The Shrine

I figure we should start a FFXII thread to prevent a complete threadjack of the Dragon Quest thread.

<a href="http://1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3145629&did=1">Jeremy Parsih</a> has a favorable, borderline fanboy, preview over at 1up.com. <a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/2005/11/18">Tycho</a> clearly does not like what he's seen, which has been echoed here as well.

I have not played the demo, but I am on Parish's side of the fence, and have been ever since news of the game came out. I have no problem with a dramatic overhaul of how a Final Fantasy game is played. By now, I've played six Final Fantasy games that all had the same basic gameplay. FFX had the best gameplay of all, but it was still a refinement. The basic gameplay was the same as in FF4 which I played when I was a sophomore in high school (which was many years after it came out). I'm pleased that the creators are finally trying something new. I've becomed tired of playing the same thing over and over.

As Seeker pointed out, many people said "This isn't Final Fantasy" about FF7 because it didn't take place in a typical medieval fantasy setting with dwarves and dragons. I reckognize that there is a point at which you've changed a series enough that it no longer can be thought as being in line with the previous games, but I don't buy that FFXII is at that point. I might disagree after playing the game, but I doubt it. Many long-running series have changed their gameplay over the years and still produced good games (Mariod, Zelda, Metroid, others escape me).

On the other hand, maybe FFXII is different enough from the rest of the series to "not be Final Fantasy." If that's the case, then I think that is inevitable. Hironobu Sakaguchi is no longer the executive producer. Amano is not providing character designs (although his role has been limited ever since FF7). Uematsu is not composing the music. I think that much of what we consider to be Final Fantasy is a result of the direction of Sakaguchi, and without him, it's possible that the end result is not going to be what we expect. I'm okay with that. A series of any kind is the reflection of the people who made it, and now might be the time that Final Fantasy becomes something different because it's being made by different people.

(For the record, I have not played I - III, V and XI.)

(Ah, damn. You make it hard to split the thread since this one is already made, but whatever.)

Again, I didn't realize that there was a demo, but I still don't like basing the entire game on a demo, especially since (like Seeker said) there's still about 5 months worth of work left in it.

Final Fantasy 1 was just like Dragon Warrior, it focussed mainly on addictiveness and replayability; which in my opinion is a working formula. I have played through the game a number of times, and FF1 Dawn of Souls twice. It is one of the only RPGs I have ever played that I like more and more each time I play it.

Final Fantasy 2 Dawn of Souls I have never finished, I would like to one day, but the game went for a much more open ended style, and they didn't give a lot of clues as to where to go, what to do. The problem is that there is a direct path that needs to be taken, it is easy to get lost from it. I suppose I will finish it one day.

Final Fantasy 3j is very similar to Final Fantasy II (SNES) gameplaywise, it essentially had all of the good parts of Final Fantasy II but none of the bad.

Final Fantasy 5 kept freezing up on me, so I never played through it or had much of an opinion.

Final Fantasy 3j in my opinion was the best FF game until Final Fantasy III.


Finmal Fantasy III and Final Fantasy 7 I found to have gameplay that was nearly identical. Final Fantasy 8 was quite a bit different from the norm. As was Final Fantasy 10 (going back to turn based, the best turn based system I had seen to date).


Anyways, according to Gamespot, this demo is just a translated version of the demo released last July in Japan. They also say that the retail demo is very limited compared to the actual game.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/finalfa ... id=6139610

Anyways, one could ask what defines Final Fantasy anyways. Is it the battle system? Other RPGs have ever similar ones. The setting? The story type? fighting a god at the end? Who writes the script? Who does the music?

Anyways, speaking of the music, there will be some input from Uematsu. He has at least done some of the traditional Final Fantasy songs up for the game. With Sakimoto in charge, I expect the music will have a much more Vagrant Story/Ogre Battle/Final Fantasy Tactics feel to it.

Square's been saying that the series would be making radical changes ever since they announced FFIX, which was supposed to be the last traditional FF.

I haven't played the demo yet, but I don't think change is all that bad. Yasumi Matsuno is writing, so the odds are pretty good that the plot won't be disappointing.

Torgo wrote:Square's been saying that the series would be making radical changes ever since they announced FFIX, which was supposed to be the last traditional FF.

I haven't played the demo yet, but I don't think change is all that bad. Yasunori Matsuno is writing, so the odds are pretty good that the plot won't be disappointing.

I think you mean Yasumi Matsuno, you are mixing his first name up with Mitsuda's =P

I agree, FFT, Vagrant Story, and the Ogre Battle series have all had excellent plots to them. Arguably, it could be said that these are among the best plots within any game. But strategy games are easier to incorporate stories into than Adventure/RPGs. That's why I think linear strategy games often have better stories to them.

The Seeker wrote: I think you mean Yasumi Matsuno, you are mixing his first name up with Mitsuda's =P

No I'm not...

I look forward to FFXII. I'll play it. I may even buy it at release.

Megami Tensei games have taken over the Square/FF "must buy right fucking now" slot in my book, though, so I'm really not putting much thought into this game yet.

I've thought the FF battle system needed a rework since FFVII. I'm very much looking forward to seeing this, but haven't seen the demo yet.

Tycho is not the gaming paragon of new-technology-acceptance he often seems to be, I think. He wanted to shit on the Revolution controller too, but refrained because the DS touch-screen actually turned out to be really fun despite his initial misgivings. I think he may really just be another "I-want-what-I-already-know" gamer who is very good at giving off the impression that he's forward-thinking. But he does write a funny comic strip, so...

the thing is though is that it is a horrendous battle system. it's trying to be like an mmo and pulls it off as well as a retarded monkey doing shakespeare

I have heard a lot of mixed accounts of how the battle system works. I do not know who to listen to, so I will play it for myself.

MMORPG combat systems have been ahead of the RPG curve for a long while now because you can't even pretend there is anything else in a MMORPG (besides graphics) unlike a RPG so everyone works really hard on their combat system, so this seems like a step in the right direction. Of course the implementation can always suck, but it's not like people didn't manage to screw up a traditional RPG system either, so I'll wait and see.

Just played it. It's not too bad. It's intimidating at first, but it's really just the ATB system with the ability to move your main character in battle. When you initiate an attack, your party members will auto attack once their bar fills up. If you want them to do something different(item, magic, another attack,etc.), you can call up their menu, but it resets their time bar. So far the AI has been pretty decent. They seem to know an enemie's weakness and cast spells accordingly.

If all this sounds still sounds overwhelming, there's a scenario in the demo where the action freezes while you check a character menu during battle. Assuming this makes it to the final product, it'll be similar to choosing between "Wait" and "Active" in the previous games.

Also, as you may know, random battles have been done away with. You can check enemies from a distance using the D-pad, and it even shows their HP and weaknesses. They do respawn if you wander far anough from an area and then return, though.