The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • Xenosaga Episode III thoughts, EDIT: Game Finished - AMAZING

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #101227  by Julius Seeker
 Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:13 am
Well, I have written some information about it already, now it is time to go into a little more detail.

First thing first: Before you play this game, it is IMPORTANT to play Xenogears on PSX first. There is A LOT in the third chapter of Xenosaga that links to Xenogears, and it makes the game much more interesting to have the foresight. The other two Xenosaga games are important too, but not so much for story links, but for characters, the reason being is that story from the previous XS games is all covered in this one. This game isn't just loosely hinted at like the previous two episodes, these are very solid and strong links to Xenogears.

The Encyclopedia makes a return: my largest dissapointment with the second game in the series is that it lacked an encyclopedia. It makes a return in this game and is MUCH better this time around, it is much easier to navigate as it tells you when updates are made, and where those updates are. It also has it spearated into categories: people, places, events, history, culture, etc... Or the traditional Xenosaga 1 method can be used.

Battle system: it is much simplified from the second game, though the gear battles remain the same, and is more complex than the non-gear battle system. Attacks are now just standard RPG style, attack, magic, and such, there are no longer tactics involved. Also, the battles are MUCH easier than they were in the second game. It is similar to the simplicity of the first game, only without the massively long animations and load times. The battle system rests between episode 1 and 2, it is not as simple as episode 1, but not as complex as episode 2. I should also note that it is a very solid system, more so than any of the games in the series to date (Xenogears and Xenosaga 1 and 2).

Gameplay: is much like the second one rather than the first. The first game had huge multi-hour long blocks of dungeon crawling, then story, and everything seemed to move very slowly. The second one ran much more smoothly, the third one continues in the style of the second one, but actually improves, it feels even smoother this time around. Dungeons are also not Quest 64 style, as the first game, but much more interactive like the second game.

Towns: Towns are FAR bigger in this game than the previous ones, there is certainly a lot more civilian related locations in this game, many more people to talk to. Space stations, etc.... I like it. The game is on a MUCH larger scale than the previous ones.

Music: I really enjoy the music style of this game, there is a lot of piano style tunes in the game, it gives it a very '1800's Europe in the distant future' feel to it. Which is what they were probably aiming for the whole time.

I will have more updates as I play a little longer. So far, I have very much enjoyed the game. I should mention, the price was right. You can be like Zeus and hope it drops to 30 bucks at the end of the year (which probably will not happen), or you can spend $44.99 and get it now. It is a very reasonably priced game as far as RPGs go. I highly recommend it, it is a very polished off game which takes everything that worked from the previous one. It is also very fun, anyone who enjoyed Xenogears will love this one, if only based for finding out the history of the world of Xenogears, and finding out what it all meant.
Last edited by Julius Seeker on Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

 #101237  by Julius Seeker
 Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:29 pm
Summary of the story set-up
WARNING: Spoilers for the first 5-6 hours below. including Xenogears links....


Shortly after the game begins the characters arrive on the Federation Capital of 5th Jerusalem. There are a few major objects which appear within Xenogears that exist within this location.

First of all, orbitting the planet is the gigantic anti-Gnosis weapon the Merkabah. For those who played Xenogears, this was the weapon portion of the Elderidge, and also the final dungeon of the game. Of course, it is implied that this station was designed for other objectives.

The next is a Gear of unrivalled power, it is powered by a certain device linked to the Zohar which allows its energy output. This weapon was developed to fight the human enemies of the Federation, Ormus in particular. The device is actually a young boy, who is the third item: Abel.

Abel made a successful contact with the Zohar, the power of the Zohar flows through him. He is considered one of the most vital pieces of the Zohar project.

Ormus has been taken over by a new leader, Heinlein, whose face has not been revealed yet. He weilds great authority and seems to be much more powerful than the previous Patriarch. There are clues to his identity left throughout the game; but at this point, not even Margulis knows who he is.

Shion has left Vector after she discovered that Vector had a great deal to do with the Gnosis attacks. Without saying too much, it is currently thought that a human by the name of Grimoire Verum was responsible for Gnosis attacking major cities on Federation planets.

 #101254  by Julius Seeker
 Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:11 pm
Alright, I fought the toughest boss battle yet, and it killed me, and I was trying. I am still on the first DVD, so the game is not all easy. The last two boss battles I won on my first try, but I did almost die. It looks like I am finally going to have to use my extra skill points to get past this fight.


