The Shrine

I cracked. Bought XCOM. It's fantastic. Productivity -50%.

Blotus wrote:I cracked. Bought XCOM. It's fantastic. Productivity -50%.

Terror from the Deep was pimp as shit. How does this compare?

SineSwiper wrote:

Blotus wrote:I cracked. Bought XCOM. It's fantastic. Productivity -50%.

Terror from the Deep was pimp as shit. How does this compare?

Asking the wrong person. I never played either of the old PC games. For me, the closest comparison I could draw would be to Valkyria Chronicles. The meat of the game, the combat, is similar to most strategy RPGs that alternate between a player phase and an enemy phase where you're the commander of up to six units. Four classes: support, sniper, heavy, assault. When not in combat you're building underground facilities, researching tech/doing alien autopsies for weapon/armor/skill bonuses, outfitting your soldiers, launching satellites and interceptor jets to shoot down UFOs... there's a ton of shit to keep one busy. I can only guess that I've put in about 20 hours or so by now with no clue of how close I am to the end. You can kind of just keep scanning the Earth over and over, shooting down UFOs and preventing invasions in different countries while ignoring the priority missions (essentially grinding).

Where Dishonored is something I'll probably play through once, this is the type of game I'd tear apart and do multiple plays.

Can't recommend enough to turn-based strategy fans. Though unlike FFT or Valkyria Chronicles, it's less story-driven and more system/resource-based; conducive to playing at your own pace.

Nigerians hate it.

Blotus wrote:Asking the wrong person. I never played either of the old PC games. For me, the closest comparison I could draw would be to Valkyria Chronicles. The meat of the game, the combat, is similar to most strategy RPGs that alternate between a player phase and an enemy phase where you're the commander of up to six units. Four classes: support, sniper, heavy, assault. When not in combat you're building underground facilities, researching tech/doing alien autopsies for weapon/armor/skill bonuses, outfitting your soldiers, launching satellites and interceptor jets to shoot down UFOs... there's a ton of shit to keep one busy. I can only guess that I've put in about 20 hours or so by now with no clue of how close I am to the end. You can kind of just keep scanning the Earth over and over, shooting down UFOs and preventing invasions in different countries while ignoring the priority missions (essentially grinding).

Wow, that sounds EXACTLY like TftD. Did they change anything besides the graphics? Of course, that probably doesn't matter too much, anyway. I might have to pick this up.

I think you should.

I broke down and bought XCOM because waiting another few months for it to go on sale just seemed crazy since it sounds so fun. As much fun as it is to have a squad full of colonels owning everything I think I'm finally ready to play an ironman game. Again. My first game was in Ironman mode but I was demoralized when my squad got wiped during the (first?) alien base mission near the beginning.

Saving that for my second run. That's the one-save mode, yes? Does it autosave?

I generally don't let anybody Major or above to die in missions, so I save frequently and reload should I make a dumb decision that gets somebody killed.

Yeah it's one save only and it auto saves whenever anything of note happens. I just blew 10 minutes away in an Ironman playthrough because I accidentally clicked the scan button instead of an event and time advanced and I lost it. Ugh. Annoying. One of the big problems I had with my last ironman game was my rookie and squaddie-ranked soldiers kept getting one hit. At a certain point I just used them as scouts to flush out the enemy but at a certain point that gimmick screws you over.

I just pad those fuckers up in as much armor and keep them in the rear on overwatch until something juicy presents itself. Few of my colonels are almost unstoppable working together.

I think I'm at the point where I can finish the game, but I haven't advanced everything enough. Still two slots on the Psi tech tree to fill out. Probably not going to bother much upgrading SHIVs. Russia and Argentina are pussies.

Just started playing it yesterday. Damn tutorial takes FOR-EVER. I've played this game before years ago...I know the damn routine. Of course, I can see myself going "paycheck-to-paycheck" with the labs and other stuff. Need to get some satellites up and start downing UFOs for some extra income.

And I abuse saves a bit. I don't like anybody dying, considering how hard the game will probably get. The new ability system is pretty sweet, though. Snipe anything based on any teammate's vision. Fuck yeah! My sniper is racking up the kills and paying the bills.

SineSwiper wrote:Snipe anything based on any teammate's vision. Fuck yeah! My sniper is racking up the kills and paying the bills.

