VIVA

[bovine]

I've been on the 360 more and more lately and I've beaten gears, gotten frustrated with Dead Rising, put Oblivion on hold, started getting interested in GRAW..... but the most exciting thing is that I just can't stop playing Viva Pinata. It's very much in the vein of Animal Crossing and Harvest Moon.... also I hear that it's a lot like Dungeon Keeper.... even though I've never played the game myself. Anyways, if you were thinking about getting it or trying it, or not even thinking about it at all, it's a great game.

[kali o.]

I've been on the 360 more and more lately and I've beaten gears, gotten frustrated with Dead Rising, put Oblivion on hold, started getting interested in GRAW..... but the most exciting thing is that I just can't stop playing Viva Pinata. It's very much in the vein of Animal Crossing and Harvest Moon.... also I hear that it's a lot like Dungeon Keeper.... even though I've never played the game myself. Anyways, if you were thinking about getting it or trying it, or not even thinking about it at all, it's a great game.

Alot like Dungeon Keeper? That's probably the most absurd comparison i've ever heard....I don't know who told you that, but they are obviously on crack.

That said, I didn't like Viva. It's a good game that I could undertsand why people would like - but it had too many flaws for me (mainly the restrictions on size of the garden, items and pinatas...which completely ran counter to the complexity found later ingame). I'd suggest people rent it first to see what they think.

[Julius Seeker]

The way I see it, it is a Rare game, so I am always willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Though Rare is really falling apart now, the two remaining founders left the company recently. I just hope this doesn't effect Banjo Kazooie which in my opinion will very likely be the must have game for me on Xbox 360.

[Blotus]

Come on, Seeker. Every review I've read likens it to Animal Crossing or Harvest Moon or both. If this was on the Wii you'd shit your pants with glee!

[Zeus]

Come on, Seeker. Every review I've read likens it to Animal Crossing or Harvest Moon or both. If this was on the Wii you'd shit your pants with glee!

It's definetely supposed to be good, but the fact of the matter remains that Rare is now a has-been developer. Microsoft tried as heck to push them with PDZ, but that was a putrid game (I got it for free and I won't touch it). They've done nothing since the N64 days worth mentioning, which is what I think Seek is referring to rather than the good/bad aspects of Viva itself

[Blotus]

I've got it too and have not played it yet. I'm sure it won't be putrid but having recently played Gears and Zelda, my standards are in the clouds.

[Julius Seeker]

Come on, Seeker. Every review I've read likens it to Animal Crossing or Harvest Moon or both. If this was on the Wii you'd shit your pants with glee!

On the contrary, the only conceivable time I would shit my pants is while incredibly drunk, and something terrified my, and I really had to go. But yeah, as Zeus said, I was commenting on how Rare has really fallen apart, similar to what has happened to Square recently as well.

[Zeus]

I've got it too and have not played it yet. I'm sure it won't be putrid but having recently played Gears and Zelda, my standards are in the clouds.

It's putrid. I adored the original (I thought it was an improvement over Goldeneye in every way) and was looking forward to this one. It sucks.....hard. It's a chore to play; bad controls. The story isn't very good. The first level was just bad.

It's a huge disappointment

[bovine]

I've got it too and have not played it yet. I'm sure it won't be putrid but having recently played Gears and Zelda, my standards are in the clouds.

It's putrid. I adored the original (I thought it was an improvement over Goldeneye in every way) and was looking forward to this one. It sucks.....hard. It's a chore to play; bad controls. The story isn't very good. The first level was just bad.

It's a huge disappointment

what? are we talking about perfect dark now?

[Zeus]

yes

[kali o.]

Come on, Seeker. Every review I've read likens it to Animal Crossing or Harvest Moon or both. If this was on the Wii you'd shit your pants with glee!

It's definetely supposed to be good, but the fact of the matter remains that Rare is now a has-been developer. Microsoft tried as heck to push them with PDZ, but that was a putrid game (I got it for free and I won't touch it). They've done nothing since the N64 days worth mentioning, which is what I think Seek is referring to rather than the good/bad aspects of Viva itself

Rare was never "great", just the selection of good EXCLUSIVE games has been so for shit on Nintendo systems the last few gens, that Nintendo fans built them up to mythic preportions. That's the solid truth on the matter.