WARNING: Minor spoiler below,

If you remember Virgil from the first game, the guy who hated Realians with a sick passion. This game has a fairly emotional and dramatic sequence that shows why that is; and personally, I feel it is the most dramatic point of the entire Xeno-series, it was very well done. Virgil is a very interesting villain in this series; particualrly in the first and third games. As things are going, this could very well be the game that surpasses Xenogears.

 #101270  by Julius Seeker
 Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:35 am
MAJOR SPOILER:

Alright, the giant Gear (Omega) that Abel pilots just changed into something that VERY much resembles the Xenogears/God Gear, and now I am fighting it. The battle is taking place onboard Abel's Ark which has been transformed by the Zohar.
Last edited by Julius Seeker on Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

 #101388  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:40 am
Alright, I have finished the game. I'll write a review later, this game is certainly worth it. This game also has the best ending of any videogame I have ever seen! This is the only other ending I have seen that is on the level of Final Fantasy 8. The ending, from the death of the final boss onward, was about 50 minutes long.

Mini Spoiler below (moderate spoiler if you have not played Xenogears):






The game explains the reasons why humans must seek Lost Jerusalem. For those who have played Xenogears, it is known that Lost Jerusalem is released, this is what happens at the end of Xenosaga Episode 3. Also, the entire UMN has been taken down, which means no more "warp travel" and no more "subspace communication." The only way people are able to travel now is by conventional methods. The capital of Fifth Jerusalem still has Abel's Ark and the Merkaba orbitting. What happens from here to link up Xenosaga to Xenogears Episode 2 (The crash of the Eldridge) is not too difficult to speculate on.

 #101391  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:33 am
MAJOR SPOILERS ON THE ENDING BELOW:




The ending explains the transmigration from Xenogears as well. It explains Citan Uzuki, and it is now obvious that Fei and Elly are Abel and Nephilim. Though how Chaos ties into Xenogears is not yet known. Wilhelm is the ultimate villain, he is not really evil, but he is misguided, a lot like Krelian from Xenogears. Though it is even still unsure as to whether Wilhelm really was misguided, for if he succeded, then things might have been fine with the Universe. I suppose, in Xenogears, the Universe is set to balance again, once U-Do/Wave Existence is set free from its prison.
Last edited by Julius Seeker on Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:32 am, edited 5 times in total.

 #101499  by SineSwiper
 Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:33 pm
Poor Seeker. Why the hell are you the only one who really enjoys this series? Instead, people are talking about fucking Dragon Quest or some other fantasy land bullshit. Jesus f-ing Christ, I'm S-I-C-K to D-E-A-T-H of fantasy RPGs! (Including Guild Wars' shitty storyline, but I don't play it for the story.)

So, yeah, I've been awaiting the last chapter in Xenosaga. Finally, a RPG that has an intensely complex storyline, to which story is a primary focus, and a sci-fi backdrop with many, many inventive ideas.

Quick comments:
  • I noticed that they hired a bunch of decent voice actors, since there's a lot of voice work here. I recongize both the Major (Doctus, hallway voice) and Batou (Ziggy and others) from Ghost in the Shell.
  • I'm kinda disappointed that they remove the excellent battle system of the 2nd one. I really really loved that one, and I wished that it was in here. It made the battles more complex and involved. Now, it's just the button mashing scene that you see in most RPGs. There's not even any combos any more.
  • Man, are they trying to get the fanboys raving or something? What the hell is with the over-the-top skimpy outfits? Is the Vector team that much of horndogs to redress KOS-MOS in a swimsuit like that?
  • I like the new database, but jesus, that's a lot of material to go over. Every time they give me a database update, I'm like "Hey, I haven't even skimmed the surface of the last update!"
  • How come I get the feeling that we're missing a Xenosaga 2.5 somewhere? From 1 to 2, there was no time at all past. From 2 to 3, a year has passed, and there's a lot of stuff that they are trying to fill the gaps for.
BTW, I tried to play Xenogears again, because the last time I played it was about 8-10 years ago. But, my used copy I got has a deep stratch in it, and the game won't go any further. I'll need to grab another copy.

Yeah, and I'm skipping a lot of your messages here, because you have a bunch of spoilers and I'm only just now on the Elsa. Can't you make those grey or something?[/list]

 #101542  by Julius Seeker
 Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:56 am
Hmmmmm, I am not entirely sure of the right color grey, and I am in a bit of a rush right now. Perhaps introducing a spoiler feature? There are spoilers right up to the end of the game in a few of my posts. Anyways, I won't post anymore from here on out.

