The Shrine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberta_Williams

Briefly, she and her husband Ken were the most prominent people at Sierra for most of its history. Her main contributions have come with the King's Quest series, on which she and Ken were the designers, though she apparently designed a few other titles as well (such as Phantasmagoria, which is a bit surprising - apparently Phantasmagoria is a true horror game, which is very dark, and even includes a rape scene). I mention her because the King's Quest series, which I played two of, was one of the few game series I've played that completely, totally immersed me, and so far these are the only games on my "short list" of really immersive titles that were designed primarily by a woman. One of the things I really liked about the King's Quest games is that the storyline in each was far, far more than an excuse for a fun game; it was integrated tightly with the puzzles and gameplay and made for a really great experience.

The rest of the immersive short list for me would probably include Mario 64, most Zelda games, Kingdom Hearts, Metal Gear Solid 1, and the Ultima series, though I may be missing one or two. I love all these games to death, but Miyamoto, Tetsuya Nomura, Hideo Kojima, and Richard Garriott are all men; Roberta is the only woman that I'd consider even putting in this category.

What I don't understand is why there aren't more women designers - programming is a traditionally male field, but Miyamoto doesn't program even a bit, I don't think, and there are great stories to be told and games to be made from both men and women. I would looooove to see another Roberta Williams rise up in the game industry and tell some great stories, using games as a medium.

What do you all think?

A vast majority of women do not follow logic. Therefore, there are very few women programmers. There are even less that want to program video games.

Quite frankly, it's not the man's fault that it's a man's world. The boundaries are lifted on all sides, yet not enough women take advantage of it.

SineSwiper wrote:A vast majority of women do not follow logic. Therefore, there are very few women programmers. There are even less that want to program video games.

Quite frankly, it's not the man's fault that it's a man's world. The boundaries are lifted on all sides, yet not enough women take advantage of it.

Bullshit. There is no physiological reason why women should be less capable of following logic than a man. Further, there are still cultural obstacles in the form of expecations and blatant sexism, such as yours.

I didn't say that they weren't capable of it. I said that they generally don't follow it. There's a big difference. The only obstacle is actually getting to the point of being a programmer, instead of something else. After a woman makes that choice, most people are going to encourage her to go into the field, because hey, we need more female programmers.

There is a gender difference between careers for a reason, and it's not because of discrimination. The same applies for black culture and certain careers like, say, basketball. It's because black culture has deemed it to be the "out", the main goal, for all black males to follow: a career in basketball. And it's not exactly a good direction to be going. (But, that's another discussion.)

SineSwiper wrote:I didn't say that they weren't capable of it. I said that they generally don't follow it. There's a big difference.

And I'm saying that statement has no rational basis.

Mental wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberta_Williams

Briefly, she and her husband Ken were the most prominent people at Sierra for most of its history. Her main contributions have come with the King's Quest series, on which she and Ken were the designers, though she apparently designed a few other titles as well (such as Phantasmagoria, which is a bit surprising - apparently Phantasmagoria is a true horror game, which is very dark, and even includes a rape scene). I mention her because the King's Quest series, which I played two of, was one of the few game series I've played that completely, totally immersed me, and so far these are the only games on my "short list" of really immersive titles that were designed primarily by a woman. One of the things I really liked about the King's Quest games is that the storyline in each was far, far more than an excuse for a fun game; it was integrated tightly with the puzzles and gameplay and made for a really great experience.

The rest of the immersive short list for me would probably include Mario 64, most Zelda games, Kingdom Hearts, Metal Gear Solid 1, and the Ultima series, though I may be missing one or two. I love all these games to death, but Miyamoto, Tetsuya Nomura, Hideo Kojima, and Richard Garriott are all men; Roberta is the only woman that I'd consider even putting in this category.

What I don't understand is why there aren't more women designers - programming is a traditionally male field, but Miyamoto doesn't program even a bit, I don't think, and there are great stories to be told and games to be made from both men and women. I would looooove to see another Roberta Williams rise up in the game industry and tell some great stories, using games as a medium.

What do you all think?

Miyamoto started out as an artist, I don't think he knows how to program at all. He just happened to create Donkey Kong 'cause they asked him to make a game and the rest is history

Sine, I love you. See sig.

Kupek wrote:

SineSwiper wrote:A vast majority of women do not follow logic. Therefore, there are very few women programmers. There are even less that want to program video games.

Quite frankly, it's not the man's fault that it's a man's world. The boundaries are lifted on all sides, yet not enough women take advantage of it.

Bullshit. There is no physiological reason why women should be less capable of following logic than a man. Further, there are still cultural obstacles in the form of expecations and blatant sexism, such as yours.

Women & Logic don't mix, your arguement is flawed.

I dont know why, but thta made me laugh pretty hard.