That said, they are a quality developer. PDZ was a rush-to-launch fiasco (ie: blame MGS) and Kameo is an underated game that is perhaps their best work to date.

Money is on Seeker not even having played any of Rares latest games. Fucking Nintendo fans are batshit crazy, I'm convinced of it.

[Zeus]

Come on, Seeker. Every review I've read likens it to Animal Crossing or Harvest Moon or both. If this was on the Wii you'd shit your pants with glee!

It's definetely supposed to be good, but the fact of the matter remains that Rare is now a has-been developer. Microsoft tried as heck to push them with PDZ, but that was a putrid game (I got it for free and I won't touch it). They've done nothing since the N64 days worth mentioning, which is what I think Seek is referring to rather than the good/bad aspects of Viva itself

Rare was never "great", just the selection of good EXCLUSIVE games has been so for shit on Nintendo systems the last few gens, that Nintendo fans built them up to mythic preportions. That's the solid truth on the matter.

That said, they are a quality developer. PDZ was a rush-to-launch fiasco (ie: blame MGS) and Kameo is an underated game that is perhaps their best work to date.

Money is on Seeker not even having played any of Rares latest games. Fucking Nintendo fans are batshit crazy, I'm convinced of it.

Rare made some of the best stuff in the N64-PSX-Saturn era, period.

[kali o.]

Rare made some of the best stuff in the N64-PSX-Saturn era, period.

You are full of shit. In the same vien that Nintendo fans build up F5 or Retro solely because there was nothing else on the GC (RS was average at best).

What's your comparitives? The ever mentioned GE007, that is always viewed through rose-coloured glasses? DK 64? Maybe you mean Mickeys Speedway?

The solid truth of the matter is Nintendo fans have always falsely inflated Rare games, period. Nothing from their past equals the technical excellence they achieved with Kameo. They are better today than they ever were...and your only arguement to the contrary is an admittedly rushed launch game named PDZ.

[bovine]

What's your comparitives? The ever mentioned GE007, that is always viewed through rose-coloured glasses? DK 64? Maybe you mean Mickeys Speedway?

I agree that Goldeneye and Perfect Dark have not aged well, but they were certainly stellar games for their time. The inclusion of bots in PD was tremendous! I didn't know that they were the makers of Mickey's Speedway, but Diddy Kong Racing was AMAZING! and that game has aged well, I did not play the n64 version of Conker's Bad Fur Day, but I hear that it was pretty awesome (the XBox offering was a little buggy, but it looked amazing) and I did not play DK for the N64, and have really heard nothing about it. So yeah, PD and Goldeneye were kinda shitty in retrospect, it was no real renaissance for Rare.... I'll give you that.

[Zeus]

You are full of shit. In the same vien that Nintendo fans build up F5 or Retro solely because there was nothing else on the GC (RS was average at best).

What's your comparitives? The ever mentioned GE007, that is always viewed through rose-coloured glasses? DK 64? Maybe you mean Mickeys Speedway?

The solid truth of the matter is Nintendo fans have always falsely inflated Rare games, period. Nothing from their past equals the technical excellence they achieved with Kameo. They are better today than they ever were...and your only arguement to the contrary is an admittedly rushed launch game named PDZ.

Blast Corps, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark (better than Goldeneye IMO), Diddy Kong Racing (as a single player game)...these were all incredible games and many were at the top of their genres on consoles at that time. Conker was an excellent parody of 3D platformers and Banjo Kazooie, even with its bad camera, was one of the few platformers that could even be talked about in the same breath as Mario 64 (there weren't many decent 3D platformers back then, so it wasn't much of a contest, but BK was still a good game with a very bad camera).