I agree completely on the battle system, I also preferred the one in the second game to this one. This game I died three times I think, and I only had trouble on a couple more battles, this game is certaintly a lot easier than the second one; though, there don't seem to be 10 times more than too many worthless battles like the first one either. The main reason why they simplified the battle system is because many players complauined that the second one was too difficult; gamers nowadays don't like to be challenged in any aspect, particularly something that requires thinking beyond what gamefaqs.com can offer them easily (I.E. basic directions).

I love the series, I think I'll play through it again in the next couple of years. The first game I will probably be looking forward to the least, but there were some fun parts in it. One other positive thing about the second is that it is possible to go back through all the dialogue scenes in the entire game; you can see every cutscene, no matter how minor, and there are "play all" options as well.

As for the bunch of story that is missing, they go over enough of it through the game in order for the story to make sense in the third game. All of the history and such is recorded in the encyclopedia (which I still haven't read all through). There were some side-games released in Japan, such as one which centered around Ziggie taking place about 100 years ago (though that story is covered fairly sufficiently over all three games). The largest plot issue was a character called Citrine, she had been cut from the first two games but was re-introduced in the DS versions and Xenosaga Episode 3 seems to assume the plot of the DS games. Fortunately, just by looking at some of the history and a few of the encyclopedia logs (such as the one titled "citrine") it is very easy to catch up in a few minutes. There isn't too much like this, and it's not even essential to know Citrine's background, just something that can be done out of interest.

I'll post more later.

 #101561  by Don
 Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:23 am
SineSwiper wrote:Poor Seeker. Why the hell are you the only one who really enjoys this series? Instead, people are talking about fucking Dragon Quest or some other fantasy land bullshit. Jesus f-ing Christ, I'm S-I-C-K to D-E-A-T-H of fantasy RPGs! (Including Guild Wars' shitty storyline, but I don't play it for the story.)
I don't really see how it's any different if instead of casting 'fire 1' with MP you use 'flamethrower' with Tech Point or Weapon Point or whatever you want to call it. Instead of fantasy town 1 you got technology city 1 (not like we don't have a whole mess of those in Final Fantasies already).

Instead, I'd like to see a game where technology is vastly different from magic. Something like SaGa Frontier 2, where Gustav's steel units are just massively overpowering compared to any magical elemental units, and you truly appreciate how powerful steel is when you command magic units against them. I want a world like Fate, where Gun Magis are infinitely more powerful than the elemental Magis, but the Magi world clings on to their elements and spells because they refuse to be assimilated by technology. In short, I want a game where technology is actually drastically different from magic, instead of just another way to do the same thing.

 #101616  by SineSwiper
 Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:49 pm
Don Wang wrote:I don't really see how it's any different if instead of casting 'fire 1' with MP you use 'flamethrower' with Tech Point or Weapon Point or whatever you want to call it. Instead of fantasy town 1 you got technology city 1 (not like we don't have a whole mess of those in Final Fantasies already).

Instead, I'd like to see a game where technology is vastly different from magic. Something like SaGa Frontier 2, where Gustav's steel units are just massively overpowering compared to any magical elemental units, and you truly appreciate how powerful steel is when you command magic units against them. I want a world like Fate, where Gun Magis are infinitely more powerful than the elemental Magis, but the Magi world clings on to their elements and spells because they refuse to be assimilated by technology. In short, I want a game where technology is actually drastically different from magic, instead of just another way to do the same thing.
Well, I'm not really referring to the gameplay, but story. All fantasy RPG (neh, all fantasy stories period) have this plot:

A reluctant boy with a destiny is forced to defend his homeland from a terrible evil.

If not that exact plot, then it's pretty damn close. With any FF plot, add "and defeat god" to the end of it.

At least with sci-fi, the design and technology is different in each story. The worlds of fantasy is medieval with magic, and the same old boring BS. Hey, there's elves and dwarves and trolls, oh my!

There are some exceptions of fantasy plots that are actually good, like FFT, but you just wish that the backdrop was something else than the shit you've seen before.

 #101622  by Don
 Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:05 am
How is this different from say, Star Ocean where there's just a terrible evil that's out to destroy your planet instead of just your tiny village? Xenosaga has plenty to deal with Godlike entites out to do things to the universe that you wouldn't want to happen.

Fantasy doesn't inherently imply a stereotypical plot.

 #101630  by Julius Seeker
 Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:35 am
Depends on the writer, Matsuno (FFT), for example, always does a great job. Tetsuya Takehashi could probably do a great Fantasy RPG as well. Fantasy and Science fiction are essentially the same thing anyways, they are both sub-genres of speculative fiction.

