Those motherfuckers can kiss my ass (Naruto post)

[Zeus]

Motherfuckers are waiting THREE WEEKS before the next half hour episode in Naruto (airing Oct 18)? After giving us 15 episodes stretched over 30 they'd better be fucking ramping up for Chuunin exam-speed episodes over the next 100

[Eric]

That's because it's having piss poor ratings in Japan atm.

Ratings this week were 4.6%. Lowest rating on the Top 10 this week was 4.9 so Naruto was probably 11th or 12th.

19 was 6.3 in comparison and 24 was 5.3.

Looking through the history 29-30 was the lowest-rated episode of Shippuuden so far.

So don't worry, for once it's not just us, the Japanese with their different taste aren't enjoying the new series either.

[SineSwiper]

Well, slowing it down isn't the right move. That's just fucking stupid, especially for a series that one of the top rated anime series in Japan.

The problem is the filler and the speed of the episodes. Slowing it down is only going to reduce the ratings even further.

[Nev]

This thread has been marked RUTARDED!

Enter at your own risk!

No need to thank me, guys. Just doing my job!

[Tessian]

hearing you guys constantly bitch about Naruto makes me glad I didn't bother trying to pick it back up... I'll stick to Bleach-- thanks guys

[Don]

The manga for Bleach drags on just as badly as the anime of Naruto. It's probably a good thing they are not sticking to the manga.

[Eric]

One Piece is the only one with really decent pacing, and the anime/manga have a nice ratio

The Anime is 33 chapters behind the Manga at this point.

In comparison, Episode 325 of the Anime is Chapter 440 of the Manga.

This is ok, because this particular One Piece arc is almost done in the manga, and Episode 325 means they can go into filler added at the beginning of each manga chapter, which isn't really filler because it ties into One Piece's real time officially and made by the author, OR it can go straight into the next arc and be ok.

While for Bleach, it's a bit better, but you gotta wonder, because the ratio is pretty high, Bleach combines alot of manga chapters into 1 episode, and a good 1/4 of those episodes are straight filler.

The Anime is 51 chapters behind the Manga

In comparison, Episode 143 of the Anime is Chapter 243 of the Manga.

Bleach is heading into the Arc, which has very very slow pacing, and it has no real end in sight atm, the Espansa are not rational people like the Captains of Soul Society were, short of annihilating them all I don't see how the arc can end.

Naruto's pacing is absolutely retarded.

The original Naruto manga run was 238 chapters, and the anime was 135 episodes(I'm not counting the crap after Naruto/Sasuke fought).

To let you know how close the Anime and Manga were

Naruto fought Sasuke in Chapter 238 on April(Might have been March) 4th in the manga

Less then 2 months later, Naruto fought Sasuke in Episode 135 on May 18th in Anime.

So you see Naruto was like something insane like 6-10 chapters behind the anime-counterpart, which is why we got a year and a half of filler.

Now here's the fun/retarded part for the new Naruto series.

New Naruto is manga issues 245-373. There have been about 4-5 arcs.

The anime has been 30 episodes so far, in equation the manga, Episode 30 = chapter 278.

So you've gotten 30 episodes for 33 manga chapters.

That's HORRIBLE pacing, it's all kinda screwed up.

You really should be finding/reading the manga at that point, you'd get better satisfaction out of the snail pace when you see it on 15 pages and read it in 3-4 minutes vs 23 minutes for crap.

[Zeus]

hearing you guys constantly bitch about Naruto makes me glad I didn't bother trying to pick it back up... I'll stick to Bleach-- thanks guys

I just finished ep 48 of Bleach. The first 135 eps of Naruto are WAAAAY better than Bleach up to this point.

It's only the new stuff we're bitching about....and only because it's moving at a VERY slow pace. What's there is good they're just stretching the FUCK out of it

[Tessian]

hearing you guys constantly bitch about Naruto makes me glad I didn't bother trying to pick it back up... I'll stick to Bleach-- thanks guys

I just finished ep 48 of Bleach. The first 135 eps of Naruto are WAAAAY better than Bleach up to this point.