If you're doubting the importance of Goldeneye not only to Nintendo, but to console FPSs and to console multiplayer in general, you're far more biased than anyone you're accusing. We're not talking about personal preference here. It's no secret I dislike FF7, but I would never on any doubt discount its importance or the technical level of the game at that time. That's just silly.

GE changed FPSs, period. It not only made it a viable multiplayer format on consoles, which was not seen before that, it brought social gaming on consoles to the forefront. It was a VERY important game at the time. It also was extremely well done in both the single and multiplayer aspects, that's what made it popular in the first place.

All games have to be judged at the time they're released. Super Mario Bros at the time was fucking spectacular yet it seems to be very simplistic with simplistic graphics and controls nowadays. But even you can't doubt the importance or quality of that one. Goldeneye was one of those games in a generation that stands out far and above the others. There are only three or four each gen, including FF7 from that generation or Halo from the previous generation.

Rare didn't make its name in the N64 days from only Nintendo fanboys. There were computer gamers coming to my store who were looking for a used N64 with Goldeneye and 4 controllers just to play it. They earned their keep through continous excellent quality. Sure they had some mediocre games like Jet Force Gemini or DK64, but they created very high quality, fun-ass games back then in general. That's what made them popular.

This is why everyone looks at what they've done in the newly dead generation and say "what the fuck?". Star Fox Adventures, It's Mr. Pants, Saber Wulf, Grabbed by the Goulies....man, MAYBE you could consider one of these games decent...maybe. When you look at what they did on the N64, it's like they're a completely different developer. Then you look at the 360 and you get one good game (Viva), one mediocre game (Kameo), and a hugely disappointing sequel to maybe it's best game (PDZ). This is why people have said they suck now versus then. It's 'cause they do.

I owned all of the systems at the time and played the vast majority of the popular games. Unlike you, I actually have a comparison point. You've always disliked Nintendo and use your bias to discount ANYTHING related to them. Then, anyone who dares to be a fan of something they do then defends your ridiculous, baseless arguments and attacks you slam.

Just admit you're a hater, period. You don't have to explain why you constantly slam them, you just do. Fine. But don't go around insulting those who actually try shit and then develop an opinion rather than vice versa.

[kali o.]

Blast Corps, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark (better than Goldeneye IMO), Diddy Kong Racing (as a single player game)...these were all incredible games and many were at the top of their genres on consoles at that time. Conker was an excellent parody of 3D platformers and Banjo Kazooie, even with its bad camera, was one of the few platformers that could even be talked about in the same breath as Mario 64 (there weren't many decent 3D platformers back then, so it wasn't much of a contest, but BK was still a good game with a very bad camera).

If you're doubting the importance of Goldeneye not only to Nintendo, but to console FPSs and to console multiplayer in general, you're far more biased than anyone you're accusing. We're not talking about personal preference here. It's no secret I dislike FF7, but I would never on any doubt discount its importance or the technical level of the game at that time. That's just silly.

GE changed FPSs, period. It not only made it a viable multiplayer format on consoles, which was not seen before that, it brought social gaming on consoles to the forefront. It was a VERY important game at the time. It also was extremely well done in both the single and multiplayer aspects, that's what made it popular in the first place.

All games have to be judged at the time they're released. Super Mario Bros at the time was fucking spectacular yet it seems to be very simplistic with simplistic graphics and controls nowadays. But even you can't doubt the importance or quality of that one. Goldeneye was one of those games in a generation that stands out far and above the others. There are only three or four each gen, including FF7 from that generation or Halo from the previous generation.

Rare didn't make its name in the N64 days from only Nintendo fanboys. There were computer gamers coming to my store who were looking for a used N64 with Goldeneye and 4 controllers just to play it. They earned their keep through continous excellent quality. Sure they had some mediocre games like Jet Force Gemini or DK64, but they created very high quality, fun-ass games back then in general. That's what made them popular.

This is why everyone looks at what they've done in the newly dead generation and say "what the fuck?". Star Fox Adventures, It's Mr. Pants, Saber Wulf, Grabbed by the Goulies....man, MAYBE you could consider one of these games decent...maybe. When you look at what they did on the N64, it's like they're a completely different developer. Then you look at the 360 and you get one good game (Viva), one mediocre game (Kameo), and a hugely disappointing sequel to maybe it's best game (PDZ). This is why people have said they suck now versus then. It's 'cause they do.

