The Shrine

I know basically all of us are going to be playing this at some point but I was wondering if anyone else was going to get it for the PC. I haven't heard any word on matchmaking but it would be nice to play the coop with someone else. My screen name on Origin is shrinweck if you want to add me. Wasn't able to convince Tessian to buy it on the PC, even after mentioning the save repositories heh

Sorry, PS3. That's the console I am playing part 2 on.

Tree sixty.

I never finished ME2. I liked the first one, but ME2 got too... big budget on me. I think they went for mass appeal and i lost interest. Too bad, I would have gotten the PC version.

You are a silly person.

Not really.. Bioware has been doing that with their second iterations for the last couple years where it's MUCH MUCH MUCH dumber than the original games. It's fucking annoying, but they're still great games. Hopefully they learned from the mistakes of ME2 and DA2 and hit somewhere in the middle ground between dumb ass shit where they've clearly cut corners (DA2 being more guilty of this) and the smart quality of the originals.

For me, the only good thing ME2 is guilty of axing from ME1 is the character stats and abilities. These were simplified greatly in ME2, though after some time with the game, my initial disappointment went away. Nearly everything about ME2 is better, with the combat being the standout. I loved ME1, but in retrospect the combat was pretty clunky and you could see the dice rolls going on behind the scene.

I'm looking forward to revisiting ME1 again someday, but I'm absolutely NOT looking forward to the absolutely ridiculous amounts of weapons and gear you find in the dozens of crates on every planet. It was very much an RPG in that sense of sorting through the garbage for incrementally better items while stockpiling shit to sell later for millions of credits you'll never spend anyway.

Aside from all that, I am worried about the franchise in one sense. Since EA purchased Bioware, they've really shown that they are willing to market the shit out of this IP across multiple scenes. I can't help but get the feeling that either a)EA will convince Bioware to keep making ME games or b)Bioware will move down and EA will have someone else continue the franchise (like with MS/343 and Halo). I would much rather see ME3 be the conclusion than to see the franchise run into the ground with sequels of diminishing evolutionary returns.

I'm sorry but having two types of a weapon does not make for a satisfying replacement for inventory management, which wasn't annoying by the time it made its way to the PC. Combat is mostly improved but having two fucking skills to select makes it overly simple compared to before. It makes it so certain companions are monumentally more useful to bring along. Basically they have warp and/or overload (god I love you Miranda, as a companion, not in that way, sorry baby doll) or they aren't worth bringing. That's not the way it should be done.

In any case it looks like the same style of inventory management from ME2 is being used in ME3, but at least the weapons look more satisfying.

Bioware has stated that they were already going to keep going with the Mass Effect universe, but focusing on another person/aspect of it. ME3 has already been announced as the conclusion of Shepard's story.

Also getting rid of the Mako (which I think was a smart move) also unfortunately neutered the exploration aspect of the game. How many side quests did you do? These weren't exactly super great in ME1 either but at least there was some dialog with Shepard. Not just running through the same exact side quest every time (kill your way to this and then use it and sometimes defend it from enemy waves). There are a couple stand outs (it is still Bioware after all), but the key word there is a couple in a sea of clones.

I feel like ME2 was a smart step forward in general but they need to bring back some of the choice from the original. Oh and let me run in a direction that isn't just 'forward' (already shown to be in ME3). At least the level design didn't go to shit a la DA2. I would rather a step back towards ME 1 and DA:O then mindless action. Choice is key. If they want to fucking make Gears of War then stop making them in the Mass Effect and Dragon Age worlds.

They said that they attempted to take out everything that wasn't constantly moving the game forward. The biggest example of this I've seen is that mining is no longer in the game. At the very least, this is a victory we can all agree upon.

I find a lot of the structure between deus ex:whateverthelastonewascalled and ME2 to be very similar. You are given hub zones taht you roll around in, collecting quests and buying chit and whatnot.... and then you get sent out of those hubs for the real meaty missions. One of these games I found very fun to play.

