The Other Worlds Shrine

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  • Mega Man ZX reviews

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.

 #100816  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:23 am
Seems fairly good, anything over 8.0 on IGN is usually a good buy. Sometimes they rank games that I like particularly low, such as Shadow Hearts on PS2, they gave it a 5.7 I think, and I liked it as much as many of their 8.5s.

 #100817  by Don
 Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:08 pm
I played it a bit on the non-functional DS emulator and it seems the same as MMZ with upgraded engine/graphics, though it seems a lot like a 'stay tuned and see what happens in the next game' like MMZ2.

 #100818  by Zeus
 Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:14 pm
As long as the game's fun to play, I don't mind if it doesn't completely end. It's not an RPG, it doesn't have to have a very detail, epic storyline with a great ending.

I'm more interested to see how the Metroid-like free-roaming will work in a series that has always been a straight platformer.

 #100831  by Don
 Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:07 pm
It's because you got people who absolutely don't care about the story you've stuff like X being the last boss of MMZ scratched out months before the game goes live and creating all kinds of holes in the story. From the Z series there is clearly an effort to tell some kind of story but it gets interrupted due to lack of time, content, or changes to appease fanbase (i.e. X getting killed by Zero would probably alienate some of the fans). Seeing that they're clearly trying to tell a story, I'd rather there be some kind of closure.

I think you're neglecting the fact that MMZ after its 4 games made you learn who the characters are. I talked to Alouette maybe once in the 4 games I played for the Z series, but I do know who she is when you run into her in MMZX. The fact that Alouette leads the Guardian Base means they're clearly trying to establish some kind of continuity. You're in a world where Alouette continues to lead the legacy started by Ciel and Zero, except the most important question, i.e. whatever happened to Ciel and Zero, is unanswered until the next game (hopefully). It's no different in how the Zero series never resolved the Dark Elf arc, and now in ZX it looks like the Ciel arc won't be resolved until the 2nd game, if at all (like how did she not die after more than a hundred years...)

 #100855  by Zeus
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:28 am
Eric wrote:Yeah.....I love how this game just decided to magically come out. O_o I didn't even know it was ready.

http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product_id=180199
Capcom is weird that way. They announce the big titles, but the others just come out. They're great at hitting their release dates, but if the sites don't pick on the shipment and announce it, you'd never know

 #100857  by Zeus
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:33 am
Don Wang wrote:It's because you got people who absolutely don't care about the story you've stuff like X being the last boss of MMZ scratched out months before the game goes live and creating all kinds of holes in the story. From the Z series there is clearly an effort to tell some kind of story but it gets interrupted due to lack of time, content, or changes to appease fanbase (i.e. X getting killed by Zero would probably alienate some of the fans). Seeing that they're clearly trying to tell a story, I'd rather there be some kind of closure.

I think you're neglecting the fact that MMZ after its 4 games made you learn who the characters are. I talked to Alouette maybe once in the 4 games I played for the Z series, but I do know who she is when you run into her in MMZX. The fact that Alouette leads the Guardian Base means they're clearly trying to establish some kind of continuity. You're in a world where Alouette continues to lead the legacy started by Ciel and Zero, except the most important question, i.e. whatever happened to Ciel and Zero, is unanswered until the next game (hopefully). It's no different in how the Zero series never resolved the Dark Elf arc, and now in ZX it looks like the Ciel arc won't be resolved until the 2nd game, if at all (like how did she not die after more than a hundred years...)
As much as I enjoyed the continuity between the games, the story was more there to help the game progress than being central to the game. Even in Mega Man Maverick Hunter X, the story was great and it was nice to have the cutscenes and unlockable film to flush the background story out more, but it also didn't really end things. But that didn't matter, it was the fact that the game was great. We know the story's going on and that there'll be a sequel, so we can see where the story ends up. Since it's not really central to the enjoyment of the game (it played extremely well), it didn't really detract from the experience for me.

 #100860  by Kupek
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:52 am
Don Wang wrote:It's because you got people who absolutely don't care about the story
It's Mega Man. The story exists as an excuse for the gameplay. You're the only person I know of who places this much value in the story for Mega Man games.