That one was a tough decision in the tree. I took the other option for both of my Col. snipers. I think it was the 'move and shoot' skill that was the counterpart, but I'm not sure.

Yeah move and shoot but if you're moving your snipers then you've been caught with your pants down. I keep two of them around and if I've positioned them correctly then they can take out four enemies in one turn. Some missions I don't even have to move them from their initial drop off point. Ironman mode is intense. I've managed to get my squad full up with colonels and now I'm trying to get them titan armor and plasma weaponry before I tackle the initial alien base. I'll probably give up before I can afford the titan armor but I'm definitely waiting for the materials to finish up my last two squad members with plasma weapons.

It's a fine game but has near zero replayability (or depth for that matter). Don't get me wrong, I don't regret buying it...but it simply doesn't live up to its namesake.

Blotus wrote:That one was a tough decision in the tree. I took the other option for both of my Col. snipers. I think it was the 'move and shoot' skill that was the counterpart, but I'm not sure.

No brainer for me. The other option basically just dulled the sniping skill. If you go sniper, go full on.

kali o. wrote:but it simply doesn't live up to its namesake.

How so?

Blotus wrote: How so?

The lack of replayability and depth, as mentioned in the sentence before. Progression is entirely linear, as advancement is gated by specific actions (mainly research). The player is not tested over the course of the game with any degree of situational difficulty, randomness or alternative progression -- the only thing that will really change is your RNG luck within each map...which borders on stupidity when 100% isn't really 100%.

As for depth...where should I start? I'll be generous and only compare to UFO Defense. We are stuck with one jet at a time? No strategy in those fights save some insta clickies (and again, RNG)? No more base/money management (funding is dumbed down, grey market is sell only...basically, only scientist/engineer is a concern)? No base defense? Single base only? No patrolling/discovery needed? Less research/build options? Less enemies, weapons and items?

They improved one thing in Xcom and that's the combat engine + cover system. In every other way, it falls behind its namesake, a game that is TWENTY years old. I played this new Xcom once on norm and once for classic...I played UFO Defense for years, including all the clones.

Yeah I'm liking the game but it is kind of lacking in a "We'll make this part of the game better with DLC" kind of way. And it's basically the same game each time you start a new saved game. Each map has enemies in the exact same place and with a little memorization, once you've seen them all it's a cinch to get through them.

I'm not necessarily doing super well with my most recent ironman game because I've gotten better at the game (although I have), but because I know where enemies are hiding. While there's a new thing that pops up once in a while and that keeps it fresh enough for me to keep plowing through it, I'm kind of starting to have doubts as to whether I'll dip in for the second and third playthroughs I was thinking about a couple days ago.

Well if you get bored, give UFO:AI a shot. It's a free open source project.

Shit, the old skool games are probably $5 for the whole set on Steam. And they are still very playable. I was playing TftD a few years ago.

Man, it is a bitch to try to get a satellite in the air. I've been researching like crazy, but I need so much time, money, and engineers just to get the uplink+satellite up and going. Plus I really need the monthly funding that comes with those satellites. And the UFO coverage that nets me more money. For a game that expect you to eventually have 20-30 of these things out there, I would have thought it would have been easier.

I also don't like how they have dumbed down the "line of sight" in this game. Shots used to fire as projectile objects, ie: things that could hit walls, teammates, other aliens, etc. Now, my sniper can clip through some wall and get a 93% accurate shot on an alien.

Oh, and the "reaction movement" shit is annoying. When I spot a group of aliens, it shouldn't have a free turn to move around.

Pretty lame ending, but I was expecting that; the story is very disposable. I did really enjoy the final encounter wherein I finally came to appreciate the Psi abilities (esp. mind control for using an enemy unit to scout).

I forsee the great need of that 'shoot from anywhere' sniper skill on the tougher difficulties. I figure with two jacked snipers with double tap at the back of the line and some tanked assault/heavies pushing forward, the game would be pretty easy. I'll see.

Glad I don't have any association with the original game for comparison's sake. This is one of my favorites this year (with ME3), though I freely admit it has many of the faults you guys have pointed out. I definitely could not enjoy the original at this point, having watched some videos of it. With no nostalgic attachment, the presentation alone would kill me. I can, however, see where someone who had played the original 18 years ago would prefer it (in the same way I prefer FF4 or 6 to any of the post SNES era FF games, though I would not expect someone new to the series now to be able to go back and enjoy them).

