The Shrine

1) "This is a God of War / Devil May Cry rip-off"

No, it's not, it's much more than that. It certainly does initially appear to be a blatant God of War rip-off, particularly if you played that horrible demo. But if you try to play it like God of War, you're dead. You absolutely must block / dodge to survive the combat (in fact, there are a list of moves related to block and dodge that you can obtain that make the combat easier), even with a group of regular enemies. It's particularly important when you start getting the slightly stronger enemies. And that's not even counting the Shadow of the Colossus-like boss battles (like the one at the end of the second world; it was awesome).

The game is actually set up like a cross between Super Mario Bros 3, Castlevania 3, and Symphony of the Night. There are 12 "worlds" with about 5-10 levels in each world. It is completely linear in that you go from one level to the next in order, finish the world, then go to the next world. Each level is similar to a God of War level in that it's mainly linear with some exploration. Except, unlike God of War, there are a lot of extra parts or items which you cannot reach until you get certain skills and come back. You have your Gorgon Eyes (health) / Phoenix Feather (magic) upgradable things to collect but there's also some gems and weapon upgrades as well as level-specific challenges (ie. beat this level without healing) in order to get 100% (on top of having to beat it on the top difficulty level). And you earn experience points which you can use to learn new skills or magic. You can choose what you learn so you can tailor Gabriel's (yes, he's a Belmont) skill set to your playing style. So it bring some RPG-like elements in like Symphony did, but more about the character's skill set as opposed to the drops from the enemies.

The voice acting (Patrick Stewart narrates and is a main secondary character, Robert Carlyle is Gabriel) and storyline (lot of cutscenes to flush it out), at least for the three or so hours, are excellent, as are the graphics. I would say on par with God of War 3 in all categories.

2) "This is another horrible 3D Castlevania"

The only people who say that are a) people who only played Castlevania 64 and nothing else, b) people who haven't played this one at all or just played the fucking horrible demo, or c) 3D Castlevania bashers. This game is far different and much better than any previous 3D Castlevania before it. Don't compare it to any of the N64 or PS2/Xbox ones

3) "This isn't a Metroidvania game, therefore it sucks"

No, it would suck if all we got were Metroidvania games. Don't get me wrong, I luvs my Metroidvania games, they're great (particularly Aria of Sorrow, that was the best one). But it would be so nice to get a proper 3D Castlevania. Remember when Castlevania 64 was announced and a lot of people were actually excited to see what it would look like in 3D and about the possibilities with the extra dimension? Well, you've finally gotten your great 3D Castlevania game. It's been a long time coming and you've had to wade through a lot of shitty games (and 15 years) but we're finally there.

In short, if you've always wanted a good 3D Castlevania game you've got it. It's up to you if you care anymore. If you have no opinion of Castlevania, this is a pretty solid 3D action game with a great story, excellent graphics and voice acting, and some RPG elements and extra stuff to go back and do to add depth and replayability on top of it's length (an easy 20+ hours for first-time play through without backtracking). As good as any 3D action game I've played in a while.

I've got it, but haven't played it yet. For the record, I loved the other 3D game on the PS2.

SineSwiper wrote:I've got it, but haven't played it yet. For the record, I loved the other 3D game on the PS2.

Which one?

Castlevania: Lament of Innocence

The PS2 3D outings weren't bad at all, nothing groundbreaking, borrowed heavily from Devil May Cry.

SineSwiper wrote:Castlevania: Lament of Innocence

So you didn't play Curse of Darkness? Apparently, that one was pretty brutal

Eric, this one is closer to God of War then Devil May Cry but I think it's better for it. The extra strategy helps, too. And I haven't even unlocked the Dark magic yet. If you're on the fence with this one, give it at least a rental. It's a lot better than it appears to be

So I finally beat the game and I can say this: I was definitely underestimating it's awesomeness previously. I cannot stress enough how excellent this game is, as good as anything you've played this year. Yes, that means Red Dead Redemption, Bioshock 2, Call of Duty, or Halo. Much like Borderlands or Batman, this is the absolute come-out-of-nowhere game of the year candidate that no one should miss out on.

