Videogame controller family tree

[Kupek]

http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/

I was one of the unfortunate people to buy a Dual Analog for the PS, only for the Dual Schock to come out a few months later.

[SineSwiper]

Disappointed that they didn't have the 8-bit joystick, which featured the trigger button on the top of the joystick. The Saturn's D-Pad is still probably the best one ever made, and the N64's analog stick was by far the worst designed analog controller ever made.

What the hell...a early prototype of the N64 controller...

WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING, NINTENDO?!?! This design would have worked but you fucked it up! Oh well, at least they fixed their mistake on the next console.

Also, what is this trend towards wireless controllers? I don't like the idea of needing to make sure that my controllers are charged up before I play my game. I have enough problems with that on my GBA, but at least it's wireless for a reason.

[Kupek]

What about that design was better than the N64 controller? They look the same to me. I actually liked the N64 controller.

I like the trend toward wireless. Why have wires if they're not needed? I can't remember which system it was, but if the controller isn't charged, you can still plug it into the USB port and play while it charges.

[Julius Seeker]

I also like the idea of wireless controllers on the new consoles, I have never had a problem with my wireless gamecube controllers, and my DS or SP have never run out of power, ever (because I always charge them when I am not using them).

[Flip]

What about that design was better than the N64 controller? They look the same to me. I actually liked the N64 controller.

I like the trend toward wireless. Why have wires if they're not needed? I can't remember which system it was, but if the controller isn't charged, you can still plug it into the USB port and play while it charges.

The analog stick. The one that they used is hard to keep your thumb on and just plain sucks. The prototype that Sine posted looks like it has a better stick.

[Kupek]

I never had any problems with the analog stick. I found that the N64 stick gave me more precise control than the Dual Analog sticks for the PS.

[Julius Seeker]

The N64 is still the most precise analog stick ever made. It did have one flaw though, durability, about 60% of them would get loose over time; at least that is from my experience. I've had about 10 of them over time, and only 4 of those 10 are still in perfect condition, two of them are very loose, and the other 4 are sort of loose. When playing games like Ocarina of Time, and Majora's mask, it is easy to see how the N64 controller is more precise than the gamecube one; which is the next most precise of the bunch.

Flip, it is not possible for someone finger to slip off of an analog stick unless your hands are covered in grease or something.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Love love love wireless controllers. I've had to replace the batteries for my Wavebird twice during its lifetime and it is a joy to not have to worry about cords. I play Halo 2 with a bunch of friends every other weekend: four or five TVs get crammed into one room and part of a patio, with so many XBoxes, and so, so many cords. Wireless controllers would allow us to eliminate most of those, and lordy that would be awesome.

I still don't understand your hatred of the N64's controller, Sine. It's my second-favourite controller of all time after the Controller S, and I never had any problems with its precision (the analogue controllers on the dual shock on the other hand have dead zones that are insanely large). The only real problem I had with it was the tendency of the base of the stick to grind after time and lose precision.

[Flip]

The N64 is still the most precise analog stick ever made.

I have no idea if this is true and either do you. Another example of the kind of idiotic statements you make. If it is more precise TO YOU, than that is one thing, most precise ever made if a whole different animal... unless of course you do know the specs and sensitivities to every controller ever made and have tested them all in a contolled experiment... didnt think so.

To me, the N64 analog stick was the worst one i have ever played with. The design made it small and the top made it difficult to keep my finger on. Mario Kart 64 suffered in my eyes from having to use the crappy stick, i could pull off many more turns and moves and drive a lot more precise with the D pad on Super Mario Kart for the SNES. My finger do get a little sweaty during intense competetive multiplayer games and i have had an extremely easier time with the analog sticks from PS, PS2, X-Box. The concave design of the prototype that Sine posted looks like it would have been a lot better.

[Zeus]

Disappointed that they didn't have the 8-bit joystick, which featured the trigger button on the top of the joystick. The Saturn's D-Pad is still probably the best one ever made, and the N64's analog stick was by far the worst designed analog controller ever made.

What the hell...a early prototype of the N64 controller...

WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING, NINTENDO?!?! This design would have worked but you fucked it up! Oh well, at least they fixed their mistake on the next console.

Also, what is this trend towards wireless controllers? I don't like the idea of needing to make sure that my controllers are charged up before I play my game. I have enough problems with that on my GBA, but at least it's wireless for a reason.

Most will have rechargable batteries that last 50 hours and can be charged while you're playing, so you'll hardly notice

[Zeus]

The N64 is still the most precise analog stick ever made.

