Relationships and Money...

[Tessian]

Alright, I'm looking for advice here cause this is all new to me.

I've been dating the most fantastic girl for the past 2 months. We instantly connected and she's the first girl I've been able to say I love.

That being said...she has major financial issues right now. Her hours got cut back at her job for the past 2 months because of seasonal downtime and she tried to get a 2nd job but that fell through and now no one's hiring. She needs a license and a car by May or she loses her transportation to work (grandparents moving to Florida). She is barely making enough right now to pay bills let alone save up for a car.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the only way to get her out of this mess is to loan her money for a car. Bank loan isn't possible as she has no one to cosign (I don't have enough credit yet to, and her parents won't lift a finger for her). Hopefully looking to find a car ~$5k or less, something that'll last maybe a year. I have the money to loan her, but the question is how do we do it correctly so that I don't get burned and this doesn't hurt our relationship? She's the best thing to happen to me in 3 years and I don't want to jeapordize that. I assume there's a way we can legally write it out so it's binding and all, regardless of what happens to us in the future. How hard is that to set up? Who sets it up?

Any ideas, suggestions, or claims I'm insane?

[Nev]

I actually financially took care of my last girlfriend for awhile.

She was homeless when I met her...but only just recently. Had been for two weeks. She'd been through unbelievable shit.

The relationship didn't end well, but I've never regretted taking care of her, and she didn't end up back on the streets after we parted ways, so maybe I did some good there.

I might suggest though...if you really love this girl, consider making the money a gift instead of a loan. My experience is that financial gifts rarely come between people, but financial obligations often do. Something to think about.

[Tessian]

I might suggest though...if you really love this girl, consider making the money a gift instead of a loan. My experience is that financial gifts rarely come between people, but financial obligations often do. Something to think about.

I understand what you're saying and agree...the problem is I myself just got out of college less than a year ago. I can afford to loan her a few grand, but I can't really afford to give it away...

I've paid for EVERYTHING for the past 2 months (gas, tolls, dinners, etc) and I have no problem with that. But a few thousand dollars is a lot of money for me right now and I'm trying to save up for my own place (currently living at home)...

I love her to death, but I have limits too.

[Lox]

I'll say this:

If you decide to lend her the money, definitely write up the contract and both of you sign it. I'm not sure how to make sure it's legally binding though. I don't care if you say you love her. I don't care if she says she loves you. In a year from now, you guys could feel totally different and she'll have a lot less incentive to pay you back if she has no attachment to you.

I tell you this because I got burned when I lent a girlfriend money and I never got it back. It was considerably less. I think she owed me around $300 when we broke up and she never even tried to pay it back even after I contacted her several times. We were both "in love", but that doesn't mean a lot later on when you're both not. Know what I mean?

So, do what feels right to you, but don't let your current infatuation interfere with your common sense. If you were rich, I'd tell you to not worry so much, but you can't really afford to screw yourself over.

[Eric]

I'll say this:

If you decide to lend her the money, definitely write up the contract and both of you sign it. I'm not sure how to make sure it's legally binding though. I don't care if you say you love her. I don't care if she says she loves you. In a year from now, you guys could feel totally different and she'll have a lot less incentive to pay you back if she has no attachment to you.

I tell you this because I got burned when I lent a girlfriend money and I never got it back. It was considerably less. I think she owed me around $300 when we broke up and she never even tried to pay it back even after I contacted her several times. We were both "in love", but that doesn't mean a lot later on when you're both not. Know what I mean?

So, do what feels right to you, but don't let your current infatuation interfere with your common sense. If you were rich, I'd tell you to not worry so much, but you can't really afford to screw yourself over.

Loxy K speaks the truth.

[Julius Seeker]

I can't put it any better than Lox did.

[Imakeholesinu]

Lox says it best. Write something up, and make sure when she gets approved she puts her current and next permanent address so they can track her down in case she turns out to just be riding you.

[Nev]

As a dissent to pretty much everyone else at the Shrine, I'm going to advise against this contract, actually.