ME2 had the advantage of a backstory that you felt a large amount of agency in creating (if you played the first one), and the combat was really fun, you had great companion characters, and you had a dope whip. The player finds agency in the story by furthering the story and interacting with your companions. There were a small amount of interesting moments to be found in exploration in the first one, but I think it was a good idea to streamline the game a bit more. I would rather be tossed into a more structured storytelling experience with fun and exciting gameplay than them try to shoehorn elements into the game poorly (like the mako). I find games that invigorate me with exploration are games that I really feel like they have very carefully crafted the environment (dark souls) to create a very specific experience, instead of creating a sandbox that introduces more random elements, but everything feels or looks the same (elder scrolls series).

I like that they are honing elements that are good, and creating a better storytelling environment, while also making the time in between the story very interesting. The JRPG system of maximum loot and maximum grinding is not something I look back with fondness. I like my mass effect and I like my dark souls, but I don't really want them to learn from eachother. I think they are both growing in different directions and creating different experiences, and I totally dig that.

Hey bovine I hear you like exploration in games like Dark Souls, have you beaten Demon Souls yet? :D

Wouldn't you know it, I have!!!! Yet to beat dark souls, though. Hey, are you guys aware that I beat demons souls?

Shrinweck wrote:Hey bovine I hear you like exploration in games like Dark Souls, have you beaten Demon Souls yet?

Leave the man alone, he has serious catching up to do in Pinball FX 2. His gaming is spoken for over the next few months :-)

bovine wrote:Wouldn't you know it, I have!!!! Yet to beat dark souls, though. Hey, are you guys aware that I beat demons souls?

You still haven't beaten Dark Souls? Maybe I'll start New Game++ (I'm sitting at the last boss in my second play through).

Or, maybe I should start it from scratch and make a character that actually has focussed stats (i.e. cookie-cutter min/max style like MMOs)... PvP is so cruel in that game.

(yes I realized I spoke of this when we last saw each other... but I like reminding!)

bovine wrote:I think they are both growing in different directions and creating different experiences, and I totally dig that.

ME is growing in a direction that increasingly makes me want to pirate and not buy.

Zeus wrote:

Shrinweck wrote:Hey bovine I hear you like exploration in games like Dark Souls, have you beaten Demon Souls yet? :D

Leave the man alone, he has serious catching up to do in Pinball FX 2. His gaming is spoken for over the next few months :-)

My post was a reference to bovine posting two posts in a row about beating Demon Souls some months ago. It still makes me giggle to myself.

Also ME3 character development has been described as having an emphasis on the skill evolution system from ME2 where you got to morph the skill to better fit certain situations. This sounds interesting to me and at the very least sounds like they aren't making it more stupid than ME2, which at least isn't another step back.

I just played through the ME3 demo and basically all my complaints about 2 were fixed.

Movement is smart and has more in common with free running from, say, Assassin's Creed, then the rigid nonsense in ME2. This is good because hopping from cover to cover is much more important mid-combat. Speaking of combat, it's not as "God-mode"-ish as ME2, since your shields still heal but your health doesn't really heal unless you use unity (the healing power.. I think there's some other ways but this is probably the major one). Unfortunately the weapons in the demo are the exact same as ME2, but I'm guessing there are some new ones other than the pre-order goodies. The combat is more intense than ME2 but it doesn't take very long to adjust.

Even dialog seems more fluid. I'm not really sure why on this but I've played ~20 hours of ME2 in the past couple weeks so this isn't an out-of-the-blue guess.

There are a few more powers at your disposal than ME2, so my complaint of only having a couple at your disposal is nullified.

It looks like the bypass mini-game is out, and instead you have to stay motionless for a few seconds while Shepard magically cracks the door code. I like this change, as bypassing really harmed the flow of ME2 and never felt like an achievement when completed successfully.

No one else is buying it for the PC so I won't go into details for menu improvements, but they didn't cut as many low-budget port corners as ME2.

Bioware does it again. Can't wait. Still haven't tried multiplayer.

It goes against reason but multiplayer is actually superb. What the fuck?

Your impressions please me greatly. Especially worried, I was, about the multiplayer.