Once you get past the 10-level Chapter 2 (which is about where the tutorials end) the gameplay and the scope REALLY take off, as does the storyline. I know the word is very, very overused, but you can only really describe it as "epic", as much as any JRPG you've played complete with a big-time end-of-the-world scenario. It really is great where they go with the storyline and something that you really don't see coming until much later in the game. Couple that great ending with the wonderful voice acting of the narrator (Patrick Stewart) and Carlyle as Belmont and you get a pretty solid feeling of satisfaction of your time well spent, like a great ending to a movie.

The gameplay really comes into its own after Chapter 2 as well adding a huge element of strategy to the what initially appears to be a God of War-style gameplay. I was mentioning before that the block & dodge are really, really important. Later on, the level of combos and magic you get are absolutely vital to get past even the regular enemies, who can completely kick your ass if you try to button mash. It's not like other games where you buy combos and forget about them. Learning and using your combos makes you life much easier. The difficulty of the game even on normal mode is enough that if you just try to button mash you're in for a tough battle. Try it on another difficulty level and it's practically over before it starts.

And it's a freakin' LONG game. Now we do explore a bit trying to find all the upgrades but I was not expecting a 25 hour or so game to run-through. Sure, you can do it in about 20 or so, but that would be more of a run-through and probably skipping some cutscenes. This game is nearly as long as all three God of War games combined it's that huge. And that's before you even start talking about the trials (ie. in-level challenges), brotherhood arks (upgrades that you can only open up afterwards), and additional levels of difficulty that you can do to get 100%+ (I believe you can go to 110%) on each individual level. HUGE game, only MGS4 is as long of an action game that I can remember and that had 8+ hours of cutscenes in it (this one has around 1 or so).

They also do a wonderful job of making the battles come in a few waves throughout the level as opposed to a constant stream of enemies, particularly after the second chapter. This allows you to explore the absolutely gorgeous settings and complete your puzzles without being constantly hassled. Also makes navigation of the 3D environment a lot less annoying than it could be. Considering just how huge, varied, and just plain awesome a lot of the settings are, it's great that the game itself never, ever hinders your enjoyment of them. The camera and many, many pan-outs and pan-throughs of the levels give you such a feeling of awe and allow you to truly appreciate the scope and beauty of the game. Right up until the the last chapter we were constantly being treated to amazing environments.

The game isn't perfect, no. There are some minor issues with the camera early on where you can't see some of the off-screen enemies but that's mostly gone by the end of Chapter 2 or 3 as the camera placement seems to get smarter and the developers seem to design the levels better and nearly eliminate the issue. And it's not much of an issue as you know the enemies are there anyways. Part of it is actually you getting used to the camera too as your natural tendency is to try to move it. The camera can also be a bit of an issue in determining what to do next, particularly while climbing. You can sit there and say "what am I supposed to do?" while hanging off a ledge 'cause it isn't really clear. What you end up learning after a bit of time is it's because you're trying to figure it out before you get there, which is natural for most experienced gamers. All you have to do is keep going to the end of whatever ledge you're on and the path will reveal itself and after a while, there is no issue. There is also some trial and error with respect to the climbing mechanic, which is as important in this game as it is in Assassin's Creed, and some of the controls are a little anti-intuitive and until you get used to them, a little frustrating. They could have make it a little smoother and hopefully they will fix that for the future but it certainly is no game-killer. You can easily get by with little more than some occasionally mishaps, particularly after you get used to the idiosyncrasies of the controls.

