Liberal Bias?

[SineSwiper]

Towns Rethink Laws Against Illegal Immigrants

For the first time, I read a NYT article, and think that there's such an obvious bias here. I sorta already know that NYT is biased, just like Faux News is biased. But, it's just one of those "liberal" ideals that I don't agree with.

Yes, kicking out the illegals is going to reduce the economy. That's the point. Everybody's getting a free ride because illegals are getting paid below minimum wage under the table, and they aren't paying any taxes back. The city should be patient and wait for everything to balance out.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

For the first time, I read a NYT article, and think that there's such an obvious bias here. I sorta already know that NYT is biased, just like Faux News is biased. But, it's just one of those "liberal" ideals that I don't agree with.

Wait, I'm not sure I understand. Is this article biased because it's reporting something you don't agree with?

Yes, kicking out the illegals is going to reduce the economy. That's the point. Everybody's getting a free ride because illegals are getting paid below minimum wage under the table, and they aren't paying any taxes back. The city should be patient and wait for everything to balance out.

The solution doesn't necessarily have to be kicking illegal immigrants out. Another possible solution would be making the illegal immigrants legal and start taxing them.

[SineSwiper]

The solution doesn't necessarily have to be kicking illegal immigrants out. Another possible solution would be making the illegal immigrants legal and start taxing them.

While I agree that the US hasn't been doing enough to make the citizenship process easier, the illegals don't really care. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink.

[RentCavalier]

I read a story today about the United States government practially stealing 59,000 dollars from an illegal guatamalan who had worked here for 11 years saving up enough to go back to his homeland and buy good land for him and his family.

After many months of legal deliberation, he's being given a chance to work long enough to get a plane ticket home so that the U.S. doesn't have to pay--and he won't see a dime of his money.

[Nev]

I just think we should go ahead and chisel the damn inscription off the Statue of Liberty already, personally. People whose Irish/English/whatever immigrants came over here a hundred years ago are screaming about how full-blooded Americans should block off our borders. Makes me want to hit my head against a wall..

We're also doing shit like <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/27/immigr ... h">this</a>, which I personally think is the worst story I've ever heard. I sent in roughly the same sentiment to their "send in your opinions" thing at the bottom, and look forward to having it never, ever posted. Apparently, from my observations, they never, ever post any comments unless it's a supremely popular story and they pass a certain critical threshold of commenting.

Rumors that this makes CNN *and* Ted Turner about as worthless as giant, steaming piles of animal feces remain unsubstantiated and potentially even false. But if that story makes you as angry as it made me, feel free to go to the "Sound Off" section in a vain attempt to actually register some popular disapproval of a customs department that would confiscate eleven years of savings from a poor dishwasher trying to take it to his family in the Third World, and not give it back to him for two years (they still have not).

[Nev]

Hey, they actually started posting comments on this one! I retract some of my vitriol. Go CNN!

EDIT: Except that they apparently excised my comment. I wonder if it was because it mentioned chiseling off the inscription on the Statue of Liberty and all. CNN is dogshit.

[Tessian]

I read a story today about the United States government practially stealing 59,000 dollars from an illegal guatamalan who had worked here for 11 years saving up enough to go back to his homeland and buy good land for him and his family.

After many months of legal deliberation, he's being given a chance to work long enough to get a plane ticket home so that the U.S. doesn't have to pay--and he won't see a dime of his money.

I believe the story you're referring to is a totally separate issue.... where the gov't claims these days if you're walking around with a lot of cash (like $10000+) then it was not gotten by legitimate needs and that in itself is proof and evidence of drug dealing, etc.

The bigger problem is that in this case-- where the gov't seizes his money-- he's guilty until proven innocent. He has to PROVE the money was gotten legitimately. How this is consitutional I have no fucking clue... but the gov't can technically charge property with crimes too and then the whole system is upside down because property has no inherent rights.


I'm going to ignore Nev's bullshit so far as to point out that no sane person has ever called for closing borders, and your blanket statement about previous immigrants is ignorant at best. No one has a problem with people immigrating to the US legally; it's illegally that everyone gets pissed off about-- ESPECIALLY those who went through the bullshit to do so legally.

This isn't to say the legalization process shouldn't be made easier-- but like Sine said a lot of illegals don't give a shit about becoming legalized because they don't care. They just want to hop over-- get a half decent job because Mexico's economy is in the toilet thanks to THEIR immigration problem, and live better. They don't want to be bothered to go through a long process, let alone a hard one.

[SineSwiper]

I just think we should go ahead and chisel the damn inscription off the Statue of Liberty already, personally. People whose Irish/English/whatever immigrants came over here a hundred years ago are screaming about how full-blooded Americans should block off our borders. Makes me want to hit my head against a wall..

Yeah, legal immigrants. They went through Ellis Island, signed up for citizenship, and became legal citizens.

The illegals are illegal immigrants. That's the ones I have a problem with.

[Nev]

I got news for you guys - we have a continuous landbound border with a nation so relatively poor compared to us that any discussion of legality around the issue nearly makes me want to bust out laughing. Come on now - you're in a Southern state and so should have *some* idea of how futile any attempt to stop the crossovers is...