Your impressions further solidify why I will not be buying it. I dont need another AC with the ME world painted on top to only to enjoy the story, which is the best part of ME. However, the story isnt good enough to play a blatant mass appeal game to see how ti goes.

ME has effectively made full transition from the unique RPG that was ME1 to mass appeal sell-ectability (play on words for the political term electability).

I think you've missed the point of my post, where it's a middle ground between ME2 and ME1 which were admittedly clunky to control and now that isn't an issue. The comparison wasn't about the game play being at all like AssCreed, but the control over your character being comparably flexible.

If you get the demo and enjoy the multiplayer, your question (and formerly mine) will be whether experience, credits, items, and characters carry over to the final product. They don't :(

I've had to delete the demo to stop myself from wasting more time in the demo's multiplayer haha

Apparently you can reach the best possible outcome in single player without ever touching the multiplayer, in case someone ends up disagreeing with me about it. According to the demo, multiplayer consists of four players fighting off eleven waves of enemies. Eight of the waves are merely about killing all opposition. Two of them have objectives along the lines of getting to an objective and activating it for several seconds while your squad defends you, defending an objective while limited to a small area of movement, and killing randomly selected 'opportune targets' with a time limit. The last wave is defending an extraction point for two minutes while your shuttle arrives to pick you up.

You're awarded credits and experience based on objectives completed and kills/assists. Credits are spent on bundles that unlock one-use items, temporary/permanent weapon mods, weapons, and different characters. Characters are who you bring to the match, with the default unlocked being human males or females, and each class having another two races with different abilities than the human default. Experience carries over the entire class, as opposed to whichever character you brought to the specific match (i.e. you bring your human to the fight but your Drell of the same class gets the same experience reward) and of course lets you unlock abilities. There's also an overarching level to your account, which I assume is just there so people know you're experienced. Maybe it'll have an actual use in the final product?

It looks like there are three difficulties and that everyone basically has to start the easiest in order to start getting geared/leveled up for the harder ones. Cerberus is the only enemy available in the multiplayer demo, but it sounds like Geth are going to available to fight, as well. A loading screen tip mentions "brutes" which sounds pretty Krogan-ish to me, but who knows? Reaper-indoctrinated enemies are probably a good bet, too. Cerberus is pretty meat and potatoes, with assault rifle grunts, assault rifle grunts with shields, snipers, melee specialists, and a giant robot or three. Oh and dudes with impenetrable riot shields. You either have to find a way to flank them or shoot through the eye rectangle in the shield. I looove sniping through that rectangle haha.

Weapons aren't restricted to class but have weight, which reduces the recharge time of your powers. Each class has a skill they can train to increase their weight allowance, or that skill can be ignored in favor of more weapon damage or some such benefit. I don't think any class has a higher innate weight allowance. I found bringing something automatic (assault rifle or SMG) and something slow-firing (shotgun, sniper rifle) was for the best. Any more than two guns isn't feasible. Never found any rifle mods but I found two SMG mods that effectively let me shoot 100+ bullets before reloading what was formerly a 40 rounds clip.

Day One DLC includes a Prothean party member. Interesting.

I'm buying it for PC but will play through it on the 360 for savefile posterity.

Even though I beat the original Mass Effect something like four or five times I still make heavy use of http://masseffectsaves.com/ and I will probably be using http://www.masseffect2saves.com/ just about as often. I've decided on two completionist saves of my own and I'm most of the way through the second (still need to explore most of the galaxy and do a few loyalty missions and then it's just the IFF, legion's stuff, and through the relay and I'm done).

Tessian played through the demo this weekend and said he enjoyed it but thought the multiplayer would get repetitive. There's a chance for this, but I'm thinking there's a ton of functionality that was left out of the demo.

FUCK what did I just beat? All I know is clearly I need to beat it again. And again. And probably again.

So Shrinweck likes this game and I think it's a piece of shit that bares no resemblance to ME1. Fair enough.

But if you thought ME2 was dumbed down, then ME3 will make you cry. But hey, it's got Multiplayer now.

kali o. wrote:So Shrinweck likes this game and I think it's a piece of shit that bares no resemblance to ME1. Fair enough.