As for the critics, I covered most of the issues with the camera they had in the paragraph above. I found that they were relatively minor and easily overcome. One of the other main complaints I read about is that the story really wasn't there other than sporadically. This is true early on where the narration of Stewart is all that really reveals what's going on, even internally to Gabriel, as the main character remains silent for a while. There's relatively few storyline cutscenes (lots of small - and skippable - ones showing the enemies getting ready to attack or the boss prepping itself throughout the game) until later on but the narration between levels constantly keeps you into the storyline and the internal thoughts, feelings, and changes going on with Gabriel. After the 3rd chapter there's a lot more storyline cutscenes. Coupled with expansion of the gameplay that occurs around the same time, I'm nearly convinced that most critics never got past Chapter 2. It takes about 4 or 5 hours to get past that chapter alone and I don't think most of them put that kind of time into the games before they review it. That's a shame 'cause they only really got to see a fraction of the game's all about.

I'm also convinced that many critics (and gamers) are still trying to shoehorn all Castlevania into Symphony of the Night gameplay and settings which is wrong. As great as Symphony was, it's not the end all and be all of Castlevania. Remember, there was about 7 or 8 games (not including handheld) that were released prior to Symphony so there's a lot more to Castlevania that that. What this game does to the Castlevania storyline will make Symphony seem severely out-dated storyline-wise and even gameplay-wise to a degree. Symphony is very much old-school and there's nothing wrong with that. This game stretches the boundaries of what all 3D action games can be. It's the very definition of a next-gen game. It's almost like going to back to what the original idea of Castlevania is and bring it up to current times with current technologies, gameplay mechanics, and other techniques to make it feel like it's on the cutting edge of action gameplay as opposed to being shackled by the games of the past. It has really injected life into a very stale and quickly dying series.

This is truly one of the best games of the year - maybe even one of the best of this generation - and more than worth whatever you pay for it. The fact that you can get it now for $30-40 new (less used) makes it an absolute steal. Don't miss out on it. If you already bought it at a reduced price and just never got around to it, put it further up your queue. Don't forget about it or you'll miss out. And if you played or are planning to play the demo to get an idea of what this game is, don't base any judgment of the full game on that putrid demo. You have no idea of the scope of the gameplay, story, or environments from it. Don't think about it, just get it, it's that damned good

I beat this when it first came out. I agree, very awesome game.

Oracle wrote:I beat this when it first came out. I agree, very awesome game.

So far I've gotten 2 other people to try it. One beat it and loved it the other got part way through the second chapter and had to put it aside for work reasons but is itchin' to get back to it. 2 more cuzs just bought it and will get to it soon.

Can't wait for the downloadable chapters to come. I'm sure they're going to be $10 each but I may go splits with a bud on them.

Sorry, TL;DR, and don't want to read until I start playing it. Yeah, I really need to try it out. I think I've started to get bored of F:NV. (Spent about 60 hours, which is hilarious considering I've never even walked into New Vegas.)

SineSwiper wrote:Sorry, TL;DR, and don't want to read until I start playing it. Yeah, I really need to try it out. I think I've started to get bored of F:NV. (Spent about 60 hours, which is hilarious considering I've never even walked into New Vegas.)

Help out the guy who only writes in complete sentences: what the hell does "Sorry, TL; DR" stand for?

Too Long; Didn't Read.

I remember seeing a quote saying people use the abberviation for the Y2K problem is why we have the problem in the first place.

SineSwiper wrote:Sorry, TL;DR, and don't want to read until I start playing it. Yeah, I really need to try it out. I think I've started to get bored of F:NV. (Spent about 60 hours, which is hilarious considering I've never even walked into New Vegas.)

When i got bored i just decided to beat it, which you can probably easily do anywhere from lvl 20+. Still, with no vegas missions done yet, you have a ways to go. Get your ass in there and choose a side! Have you been to Freeside at least?

Bovine has started playing Castlevania. A rental shop closed down and sold off all of their stock super cheap and I picked this game up.

After playing bayonetta, all of these character action games have seemed a bit underwhelming, but I will give this game a fair shake.

bovine wrote:Bovine has started playing Castlevania. A rental shop closed down and sold off all of their stock super cheap and I picked this game up.

After playing bayonetta, all of these character action games have seemed a bit underwhelming, but I will give this game a fair shake.