I owned all of the systems at the time and played the vast majority of the popular games. Unlike you, I actually have a comparison point. You've always disliked Nintendo and use your bias to discount ANYTHING related to them. Then, anyone who dares to be a fan of something they do then defends your ridiculous, baseless arguments and attacks you slam.

Just admit you're a hater, period. You don't have to explain why you constantly slam them, you just do. Fine. But don't go around insulting those who actually try shit and then develop an opinion rather than vice versa.

Writing more paragraphs doesn't make you less full of shit, it just hurts my eyes.

I'm not gonna bother breaking down everything you said, because frankly, it's a putrid pile of hyberbole and melodrama, but I'll make a few points:

- The games you mentioned were never "the tops of their genre", they were part of the slim pickings on a barren console - like I already said. Overhyped. And yes, I played them plenty.

- GE is nowhere near the importance you seem to imply, in fact, it was a medicore game that only shined (in addition to the N64 having no games) because previous console FPS offerings were so pathetic by comparison. Doom was important. Quake was important. Half-Life was important. BF1942 will be remembered as important, even if EA runs in into the ground. GoldenEye was never so - except to Nintendo fans.

- Kameo was mediocre? PDZ was a disappointment? Viva is good? Nowhere near the "golden years" of 2nd party to Nintendo. Nice solid opinions you've formed... I also notice you happen to have exactly ZERO gamer points for any of em. So keep flaunting your tendency to 'form opinions based on playing games, unlike me' so I can continue to choke on the healthy mixture of hypocricy and laughter (thank god for gamertags, MIRITE!?!). [and I'll remind you that my original LIVE tag is in limbo]

You can accuse me of all the Nintendo-bias you like, but you'd be mostly wrong. Either way, this has nothing to do with me pointing out the ever continuing idiocy of most Nintendo-fans, who generally rag on the post-Nintendo Rare without having played any of the new games and remember the old ones with 100x the undeserved hype and bullshit they already had at release (proven you, and I'm betting Seeker).

And I'll end on this, if not for Rare games, what AAA titles would you remember from the N64? A handful of Ninendo first party games. Starvation makes a cracker look gourmet.

[kali o.]

I agree that Goldeneye and Perfect Dark have not aged well, but they were certainly stellar games for their time. The inclusion of bots in PD was tremendous! I didn't know that they were the makers of Mickey's Speedway, but Diddy Kong Racing was AMAZING! and that game has aged well, I did not play the n64 version of Conker's Bad Fur Day, but I hear that it was pretty awesome (the XBox offering was a little buggy, but it looked amazing) and I did not play DK for the N64, and have really heard nothing about it. So yeah, PD and Goldeneye were kinda shitty in retrospect, it was no real renaissance for Rare.... I'll give you that.

My point was peoples bias, nothing more. Rare is a good developer, they had mostly hits and a few misses. They never really "pushed the envelope", even on their recent games (only technical achievements they deserve credit for is DKC, but they can thank Nintendo for that mostly. Maybe Kameo, though less so for gameplay than utilizing hardware at launch).

Nintendo fans will try to remember them as some mythic and legendary developer who shat gold on the console world...and now they are just plain shit.

Pure garbage.

[Julius Seeker]

Kali, you're on drugs, Goldeneye was easily the most popular game, period, on any system, for years. Whether they were Nintendo fans or not, it was one of those games that tons of people loved to play; and most people in our age category played a lot of Goldeneye in their time.


Also, you talk as though Rare as though they just sprung up to develop for the N64. Their top selling game (which sold 10 million) was Donkey Kong Country, released in 1994 for the SNES. they were one of the top developers in the world since the NES days which includes the newer Donkey Kong series which has sold over 40 million copies; and that was mainly on SNES. Battletoads to this day is one of the most highly praised sidescrollers available, and it was on NES. They actually developed about a hundred games for the NES. They were always one of the most successful developers in the industry right up until near when Microsoft took over, and most of the talent left. Microsoft spent hundreds of millions of dollars on them, considerably more than what Square was worth (based on the Sony and Enix share purchases); though Rare is not going to make much money for Microsoft now, I'm afraid.