But if you thought ME2 was dumbed down, then ME3 will make you cry. But hey, it's got Multiplayer now.

Sold. On not buying. Why do I always have to be of the same opinion of the elusive lovable prick?

What? ME3 is in no way dumber than ME2. Have you even played ME1 in the last year? It really isn't all that, as much as ME2 was an atrocity.

kali o. wrote:So Shrinweck likes this game and I think it's a piece of shit that bares no resemblance to ME1. Fair enough.

But if you thought ME2 was dumbed down, then ME3 will make you cry. But hey, it's got Multiplayer now.

I think I'm starting to align with Kali's taste in games. Gunna pass on this one for now :p

Personally I think a lot of you confused "Dumbed down" for "Refined and better".

Mass Effect 1's systems sucked, the action and skills only got better in ME2 & 3. *shrug*

Edit: My reaction to the ending.

Okay I've beat it a second time and took the opportunity to load and see all the 'good' endings including Shepard . I'm not as satisfied as I was the first time I beat it and thought there would be some more.. conclusive stuff if I didn't play as a renegade fucktard. It's a little fucked if they're actually expecting us to give them more money for a different ending. A producer posting something along the lines of "You have no idea what we have planned..." kind of hints at this.

I mean, I'll probably do it, and this is still probably going to be the best game released all year for me. I think I'm still going to beat it a couple more times. Giving female Shepard a go and I'm already about 2/3s through the game with her. It's difficult though. I see why people like her more but I feel like a Shepard imposter sometimes during the play through. There's definitely more to Jennifer Hale's voicing but there's just some kind of charm to male Shepard's mostly stoic voicing.

I do want to go back in time and yell "What the fuck are you thinking?" at the writers table. Even after reading some fan contemplation of the endings where

Personally, it expect a lot more than 10 dollar DLC to let a company proverbially fuck me in the ass...but you feel free to whore yourself out at any price. And as far as the indoctrination thing goes, it's easy for fans to play connect the dots when the writing is sloppy and full of plot holes. They did it with the Matrix too. Whatever, let them cling to hope...maybe BW will cave (though a simple look at the actual "content" quality of the finale shows it was all simply rushed...but they found time enough to finish day 1 ten dollar DLC...).

As for Eric...well look, Dialog has been dumbed down, exploration has been removed, side quests have been reduced to scans, limited to 5 types of mods, what's left "RPG" wise? Even the assets didn't matter (and you can't get the 20 second secret ending without enjoying the online FPS action). If by refined, you mean combat...and by extension, Mass Effect's morph into a full blown story/FPS...fine, you have a point. The game is refined...it can appeal to the CoD audience now. Hell, you even have those 3 settings prior to starting the game (Action, Traditional, Story), which presets between hard+auto level+convo cutscenes to super-easy+standard dialog choice. Awesome. Lol.

And for the record, I don't totally care if ME3 is a FPS...they aren't usually my game of choice, but it was a good ride and I wanted to know how it played out. Except the end. Which is, being honest, probably the worst ending ever. From there, how are you supposed to look back on not only ME3, but the entire trilogy and the direction they took the story/gameplay, with any degree of fondness? It's a shit game and Bioware has been pissing on their fans for years. It's amazing what people will forgive them for (I mean...the reused assets in DA2 were completely unforgivable and lazy, SWtOR is floundering with ghost town servers and no mergers, etc).

Fuck Bioware.

I'd hardly equate shelling out for DLC to fucking for cash on the side of the road for crack money. And what plot holes? If anything they had to piece it together through carefully paying attention and actually reading the provided codex entries. Comparing this to the fiasco of the Matrix is just silly. I found the actual dialog in the finale very satisfying.

Dialog has always been this way in Mass Effect, what are you talking about? I've always complained about Bioware's dialog systems not telling me exactly what the character is about to say, but this wasn't any dumber than the last two iterations.