 #100870  by Zeus
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:58 am
bovine wrote:It was actually in stores on the release date here..... which never happens.... ever.
It's getting better and better up here in terms of actually meeting the scheduled US release dates. A lot of companies (Capcom is great for that)often ship a day or two in advance, this is how you get street date broken on things like console launches.

The Wii and PS3 launches should be the same day up here, which means we'll be seeing reports of broken street dates in the US

 #100872  by Don
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:39 pm
Kupek, I assume you don't even play the later Mega Man series. If you read the interview to the creator of the MMZ series they sat out to tell a pretty cool story. The story became an excuse for gameplay when you bow down to fan pressure and take a story that's meant for one game and stretch it out to 4 (MMZ4 doesn't even pretend it has a purpose in the Z series). The MMX series still plays more or less the same ever since about MMX4 (even MMZ series plays similar to MMX series, just you don't have X) but there's a reason why MMX4 is widely regarded as the best game in the MMX series because there is actually meaningful conflict as opposed to every other game where the plot is an excuse for gameplay. And when you sell out your game to make more money, it makes the game less enjoyable for those who care.

Phantom is supposed to be gone forever because the whole thing is supposed to last one game. Instead he comes back in MMZ3 because people wanted him back. X is supposed to be the enemy, but that would only work for one game so instead you get Copy X (and Copy X Mk 2). The identity of the Dark Elf ("when she was first born she had another name...") was never revealed because doing so would mean you can now know the identity of the Reploid who would eventually stop Sigma for good, which means they wouldn't be able to milk the X series anymore. It's same as even though there are strong indications that it was Zero who killed everyone in the original Megaman universe, they can never say that because that'd mean they can't ever go back to make more Megaman games if they chose to.

And now you have Alouette, who for all practical purposes is Ciel's Reploid daughter, whose presence in the MMZ series is so strong that you can pick this up from never even talking to her, telling you that 'big sister has been missing for hundreds of years', as if Ciel, the first human being to have any presence and impact in the Megaman universe, is supposed to be fine hiding in a cave after being missing for hundreds of years (there's no indication that the humans of Megaman universe live any longer than normal humans, unless you're sentenced to live forever, like Weil, but that's supposed to be a bad thing).

Not all games require closure, but certain elements dictate the closure of the game. If Alouette is around, then something has to have happened to Ciel if she's not around because the two are so closely related. It'd be like having Zero in MMZ series and X never being mentioned and simply missing. If sometime between MMZ and MMZX Alouette and Ciel got blown to smithereens and they excavated the Live Metals that look awfully a lot like Zero, X, and the 4 Guardians, then you can at least say well no one around Zero series is anymore so we don't have to worry about where these things come from. But Alouette, whose presence in MMZ is at least as strong as the Guardians, demands closure from the Zero series with her central presence in the ZX series so far.

 #100874  by Kupek
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:14 pm
No, I haven't played a Mega Man game in a long time because, uh, I played Mega Man 2, Mega Man 3, Mega Man X, and I dabbled in Mega Man 7. Games like that are all about the game play for me, and it hasn't changed much for over a decade.

I am, however, actually interested in ZX because it's Mega Man Metroidvania (to borrow Parish's term). That sounds like fun. I like games that focus on exploring as opposed to just clearing stages.

I was perhaps too glib to say that the story is an "excuse for gameplay." It's probably more fair and accurate to say that the focus of these games is the gameplay, not the story.

 #100875  by Julius Seeker
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:26 pm
I always used the term Castletroid for the later Castlevania games =P

 #100876  by Don
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:41 pm
Everything in ZX indeeds looks very cool. My only complaint is that they have a strong tiein to Zero series but end up using the plot as an excuse for gameplay. Alouette's position in the Zero series is so central it'd be if the next regular Megaman game has Roll but not Megaman and they don't tell you what happened to Megaman. Obviously if you never played the Zero series, you'd have no idea who Alouette is so it'd stand on its own fine, but it's not right for those who do played the Zero series.