There's a simple fact in residence here: she might not be able to pay you back within a timescale that makes your gift anything more than a donation. And I want to ask a question of Lox: do you really think a contract would have made her more able to pay anything in particular back to you? The answer might have been yes in your case - if she actually had the money and was just being flaky - but my experience with people having financial trouble is that they simply can't pay most debts back. They don't have the saving skills, the money, or the career advancement.

You might want to consider what happens if she can't pay you back. Are you going to take her to court? (Which in and of itself costs money, by the way, even for small claims.) And even if you do, consider that if you do actually take her to court, at that point you will almost certainly have already done her finances and future far more damage than if you'd never loaned her anything at all. Getting sued for nonpayment of a debt by a former boyfriend is usually not something that inspires confidence, either in oneself, or in other people who hear about it. Not to mention - do you really want to go through that nonsense? Court isn't fun, even a little bit, and it's not usually cheap in terms of time, money, or sanity.

Lox...as much as I usually respect you, think for a second if you'd had the contract and made her sign it, and she didn't want to or couldn't pay. There's no way on *earth* that you can use our legal system to recover sums as small as $300 without legal hassles or costs that make suing someone over that amount into complete lunacy. Step back from your emotions and just step through the actual process of trying to sue your former GF to recover that money for a second. Imagine filling out the documents, going to court, not to mention sitting in front of a judge trying to justify wasting docket time on recovering a sum that small.

I mean, I doubt you can even use our legal system to recover fifty grand without hassles and costs that mean that, even if you win, half the money is either gone or not worth it anyway. Signing a contract over three hundred bucks is just logic from the lunatic fringe.

Five grand is a little different - enough to *highly dubiously* take a look at suing her to get it back - but just remember, Tessian, if she's really that hard up, and you do sue her to get it back, she'd better end up with her family or in jail after that, because otherwise she'll end up on the streets. My girlfriend was on the streets when I met her, but she at least had her car to sleep in...and I spent more than one night up with her, her crying about the hell she'd been through, and it's much, much worse without one (as you've already mentioned your girl doesn't). You really trying to do that to her?

Give her the money, or don't. But don't set yourself up for that kind of pain. Take a second thought about sitting in a courthouse, trying to squeeze five grand out of a stone that used to be your girlfriend...and let me know what you decide.

That's what I say, anyway.

[Anarky]

I personally got burnt in one relationship where my girlfriend was not financially secure. Hell I even let her borrow my car since hers was having massive engine issues and was in the shop for a month. My friends said how big of a dumbass I was being, but hey I was "In Love".

I think she technically owes me around $1000 to this date for all the shit I helped with. But in the words of a Bronx Tale, maybe $1000 is not too bad to have someone like that out of your life for good. And mind you I was still in college during this relationship.

[Nev]

Surely our legal system is a model of wonder and efficiency, well-known for a lack of expenses accruing from its use, and thus making it particularly well-suited to recovering minor sums of money from former acquaintances, particularly ex-lovers. Said trials are known to be fairly rare occurrences, and the process of going through one is viewed as a badge of respect in our society.

...if you needed an alternate description of my point.

It's wonderful to think that signing the contract might make her more inclined to remember it and pay you, for fear of legal reprisal. Back in reality, however, if she's financially hard-up, she's gonna be paying food, electricity, and water first, rent if she has a chance, and you in 2015, unless you decide to bring legal action. Legal action is accompanied by all of the wonderful vacation spots I described above - assuming she doesn't just move across town or find some other way to vanish, which would really be the most likely possibility anyway.

[Lox]

In my case, the girl had the money to pay me back and was quite capable of doing so. She just didn't want to because there was no proof that I had lent her anything and she knew there was nothing I could do about it. If there had been some kind of written contract then I'm sure I would have gotten the money back.

I agree with you, Nev, that it probably wouldn't be worth the legal fees and court costs to recover $5000 even with proof. But the threat of suing and the ability to say "hey, I have it in writing to prove it" can sometimes be more than enough to give the other person the nudge they need to pay you back.

I still say write the agreement so there's no misunderstanding and so everyone is clear on the terms. Down the line, it's Tessian's decision what to do with it. If he lets it go then he's no worse off then if he hadn't had the paper to start.

