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Fantasy/Technology mix
- Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
No matter how you try to spin it, it is an irrefutable FACT that FF6 was a game which used a Fantasy/technology mix. A poll isn't going to prove anything except what % of people here at the Shrine are either ignorant about FF6, extremely unobservant (to the point where I would question their intelligence), or just simply plain stupid. There is no other explanation.
"Long ago, the War of the Magi reduced the world to a scorched wasteland, and Magic simply ceased to exist. 1000 years have passed... Iron, gunpowder and steam engines have been rediscovered, and high technology reigns. But there are those who would enslave the world by reviving the dread destructive power known as "Magic". Can it be that those in power are on the verge of repeating a senseless and deadly mistake?"
"Long ago, the War of the Magi reduced the world to a scorched wasteland, and Magic simply ceased to exist. 1000 years have passed... Iron, gunpowder and steam engines have been rediscovered, and high technology reigns. But there are those who would enslave the world by reviving the dread destructive power known as "Magic". Can it be that those in power are on the verge of repeating a senseless and deadly mistake?"
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I think FF7 felt like it had a more prevalent technological base because it was able to be showcased better with pretty graphics. It just stood out more.
I agree that FF6 had a strong mix of technology and fantasy, but it felt like the technology was more crude than what was presented in FF7. Again, this can partially be chalked up to graphics, because, well, the graphics were also more crude.
As far as what I felt when I played FF7 and FF6, FF7 seemed to have more of a high-tech feel with shiny tech and science, where FF6 had technology that felt like unexplained voodoo (as in big massive mechanical "things" such as Figaro Castle and Magiteck armour).
But if I look at what the poll asks, which one was the FIRST mix of fantasy and technology, I have to say FF6. It might not have felt like it to the degree that FF7 did, but FF6 still did it first.
Edit: also look at the airships in the two games. Compare the Highwind in FF7 to to the Blackjack/Falchon in FF6. Which seems more "High-Tech"?
I agree that FF6 had a strong mix of technology and fantasy, but it felt like the technology was more crude than what was presented in FF7. Again, this can partially be chalked up to graphics, because, well, the graphics were also more crude.
As far as what I felt when I played FF7 and FF6, FF7 seemed to have more of a high-tech feel with shiny tech and science, where FF6 had technology that felt like unexplained voodoo (as in big massive mechanical "things" such as Figaro Castle and Magiteck armour).
But if I look at what the poll asks, which one was the FIRST mix of fantasy and technology, I have to say FF6. It might not have felt like it to the degree that FF7 did, but FF6 still did it first.
Edit: also look at the airships in the two games. Compare the Highwind in FF7 to to the Blackjack/Falchon in FF6. Which seems more "High-Tech"?
Flip asked, however, which <i>felt</i> like the first. When I played FF7, it felt like a departure from pure fantasy to a fantasy/sci-fi mix. FF6 had technology (yes, Seeker, thank you, you can stop pointing this out, we get it), but the technology didn't feel as advanced, and not as prevalent or central to the story.
If you didn't "feel" that FF6 was a "mix of fantasy/technology," then either you are either: ignorant on the subject of FF6, completely oblivious to the content of the game, or just plain stupid. Seriously, saying FF6 did not have that mix is a ridiculous argument.Flip wrote:I think the feel of the game to the average gamer (us) is what is most important.
FF6 still felt like fantasy while FF7 took that step toward futuristic fantasy that cotinued with FF8, 10, Spirits Within, etc.
It is not possible for a normal functioning human being to go through Final Fantasy 6 and completely miss the mix of technology and fantasy mix within that game. It is the central theme of the World of Balance plotline of the game. It spells it out quite clearly.
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Not to back Seek here as his comments weren't appropriate (no personal attacks, man, it's just a debate; ie. calling people "stupid" is a personal attack), but Kupek put it properly. Yes, there was technology, but it wasn't prevalent, which I think it what you were trying to get at. Seek just sees you guys as sayin' "FF7 was the first one that FELT like technology" as meaning "FF6 didn't have technology", which is not what you're pointing out at all.Flip wrote:Well, so far you are in the minority, so... dont know what to tell ya, brah.
A lot of this has to do with the opening cities IMO. Midgar was more new-age industrial whereas the FF6 town felt like 19th century industrial. So, even though it had a lot of tech in it (the opening scene with the mechs was a dead giveaway), it didn't really feel like it. The graphics, level more than style, had a big influence on that as well.
I was there on that fateful day, were you?
Doubtful, I would not put it past you to create accounts on this site just to boost scores on a poll. There were several accounts created in the last 24 hours. I don't think there are 5 people on this website who would actually feel there is no technology/fantasy mix in FF6.Flip wrote:Well, so far you are in the minority, so... dont know what to tell ya, brah.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious. How about I second part of this statement and instead add: stop with the ridiculous arguments.Kupek wrote:Seeker, we're not teenagers anymore. Stop the petty attacks.