The bottom line is Rare was well liked because they were releasing games that people loved to play.

By the way, Doom and Quake were two of the crappiest games ever developed, and Goldeneye outsold all Doom, Half Life, and Quake games combined. As for how highly Goldeneye ranks in the minds of critics and gamers alike, just type in "Top 100 games ever" in Google and see for yourself, it ranks in at least the top 15 for every reputable site and list; for example, it ranks as #7 on IGN's reader's list for 2006. It also ranks #5 on Gamerankings, no Doom or Quake games make it high on any of these lists, Halflife occaisionally does.

[kali o.]

Kali, you're on drugs, Goldeneye was easily the most popular game, period, on any system, for years. Whether they were Nintendo fans or not, it was one of those games that tons of people loved to play; and most people in our age category played a lot of Goldeneye in their time.


Also, you talk as though Rare as though they just sprung up to develop for the N64. Their top selling game (which sold 10 million) was Donkey Kong Country, released in 1994 for the SNES. they were one of the top developers in the world since the NES days which includes the newer Donkey Kong series which has sold over 40 million copies; and that was mainly on SNES. Battletoads to this day is one of the most highly praised sidescrollers available, and it was on NES. They actually developed about a hundred games for the NES. They were always one of the most successful developers in the industry right up until near when Microsoft took over, and most of the talent left. Microsoft spent hundreds of millions of dollars on them, considerably more than what Square was worth (based on the Sony and Enix share purchases); though Rare is not going to make much money for Microsoft now, I'm afraid.

The bottom line is Rare was well liked because they were releasing games that people loved to play.

By the way, Doom and Quake were two of the crappiest games ever developed, and Goldeneye outsold all Doom, Half Life, and Quake games combined. As for how highly Goldeneye ranks in the minds of critics and gamers alike, just type in "Top 100 games ever" in Google and see for yourself, it ranks in at least the top 15 for every reputable site and list; for example, it ranks as #7 on IGN's reader's list for 2006. It also ranks #5 on Gamerankings, no Doom or Quake games make it high on any of these lists, Halflife occaisionally does.

I love how I'm talking about Rare always inflated from Nintendo days because they were the only real non-Nintendo support, then you go on to tell me "nuh uh - so and so was more popular and sold more". You sure showed me.

Furthermore, Rare never recieved half the acclaim they do for their NES games (which you overestimated by at least 2x, many of those games stinkers) until after DKC and particularly during the N64 drought.

And finally, I have no idea whether Doom or Quake were outsold by GE (or played by a larger audience) because really, I don't care and it's meaningless. If your contention is that GE was more influencial, better made, etc than Quake/Doom, you are dumb, end of story.

Seeker, the whole "debate" here is whether Rare has 'lost it's magic'. You say they have...they are "falling apart". So tell me, unlike zeus, why don't you show me your gamertag that reflects all that hands on experience you have for PDZ/Kameo/Viva? Oh, even if you did have such a legitmate excuse, it wouldn't disprove my standpoint...but the fact that you DO NOT lends just a little more support to my theory that Nintendo fans are fucking insane and babble on about shit they have no clue about.

PS - Here's the caption for the IGN GoldenEye review:

GoldenEye is the type of game N64 owners have been waiting for since they finished Mario 64.

Perfect. Say it with me...."mmmmmm, crackers!"

[Zeus]

I agree that Goldeneye and Perfect Dark have not aged well, but they were certainly stellar games for their time. The inclusion of bots in PD was tremendous! I didn't know that they were the makers of Mickey's Speedway, but Diddy Kong Racing was AMAZING! and that game has aged well, I did not play the n64 version of Conker's Bad Fur Day, but I hear that it was pretty awesome (the XBox offering was a little buggy, but it looked amazing) and I did not play DK for the N64, and have really heard nothing about it. So yeah, PD and Goldeneye were kinda shitty in retrospect, it was no real renaissance for Rare.... I'll give you that.

