Wii a fad in Japan?

[Zeus]

Some developers seem to think so. August was the lowest sales of the month there since December, the launch month

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6180832.ht ... top;more;8

Basically they're saying a lot of people bought it out of curiosity and have stopped using it. I'm wondering if it'll be like that after Mario Galaxy comes out?

[Flip]

The poor sales are probably due to the lack of good titles, not so much that it is a fad.

I will say, though, that i see a lot of wii's collecting dust at my friend's places... and i'd have to say that Mario wont really get them to pick it up. Believe it or not, Mario is a gamers game... not a casual one. My friends want to see more Wii Sports.

[Eric]

You're gonna have your nintendo hit games keeping the system afloat every 4 months or so

Waiting on F-Zero Wii.

[Julius Seeker]

I think the main reason is that nothing major has been released in a while, plus the recent releases on PSP and the new PSP model hype and release. Though this might actually shake Nintendo around into announcing more info instead of keeping totally quiet on everything. I would say Japan is probably the major motivator behind Nintendo's recent press conferences. Despight the drop in Wii sales in Japan, it is still the top console, though Japan is largely focussed on Mobile and handheld systems, they are the larger markets nowadays and are totally killing the consoles.

[Eric]

Nintendo has the DS, and it's reign is still solid. The US/Japanese markets are like night and day, rarely will you have a hit over there be a hit over here and vice versa, though there are exceptions to the rule(Phoenix Wright, anything Pokemon related, etc).

The PSP has finally picked up a little steam, after all these years. :p Crisis Core moved quite a few units in Japan. FFT would have moved units if it wasn't so screwed up when it was released there(Slow down, no voice acting, etc). God of War will move units here in the states when it's released, but it's far off.

Best thing about games like God of War and Crisis Core is that it shows you can go beyond simple ports and be original with the PSP. I really hope more developers follow suit.

[Julius Seeker]

For PSP: week Crisis Core was released they went from 20K to 95K. The following week the slim model was released and it jumped to 277K. Though it was back down to 86K last week.

[Zeus]

The poor sales are probably due to the lack of good titles, not so much that it is a fad.

I will say, though, that i see a lot of wii's collecting dust at my friend's places... and i'd have to say that Mario wont really get them to pick it up. Believe it or not, Mario is a gamers game... not a casual one. My friends want to see more Wii Sports.

I actually turn both my 360 and Wii on more often for non-gaming stuff than just for games. The Internet on the Wii is great, the upgrade from the beta on Opera really helped A LOT, although they need to hurry up and upgrade the flash player on there a little more often. You really can watch YouTube for hours. I like the Votes, Forecast, and News channels quite a bit too, much more than I thought I would. And I love Xbox Live, it's great. Tons of stuff to grab and easy access to demos.

I just refuse to pay to play online. They're the only ones that charge for it on any console, portable, or PC (other than Warcrack, which should be illegalized ;-). I just don't believe that after I spent $70 (or in Halo's case, up to $150) on a game that I should have to pay even more to get the full experience. That's fucking bullshit IMO. The only reason I want the PSN to come out and kick ass (I hope they announce some big, free online play stuff with GTA4) is so Microshaft will stop ripping consumers off for Live.

But then again, I can't blame them for charging people if so many are stupid enough to continuously pay for it. It reallly isn't a crime to take money from idiots if those idiots are old enough

[Lox]

It's $50 ($40 if you wait for a deal) for an entire year. That's $4/month for excellent online play. It's easy to use, works very well, and has a ton of features. Being cheap <> Intelligence.

[Tessian]

I got 13 months for my $40-$50 subscription and it's been well spent.

Want to bitch about subscriptions? How about World of Warcraft's $15/month? That's over 3x the price of Live each month just to play ONE game you already paid $50 for. Are you saying every WoW player is an idiot?

My only complaint would be that the Marketplace needs to have more free content and less pay... when you start expecting me to pay to be able to pay for more stuff it gets a little silly.

[Julius Seeker]

Yeah 50 dollars a year isn't bad at all for something like Xbox live. Though World of Warcraft is indeed ridiculous. Xbox Live if you don't use it for four months, it's not a big deal, and it is still there to pick up at any time if you do happen to have an urge to play. On the otherhand, with World of Warcraft, you pretty much have to plan to play the game hours a week in order to get some value out of your money. If you're like me, then you probably don't plan exact times to play games, you pick them up and play them when you want to. Sometimes you might get a really long RPG, play through a lot of it over a month long period and then put it down for 8 months and pick it up again and finish it (I have actually gone longer periods of time than that on some games). Though it is not like you would really plan to play the game 8 months from then, it could have been any week during that 8 month period, and maybe you did pick it up once, play another 20-30 minutes, and then put it down again for a few weeks. World of Warcraft, you can't really playlike that, it is stressful.