Weapon mods weren't even in the last game (more choice is the exact opposite of dumbed down). RPG-wise? What's this even a reference to? Inventory management? In this case they also did a superior job than ME2 because there was simply more (three assault rifles at the launch of ME2 in the core game? really?) Side quests were all over the place (not even referring to war assets, I'm talking about the optional missions and N7 missions), and while certainly there were no exploration side quests, taking those shitty 3-5 minute quests from ME2 (where your companions suddenly became completely mute) out of the game game and not having to put up with the fucking Mako was a step in the correct direction. And Shepard literally exploring and doing side quests that have nothing to do with the Reaper invasion would be like Frodo getting sidetracked at Mordor to pick some berries with seeds for Sam to plant when they got back to the Shire.

Also more choices for how to play the game is the exact opposite of dumbed down, even if some of those options literally dumb the game down.

Take issue with the ending all you want. I wouldn't necessarily call it weak but the worst ending ever? You're complaining for the sake of complaining here. I don't know why you keep calling it an FPS. I know what you're saying but you are literally playing from a third person perspective. There's another term for this isn't there? I said earlier in the thread that if Bioware wanted to make Gears of War they should keep it out of Mass Effect. For the most part they did. The last three games they've released have been flawed but basically even the best RPGs ever released have all been flawed. It's a tough genre. This may not have been as satisfying as I was hoping but in that games are supposed to eat up time, even DA2 claimed well over 100 hours of my time. They're flawed and DA2 had some inexcusable shortcuts, but they're still great games.

If you really thought this was a shit game then by definition you wouldn't have had the motivation to finish it. Considering Mass Effect 2 didn't even feel like it was part of the same series as the original, I think they did a decent job of tying it all together in the third iteration.

You can get the secret ending without ever touching multiplayer. I carried over a 100% ME1->ME2 save and completed 100% of the ME3 single player content and ended up with a 6000~ EMS. The multiplayer is actually pretty fun though, if you're playing with people you know. And I don't recall any portion ever being an FPS, heh.

With that said, I didn't mind the ending.

Shrinweck wrote:I'd hardly equate shelling out for DLC to fucking for cash on the side of the road for crack money.

I would equate paying a game developer for the full ending of a retail game purchased in good faith "getting ass raped". I don't see how anyone could not, to be honest. That is sleazier than Ubisoft's DLC milking of consumers...which is impressive in a sad way.

And what plot holes?

If anything they had to piece it together through carefully paying attention and actually reading the provided codex entries. Comparing this to the fiasco of the Matrix is just silly. I found the actual dialog in the finale very satisfying.

Well, I am glad that you found the absurd contrivance that is the ME ending to be full of satisfying dialog. I did not. It did not make sense in the context of the trilogy or Shepard's established personality or existing canon. The Matrix was a perfectly constructed masterpiece in comparison.

Dialog, mods, blah blah

Hey man, if you think the game has gotten more complex (or hell, stayed the same) since ME1, more power to you. Pass it to your left please. I don't even want to address this, or the issue of ammo/etc, because frankly, I am still absolutely floored by the previous comment.

Also more choices for how to play the game is the exact opposite of dumbed down, even if some of those options literally dumb the game down.

I choose to believe you are just messing with me to keep my brain from imploding.

Take issue with the ending all you want. I wouldn't necessarily call it weak but the worst ending ever? You're complaining for the sake of complaining here. I don't know why you keep calling it an FPS. I know what you're saying but you are literally playing from a third person perspective. There's another term for this isn't there? I said earlier in the thread that if Bioware wanted to make Gears of War they should keep it out of Mass Effect. For the most part they did.

If you want to call it a Gears of War clone or a cover shooter, be my guest. No sense being argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative though. I find it hilarious you are trying to sell the idea Bioware "kept gears of war" gameplay out of ME when it has the same cover system, me-too in close melee, directional arrows, objective markers and online play.

The last three games they've released have been flawed but basically even the best RPGs ever released have all been flawed. It's a tough genre. This may not have been as satisfying as I was hoping but in that games are supposed to eat up time, even DA2 claimed well over 100 hours of my time. They're flawed and DA2 had some inexcusable shortcuts, but they're still great games.