I just finished Chapter 4 in Devil May Cry-onetta last night. It's a decent game that's slightly more than a button masher with the forced dodging and witch time but it's still far more style over substance. Still enjoyable, though, and a lot better than its inspiration

Tell me what you think of Castlevania after you finish Chapter 4, I'd be interested in hearing that

Is this game hard, or do I just suck at videogames now? I can't get the timing right on that stupid concentric circle thing ever. I have died about ten times on a boss because of this.

Kupek wrote:Is this game hard, or do I just suck at videogames now? I can't get the timing right on that stupid concentric circle thing ever. I have died about ten times on a boss because of this.

Your last few years of video game neglect has probably severely diminished your skills. It COULD also be the fact that you're probably trying to hit it when the two circles are EXACTLY together as opposed to waiting 'til the outside, shrinking circle is inside the smaller, static inner circle and are likely hitting it a shade early like nearly everyone else who's played it does initially since you have no direction whatsover on what you're supposed to do. But I'm sticking with my original diagnosis :-)

Bovine, you ever beat Castlevania?

The game is slow. I played it for a few hours, and was kinda bored, and tired of getting lost in the swamp area.

I did not ever beat castlevania. I got to disc 2 and then stopped somewhere is vampire land. It is a decent enough game, but there are some DEFINITE pacing issues.

Now Deadspace 2, there is a game.

SineSwiper wrote:The game is slow. I played it for a few hours, and was kinda bored, and tired of getting lost in the swamp area.

Getting lost? How? There are a few levels which are longer but they're pretty linear.

Chapter 2 is still mostly a tutorial. The game really starts moving after that, both storyline and gameplay. It's neat through that chapter but the game keeps getting better and better with each chapter. It really is an excellent game overall.

bovine wrote:I did not ever beat castlevania. I got to disc 2 and then stopped somewhere is vampire land. It is a decent enough game, but there are some DEFINITE pacing issues.

Now Deadspace 2, there is a game.

Disc 2? Oh, you must mean the Xbox version.

So you got to about Chapter 7? If you're not totally into it by then, I can see why you stopped playing it. And in the beginning it is a bit slow-moving, particularly through Chapter 2, but I thought it really picked up after that. Particularly the last 3 or 4 chapters, they were at a break-neck pace.

I just finished Dead Space 1 a couple of weeks ago. Will hopefully start up #2 once my cuz gets some free time.

Zeus wrote:I just finished Dead Space 1 a couple of weeks ago. Will hopefully start up #2 once my cuz gets some free time.

Werf yo thyme.

bovine wrote:

Zeus wrote:I just finished Dead Space 1 a couple of weeks ago. Will hopefully start up #2 once my cuz gets some free time.

Werf yo thyme.

I don't doubt that. It's high on the playlist

Jesus Christ. I went to a level that had NO enemies in it. I just wondered around and collected the glyphs for a stupid puzzle in Pan's Temple. Then I sat through a 20-minute cut scene. Then another stupid puzzle. And that was the level.

The next level was just going into this ice lake and fighting this hyper annoying boss. I want strategy and skill, not some stupid repetitive routine. I have to climb on this Ice Titan for an hour to kill him and if he shakes me off, I have to do the whole damn thing over again.

And after I'm done, I have another 20-minute cut scene!

This isn't a God of War or DMC clone. Those games had a shitton more enemies.

SineSwiper wrote:Jesus Christ. I went to a level that had NO enemies in it. I just wondered around and collected the glyphs for a stupid puzzle in Pan's Temple. Then I sat through a 20-minute cut scene. Then another stupid puzzle. And that was the level.

The next level was just going into this ice lake and fighting this hyper annoying boss. I want strategy and skill, not some stupid repetitive routine. I have to climb on this Ice Titan for an hour to kill him and if he shakes me off, I have to do the whole damn thing over again.

And after I'm done, I have another 20-minute cut scene!