It's only the new stuff we're bitching about....and only because it's moving at a VERY slow pace. What's there is good they're just stretching the FUCK out of it

Are you talking about the original Naruto series (250+ episodes) or the new Shippueden or whatever version where they're older that's airing now? If the former then I watched nearly all of the first run of Naruto many many years ago in college... still have the first 250 episodes or so on my HDD here fansubbed. I just meant I'm glad I didn't bother with the new series since you all bitch about it.

[Zeus]

hearing you guys constantly bitch about Naruto makes me glad I didn't bother trying to pick it back up... I'll stick to Bleach-- thanks guys

I just finished ep 48 of Bleach. The first 135 eps of Naruto are WAAAAY better than Bleach up to this point.

It's only the new stuff we're bitching about....and only because it's moving at a VERY slow pace. What's there is good they're just stretching the FUCK out of it

Are you talking about the original Naruto series (250+ episodes) or the new Shippueden or whatever version where they're older that's airing now? If the former then I watched nearly all of the first run of Naruto many many years ago in college... still have the first 250 episodes or so on my HDD here fansubbed. I just meant I'm glad I didn't bother with the new series since you all bitch about it.

I meant the original series. Shippuuden you can wait on 'til they get their act together, then pick it back. First 30 might be a bit painful but if they're taking that much time off, they might be doing a mini re-boot to the series and get it back up to the quality of the original.

I hope so anyways

[Don]

One Piece paces well because it's like Inuyasha with pirates. When you've something that absolutely has no concern for getting to an endpoint, it is easy to pace things. If you look at Naruto, stuff is probably supposed to end when all the known bad guys are down. They can drag stuff out but there has to be progress. If you're down one member of the Akatsuki that's one less to work with unless they bring in someone new. There has to be progress toward an inevitable goal. Although One Piece in theory has an end, the distance between where Ruffy is to the end of Grand Line magically grows as needed, similar to how the number of pieces need to finish the gem in Inuyasha is always 'a few more'. Adding a few thousand pieces when you only need 'a few more' still leaves you needing 'a few more'.

I really dislike how Bleach has multiple battles going on at the same time and tries to address each one of them every time, so you end up with like 2 pages of A versus B, 2 pages of C versus D, and then some useless introspective/flashback stuff, and that's it for the week. It literally took 3 weeks for one of the new guys to finish swinging her sword because there's like 3 pages per week devoted to that fight, and 2.75 of those pages is some kind of filler. Now if they actually focus on the same fight at a time you'd still an equal amount of filler, but at least it wouldn't take 3 weeks to make one attack.

[Eric]

Ugh, you compared Inuyasha to One Piece, that's just wrong.

Even if One Piece has no end in sight, there's nothing about the series that makes me say "Good god, I wish they'd end this crap, who is this person?! Why are they going down this route!"

Inuyasha on the other hand annoys me on a weekly basis, when they just randomly decide to make a story about Shippo, or Naraku shows up for the 100th time, gets obliterated but still escapes, while Inuyasha's sword gets stronger.

At least Luffy, and his entire crew are interesting, at least there's a sense of character development at the end of the day when an Arc is done. I don't have a problem with One Piece not going directly to the end goal, because I'm having a blast watching them get there. The entire crew is just fun to watch, the villains are unique and completely unpredictable, with their own goals/ambitions in mind.

Inuyasha just needs to end, there has been nothing fresh, or new about this series for the past 2 years.

[Don]

Fundamentally Inuyasha and One Piece is exactly the same thing. One Piece just does a better job at coming up with stuff to fill on the endless journey. Whereas whenever Inuyasha comes up with something dumb it usually just leaves it as is, in One Piece everything ends up being as an epic battle of betrayal, love, tear, and blood. I'm getting really tired about how every timeless promise that exist in the world of One Piece needs to be fulfilled by Luffy and his crew. Character development in One Piece can be ignored completely as long as the said character has a history of being betrayed at some point because that is the character development. It's not like One Piece is the only manga that does this, and it manages to do so without being offensive compared to many other things. But in the end it's still the same thing.

I actually give Inuyasha the nod for not trying to justify pointless plot devices that just makes everything drag out longer beyond what they are.