I don't agree with Parish's assessment on the 'one world thing' not working in Z1 so I don't think it's anything particularly new to the series. Then again, I'm pretty sure Parish didn't actually beat Z1 (I know he complained a lot on the difficulty, which is quite justified) let alone have time to explore it since Z1 levels were designed for action gaming gods or people playing it on emulators, so exploring is pretty limited for mere mortals/non cheaters. Once you're done with a stage you never want to see any part of it that contains pits or spikes again so it's not a surprise no one explored the world.

 #100877  by Kupek
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:50 pm
Don Wang wrote:Once you're done with a stage you never want to see any part of it that contains pits or spikes again so it's not a surprise no one explored the world.
A defining characteristic of Metroidvania games is that you <i>have</i> to explore the world in order to advance. If you could linearly progress through Z1, then I would say it's different than ZX.

 #100878  by Don
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:41 pm
I can't imagine a Megaman game without the '8 stages and 8 bosses' deal. I always thought when they say ZX has one big world, it'd be like Z1 where you select to teleport to stage 1, which represents 1 corner of the of the world map, and you've a linear path through that stage with a boss at the end. Later, you could go back there and poke around if you wanted to. Anyway, that's how worked in Z1 which I thought worked well other than the fact that only the insane would ever come back to a stage after you're done with it due to its difficulty.

There has always been stuff to explore since about X1 of the Megaman series, but they're never central to progressing throug the game beyond a difficulty point of view (it can be very hard to beat anything without the appropriate powerups).

 #100879  by Julius Seeker
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:11 pm
People have their preferences. When they first announced that they were doing this sort of thing with Castlevania 2, I was kind of excited, but I was very let down. Castlevania 3 more than made up for it. They tried it again 10 years later with Symphony of the night, and a lot of people really liked it, though most of those people were people unfamiliar with the series (and could have been Metroid fans). I have found that most who were fans of the older games in the series, prefer the stages formula over the Metroid one.

Who knows? Had I played Symphony of the Night first, I could have enjoyed it more. Lately Castlevania games seem to have declined in areas which used to be fundamentals, one such complaint I have is difficulty. The introduction of an exp system is a very lazy way of avouiding players complaining about difficulty balance issues: if it is too hard, just get 20 level ups, and it becomes simple. I really despise this in Castlevania, I wish they would remove it, or at least have a non-exp option so we can play through the games at the intended difficulty (unfortunately, traditional style modes are rarely included, and usually not well implemented).

I am not sure if Megaman has an exp system or not. Though if it doesn't, just imagine how much you would dislike having one added, and then you know where I am coming from with the Castlevania series =P

 #100882  by Zeus
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:44 pm
Don Wang wrote:I can't imagine a Megaman game without the '8 stages and 8 bosses' deal. I always thought when they say ZX has one big world, it'd be like Z1 where you select to teleport to stage 1, which represents 1 corner of the of the world map, and you've a linear path through that stage with a boss at the end. Later, you could go back there and poke around if you wanted to. Anyway, that's how worked in Z1 which I thought worked well other than the fact that only the insane would ever come back to a stage after you're done with it due to its difficulty.

There has always been stuff to explore since about X1 of the Megaman series, but they're never central to progressing throug the game beyond a difficulty point of view (it can be very hard to beat anything without the appropriate powerups).
But isn't this one supposed to be different, where the bosses are in unlockable areas of a larger map once you achieve certain powerups, like Metroid? If so, it'll really be nothing like the old games. Yes you could go back to each level and explore them, but that would be like saying the New Super Mario Bros is a lot like Metroid. It's not, you can just go back and try to get some extra stuff, just like in Mega Man

Maybe they feel they can't do much more with the side-scrolling and since Castlevania and to a smaller extent Metriod seems to have thrives with this formula, this is the only way we're going to see Mega Man platformers (other than remakes, of course) from now on? I hope not, but it may be it....unless Zero 5 is in the making.....

 #100885  by Don
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:06 pm
Megaman series since X series always have power ups that makes things easier. However from the Z series using the powerups (called Elves) totally trashes your mission rating and you won't see any of the EX attack attacks from the bosses or learn the EX skills if your rating is below A. This effectively means you can have the game remind you that you suck and go through the game with equivalent of only Megaman's mega buster the whole time, or you can develop some super action gaming skills (or use an emulator) instead.