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Von Karma wrote:Doubtful, I would not put it past you to create accounts on this site just to boost scores on a dumb poll. There were several accounts created in the last 24 hours. I don't think there are 5 people on this website who would actually feel there is no technology/fantasy mix in FF6.Flip wrote:Well, so far you are in the minority, so... dont know what to tell ya, brah.
In reply to Zeus.
The argument was originally that Flip made the statement that Final Fantasy 7 was the first game in the series to use a technology/fantasy mix. I essentially argued that the statement is very obviously false. I have offered plenty of evidence to support my argument; including a statement from the game that essentially describes the world as technologically advanced. If indeed Final Fantasy 7 was the first game to use a technology/fantasy mix, then logic would dictate that no Final Fantasy game before it had this mix; which is quite obviously, irrefutably, false. What kind of person would argue against irrefutable proof?
As far as making an attempt to twist words around, I do not see those arguments as relevent because that is not what I am arguing against.
The argument was originally that Flip made the statement that Final Fantasy 7 was the first game in the series to use a technology/fantasy mix. I essentially argued that the statement is very obviously false. I have offered plenty of evidence to support my argument; including a statement from the game that essentially describes the world as technologically advanced. If indeed Final Fantasy 7 was the first game to use a technology/fantasy mix, then logic would dictate that no Final Fantasy game before it had this mix; which is quite obviously, irrefutably, false. What kind of person would argue against irrefutable proof?
As far as making an attempt to twist words around, I do not see those arguments as relevent because that is not what I am arguing against.
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You stated it correctly in the Ivalice thread, the existance of technology in Final Fantasy has been around since FF1. I didnt argue that. I was trying to argue that FF7 was the first to really put it out there and i was right.Von Karma wrote:In reply to Zeus.
The argument was originally that Flip made the statement that Final Fantasy 7 was the first game in the series to use a technology/fantasy mix. I essentially argued that the statement is very obviously false. I have offered plenty of evidence to support my argument; including a statement from the game that essentially describes the world as technologically advanced. If indeed Final Fantasy 7 was the first game to use a technology/fantasy mix, then logic would dictate that no Final Fantasy game before it had this mix; which is quite obviously, irrefutably, false. What kind of person would argue against irrefutable proof?
As far as making an attempt to twist words around, I do not see those arguments as relevent because that is not what I am arguing against.
Voted for FFVII for the reasons mentioned. To put it simply, FFVI felt like primitive technology in a fantasy setting, whereas FFVII felt more like fantasy in a modern setting. Otherwise, we might as well have voted for FFIV, which had a hovercraft, tanks, and a whole fleet of airships. And, oh yes, a spaceship that goes to the moon.
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I am not arguing against a statement like "FF7 was the first to really put it out there" as it does not really mean anything; it is far too vague a statement. I am arguing against the statement that FF7 was the first game to use a fantasy/technology mix.Flip wrote:You stated it correctly in the Ivalice thread, the existance of technology in Final Fantasy has been around since FF1. I didnt argue that. I was trying to argue that FF7 was the first to really put it out there and i was right.
I'll apologise for my use of the word "stupid." I just couldn't think of a better word at the time to describe how I saw people who could fail to see the fantasy technology mix in either of the videos I posted or in the opening paragraph of the game.
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ME
YOU in direct response:
The emphasis on REALLY shows i acknowledge that the past games had tech, but it wasnt the same.Everyone agrees that FF7 was the first to REALLY incorporate technology to take the franchise to a new fantasy/sci-fi level that wasnt there in the previous games, do you disagree with that?
YOU in direct response:
So, you actually did argue against that "FF7 was the first to put it out there". *shrug*Actually I don't see anyone saying that at all, except you.
Those two statements do not equal each other.Flip wrote:METhe emphasis on REALLY shows i acknowledge that the past games had tech, but it wasnt the same.Everyone agrees that FF7 was the first to REALLY incorporate technology to take the franchise to a new fantasy/sci-fi level that wasnt there in the previous games, do you disagree with that?
YOU in direct response:So, you actually did argue against that "FF7 was the first to put it out there". *shrug*Actually I don't see anyone saying that at all, except you.
One statement essentially says: Everyone agrees that in reality FF7 was the first game to incorporate technology to take the game to a new level that wasn't there in previous games.
First of all, not everyone agrees with the statement. Second of all, technology in FF4 took the series to a level greater than previous games, then FF6 did the same thing later on, FF7 still later on, and FF8 after that.
The second statement says: FF7 was the first to put it out there
I was not arguing against that statement. FF7 was the first to put what out there? Technology? No, it was not, FF1 was the first to put technology out there. The Sky Fortress was the first technology "put out there."
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I'm going to stop arguing now, we've taken this fairly trivial point way too far. Like usual =P
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