[Nev]

It sounds like a different kind of situation to me. And I doubt that the kind of contract you're thinking of would be much of any kind of inducement to anyone. Most contracts written up without a lawyer have about as much binding legal force as the piece of toilet paper you just wiped your ass with, as I understand the process.

Honestly, man, I doubt it would have even protected your investment. A self-written contract over $300 isn't likely to be viewed by much of anyone as a binding reason to pay someone back unless they're excessively moral, if only for the reason that, not only is the process as nasty as I described, most people *know* it's as nasty as I described and will not be expecting you to particularly do anything about it if they renege, because only a lunatic would sue someone over three hundred bucks in our society. I really think you severely overestimate the ability of any kind of contract to act as an inducement to pay money back (and take a look at the number of people not paying it back, and the resulting number of court cases in our legal system, especially over sums like this, on Judge Judy in the afternoon every day on a TV station broadcasting near you, if you don't believe me).

If Tess is willing to loan her five grand as opposed to three hundred, it's a different situation entirely - sounds like she's in actual trouble as opposed to just being flaky, and obviously he cares about her enough to add an extra zero to the kinds of numbers we're talking about.

I don't even think a contract would have been a good idea in your situation, but for Tessian I think it would absolutely be likely to bring more hardship than help, to both of them...because if she can't or won't pay it back, he's setting himself up to feel an extra level of betrayal, and if she really is in trouble instead of just being flaky, and *does* want to pay the contract back but can't, it's already going to make her almost certainly fragile self-esteem at that point shatter even further, not to mention further wrecking her finances. This is all assuming she's not a career con artist or something, and if she is, *all* bets are off on this conversation.

The only way I could see a contract as any good is if she were a rich snobby daughter of the Hamptons Tessian were going out with who'd been temporarily cut off by the family and was asking to borrow money from him instead, and even then only because there's a good chance the family would pony up just to shut you up, but even in that circumstance the process of getting the money back seems like it would be dubiously worth the stress it would probably cause.

Anyway, hopefully my opinion has been sufficiently explained at this point. If not...the one-sentence summation is "I don't think a contract will help you get your money back in any decent way, but I do think it has a very good shot of driving a wedge between the two of you and causing some very stressful situations."

Good luck to you and your girl, Tessian, in whatever you do decide.

[SineSwiper]

Whatever happened to trust in relationships? Don't have her sign a contract. That's basically tells her where your trust ends. It doesn't matter if you've been burned once or burned a thousand times. You're supposed to fall into every relationship with complete trust of the person. Yes, there is a risk, but that is part of the relationship.

Of course, you're going to think that "oh, well, I might not get the money back, or we might break up", but that's just putting one foot in the door before you even broke up. Then at that point, you're either doomed for failure, or at the very least you end up in one of the goofy relationships where you have seperate bank accounts and are asking for each other's "part of the rent". For fuck's sake, you're not roommates!

[Lox]

Whatever happened to trust in relationships? Don't have her sign a contract. That's basically tells her where your trust ends. It doesn't matter if you've been burned once or burned a thousand times. You're supposed to fall into every relationship with complete trust of the person. Yes, there is a risk, but that is part of the relationship.

Eh...I disagree with some of that. Trust is important, I won't disagree there. But trust is something that's earned, not just handed out regardless of who it is. At least, that's my opinion. He's only been dating her for 2 months. No single person is going to earn $5000 worth of my trust in 2 months. Sorry.

Plus Tessian and this girl are both adults who should understand that this isn't something to be taken lightly. If she wouldn't understand that, then maybe she isn't mature to handle being lent $5000 by her boyfriend.

Tessian, it's your decision in the end. I'll respect whatever

choice you make, but this is what I think.

Honestly, man, I doubt it would have even protected your investment. A self-written contract over $300 isn't likely to be viewed by much of anyone as a binding reason to pay someone back unless they're excessively moral, if only for the reason that, not only is the process as nasty as I described, most people *know* it's as nasty as I described and will not be expecting you to particularly do anything about it if they renege, because only a lunatic would sue someone over three hundred bucks in our society.

This girl was rather...unintelligent, particularly in areas like this. I'm sure the contract would have been enough for her.

[Julius Seeker]

In my case, the girl had the money to pay me back and was quite capable of doing so. She just didn't want to because there was no proof that I had lent her anything and she knew there was nothing I could do about it. If there had been some kind of written contract then I'm sure I would have gotten the money back.