 #100886  by Don
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:13 pm
The problem with Megaman games is you run out of stages before you run out of content because it's a tradition to have 8 stages and nothing too important could possibly happen in them, but you can't exactly have another 8 stages after the first 8. Z3 is probably the most content-packed but then it deviates from the norm with the 4-3-1-4-1 set up (it can be argued one way or another whether Under Arcadia is part of the last stage sequence). For a Megaman game, it's also pretty packed with content given that nothing important can ever happen in one of the generic 8 stages. I think if the game makers want to tell the story they wanted to tell in the Zero series, they'd need a RPG or at least some kind of biggish world not limited to 8 stages like Castlevania. That is easier said than done, though.

 #100891  by Kupek
 Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:40 pm
The first game I ever owned was Castlevania III. I was obsessed with Castlevania back in the day. And when I played SotN for the first time, I loved it. Seeker, I think you're underestimating how popular the Casltevania series was before SotN.

Jeremy Parish has some good retrospectives on the Metroidvania format:
http://www.toastyfrog.com/toastywiki/in ... troidvania

 #100895  by Eric
 Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:23 am
Were the Japanese voices removed from the US Version or what? Is there any voice acting at all?

And I too Kupek, enjoy the plot in Megaman games....the Z series is the best of the bunch in that respect >_<

 #100901  by Zeus
 Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:19 am
Kupek wrote:The first game I ever owned was Castlevania III. I was obsessed with Castlevania back in the day. And when I played SotN for the first time, I loved it. Seeker, I think you're underestimating how popular the Casltevania series was before SotN.
Oh yeah, back in the day, Castlevania was huge on the NES. Most didn't like 2 (I did) and 3 brought them back in droves. When 4 hit the SNES, it was maybe the most successful launch title after Mario and F-Zero. Then we waited FOREVER and got Dracula X, which was a mini-sized game. Not bad, but after 3 and 4 it was like getting FF7 after FF6, just a huge disappointment.

For sure Symphony brought it back again, but man, they've been big since the first one came out in 1987

 #100907  by Kupek
 Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:41 am
bovine wrote:is someone in love with jeremy parish??? kupek?
I've been reading his website for years. He is an excellent writer (in general), and easily the best videogame writer I've read.

He also happens to be obsessed with the topic at hand.

 #100908  by Kupek
 Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:44 am
The SNES Dracula X was an afterthought. I consider the progression of US release of Castlevania games to go from CV4 to SotN, skipping Dracula X entirely. It was a bastardization of the PC Engine version, which is supposed to be an excellent game, and very much a precursor to SotN.

 #100912  by Zeus
 Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:49 am
Kupek wrote:The SNES Dracula X was an afterthought. I consider the progression of US release of Castlevania games to go from CV4 to SotN, skipping Dracula X entirely. It was a bastardization of the PC Engine version, which is supposed to be an excellent game, and very much a precursor to SotN.
Oh, the Turbo CD game was freakin' excellent, as good as any before it. Dracula X was a mere shadow of that game. And the storyline is a direct prequel to SotN. And excellent transition game from 4 to SotN. They've gotta put that on the Virtual Console so people can actually play it. Same with Panzer Saga if they ever get the Saturn emulator on there.

If you have a PC Engine emulator and really want to play it, I can try and rip it from either the copy or the original I have (not much protection on the Sega CD and Turbo CD). You'll need to ensure it's Duo compatible or at least System Card 3.0 compatible. And you'll have to help me figure out the best way to rip it as well, I'm not very good at those things.

 #100914  by Don
 Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:18 pm
They got rid of the voice acting in the English version (probably did the same thing in Z4 when Ciel narrated the opening), which is why there shouldn't be any reason for this game to get delayed!

 #100995  by Eric
 Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:15 am
Yeah this game is freakin awesome, best Megaman yet

I found it funny they called it the M.E.G.A. System, when you clearly hear the Japanese voices say R.O.C.K. System lol.