Perhaps thats a bit of a reach for a comparison. I don't know. Pretty hungover still at 8pm here.

Blotus wrote:Pretty lame ending, but I was expecting that; the story is very disposable.

Yeah, I was really hating the cheesy cut scenes with this game. The Overmind speech talking about the various species was kinda cool, though.

Blotus wrote:I did really enjoy the final encounter wherein I finally came to appreciate the Psi abilities (esp. mind control for using an enemy unit to scout).

Except for the fact that "friendlies" are damn hard to kill. If you've mind controlled a unit, and he's the last one, you basically have to pellet him with grenades. The game should have just awarded you with a live capture and be done with it. As such, I started using these guys in "suicide runs" to kill them off that way, while attacking and distracting the other enemy units.

But, yeah, even the Mind Flay skill is awesome, being that it works with most enemies at a greater distance and accuracy than most weapons. Good for a final shot at foes, and even if it doesn't kill them, they are crippled enough to not fight back with any good accuracy.

Blotus wrote:I forsee the great need of that 'shoot from anywhere' sniper skill on the tougher difficulties. I figure with two jacked snipers with double tap at the back of the line and some tanked assault/heavies pushing forward, the game would be pretty easy. I'll see.

I had three, and I loved having that many snipers. Especially when I could get them to elevation with an Archangel suit or grapple, and it was outdoors. Others would scout, and these guys could pick off two enemies at a time EACH. Couldn't really decide if Double Shot or In The Zone was better, since both had their uses in different situations.

Blotus wrote:Glad I don't have any association with the original game for comparison's sake. This is one of my favorites this year (with ME3), though I freely admit it has many of the faults you guys have pointed out. I definitely could not enjoy the original at this point, having watched some videos of it. With no nostalgic attachment, the presentation alone would kill me. I can, however, see where someone who had played the original 18 years ago would prefer it (in the same way I prefer FF4 or 6 to any of the post SNES era FF games, though I would not expect someone new to the series now to be able to go back and enjoy them).

See, I think this whole game is betting on the fact that you haven't played the originals. After beating the game, I'm with Kali about this one. It has nothing to do with nostalgia, and everything to do with how the game plays. Besides the cover system, classes, and pretty graphics, this game is actually WORSE than any of the older XCOM games.

Kali covered a bunch, but the game is also buggy as hell, with some pretty obvious shit. Like 3D movement. You turn on flight, and you start to regret you even bothered building an Archangel suit. The movement cursor doesn't want to stay on one elevation (which happens even without flying). The two parts of the "cursor" (the box and the elevation pipe) will separate if you go too far from where you can move. I've also had some really dumb elevation problems with aiming. Like my sniper happens to be in-between two arches, but I can't see that because the game removes all obstacles from my view. So, I'm trying to figure how why I can clearly see the enemy, but my unit can't.

Or the fact that when you did the first shot of a Double Shot, it wouldn't update the UI until you clicked on an icon. So it looked like you could do two Headshots, but then it updated when you clicked on it. Lazy programming. There were also times when I didn't even get my Double Shot.

I've already pointed out the crap with Mind Control, the lack of any projectile physics, and that "reaction movement" garbage. There's also no sense of view direction, which is sort of a good and bad thing. But, between that and the reaction movement, you don't get that feeling of fear when you turn around and you find an alien hiding in the darkness. No big CGI scene; just a single indication that an enemy popped into view and you realize that you're nearly done with your turn.

There is also absolutely nothing new here, either. Yeah, yeah, laser weapons and then plasma weapons, with various suit upgrades and psi powers. It's like every one of these games is Metroid, but this one is Metroid Lite for the "American audience".

Tried out XCOM: Apocalypse (3rd game), but wasn't really all that impressed. Some of the interface looks pretty good, but it seems to have a rather high learning curve, as it is much different than the UFO Defense and Terror from the Deep. The Wiki article seems to indicate that it was 10x more ambitious than they had the capacity for.

Apparently, Enforcer & Interceptor (4th/5th) weren't well received, as they were radically different from their predecessors. At least Apoc was still a turn-based strategy game, even if the world interface was weird. So, I would still recommend the 1st/2nd games as being awesome, even in this day and age.