My point was peoples bias, nothing more. Rare is a good developer, they had mostly hits and a few misses. They never really "pushed the envelope", even on their recent games (only technical achievements they deserve credit for is DKC, but they can thank Nintendo for that mostly. Maybe Kameo, though less so for gameplay than utilizing hardware at launch).

Nintendo fans will try to remember them as some mythic and legendary developer who shat gold on the console world...and now they are just plain shit.

Pure garbage.

I would prove you wrong, dead wrong, with links and facts, but it's not worth my effort. You could be drowning in evidence contrary to what you've said and you'd still deny it. No real reason to continue this conversation.

But if you're going to get online soon to play GoW, let me know. I'll have my Xbox 360 back in a couple of weeks (hopefully) and I'm sure there'll be a lot of people back playing the game that I know. We could get some kick-ass matches going. That goes for everyone else here as well. It would be fun to have a bunch of the Shrines play against each other. I could get Gray as well.

[Julius Seeker]

I love how I'm talking about Rare always inflated from Nintendo days because they were the only real non-Nintendo support, then you go on to tell me "nuh uh - so and so was more popular and sold more". You sure showed me.

Fact, they were one of the top developers in the world at the time, it wouldn't matter which system they developed for if their games were the same as they were on SNES and N64. Goldeneye was more highly praised universally than any of the games of its time period.

Furthermore, Rare never recieved half the acclaim they do for their NES games (which you overestimated by at least 2x, many of those games stinkers) until after DKC and particularly during the N64 drought.

They were recognized as one of the the top videogame developer on the planet during the late SNES days through to the late 90's. The point is, they had a lot of high profile games during the NES days as well; and lots of games.

And finally, I have no idea whether Doom or Quake were outsold by GE (or played by a larger audience) because really, I don't care and it's meaningless. If your contention is that GE was more influencial, better made, etc than Quake/Doom, you are dumb, end of story.

Whether you don't care or not, it is completely relavent, you can look up the numbers in Wikipedia or VGcharts. As for quality, I have played Doom and Quake, they are two of the absolute worst, most boring games I have ever had the disatisfaction of playing. What did either of them really establish that Wolfenstein 3D had not already established? Goldeneye is recognized as one of the best games of all time by most reputable sources (such as IGN, AIAS, and Gamespot), Doom and Quake are not, this is FACT. The only time where I have even heard Doom considered among the best is by some dead psychopathic loser from the trench coat mafia.

But for the record, if Doom and Quake were indeed better games than Goldeneye, then why was it that Doom and Quake on the N64, with vastly upgraded graphics and gameplay, utterly failed? The answer is that they were incredibly outclassed by Goldeneye, no one grave a crap about Doom or Quake, those two games blew.

Seeker, the whole "debate" here is whether Rare has 'lost it's magic'. You say they have...they are "falling apart". So tell me, unlike zeus, why don't you show me your gamertag that reflects all that hands on experience you have for PDZ/Kameo/Viva? Oh, even if you did have such a legitmate excuse, it wouldn't disprove my standpoint...but the fact that you DO NOT lends just a little more support to my theory that Nintendo fans are fucking insane and babble on about shit they have no clue about.

Kameo = http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/516505.asp
Viva = http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/ ... asp?q=Viva
Perfect Dark 0 = http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/ ... ect%20Dark

For other titles, you don't need to search them out, just look in the alltime top 20: http://www.gamerankings.com/itemranking ... atings.asp

PS - Here's the caption for the IGN GoldenEye review:

GoldenEye is the type of game N64 owners have been waiting for since they finished Mario 64.

Perfect. Say it with me...."mmmmmm, crackers!"

....Do you want a cookie or something?

[kali o.]

I would prove you wrong, dead wrong, with links and facts, but it's not worth my effort. You could be drowning in evidence contrary to what you've said and you'd still deny it. No real reason to continue this conversation.