Ellis Island served as a wonderful gateway for legalization, due to the fact that the countries it served as a gateway for are separated from the U.S. by a pretty big stretch of really, really deep ocean. If Ireland was geographically contiguous to the U.S., half the immigrants from there would be illegal too. And as a brief aside, I'll eat my own ass if a lot of them didn't end up here illegally anyway as well. (Feel free to substitute any other country not geographically contiguous to the U.S. for Ireland in this equation.)

Given the bureaucracy and nonsense in our naturalization departments - I refer you again to the article I linked - I don't blame a lot of the immigrants from fleeing desperate poverty and repression in their countries without wanting to go through that nonsense. They're going to end up facing slightly less desperate poverty and a fair amount of repression here anyway, and far me it from me to make these people's already hard, horrid lives any worse.

The one thing I *don't* want to hear in response to this is a lot of bitching about Mexico needs to fix its system of government and borders, unless you happen to be half-brother to Vincente Fox or something. That's not practical either, and our system of gov't. is just as corrupt in a lot of ways.

[Nev]

I'm going to ignore Nev's bullshit so far as to point out that no sane person has ever called for closing borders, and your blanket statement about previous immigrants is ignorant at best. No one has a problem with people immigrating to the US legally; it's illegally that everyone gets pissed off about-- ESPECIALLY those who went through the bullshit to do so legally.

I never even implied anything close to the idea that people are calling for legally closed borders. I sure don't advocate it! I just think we should chisel the inscription off Lady Liberty because it seems to me like false advertising at this point, nothing to do with legality in any way.

And - quite frankly, you might not know this having been raised in the North and having gone to college there, etc. etc. - there are *plenty* of people all over the U.S. who have problems with legal immigrants. There are people who don't want (racial, ethnic, or religious group) in their neighborhoods, and if they feel safe enough around you they'll even tell you. People in your neighborhood, not just the so-called "red states". You probably don't see it because you argue a liberal viewpoint fairly well, and few of these people will be honest around that because they fear reprisals from the P.C. committee.

I have a cowboy uncle by marriage who will still go off about wetbacks if you give him half a chance, despite many conversations to try to convince him otherwise. We just try not to give him the half chance these days, but I have no doubt he'd love it if we just rounded up all the Latino-descent people in the U.S. and shoved them over some border, or shot them. He is far from my only wow-that's-some-shit kind of experience on his tip, but I don't really need to run the enumeration, I think. Might be worth mentioning the friend of my mother's who we were on vacation with at one point who said she "hoped all the Methodists moved out of" the town in Michigan where she lived - I don't even remember if it was Methodists she mentioned, but it doesn't matter much. But she'd never say it to you without knowing you very, very well, and if you just met her you'd more than likely see her for the sweet person she is, 95% of the time.

I think you severely underestimate the depth of racial and cultural resentments in this country.

[SineSwiper]

So what? We have some racists in this country. Believe or not, they are in the minority nowadays. Maybe 200 years ago, people were taking about "shootin' any nigger that gets outta line", but we've gone past a good part of that.

Though, racism (just like any other -ism: classism, sexism, etc.) stems from a stereotypical behavior that occurs from a group of people. Thus, when a group of people start behaving in a typical (and powerful) manner, people start classifying that behavior for the entire group, even though a majority that don't fit in that mold.

The best way to defeat racism is to defeat that typical behavior. Educate blacks and keep them out of crime. Integrate Hispanics into US society. Etc., etc.

[Julius Seeker]

The best way to defeat racism is to defeat that typical behavior. Educate blacks and keep them out of crime. Integrate Hispanics into US society. Etc., etc.

Get a politician in to say something like that and you'll have a bloodthirsty mob, I guarantee it.

Though important. What is the best way to eliminate racism towards these guys?

<img src="http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee27 ... et/JEW.gif" HEIGHT="300" WIDTH="300">


The question of eliminating prejudice is not nearly that simple, though education is a major key towards it. As long as we have different classes, there is going to be a deal of resentment.

History itself is strong evidence, as we have observed, a major ingredient within our human history is the strugle between classes. Before we had religion, then came the discovery of the printing press. The printing press made writen works much more easily accessible increasing literacy. Before this time the channels which news was delivered were through Churches and temples; religion certainly does not have this kind of power any longer in most places. The Churches were essentially the channel for which the leadership delivered their will to the people; it was a great system, people believed in the Church and therefore listened to them. Though as literacy increased, we gradually threw off that system, but then we had the Newspapers media in place of the Church. Media? Is it better? It is much the same in many cases, people are actually influeenced by the opinions on stations like Fox News and CNN (pathetic, I know, but there are many who believe everything that is said on their preferred network) just the new media has fewer morals.

Where are we now, multi-cultural society, in places where there is much cultural segregation between races, it will cause racism; the classes strugle against each other. This is just typical of human culture. Though, if a person is more educated on other existing cultures, was not brought up with racist beliefs, then chances are high they will not be racist.

[Nev]

"The question of eliminating prejudice is not nearly that simple, though education is a major key towards it."

Quotable. I command you to remember this, because it's the goddamn smartest thing I've ever heard you say, Seek.