[Nev]

(shakes head sadly at the contents of this discussion)

[Eric]

Fundamentally Inuyasha and One Piece is exactly the same thing. One Piece just does a better job at coming up with stuff to fill on the endless journey. Whereas whenever Inuyasha comes up with something dumb it usually just leaves it as is, in One Piece everything ends up being as an epic battle of betrayal, love, tear, and blood. I'm getting really tired about how every timeless promise that exist in the world of One Piece needs to be fulfilled by Luffy and his crew. Character development in One Piece can be ignored completely as long as the said character has a history of being betrayed at some point because that is the character development. It's not like One Piece is the only manga that does this, and it manages to do so without being offensive compared to many other things. But in the end it's still the same thing.

I actually give Inuyasha the nod for not trying to justify pointless plot devices that just makes everything drag out longer beyond what they are.

Oh come on, not all of the characters have tragic pasts.

Luffy/Usopp/Zoro/Sanji had some hard times they had to deal with, but it doesn't compare to what Nami or Robin had to go through, and Chopper to a lesser extent.

One could argue that any manga that doesn't get straight to the point is wasting time, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad, or put it in the same league of a BAD manga/anime, like Inuyasha.

If anyone could travel across the Grand Line and just find One Piece we wouldn't have a story worth telling now would we? Would One Piece be better if the Grand Line consisted of 4 islands and we knew the 4th island was the end? Nobody in that world knows where the Grand Line exactly "Ends" or where One Piece is, which is kind of the point of the story.

[Don]

The first 4 characters have relatively normal background and it's fine. Once you get to Nami and any further characters tragic past becomes a substitute for character development. Nico Robin was basically like we can't think of anything interesting for this new character so we'll just show her bleeding, crying, and getting physically abused intermittently for 5 volumes in a row so you'll feel sorry for an otherwise soulless character.

Without a purpose a lot of the things in One Piece becomes epic just for the sake of being epic. One Piece probably does this better than any other manga but it is still ultimately just filler. One of the problem that really gets in the way of OP is the implicit rule that no one can die in OP unless it's in a flashback. So you get this epic battle of love and betrayal with the CP9, the ruthless Marines/World Government versus the Straw Hats + Friends, and you end up with 0 deaths on either side after an epic struggle that wiped off an entire island. Want to bet Luffy can use Gear 2/3 at will even though it is suppose to cut into his lifespan? In the Skypiea arc one of the guys used an attack 3 times that was supposed to kill himself each time. The characters in OP are literally indestructible, and while that's not necessarily a bad thing, it makes the whole thing feel very fake.

On the other hand, there's nothing fake about Inuyasha. It doesn't hide the fact that it sucks.

[Don]

The author of OP also does not have any talent in coming up with a defined set of rules to govern a fighting-based manga. Now obviously OP is mostly just totally whacked random fighting which is part of the charm but there's some problems that really get in the way that manifests itself around the CP9 arc:

1. Anyone with a natural line of devil fruit is too powerful. Ransom is roughly OP's equivalent of power level. Problem is that due to complete immunity to physical attacks, it doesn't matter if you have a ransom of 3 or 3 trillion, you still can't beat someone who is immune to your attacks. Not to mention most natural type guys have some attacks that more or less bypasses any defenses completely (dehydration, freeze, gravity, combustion, electrocute, etc) so you also can't defend either. This isn't a huge deal due to the rarity of such people, until the CP9 arc, where you get...

2. The Marines are basically the most incompetent form of 'bad guys' ever with no reasonable way of source allocation. As can be inferred on the flashbacks the Vice Admirals are people who either have natural line devil fruit, or people who are eqivalently strong. That means all they needed was 5 Vice Admirals to kill every member of the Straw Hats in about 10 seconds. To put it on another way, Garp can easily annihilate the Straw Hats by himself, so if 5 Vice Admirals put together is only as strong as Garp, who is a Vice Admiral himself, then that'd be more than enough. The special assault force is said to have 200 guys with comparable power to Smoker, who again can annihilate the Straw Hats by himself (since he does not take any damage from their attacks). This is where the 'no one can die in OP' rule really messes things up and makes a rather unbelievable world.

[RentCavalier]

You're wrong, though. First of all, One Piece doesn't truly revolve around the fighting. The fighting is more of just a fun centerpiece to the overall stories, which tend to revolve around political structures.