I have no idea if this is true and either do you. Another example of the kind of idiotic statements you make. If it is more precise TO YOU, than that is one thing, most precise ever made if a whole different animal... unless of course you do know the specs and sensitivities to every controller ever made and have tested them all in a contolled experiment... didnt think so.

To me, the N64 analog stick was the worst one i have ever played with. The design made it small and the top made it difficult to keep my finger on. Mario Kart 64 suffered in my eyes from having to use the crappy stick, i could pull off many more turns and moves and drive a lot more precise with the D pad on Super Mario Kart for the SNES. My finger do get a little sweaty during intense competetive multiplayer games and i have had an extremely easier time with the analog sticks from PS, PS2, X-Box. The concave design of the prototype that Sine posted looks like it would have been a lot better.

Well, the N64 stick is the most precise first-party, mass-release console stick ever made.

[Julius Seeker]

The N64 is still the most precise analog stick ever made.

I have no idea if this is true and either do you. Another example of the kind of idiotic statements you make.If it is more precise TO YOU, than that is one thing, most precise ever made if a whole different animal... unless of course you do know the specs and sensitivities to every controller ever made and have tested them all in a contolled experiment... didnt think so.

Actually, I do happen to have extensive experience using every single controller on that chart involved with released consoles. I trust my experience a lot more than I trust your word, especially since you have admitted that you have a sweaty hand condition. When used correctly, the N64 controller is indeed the most precise one on that chart; it is obvious beyond the point that you can argue otherwise.

[SineSwiper]

Really, it has to do with hand size, thumb placement, etc. Just because it works with your child-like fingers doesn't mean it works for other peoples' hands. The N64 half-stick was an analog "pad" wanting to be a joystick. It was too long to put my thumb on comfortably, the thumbpad was too small to actually rest on (or do anything with), and the stick was too short to use as a joystick.

I remember renting a N64 with a friend of mine just to see what all of the hype was about. We tried play Zelda 64 for about 20 minutes before we were about ready to chuck the fucking controller out the window. It was also important to note that the left side of the controller (the D-Pad) was fucking useless, because they forced you to use the analog stick. I've never played a game on the PSX/PS2, besides ones that actually used the D-Pad for choosing items/weapons, that forced you to use the analog pad without a D-Pad alternative.

You can talk about precision all you want, but precision doesn't mean that much, really. Everybody is just going to push all the way in one direction or the other. About the only thing you need with the range is degrees direction, not the amount of speed. Even with games like Zone of the Enders, it's full blast all the way. (Damn, I've broken more analog pads with those two games...)

It's okay. XBox had the same problem with their fucking huge ass controller. Some people liked it, but most bitched about the size. Like the page says, it's a landmark that a company switches to a new default controller because of the problems with the old one. At least Nintendo fixed the problem with the GC controller. Hell, I dare say that it's better than the PS2, at least from what little I've used the GC one.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Don't misplace your insults, Sine, the odds are fairly good that I have bigger hands than you.

Everybody is just going to push all the way in one direction or the other.

Truly, this is a symptom of playing games that don't properly utilise analogue control :).

[SineSwiper]

Truly, this is a symptom of playing games that don't properly utilise analogue control :).

That's not true. All games, including RPGs that don't need it, have the full range of control on the pad. However, nobody wants to go slow, especially if you're going to hang at that spring-loaded setting on the analog pad for a while.

And I don't know exactly what type of hand is required to play with that N64 stick properly, as I have small hands myself. The biggest thing is how small the thumb pad is, though. Yes, it keeps slipping because it's not designed to "cup" a thumb at all, or at least not an adult-sized one.

[Flip]

I trust my experience a lot more than I trust your word

Which is funny, because i trust my experience a lot more than your experience. We've both played a heck of a lot of console games on every console made, i hate that controller and you want to have its babies, whos to say who is right?

My preference is rubberized coating or a 'cupped' design and on a place on the controller where i dont feel like i have a claw after 45 min. of play. The N64 controller fails all of this with no noticeable better performance compared to everything else out there. 'Nuff said.

[Kupek]

You can talk about precision all you want, but precision doesn't mean that much, really. Everybody is just going to push all the way in one direction or the other. About the only thing you need with the range is degrees direction, not the amount of speed.

Except in Super Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Walking near ledges and such made use of precise control.

[SineSwiper]

Except in Super Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Walking near ledges and such made use of precise control.

It's a rariety that's used 1% of the time. That 1% is not worth building an analog controller for, while alienating the use for the 99%.

Besides, it's not like the other analog controllers don't have that type of precise control. Honestly, you really don't need it that precise. It's like increasing the 8-bits-per-element RGB scale to 16-bit; nobody is going to tell the difference, so it really doesn't matter.