You and I have vastly different interpretations of what is great.

If you really thought this was a shit game then by definition you wouldn't have had the motivation to finish it. Considering Mass Effect 2 didn't even feel like it was part of the same series as the original, I think they did a decent job of tying it all together in the third iteration.

Don't tell me what I think. And I've played plenty of shit games just to get to the end - if you want to argue I am a masochist or just a dedicated time waster, be my guest. Maybe. Doesn't make ME3 any less shitty.

Alec wrote:You can get the secret ending without ever touching multiplayer. I carried over a 100% ME1->ME2 save and completed 100% of the ME3 single player content and ended up with a 6000~ EMS. The multiplayer is actually pretty fun though, if you're playing with people you know. And I don't recall any portion ever being an FPS, heh.

With that said, I didn't mind the ending.

Again with the FPS =/= Shooter semantics. It was 6am when I wrote that, I haven't slept, and I used FPS offhand because I brought up CoD. also, yeah, if you took the time to carry over your saves, probably (I wasn't). If you are just working off ME3, there is not enough to get the ending as far as I know. So you need to do the multiplayer. It's worth noting that all your effort to boost assets has no tangible outcome besides a 10-20 second teaser at the tail end of one of the endings. It's not like you actually see the payoff in the context of the actual final battle. Another major letdown.

As for the ending, you seem to be in the minority, but it's all subjective. I'd love to hear you elaborate on what exactly you liked about it...I can't think of a single redeeming quality. I wasn't even all that fond of Mass Effect, I can't imagine how actual fans are swallowing the current ending.

PS - I've edited this 5+ times and still find spelling/grammar errors. So cut me slack on my writing for this post.

I don't love the ending, but I don't hate it, either. I'm just not the type of person to let how something ends (whether it be books, movies or games) ruin the fun I had throughout the experience.

To put that into context with my personality, I also believe that anyone who liked Duke Nukem 3D but didn't like Duke Nukem Forever is part of the unreasonable internet hate machine.

All of your plot holes were You also still haven't described how more choice could possibly be construed as 'dumbed down' from ME2. Would you just realize that most of what I'm taking offense with in your posts is your claim that ME3 is dumber than ME2 and just justify that to me?

You're taking this game from a skin deep perspective. There's a lot of conjecture involved in the indoctrination reasoning, but what isn't conjecture is that the secret ending couldn't take place if everything that happened in At the very least the fact that Bioware is remaining quiet on plot points but making reference to there being more to the story than people realize supports this. I'm not going to support them going to such lengths to be complete and utter fucktards about remaining mum on an ending to a game we've all paid full price for, but there's more at work here.

Oh also Bioware needs to fuck off with unskippable dialog and cinematics. An insanity difficulty run makes a bit more of it skippable, but not enough.

Ok, I am super drowsy, in the office and operating on no sleep...but here is my reply to the very, very stupid indoctrination theory (do not read the following unless you have actually finished ME3 and/or watched the endings):
That's just as far as I will go with my counter points in my current state. But these are readily available facts that make acceptance of the above downright silly. While I get the need for fans to make the very shitty ending something grander -- it's clear that it is nonsense. Fans did the same shit with the Matrix. And Squall in FF8. And hell, even Fable. Plot holes and a disappointing product are a set up for delusion and fanfics.

Now lets apply Occam's razor and approach your *points* from a "EA set a deadline and BW had to rush to meet it" (some overlap with the above):
Throughout Me3 though, we are provided with several silly, loosely supported jumps in logic that fundementally hurt the story...
...but we are willing to overlook it because it might get explained more as the game goes on, however unlikely. Of course that never happens. But it does show Bioware is fully capable of stupidity in their stories (especially if they deviate from their tried and true formula). Unless you buy the indoctrination theory though, right? Then Bioware gets a pass because they might make it not stupid in the next DLC...