But if you're going to get online soon to play GoW, let me know. I'll have my Xbox 360 back in a couple of weeks (hopefully) and I'm sure there'll be a lot of people back playing the game that I know. We could get some kick-ass matches going. That goes for everyone else here as well. It would be fun to have a bunch of the Shrines play against each other. I could get Gray as well.

No you couldn't, you'd just sound silly like Seeker (I actually had a bet with myself internally on how long it would take Seeker to pipe up with a gamerankings link).

To the other thing, you bet. I historically suck at console FPS's though, so get your shit talk ready.

[Julius Seeker]

You have proven nothing. Your statement was that Rare's success of the past was more of a fabrication of gamers who bought Nintendo systems. Said that it was because there was no competition on N64.

To reproduce what has been said: Bullshit, how can you deny something so obvious?

The DKC series was their first highly successful series, and any company that was anything (minus Sega and Namco) was developing games for the same system; Rare came out on top in the late SNES era. Rare was already one of the biggest name and critically acclaimed developers in the world by the time the N64 was released.

Goldeneye was/is recognized universally, by gamers (still ranks in the top 10 on best game of all time polls, and is one of the best selling games of all time), developers (AIAS game of the year 1997), and critics (check out all the magazines and websites that gave it game of the year) alike as being one of the best games ever.

The current Rare has lost most of its key developers and figureheads. As Rare lost these people, the quality of their games went down. They once brought out megahit after megahit, saw critical acclaim, developer acclaim, and massive sales success; today they see none of these. If this is not strong enough evidence that they have steeply declined then what do you think of the current British Imperial power?

[kali o.]

- Seeker claims Rare is "declining" and "falling apart". Seeker posts a gamerankings link to the 3 newest Rare games, all 80% +. Seeker has not played any new Rare games. Kali laughs at Seeker. Kali knows had Viva or Kameo been release on the Wii, they would be heralded as the 2nd coming of christ.

- Seeker spouts off about popularity and acclaim (fanbase and critical). Seeker figures that will somehow counter Kali's assertion that all the "acclaim" was falsely inflated by simple lack of comparison and choice on a dying console. Kali shakes his head and laughs again.

- Seeker supports Kali's claim that Rare hype did not begin till post DKC (but more specifically, took great flight during the N64 with DKC being the rallying cry). Kali thanks Seeker and agrees.

- Seeker asserts Rare shat consistent gold (Kali likes this phrase) during it's pre-MS period. Kali chuckles at this claim and suggests Seeker looks a little more closely at Rare's release list spanning all the way back to...1995?

- Kali decides talking in the 3rd person is pretty gay and vows to stop.

[Zeus]

No you couldn't, you'd just sound silly like Seeker (I actually had a bet with myself internally on how long it would take Seeker to pipe up with a gamerankings link).

To the other thing, you bet. I historically suck at console FPS's though, so get your shit talk ready.

yes I could, you just wouldn't listen regardless of how much evidence I put in front of you. This is why I won't bother.

Make no mistake about it, this game is not a traditiona FPS in any way. I'm not good at console FPSs either but I'm decent at GoW

[bovine]

I am also willing to play..... but I haven't even joined a live match on any of my games yet.... I have a large period of anxiety before I begin gaming online. I don't want to suck really bad, but I'll certainly suck really bad if you fellows are willing to play.

[Blotus]

Just play some unranked games to get the feel for it. If the host won't let you join COG (means he's waiting for friends) and/or your teammates aren't speaking, leave the game. Get some friends on your list and play with them often if you want to be good. Communicate! Playing with randoms vs. a team of friends is suicide.

I should take my own advice. I still suck. Then again, I haven't played online in weeks (loaned the game to somebody).

[Zeus]

I am also willing to play..... but I haven't even joined a live match on any of my games yet.... I have a large period of anxiety before I begin gaming online. I don't want to suck really bad, but I'll certainly suck really bad if you fellows are willing to play.

We'll do unranked games by invitation only. It'll only be Shriners