Seriously though, if they did have a program where you paid 50 cents or less an hour or so (perhaps even a dollar an hour), I would definately pick that up, because I would likely rarely play up to 15 hours per month. I am finding that nowadays the most I play on the main game I am playing is usually 25 hours max per month; I think that is about the time frame I used for Xenosaga and FF12, and I felt like I was playing those games too much when I was playing them =)

Handheld games are totally different though, I do play those at least once a day.

[Kupek]

I just don't believe that after I spent $70 (or in Halo's case, up to $150) on a game that I should have to pay even more to get the full experience. That's fucking bullshit IMO.

And what should Microsoft use to fund the XBox Live infrastructure? Puppies, kittens and warm fuzzies? Keep in mind this is a non-trivial system which must always be available, and has over 7 million subscribers so you know that there are at least several hundred thousand people using it at any given time. Purchasing a game does not entitle you to unlimited use of their infrastructure.

[Blotus]

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/16/famit ... t-playing/

[Zeus]

I just don't believe that after I spent $70 (or in Halo's case, up to $150) on a game that I should have to pay even more to get the full experience. That's fucking bullshit IMO.

And what should Microsoft use to fund the XBox Live infrastructure? Puppies, kittens and warm fuzzies? Keep in mind this is a non-trivial system which must always be available, and has over 7 million subscribers so you know that there are at least several hundred thousand people using it at any given time. Purchasing a game does not entitle you to unlimited use of their infrastructure.

It's called operating costs. That's a HUGE part of the appeal of their system, they NEED to keep it going.

7 million includes the Silver like myself. And don't forget these guys are making tons of money off of DLC so it's not like it's a pure sinkhole for them.

And the fact that it's free to play online on every other system. Sure, it's not like Nintendo or Sony have invested even a fraction of the money M$ (happy Lotus?) has put into it and they're not nearly as developed, but at the end of the day, it's just fleecing the consumer IMO. It's a competitive advantage (one of the major ones they have) to have such an online environment not an additional pay service.

But at the end of the day, if enough people pay for it and feel it's worth it, then I'm in the minority and they've made a great business decision. I just feel it's wrong and I won't pay for it, that's all.

[Blotus]

I know you don't pay for cable/satellite TV: is that because you can, or because you don't think you should have to because you already bought a TV?

[Kupek]

Last I heard, Microsoft's games division was still in the red. Your expectation that they sink in even more money is unrealistic. And as far as I understand, Nintendo and Sony's online infrastructure is not as good as Microsoft's. You get what you pay for.

The bizarre thing to me is that you recognize this, yet jump to "it's fleecing the consumer" with no argument for why other than you don't like paying for things.

[Tessian]

So Zeus admits that XBL is much greater quality and quantity than the competition... but it's still wrong to make people pay for a superior product?

I said it before... my only problem with XBL is I would expect More inside XBL to be free... charging me on top of a subscription is pretty low, IMO.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

I wouldn't complain if Live were free, but it's a great service that I don't mind paying for.

I said it before... my only problem with XBL is I would expect More inside XBL to be free... charging me on top of a subscription is pretty low, IMO.

Yeah, fer sure. That'd chaff me even if Live were free; trying to monetise fluff like themes and gamer pics (fucking gamer pics!) is just beyond ridiculous. "Yes, I would like to brand my entertainment system and online identity with your franchise. Please make me pay for this." Wrong!

[Zeus]

I know you don't pay for cable/satellite TV: is that because you can, or because you don't think you should have to because you already bought a TV?

It's because of Rogers and Bell. They have spent many years fucking the customer in the ass whenever they could including myself and essentially anyone I know or have ever met. So me using the signals they so generously have decided to store on my property is my way of saying "fuck you".