You know, I am not even saying Bioware won't make a DLC changing the ending. God knows there is a lot of pressure out there right now. They might even copy the stupid fan bred idea of Indoctrination and claim it was the plan all along *coughbullshitcough*. I don't even want you to stop believing the ending was a mislead as it clearly gives you comfort. But no matter what you believe, Bioware sold a game without a real, worthy and complete ending. It is admittedly bad as it exists no matter what you think. How the hell are you going to recommend it to other people or have the stones to call it "great" on that basis alone?

If you were just apathetic like Alec, I could get it.

I just want to add this (for some reason I am incapable of finding the edit button atm, lol):

Here is a quote from Hudson, pre-release:

"It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C"

So what is this? A social experiment? Bioware's personal punk'd at the expense of the franchise? For those that didn't play ME3, that is exactly what was provided. A literal A,B or C choice -- pick your poison. Or maybe it's more fair to call it Red, Blue or Orange -- because the only difference in the endings really is the colour. I'm not kidding.

I would recommend Mass Effect 3 to someone because it was fun and because it forwards the stories of the characters.

It probably would've been better if they called it "Mass Effect: Brotherhood" or "Mass Effect: Revelations" because it's certainly not going to be the last game in the series.

Alec wrote:It probably would've been better if they called it "Mass Effect: Brotherhood" or "Mass Effect: Revelations" because it's certainly not going to be the last game in the series.

Well Revelations would have worked great, since it was a sloppy rip off of the Matrix. Hell, they already got an Anderson in there too! TIM gets to be the merovingian...geeze, it practically fits like a glove :p

New "canned ending" tweets from original writer. Interesting.

There was no quickness to Shepard becoming

Alec wrote:New "canned ending" tweets from original writer. Interesting.

Spoiler: show

"The Reapers' goal was to find a way to stop the spread of Dark Energy which would eventually consume everything. That's why there was so much foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME," Karpyshyn wrote.

"The Reapers as a whole were 'nations' of people who had fused together in the most horrific way possible to help find a way to stop the spread of the Dark Energy. The real reason for the Human Reaper was supposed to be the Reapers saving throw because they had run out of time. Humanity in Mass Effect is supposedly unique because of its genetic diversity and represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's spread.

"The original final choice was going to be 'Kill the Reapers and put your faith in the races of the galaxy in finding another way to stop the spread with what little time is left' or 'Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means.'

Ya, that's Drew's Dark Energy plot line, which basically was shelved for ME3 after he left Bioware mid ME2 development. At least his ideas make sense. Not sure if it needs spoiler tags, since it never happened, really.

Shrinweck wrote:There was no quickness to Shepard becoming

Spoiler: show

indoctrinated. He's constantly around reaper tech throughout the series, including the Arrival DLC where Harbinger basically point blank blasts him out of consciousness and has several hours to fuck with him unconscious. That Bioware post sounds more right to what I was thinking the first time I beat it before I read any speculation. At least the destruction of Reaper ending rings true to restarting the cycle and hoping it doesn't repeat itself, while the other endings kind of depend on giving part of yourself up.

The burned armor idea is something I'm not getting since in either scenario his armor is burned off by the reaper. As it pertains to being burned off in what could be a dream, it isn't the biggest leap of faith that Shepard's last memory being something as traumatic as being blasted by a reaper, that his mind would compensate. Even if it isn't a dream and that theory is completely washed out, Shepard's reality could still be altered when the crucible has fired up and the reapers could be fooling him into becoming one with them somehow or another.

I could see him making it through the conduit back to Earth in this case.

Cut content is just that. Cut. It isn't canon and has no relation to the story. Better to have voice actors record a ton of variations and differences in the studio the first time then not have it and having to pay them to do it if changes are made.

Also there is in fact a change in Shepard when you pick the other two endings. His body becomes husk-like and melts away in both endings. Something that doesn't happen in the third. If anything, his body looks a lot like Saren's in Husk form.

Are you just replying or have you actually explored the cut content? The extra audio, for example, (which is actually quite good) clearly grounds the plot line in reality -- as does the November leaked script.

Still, I'd like to hear you respond more to my non-spoiler points -- as they are solid facts no matter what you chose to believe. And a spoiler response to my stargazer point would be pretty interesting.

Kali I'd love you if you actually posted this cut content, audio, and November leaked script darnit.

