The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • EverQuest and WoW

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #94756  by Don
 Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:23 am
Today I was going through my usual entertainment (?) of reading the FoH boards while reading an old martial arts fiction story about a bunch of ex-thugs trying to go back to a life of exciting crime, I suddenly had an insight on the nature of EQ and WoW. EverQuest is like robbing a bank. It is a tough thing to do and is very demanding, and there's no guaranteed you'll get through it alive. But the payoff can be pretty good, and also everyone knows if you're the greatest bank robber in the world (ala EQ uberguilds). Great robbers (guilds) come and go and you always have to be on your guard to stay ahead of the pack.

Now moving to WoW. WoW is like money laundering. Based on WoW's numbers at least 90% of the people who play WoW never thought about being a bank robber (played a MMORPG seriously before). Some may hit it big, some may not, but either way life is easy and good. The 10% that came from an ex-hardcore MMORPG find themselves quickly fading into obscurity. The payoff may be good, but no one knows who you are anymore since money launderng isn't something you brag about even within your own crime circles especially when the rest of the world is doing it too, and life isn't as exciting as before. To make things worse, their previous skills as bank robbers do not transfer into the business of money laundering, on top of the fact that they were never good bank robbers in the first place. Indeed just about every 'great' EQ guild that moved onto WoW ended up fading into obscurity except FoH, which is popular but certainly not anywhere on the top of WoW.

After being used to the easy life, the ex-hardcore guys find it daunting to go back to the life of bank-robbing for questionable payoff. Indeed when confronted why these ex-great players complain all day about how WoW sucks and have nothing to do but don't got back to EQ which certainly has more than enough things to do (no one can possibly dispute that as EQ sits with 10 expansions of content), you invariably get responses that indicate people aren't as hardcore as they used to be. The notion of being the center of the crime world and all its glory is no match to the easy life. Indeed there is no reason to believe these guys would even be successful bank robbers (a majority of FoH forum posters were never anyone important in EQ or WoW), so why risk the easy payoff for the hard stuff? So all we get is some guys talked about 'back in their days' they were robbing banks (unsuccessfully) uphills in the snow bothways and now the newer wimpy money laundering (WoW) guys don't know what it's like to be truly hardcore.

And then you got Vanguard, which would be as hardcore as strapping some dynamite on yourself and blow yourself up.

 #94931  by Oracle
 Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:18 pm
0_o

 #94935  by kali o.
 Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:03 pm
Can't say I really agree...I've (and others I play with) have always been a driving force in the MMORPGs we play (Look on the Frostmane forums for references to Militia or VC).

These games (rpgs) have never been about skill, in any sense of the word. You want a successful, well-known guild/player in any MMORPG, you need:

- time (both in char development and understanding the game)
- Macro/UI customization
- Vent/TS/etc
- Forum Drama

That's it. No skill. And your "hardcore" use made me chuckle. WTF does hardcore mean? These games are nerd fooder and time wasters - end of story. Is L2 "hardcore" because it takes 60 more hours to reach level 50 than WoW? I dunno...define what that stupid term (hardcore) means to you....sounds like elitist dorkery to me.

 #94945  by Don
 Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:55 pm
Eh, hardcore doesn't imply good or not. In fact most people who use that term are usually someone who was a nobody in EQ/whatever that tried to make a name in another game. I play EQ quite casually compared to most people in my guild. The time commitment on a MMORPG is vastly exaggerated. If you can play EQ 4 hours a day and you're the most talented MMORPG player ever, you'll catch up to the top tier of competitiveness within an year. For a game with 10 expansions and having people who potentially had a 6 year headstart, I think that's pretty good. Yes 4 hours/day is still a lot, but it's certainly not the crazy numbers people have quoted that is necessary to be competitive in MMORPGs.

WoW's overemphasis of mods has diluted the skill element, but the very best players at MMORPG are just as out of reach for the average joe as the very best players of any competitive genre. Yes the very best players also tend to have the very best gear which makes it doubly harder to compete against them, but I've seen plenty of people with uber gear that still sucks. And even for a game like WoW where half of everything can be automated, the good players I've ran into are still a lot better than others with the same gear.