This isn't a God of War or DMC clone. Those games had a shitton more enemies.

This game is the exact opposite direction that bayonetta went in the character-action genre. Your complaints of this game mean that you should be playing bayonetta and not this game.

justsayin

Already played and beat Bayonetta. Not a bad game, but by far the most over-the-top game I've ever played.

I've gotten a few levels past where Sine is (where the spiders first appear), and I'm coming to similar conclusions. When fighting groups of enemies, I feel that I often get stuck in animations and subsequently die because of it. I also feel like there's a slight delay between button presses and actions, which makes fighting enemies less fun.

In the platforming parts, I don't feel like I have any agency. There's a shiny thing, I press R2 to use my whip like a grappling hook, and I reel myself in. Then I move around until I reach an edge, then push myself over. Then jump to another platform. I could have just described Castlevania 4, so the difference is subtle, but in CV4 I felt like I was in control. In Lords of Shadow, I feel like I'm following a script, pushing the right buttons at the right time.

I think I'm going to return Lords of Shadow and use the credit to buy Mass Effect 2.

Sine & Kupek: What version of the game are you playing? I ask because of the control issues you've brought up (delays in button presses, etc). Just wondering if it is due to the PS3 version, as I didn't really experience any of that in the Xbox.

Kupek wrote:I've gotten a few levels past where Sine is (where the spiders first appear), and I'm coming to similar conclusions. When fighting groups of enemies, I feel that I often get stuck in animations and subsequently die because of it. I also feel like there's a slight delay between button presses and actions, which makes fighting enemies less fun.

In the platforming parts, I don't feel like I have any agency. There's a shiny thing, I press R2 to use my whip like a grappling hook, and I reel myself in. Then I move around until I reach an edge, then push myself over. Then jump to another platform. I could have just described Castlevania 4, so the difference is subtle, but in CV4 I felt like I was in control. In Lords of Shadow, I feel like I'm following a script, pushing the right buttons at the right time.

I think I'm going to return Lords of Shadow and use the credit to buy Mass Effect 2.

Kup, you never got past the second Chapter. That's not indicative of the rest of the game, there's tons more linear platforming in that than the rest. Get to Chapter #4. If you don't like it by then, return it

Oracle wrote:Sine & Kupek: What version of the game are you playing? I ask because of the control issues you've brought up (delays in button presses, etc). Just wondering if it is due to the PS3 version, as I didn't really experience any of that in the Xbox.

Not in my PS3 copy at least

Zeus wrote:Kup, you never got past the second Chapter. That's not indicative of the rest of the game, there's tons more linear platforming in that than the rest. Get to Chapter #4. If you don't like it by then, return it

If it takes 6 hours to "get to the good part", it's not worth playing.

Oh, and Mass Effect 2 is an INFINITELY better game. Times infinity.

I don't want to keep playing. Every time I have an opportunity I do something else. I have such little gaming time, I don't think I'm willing to be "fair."

Kupek wrote:I don't want to keep playing. Every time I have an opportunity I do something else. I have such little gaming time, I don't think I'm willing to be "fair."

That's usually when I give up a game, too. Considering I'd choose gaming over almost anything, if a game has become a chore such that I choose other things over it, then it's not worth playing.

Kupek wrote:I don't want to keep playing. Every time I have an opportunity I do something else. I have such little gaming time, I don't think I'm willing to be "fair."

And that's fine. Your time, your decision. I just wanted to reiterate that you're about to give up on the game before it really, really takes off and becomes the sleeper hit of 2010

Zeus wrote:

Kupek wrote:I don't want to keep playing. Every time I have an opportunity I do something else. I have such little gaming time, I don't think I'm willing to be "fair."

And that's fine. Your time, your decision. I just wanted to reiterate that you're about to give up on the game before it really, really takes off and becomes the sleeper hit of 2010

It's 2011. That time has past. And sleeper is right. This game is truly a snoozer.

I have five years of back catalog to choose from. I don't see the point in spending time on marginal games.