The Marines are not "Villains". There is no one true "villain" in One Piece. While individual Marines are corrupt or easily corruptable, the Marines stand for Justice--which, in its extreme, is just as bad as what the Pirates stand for, which is chaos/anarchy/freedom.

I will admit, the characters don't exactly change...or do they? Usopp surely has considerable character development. It takes a bit to get rolling, but you begin to see him change around Alabasta and whatnot. The Water 7 Arc is one of the most dramatic parts of the entire series, because there's a scene that really digs into what it is that makes the Straw Hats a crew, and it's VERY well-done.

The concept of character development is kinda iffy. The characters don't really NEED to change, unless it's required by the story. Luffy can't suddenly become a stark, grave character. Zoro cannot suddenly become a happy, jovial sort of guy. Sanji can't suddenly become immune to Nami's charms. It's not only part of the integral joke structure, but it also shapes the fact that they are a "crew"--they each compliment each other in some way or fashion, with Luffy being the--hehe--rubber band that holds them all together.

Think on it though--when the series starts out, Luffy knows NOTHING about sea-travel. He's not even that good of a fighter, really: he relies solely on just punching things wildly to get by. Only when he's forced to battle a truly difficult foe (I would cite Arlong in this category, though Luffy gets some serious trouble out of the cat-claw guy.). In those situations, Luffy has to adapt more skillful combat-manuevers.

As well, to cite Arlong, he also understands the importance of allowing people to solve their own troubles. He could have stepped in to help Nami at any moment, but he knew that she had to swallow her pride and actually accept that she needed help in order to fully become part of the crew. It's a seemingly cruel decision, but as Captain, Luffy understands Nami enough to know this is how she'd want to do it--not to be indebted so much as to be willing to ask somebody else for help.

In this regard, Luffy tends to grow more and more responsible as the series goes on. He's always been fiercely loyal to his crew, and at times his childishness gets in the way of progress, but he also realizes that he's vital to the survival of the Straw Hats' union. He has to take care and do what is right, even if it's cruel. In that regard, Zoro is always willing to step up and (sometimes harshly) remind Luffy of what his responsibilities are. He's not perfect, but you see a general amount of change come from him.

The others are more subtle. Zoro doesn't exactly change, but that's because we really haven't had a story arc devoted ENTIRELY to him, either. Sanji doesn't really need to change either, as he's eternally positioned to be a foil to Zoro and a dotee over Nami. There's no NEED for them to develop further, so long as they don't become stale or overused.

Robin also really hasn't had time to change. We just finished Water 7, and this past story-arc has mostly focused on the new character, Brooke. Robin, however, has warmed up to the Straw Hats now, and calls them by their proper names, you notice.

Finally, on the issue of no deaths...well, frankly, it can be annoying at times (especially in Skypiea, when the father lives. Though his return was pretty funny.) but once you accept it, it allows the storyline to be much, MUCH more serious when somebody actually DOES die. If you throw death around cheaply, an important death can be swept aside. But, if death is rare, it makes those deaths (like Bellamy's, for instance) all the more powerful--or chilling.

[Don]

OP may have a theme of exploring but due to the sheer amount of fights the characters get into (they're definitely fighting more often than not) it might as well be a fighting based manga. Like I said OP doesn't strike me as taking combat very seriously, but due to the sheer frequency of fighting it eventually has to.

There's nothing meaningful about death in a world where every good guy is effectively indestructible, and even the bad guys are nearly as indestructible. It's hard to take an event like the Buster Call seriously when you've OP's equivalent of a nuclear strike failing to kill even a single person who's aligned with the good guys. When you see someone die it makes you're more likely to think 'oh that character must not be important enough to be indestructible' as opposed to actually getting any meaning out of it. This is probably because OP is supposed to be some kind of fun house adventure type of story, but the scope of the story has expanded so that you can no longer have a nonsensical view of the world (i.e. no one can possibly die).

Really all the political conspiracy stuff with the World Government is too heavy to make sense in a light-hearted world of OP. There's nothing sinister or despicable about a shadowy organization when a Buster Call fails to kill even one innocent bystander. Complicated plot does nothing but messes up a series whose charm is in mindlessly beating stuff up.

[Nev]

I really want to try to get over some of my prejudices that most anime has about the plot level of a Saturday morning cartoon, and shouldn't ever be seen by adult people (with some notable exceptions of course), but you guys are not really helping with this right now.