I agree with you, Nev, that it probably wouldn't be worth the legal fees and court costs to recover $5000 even with proof. But the threat of suing and the ability to say "hey, I have it in writing to prove it" can sometimes be more than enough to give the other person the nudge they need to pay you back.

I still say write the agreement so there's no misunderstanding and so everyone is clear on the terms. Down the line, it's Tessian's decision what to do with it. If he lets it go then he's no worse off then if he hadn't had the paper to start.

I am not entirely sure how it works in the US, in Canada small claims courts usually settle matters very quickly, by judge and often without lawyers even present. The maximum is 15K dollars, though I have no idea what it is in the US. Legal fees are not a huge deal, usually lawyers who take cases in small claims courts will go for as low as 50 dollars out of your pocket (since they don't really have to invest much time into it), but will often only take the case if they know they're going to win; they are not required. If you don't have any hired help, expect to do everything yourself, that would mean reading about regulations and procedures on your own and setting up your case on your own.

[Tessian]

wow, this is a bigger response than I expected

Everyone has a point-- I think the best is that you do get a legal contract, but as Lox said it's then up to me later whether to swallow the loss or sue her over it later...I think I'd be more worried about the "she can pay but we broke up so she said fuck you" event than anything. Because yes-- if she really couldn't pay me back I'm not going to destroy her for it. It's not a matter of trust Sine...well maybe it is, but either way I don't know anyone I'd give $5k to after knowing them for 2 months...even if they are a great lay

My dilemma right now is whether or not to do it...unless something amazing happens she'll definitely need money for a car come May. She's very against taking my money because she's terrified of ruining the relationship with it...but I don't know what other option she has. No one will cosign an auto loan for her...or can you get it without one? That runs into another problem though...at $9/hr for 30-40 hours/week..can she afford phone, rent, food, car payment, car insurance, and gas?

[Imakeholesinu]

wow, this is a bigger response than I expected

Everyone has a point-- I think the best is that you do get a legal contract, but as Lox said it's then up to me later whether to swallow the loss or sue her over it later...I think I'd be more worried about the "she can pay but we broke up so she said fuck you" event than anything. Because yes-- if she really couldn't pay me back I'm not going to destroy her for it. It's not a matter of trust Sine...well maybe it is, but either way I don't know anyone I'd give $5k to after knowing them for 2 months...even if they are a great lay

My dilemma right now is whether or not to do it...unless something amazing happens she'll definitely need money for a car come May. She's very against taking my money because she's terrified of ruining the relationship with it...but I don't know what other option she has. No one will cosign an auto loan for her...or can you get it without one? That runs into another problem though...at $9/hr for 30-40 hours/week..can she afford phone, rent, food, car payment, car insurance, and gas?

9 an hour? No. That's well below the poverty line. Hell I'm working two jobs and one pays 12 the other 5.15/hr. She needs to try and find a better line of work or ask for a raise if she can at her place of work to alleviate some of the financial burden you yourself may take on by signing this loan. Speaking of co-signers, how is her credit? If it's good then she shouldn't really need a co-signer at all if I'm correct. The only reason she would need a co-signer is when she 1) didn't have enough credit to show that she could fully pay the car off or 2) didn't have a reasonable enough wage to show that she could pay the car off in the period specified in the financing contractual period.

Assuming she has zero credit, it would reflect very poorly on your credit if she missed a few payments, but that is also assuming your credit is in good condition.

Quite honestly, financial setting aside, I think it's good to follow what you think is right more than your heart or the opinion of all of us here. If it feels right do it, if it doesn't don't. I believe since she's "amazing" she'll understand but she'll lean on you for transport. It's your call.

Have you thought of any other alternatives? Could you drive her? Public transit? etc. etc.

[Ishamael]

Don't do it.

[Tessian]

Don't do it.

Care to elaborate at all Ish?

and Barret-- She has no credit (turns 19 next month) and my credit is only starting to accumulate now that I have a car loan and school loans to pay off.

She lives 30 minutes away on a toll highway, no way I could drive her to work especially with me working full time. Public transportation doesn't really exist in suburbs either, at least not in PA if you're not close enough to Philly.