 #101635  by Don
 Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:55 pm
On the subject of the reluctant heroes, I find that to be usually a Square thing, but even in Square games there are willingly heroes. But it will always be an unlikely hero, because people who are supposed to be saving the world never do their job.

 #101865  by SineSwiper
 Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:04 pm
*** SPOILERS ***

I just finished the game as well, and I noticed various ties to Xenogears. Lemme see if I can get them right:

* Citan is Jin's will, even with the same last name.
* Fei is Abel and Elly is Nephilim.
* Did you notice that Abel's Ark (with the Zohars) looks a lot like Deus in the final battle?
* KOS-MOS is Emeralda? It's been so long that I'm not sure.
* Is Shion a part of Xenogears? It seems like the post-clearing database indicates this.
* There's also links with Anima and Animus, but again, it's been so long.
* What about the first scene in Xenogears? Who's the Captain? I was expecting to see him somewhere in Xenosaga. I know there are 100-series Realians in that one, too.
* I almost thought the Durandal was going to be that ship in the first scene, but I guess not.


There's a lot of ties to the bible, too. I still don't know exactly who Wilhelm is. He's not Jesus, and I don't think he's the devil. Gabriel?

 #101883  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:30 am
Message below:

To explain the story, and how it unfolded. Essentially the remnents of the human race, now without their warp technology, are attempting to find Lost Jerusalem in order to save the Universe. It seems that Fifth Jerusalem is the location by which the Elderidge (from the beginning of Xenogears) was launched for two reasons, Abel's Ark and Merkaba were left orbitting that planet. Abel's Ark and Merkaba merged into one thing during a scene. According to Perfect Works, Abel's Ark and Merkaba were both parts of the Elderidge; parts that Krelian was attempting to ressurect (according to Xenogears Episode 5, which is the game). The Elderidge, according to Xenogears Episode 1, was sent to rescue survivors from the Planet Michtam incident where it picked up Deus.

After picking up Deus, there was an attack on the ship of unknown origin, but what had been seen is that Deus had activated and taken over the ship. The captain set it to self destruct. Xenogears uses the scientology explanation that human souls all arrived from outerspace by ship a long time ago; the human sould on the Elderidge were trapped on the Xenogears planet for 10,000 years until Krellian attempted to free them (using Abel's Ark).

Merkaba and Abel's Ark, in both games
Omega = Xenogears
Abel = Abel/Fei
Nephilim = Elly
Jin = Citan

 #101889  by Don
 Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:18 am
I'd like to say that Xenosaga is one of the most human-centered games ever, putting Earth smack at absolute universal coordinates of 0,0,0, proving that Earth is indeed the center of the universe and the Church was right after all.

 #101901  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:49 pm
I consider Xenosaga to be a truth not to be disputed.

 #102005  by SineSwiper
 Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:33 pm
Maybe we should get together and write a Plot Analysis FAQ that covers Xenosaga, Xenogears, and Perfect Works?

 #102272  by SineSwiper
 Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:11 pm
Other connections. I'm going to jot these down as a play XG. Again, I'd like to write a FAQ on this.

* Omega Universitas / Id = Weltall
* MOMO's Gear = Elly's Gear
* Bart seems to be called "Little Master" a lot. He might be Jr's will, but I have no proof of that.
* Grafh's gear might be ES Joseph. I'll need to study it a bit closer.
* I have no idea what that "devil" gear is with the large wings (that saves Elly in Kelsev). Don't remember it from Xenosaga.
* I remember the last time I played that one of the gears still works at the end of XG. This one may be a re-built ES Asher, but I'm not sure.

I'll need to compare some of the other gears to see if there are any close matches.

 #102278  by Julius Seeker
 Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:54 pm
Other connections. I'm going to jot these down as a play XG. Again, I'd like to write a FAQ on this.

* Omega Universitas / Id = Weltall
* MOMO's Gear = Elly's Gear
* Bart seems to be called "Little Master" a lot. He might be Jr's will, but I have no proof of that.

I actually really like this idea, I hadn't thought about it. I think you might be right on this. It would make sense, particularly considering Bart also has a bit of a western theme behind him like Junior does.

* Grafh's gear might be ES Joseph. I'll need to study it a bit closer.

Grahf's gear is called Alpha Weltall in Xenogears; I believe.


* I have no idea what that "devil" gear is with the large wings (that saves Elly in Kelsev). Don't remember it from Xenosaga.

That would be Id's gear.


* I remember the last time I played that one of the gears still works at the end of XG. This one may be a re-built ES Asher, but I'm not sure.

That is the Xenogears/God Gear which has striking resemblence to Omega. Also shares the same function as Omega.