Eric wrote:Kali I'd love you if you actually posted this cut content, audio, and November leaked script darnit.

Never used google before? lol

I'll give you a taste:

Leaked Nov demo script:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ctb61lb1bejggz2

Edit: I toasted the audio part because it was the wrong file (or the right file and I am misremembering). Sleepy or lazy googling, sry.

You gave me shit for having to explore the forums to read speculation on the endings in order to go my route but you're stuck on me going through cut content?

Sorry, no thanks. I'm not in the mood to look for/through that stuff. And cut content is cut content, not canonical fact. Stargazer stuff is intentionally vague and I can't really speak on that as it's entirely speculative.

And what about Shepard changing They scrapped some stuff and left certain things out. I'm just not understanding why you think cut content should be treated as factual. It's like watching a DVD extra alternative ending and calling that the factual ending. A leaked script is meaningless when they, you know, change the script in the final product. I saw the plans for TIM in the art book as the

kali o. wrote:

Eric wrote:Kali I'd love you if you actually posted this cut content, audio, and November leaked script darnit.

Never used google before? lol

I'll give you a taste:

Leaked Nov demo script:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ctb61lb1bejggz2

Edit: I toasted the audio part because it was the wrong file (or the right file and I am misremembering). Sleepy or lazy googling, sry.

I'm against the use of google when I have good friends I can lazily mooch off of for information. :^)

Shrinweck wrote:You gave me shit for having to explore the forums to read speculation on the endings in order to go my route but you're stuck on me going through cut content?

Sorry, no thanks. I'm not in the mood to look for/through that stuff. And cut content is cut content, not canonical fact. Stargazer stuff is intentionally vague and I can't really speak on that as it's entirely speculative.

And what about Shepard changing

Spoiler: show

into something husk-like at the end of the indoctrinated-ish endings? In my last post I conceded that if the idea that it was all a dream could be wrong, but it could still be an indoctrinated Shepard up on the crucible, being influenced to make a choice that would effectively mean the reapers have won. In these endings he has given up and is basically Saren. Lack of further cinematics on Shepard on the ground support that choosing these endings is as good as the end for Shepard. If he's dreaming, his waking is basically meaningless because he's a reaper slave now and if he isn't dreaming then his death in the citadel/crucible explosion is assured. Breathing in suggests a possible future. The lack of anything ultimately suggests the end of Shepard's story.

Him being indoctrinated at this point is supported by the fact that the child tells Shepard his death is assured because he is partly synthetic. He clearly makes this look like the worst option, going against any kind of self-preservation instinct. To support this further the color theme of this ending is red, which symbolically reads as negative and in the head of the player as 'renegade'. The kid is full of shit. It's an indoctrination ghost. Shepard is constantly having dreams throughout the game of ghostsly images and voices, which is a symptom of indoctrination.

They scrapped some stuff and left certain things out. I'm just not understanding why you think cut content should be treated as factual. It's like watching a DVD extra alternative ending and calling that the factual ending. A leaked script is meaningless when they, you know, change the script in the final product. I saw the plans for TIM in the art book as the

Spoiler: show

final boss. Was he the final boss? No. So why is this even a point to argue about? They changed it and it's something different now.

Bah, speculative? You drop the stargazer scene because you can't explain it under the "theory". That's half the ending because it includes the Normandy.
Explain the stargazer scene to me. And convince me Bioware selling the final game of a trilogy without a real ending is remotely plausible and wouldn't make them the biggest douchebags on the planet. Then I will gladly give your *theory* a little credit.

PS - I love this new quote from Bioware:
"We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you."

Aka. "Enjoy your shitty ending suckers. And buy our DLC!".

Clearly there isn't enough conclusive information or there wouldn't be a debate in the first place. I'm tired of being talked to in a condescending tone so I'm probably not going to reply to you any further on this matter. I have my next surgery in a week and I have better shit to do with my time then get talked down to on the fucking Internet. You've always had issues with disagreeing with people without resorting to being a bully and I'm not going to further feed into this habit of yours by enabling you.