I know she needs a second job, and a car will help her do so. She wants to pursue a career in dog training/behavioralism but it's apparantly really hard to get into. People will be hiring in the next few months for related work, but it's right now that she really needs the money.

[Julius Seeker]

Is there a specific reason she lives where she does? For someone in her position it would perhaps be a lot cheaper to move to a location much closer, plus you'd probably only have to loan her a few hundred dollars in that case, and she'll be able to build up money more quickly with lower expenses and lower debt.

[Nev]

If you're prepared to forgive her the debt if she just can't pay it back, I'd say it's okay to get the contract...just don't use it as a weapon to make her feel bad about her inability to repay...

[bovine]

why don't you buy the car and let her use it? When she saves up enough money to pay you for it, it can be her car. If she flakes out, then you have a car you can sell.... or make explode with feelings of hatred towards the fairer sex.... depending on the circumstances.

[Tessian]

why don't you buy the car and let her use it? When she saves up enough money to pay you for it, it can be her car. If she flakes out, then you have a car you can sell.... or make explode with feelings of hatred towards the fairer sex.... depending on the circumstances.

LoL that's pretty cool actually...but how would she work out insurance on a car she doesn't own?

Seeker-- she currently lives with her mom who charges her $200/month. Her mom is a frigid horrible bitch of a person who threatens to kick her out whenever she's in a bad mood (and has done it before when she was in HS...but back then she could move in with her grandparents). She was looking at apartments nearby me...but any decent apartment here is at least $1000/month, and it'd rather loan her money for a car than move into an apartment with her. Not cause I don't want to, but because the expenses of an apartment would kill my ability to save for a house of my own.

[Lox]

wow, this is a bigger response than I expected

Everyone has a point-- I think the best is that you do get a legal contract, but as Lox said it's then up to me later whether to swallow the loss or sue her over it later...I think I'd be more worried about the "she can pay but we broke up so she said fuck you" event than anything. Because yes-- if she really couldn't pay me back I'm not going to destroy her for it.

Yeah, my concern was more along the lines of "she could do it if she wanted to. She just doesn't want to." If she couldn't afford to pay you back because it would force her into poverty or something, then the right thing to do would be to show compassion and not screw her over. I could never do that to someone. Sounds like you're in agreement there.

In my situation, the girl lived with her parents, had a job, a nice car, etc and just didn't want to pay me. Dumb choice on my part, but, hey...live and learn.

[Oracle]

I didn't read the last 5 or so posts, so ignore me if this has been mentioned.

Why not buy the car yourself? Have it under your name, but have her pay you back for it over time, just like you lending her the money. She uses it, she pays for it, but the initial investment is done by you.

That way, in the worst case scenario and you guys break up in a bad way, you at least have the car which you can sell to recoup the loss.

I dunno, just an alternative, not necessarily the most simple way of doing it.

Edit : Ok I see bovine has the same idea as me. And I know why. We live in a province where car insurance is very.... flexible. For instance, my mom technically owns my truck. It's insured under her name. We do this because she's been driving long enough to have enough "safe driver points" to maximize her savings on insurance (20% off). So it gets taken out of my bank account, but it's insured to her. If I get in an accident, I pay the deductible and the accident goes on my drivers license, not my plates (in our province, car insurance is government regulated so the same company administers the licenses and the plates). So if I get into an at-fault accident, I pay for it come license renewal time, and my insurance premiums don't go up.

[Nev]

wow, this is a bigger response than I expected

Everyone has a point-- I think the best is that you do get a legal contract, but as Lox said it's then up to me later whether to swallow the loss or sue her over it later...I think I'd be more worried about the "she can pay but we broke up so she said fuck you" event than anything. Because yes-- if she really couldn't pay me back I'm not going to destroy her for it.

Yeah, my concern was more along the lines of "she could do it if she wanted to. She just doesn't want to." If she couldn't afford to pay you back because it would force her into poverty or something, then the right thing to do would be to show compassion and not screw her over. I could never do that to someone. Sounds like you're in agreement there.

