The Shrine

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Are there any MMORPGs that actually *focus* on PKill/PvP? I definitely think there's a distinct lack of games like this</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>There's a reason for that, not many people find getting their character killed fun. If you want Player vs Player action there's FPSs for that. WoW is unique because you actually HAVE to storm into town with like 40 other players at one point to reap rewards.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>It doesn't work because you'll inevitably get ganked by someone who has more time than you.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>DAoC, Shadowbane.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Anarchy Online storyline is based on PVP</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Seriously, though, if you were to implement a combat system that concentrates more heavily on skill, strategy, and movement rather than simply levels, skills, and items it would do a lot to take away from the "more time = more power" set up - at least in the sense that more play time merely implies better items, better spells, etc., rather than implying more skill at <I>using</i> one's spells /items. A person who spends more time on such a game will still probably be better than a newer person, but moreso in the sense that a veteran Street Fighter player is generally better than an inexperienced one.

Beyond that, you could deal with the problem by offering players incentives (like large amounts of exp, clan points, whatever) for killing players more powerful than themselves and give nothing for killing weaker players. And, of course, there's always the notion of Pkill level ranges.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>I mean, no one likes getting killed by mobs either, do they? But players still group up and go off to fight the monsters and explore the dungeons. It's not so much that players don't like to be killed, it's that they don't like to be randomly ambushed for no reason while there questing or out gaining exp, etc. If PvP was a fully integrated part of the game like mob-killing and exploration instead of just an optional feature you wouldn't have scenarios like that (or at least, not as often).</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Shadowbane seems pretty close to what I had in mind when I made this thread. I've never played it though. Was it successful? And what is DAoC, btw?</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Dark Age of Camelot</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>The appeal of MMORPG is that it rewards time over skill. If you want to be rewarded by skill there's already too many games that do that. FPS and RTS games come to mind.

There's really no incentives or system in the world that can balance a game where people who can play more is naturally stronger. A lot of MMORPG now go with something like PvP on the side but I've yet to hear any real success out of it.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>The exact same argument could be said for FPSs, or in fact, anything.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>You don't become the best RTS or FPS player by playing a lot. Sure, the best players obviously play a ton, but there are plenty of people who play a lot and still suck.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>The thing about MMORPGs that Don's pointing out though is that more play-time equals better items/levels which automatically makes you better even if you're a complete dumbass.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Well, you need to have some playing ability, but yeah, if you've the time, you can be like 2nd tier (whatever role) in an uber guild just by playing a lot. In terms of power, that's probably like >99% of the playing population. Can't say that about any other competitive game.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Unless it's FFXI...one of my friends sold his account to some kid that account dropped 3 levels in a week and so far I ran into him recently and he's actually dropped more than ten levels...so in some games play-time doesn't equal better levels</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>No game is that hard, though some people should learn not to repeat things that hurts them.</div>