[Don]

No one ever said Anime was thought-provoking.

[Eric]

I really want to try to get over some of my prejudices that most anime has about the plot level of a Saturday morning cartoon, and shouldn't ever be seen by adult people (with some notable exceptions of course), but you guys are not really helping with this right now.

No you don't. Keep having your prejudices about it! You're not hurting anyone, and you're not missing anything!

[Nev]

But Eric, I wish I did like anime. There's so much I haven't seen. And I've really enjoyed some stuff - Akira was cool, and there was some import about Oda Nobunaga that a friend showed me that was mindblowing. Battle Angel nearly changed my world, and even Ninja Scroll is fun to watch some night with friends.

But then I look at, like, Naruto, One Piece, etc., and I just can't hang. Help me out here! Unlock the secretz for me!

[Eric]

But Eric, I wish I did like anime. There's so much I haven't seen. And I've really enjoyed some stuff - Akira was cool, and there was some import about Oda Nobunaga that a friend showed me that was mindblowing. Battle Angel nearly changed my world, and even Ninja Scroll is fun to watch some night with friends.

But then I look at, like, Naruto, One Piece, etc., and I just can't hang. Help me out here! Unlock the secretz for me!

Nope, you're clearly not hip enough to join us here in the anime crowd!

*Shoves you in locker*

*Chats with Don, who's awesome*

[Nev]

That was actually the most awesome response I've received all night. This locker feels warm, and welcoming. At least compared to the massive fight I had on IRC...

[SineSwiper]

But Eric, I wish I did like anime. There's so much I haven't seen. And I've really enjoyed some stuff - Akira was cool, and there was some import about Oda Nobunaga that a friend showed me that was mindblowing. Battle Angel nearly changed my world, and even Ninja Scroll is fun to watch some night with friends.

But then I look at, like, Naruto, One Piece, etc., and I just can't hang. Help me out here! Unlock the secretz for me!

Watch Elfin Lied. The first 10 minutes give you an idea of what kind of anime it is.

When it comes down to it, Naruto, One Piece, Inuyasha, DBZ... these are all of the animes that they show to their 10-year-old kids in Japan. However, they are fun for adults, and heck, we can't even officially show it to our 10-year-old kids here without censorship (which is fucking sad).

However, there are plenty of adult animes out there, not hentai, but still with plenty of sex and/or violence that they normally don't show kids. Examples would be Elfin Lied, Hellsing, Ninja Scroll, maybe Akira (not sure if that's considered adult over there). Then there are sci-fi and similar series that are just too advanced for kids, such as Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, or Ergo Proxy.

So, to recap:

{D} = recommends dub
{S} = recommends sub; stay away from the dub

Recommended "kids" series:
Naruto {S} (seriously, start from the beginning series and watch about the first 15 episodes)
Fullmetal Alchemist {D} (probably the more adult of the "kids" series; the science of the battles is also neat)
Cowboy Bebop {D} (not exactly kids, but nothing gory or anything like that, either)
Rurouni Kenshen {S} (if you like Naruto, you'll like this series; the prequel movies are a lot darker than the series, though)
Trigun (Western meets sci-fi)

Recommended "adult" series:
Ninja Scroll (plenty of sex and ultra-violence)
Elfin Lied {D} (got some scary bitches in this one)
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex {D} (excellent, excellent anime series; stick with the series and not the subpar first movie)
Hellsing {D!} (cannot stress enough how good the dub is)
Black Blood Brothers {D} (another really good vampire series)

[Flip]

I would add Beserk to the adult list, and the Dub is fine. It's pretty awesome.

[Zeus]

No anime list is complete without Death Note IMO. Pure adult too

[Flip]

Yeah, but since DN isnt out in DVD form... it makes it more difficult.

Or is it out?

[Eric]

Yeah, but since DN isnt out in DVD form... it makes it more difficult.

Or is it out?

I dunno, but that whole "Or is it?" reminds me of Death and Sandy in family guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38p25EFyvtI

4:10 :p

[Zeus]

Yeah, but since DN isnt out in DVD form... it makes it more difficult.

Or is it out?

It's available, that I know......