In my situation, the girl lived with her parents, had a job, a nice car, etc and just didn't want to pay me. Dumb choice on my part, but, hey...live and learn.

If you're going to feel bad about this...

I loaned $2500 to some friends to take over a business, which they proceeded to completely fail with. One of them got really pretty aggressive when I asked him to pay me back (which was about the point where I started to feel like he was a no-talent loser douche, coincidentally!)

Three hundred? You are obviously a scrub when it comes to making bad investments.

Nev FTW!

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Money changes everything
Money, money changes everything
We think we know what were doin
That dont mean a thing
Its all in the past now
Money changes everything

Never ever lend anything you're not okay with losing, and money especially.

why don't you buy the car and let her use it?

Best idea in the thread.

...but how would she work out insurance on a car she doesn't own?

Talk to an insurance company (I don't think any of us are brokers, heh heh ).

[Imakeholesinu]

Honestly it would work if you bought the car for her. Insurance would be in yours and her name. I do this currently with State Farm. Right now I do not own the car I drive, my mother does so my mother must be on the insurance policy. Look at it this way MULTI-CAR DISCOUNT BITCHES!!! That just adds a little bit more of a complicated aspect to your situation (e.g. you break up, she now has NO insurance on the car that you own that she's still paying on).

In my opinion the sex must be spectacular for this kind of bending over backwards but I've fallen into the same kind of trap and am currently still paying off the $3,000+ I spent while with her (not that I didn't lend her money that she did pay back but this is the accumulation of gifts, meals, and other novelties). The problem is, I had a problem with saying no. You are obviously falling into that pattern to where you want to take care of her because she likes you. Deny it all you want but it's true.

You have to ask yourself this, can you financially and emotionally be prepared for this if things turn south 2-3-6-12 months down the road?

In a way you are handcuffing yourself financially to this girl no matter what kind of assistance you want to offer her and you need to see all of the angles of the sacrifice you are about to make for her.

In the end, the question that you should be asking yourself is...


"Is she trustworthy? Is she really worth the effort?"

You can PM me for my answer to that from my previous experience since I won't bore the peanut gallery with it.

[Ishamael]

Don't do it.

Care to elaborate at all Ish?

As a general rule, when you mix in money with any relationship (friends, family, etc) it adds a strain. Money matters after all is a major (if not THE major) reason for divorce. There's tons of reasons for this, none of which I feel like going into right now.

Just don't do it.

[SineSwiper]

As a general rule, when you mix in money with any relationship (friends, family, etc) it adds a strain. Money matters after all is a major (if not THE major) reason for divorce. There's tons of reasons for this, none of which I feel like going into right now. :)

Just don't do it.

Exactly, which is why you shouldn't be worrying about the money in the first place. Just do it, and be done with it. People have blown away more money than that. (Gee, how many people have dropped out of college and are still paying off college loans?)

I do agree with owning the car, though. It seems like a nice compromise between trust and still owning your $5000. If you happen to break up, it's your car again, but you're doing this because you love her, right? Why the hell would you break up? By not doing this, you're not supporting the person you love, and that would be even more reason to break up.

Right now, my wife supports me and I support her with our paychecks, our own house, all of our stuff, everything. We own together hundreds of thousands of dollars in stuff. So, why the hell are you bitching about $5000? Just because you've only been with her for two months? So what?

When we hooked up, it was practically less than a month before I moved in. She supported me when I lost my job, and when I was searching for a tech job for several months. Plus, she still had her old car that I used for a few years. (We finally junked that 1990 Grand Am a few weeks ago.) Certainly that was way more than $5000 to help support me. Now, I'm the bread winner in the household (even though she's making good money herself), and to me, it doesn't really matter because we both own everything. The money is ours, not hers or mine.

If you love her, why don't you move in with her and support her, for fuck's sake?! This love can't last if she's feeling miserable worrying about money, and you're not. People in this day and age can't financially live separately for very long. Both people have to have jobs, and they both need to live together.

[SineSwiper]

In my opinion the sex must be spectacular for this kind of bending over backwards but I've fallen into the same kind of trap and am currently still paying off the $3,000+ I spent while with her (not that I didn't lend her money that she did pay back but this is the accumulation of gifts, meals, and other novelties).