[Zeus]

Except in Super Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Walking near ledges and such made use of precise control.

It's a rariety that's used 1% of the time. That 1% is not worth building an analog controller for, while alienating the use for the 99%.

Besides, it's not like the other analog controllers don't have that type of precise control. Honestly, you really don't need it that precise. It's like increasing the 8-bits-per-element RGB scale to 16-bit; nobody is going to tell the difference, so it really doesn't matter.

Pick up Mario 64. You'll notice that you have about 5 speeds of movement. Pick up Ass Bandicoot or Bore Raider and you'll notice you have about 3 (regardless of my opinion of the games).

Simply put, it's the best in terms of precision. This is not open to personal opinion, it's a mechanical thing. You don't like the feel? Fine, that's your opinion. But in terms of mechanical structure, it was the most precise one ever released for the home consoles.

Personally, I think it's the best, even compared to the GCs. I just don't like the stubby feel of the analog pads. That stick provided me with much more control than any of the newer controllers, including the GC. It's my fav controller of all time. But at the end of the day, it's just a controller. You get used to it regardless of what it is. Even the gay layout of the GC buttons I got used to and it's not an issue. Aside from maybe the Jaguar controller, there hasn't been a single controller that you can't get used to in a short period of time, as long as you IQ is greater than that of a jar of mayonaisse. It's just a matter of getting used to it. Even with the Xbox sasquatch controller (I have smaller hands for a man who's 6'2") I got used to it and played Project Gotham for hours. It was only after I stopped that I realized my hands hurt.

Just try and you can get used to any controller, none are really that bad (Jaguar controller aside; that thing was incredibly bad)

[Flip]

Pick up Ass Bandicoot or Bore Raider and you'll notice you have about 3 (regardless of my opinion of the games).

Thats the thing, i'm sure the developers of those games could have easily stuck in an extra 2 speeds if they wanted to, but decided it would be pointless to do so. The 5 speeds in Mario 64 does not make the controller the most precise, Nintendo just opted to add those speeds as part of the game.

Never in my life have i run over a cliff and wished to myself, "If only i had more speed options i would have LIVED!" In most games you either want full speed or a creep. On Untold Legends for my PSP you use the nub to move the character and it has the 3 speeds you talk about: crawl, walk, run. When in the menu screen there is a hand that you use the nub to move like a mouse and it has essentially limitless speeds of movement. This just goes to show that the amount of speed used for character movement isnt always the full potential the analog stick/nub has to offer. Bottom line, i'm sure the PS2 analog could easily handle 5 speeds of movement and be just as 'precise'.

[Kupek]

It's a rariety that's used 1% of the time. That 1% is not worth building an analog controller for, while alienating the use for the 99%.

You're creating a strawman. Having precise analog controls is not mutually exclusive with whatever part of the design it is you didn't like.

And it came up enough for me to notice; it would have been nice in MGS to have more precise control. Throwing around madeup percentages only hurts the point you're trying to make.

Besides, it's not like the other analog controllers don't have that type of precise control.

They didn't, at the time, which was my point. The N64 analog stick was more precise than my Dual Analog PS controller.

Honestly, you really don't need it that precise. It's like increasing the 8-bits-per-element RGB scale to 16-bit; nobody is going to tell the difference, so it really doesn't matter.

Poor example. 8-bits allows only 256 colors, while 16-bits allows 65,536 colors. That's a difference of two orders of magnitude; that's big and certainly noticable.

[Blotus]

With the exception of the D-Pad (not great for fighters, especially SF3), I think the Xbox controller S is my favorite to date.

And yes, the N64 analog is still the most precise... as long as you don't play Mario Party.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Sine, you're still doing it. I have an adult-sized thumb and it has always sat comfortably on the N64 stick.

And it came up enough for me to notice; it would have been nice in MGS to have more precise control.

This is the example that always leaps to my mind when thinking about the (dual) shocking imprecision of the PS1/PS2 analog controllers. Play Mario or Zelda and then play MGS, the difference in control is painful. It's most painfully obvious in MGS3, where you need to use the d-pad to get Snake to slowly sneak. If the dual shock was up to snuff you could just angle the stick slightly to get the same effect.

[Eric]

You can talk about precision all you want, but precision doesn't mean that much, really. Everybody is just going to push all the way in one direction or the other. About the only thing you need with the range is degrees direction, not the amount of speed.

Except in Super Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Walking near ledges and such made use of precise control.

Really? On the DS version of Mario 64, I don't have a problem with Ledges and I run non-stop. ;p