way these guys are talking) before we see some real innovation to the Wii's very basic motion control scheme.

[bovine]

Yo dawg, I am mad excited for this virtual boy 2 to come out.

[Eric]

[Julius Seeker]

The Kinect has me wondering though:

1. Can it distinguish between multiple players very well? Will I be player 1 at one moment and player 3 the next?

2. What about between a player and a couch?

3. For an execise game, if I am lying against the floor, will it be able to correctly distinguish me.

4. Will there be any add-ons that allow for force-feedback?

5. What happens if someone else enters the field of play who is not actually playing the game or using the interface?

[SineSwiper]

1) GC was effectively more powerful than the PS2 (if not in terms of pure horsepower but rather useful horsepower) but not the Xbox. The on-board texture compression was a brilliant idea
2) N64 was more powerful than the Saturn or PSX...easy. Blurred textures was actually a business decision.....a stupid one, but a conscious decision nonetheless
3) 3DS is going to be significantly more powerful than any other smartphone or gaming system, period

The N64 didn't have a CD-ROM drive; your argument is invalid.

[Zeus]

1) GC was effectively more powerful than the PS2 (if not in terms of pure horsepower but rather useful horsepower) but not the Xbox. The on-board texture compression was a brilliant idea
2) N64 was more powerful than the Saturn or PSX...easy. Blurred textures was actually a business decision.....a stupid one, but a conscious decision nonetheless
3) 3DS is going to be significantly more powerful than any other smartphone or gaming system, period

The N64 didn't have a CD-ROM drive; your argument is invalid.

Explain how choice of input media affects the horsepower of the hardware