You have to ask yourself this, can you financially and emotionally be prepared for this if things turn south 2-3-6-12 months down the road?

See, this "foot in the door" attitude is the reason why you guys are single.

Tessian, please don't listen to these single guys. They've gotten burned, and now they think that they must be cautious with every other girl they date. The problem is that getting burned is a part of relationships. If you get burned, YOU DO THINGS EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AGAIN!! Don't adjust yourself and start becoming mistrustful and wary of your other dates. The others who burned you were the reason why you got burned. They should be the ones that should change their ways.

For example, if a previous ex cheated on you, and that's why you broke up, that doesn't mean you start checking up on future dates or getting suspicious that your future dates may be cheating on you. No, the problem was the ex, not you, so you shouldn't change your personality or the way you treat people at all.

Sure, breaking up is painful, and the fear of experiencing that pain again is great, but you should bury it, because mistrust and suspicion will cause a break up far worse than the "burn" you had before. You don't want a relationship to fall apart because it's YOUR fault! That kind of pain is much more unforgiving.

[Nev]

I don't know about all of you guys, but the reason I'm single has a lot more to do with the fact that I'm just really not interested in a relationship right now. I have every faith I could get myself a girl if I wanted to go out and put up with the bullshit. But girls want you to spend time with them, and shit...I just have more fun not having the responsibility, personally.

I am occasionally upset that I don't get more casual play, but that's not the same thing. Was I included in that generalization, Sine, or am I just getting huffy for no reason?

[Ishamael]

You're about to give a girl you've known for two months 5 thousand dollars. Ignore everyone else on this thread and pay attention only to me.

Don't do it.

That is all.

[Nev]

As a dissent to Ish...

DO ITTTTTTTTT

(just don't get mad when she can't pay you back )

[Zeus]

I'll go with Sine on this one. You do what you think is right, what you feel you should do. If you get burned, you get burned. You can't live your life fearing consequences, you just gotta learn from your mistakes and move on. I can sit here and tell you that I personally think it's too early for that level of committment, but that's how I feel and what I think, not you.

What is or is not right is your decision, the only thing you've gotta learn to do is live with it, good or bad. I've found that the vast majority of the time when I do what I feel is right the outcome is usually positive for me. Those times it's not, I try to figure out why and if it's something that's my fault, I"ll correct it. If not (ie. the other person's a prick or something), I just do the same thing again 'cause I think it's right.

Don't ever forget, it's not always your fault or something you did that made something go wrong. It's not always because you were too trusting or you jumped in too early. At some point, you stop thinking about a situation and stop taking precautions and just say to yourself "I've given it my due diligence, whatever happens, happens".

Just make sure you always analyze the situation fully beforehand and afterwards to ensure that you're not causing the negative consequences, that's all.

[Julius Seeker]

See, this "foot in the door" attitude is the reason why you guys are single.

Last I checked none of us are single.

[Lox]

See, this "foot in the door" attitude is the reason why you guys are single.

Last I checked none of us are single.

I'm not sure if it was directed at me or not, but I'm married.

[Eric]

See, this "foot in the door" attitude is the reason why you guys are single.

Last I checked none of us are single.

I'm not sure if it was directed at me or not, but I'm married.

You are on super-lock down

[Nev]

I'm single by choice.

At this point in my life, girls represent a waste of my time, and my money, as you can't run XNA Studio on them, and yet it still costs money to have one.

Or, to put it another way...

http://machall.com/index.php?strip_id=291

[the Gray]

My first thought after reading the initial post was "5K, for a car?"

It still is actually. Give me a week and I'll find a car that runs just fine (2000 or newer) for $1,500 to $2,000. Even adding in insurance and you don't come close to $5k.

Then after thinking about that, I realized your post was rhetorical. It was wasn't it? Loaning 5 grand to a 19 yr old girl you've been in a relationship with for 2 months. Yeah it was rhetorical.

Put bluntly, don't do it.

[Julius Seeker]

I'll say right now that I lent a few hundred dollars to two girls (one 19 and the other 20) I was living with last year. I wasn't exactly in a serious relationship with either of them, and it is a PAIN in the ass getting money back from those types. I didn't lend them anything I couldn't afford though.