One constant about me: I DEPSISE predatory corporations, the ones who will fuck the consumer just because they can (ie. banks, insurance companies, gas companies, Bell, Rogers, etc.). So what I do is fuck them as hard as I can in return. Sure they won't notice 'cause their assholes are so fucking huge, but that's my protest. I generally pay for what I want but in this case, it's the principle of the matter

[Zeus]

Last I heard, Microsoft's games division was still in the red. Your expectation that they sink in even more money is unrealistic. And as far as I understand, Nintendo and Sony's online infrastructure is not as good as Microsoft's. You get what you pay for.

The bizarre thing to me is that you recognize this, yet jump to "it's fleecing the consumer" with no argument for why other than you don't like paying for things.

I bought Mario Kart for DS and was able to hop online and play it for free with no lag. When Smash Bros comes out, same thing. Hell, I even tried Socom out online for free. I just wanna do the EXACT same thing on my 360 that I do on ever other system I own.

One of the major advantages the 360 has over the other is its online. It's a competitve advantage and something they should have to sell systems not something they should be charging for 'cause of the hardcore crowd that wants it so bad they'll pay for it. Hell, if I had ANY inclination of getting a PS3 this year I would be getting both Rock Band and GH3 for it SOLELY on the fact that it's free to play online. They're the same game otherwise in basically every aspect. As it stands, I won't be playing either online now.

The argument is I shouldn't HAVE to pay for it and I don't on every other system. But M$ (I'm trying, Lotus) has said "we have Halo and other games we KNOW you want to play online, so we're gonna make you pay for it". See my above argument with respect to predatory companies.

[Kupek]

[shrugs]

I don't see it as predatory. Shit ain't free.

[Julius Seeker]

[shrugs]

I don't see it as predatory. Shit ain't free.

Though, if you bothered to read Zeus's argument, the features that he wants to use are free everywhere else except Xbox 360.

[Kupek]

Hey, everyone who's played games on all three big networks, which one works the best?

[Blotus]

I think Bovine's the only one who can answer that at this point.

[Julius Seeker]

It's still an easy question to solve. The Blizzard Battlenet is free and I think that most people here would agree that it was working great while we played Starcraft almost 10 years ago.

[bovine]

from what I've played, I've had the least amount of lag playing on the PSN dedicated servers for Resistance: Fall of Man, Warhawk, and the two games of Calling All Cars that I've played online. I've had really large issues with lag in Gears of War, and just some characters jumping around in R6:Vegas and Halo 3. Warhawk has had some huge issues with updating the server lists (the dedicated, ranked servers do not update their population, so it's hard to join any of them), and their stat tracking and ranking is really screwed up. It awards much higher ranks to people who do not have the experience necessary to have the stats.... so some people who should be ranked lower have to play on higher ranked servers. XBL isn't bad, it just seems to rely a lot on player-made servers and not dedicated servers. I don't own any games in duplicate, so I can't compare R6: Vegas on XBL and PSN. Of the PS3 first party games that I have that have multiplayer, they seem to work very well in comparison to those 3rd party games on the 360. The Halo 3 matchmaking service is a little sluggish these days, but still the most superior system out there.

The XBL store is obviously the superior store, getting new demos and content multiple times a week and having a very strong library of XBLA games. The PSN store has a fair amount of content, but very little in terms of game additions like map packs or anything like that. This could possibly be due to their games coming out later with the additions included on the larger blu-ray format. The downloadable PSN games are pretty cool, and of seemingly higher quality than the slightly upgraded ports hitting XBLA. Symphony of the night is on there, so if you didn't have a PS1 or 360 (or soon a PSP) you can still play it. The PS1 ported games on there can be sent to your psp for playing on there, as well as if you just want to play them in an upscaled resolution on your tv (and they've got jumping flash!). I could go on and on about how much I love the newly released Everyday Shooter..... so there are some high quality games on there, but there isn't the bulk of games that inhabit the XBLA library or Nintendo's VC.

And then there's the Wii's online effort. It reeks of possibilities. However, other than the VC games it is a virtual wasteland of content. My girlfriend LOVES the voting channel, but it's sort of a waste of time. That metroid thing was kind of cool, but I should probably get around to deleting it because it's useless now. So far it just seems like the PS2's online effort: free, but pretty much a waste of time. I'm really excited to see what battalion wars brings to the table at the end of the month.

Feel free to criticize.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

It's still an easy question to solve. The Blizzard Battlenet is free and I think that most people here would agree that it was working great while we played Starcraft almost 10 years ago.

This is not really a valid comparison, as only Blizzard publish games that use Battle.net. Probably the closest thing to Live is Steam on PCs, which I sadly have no experience with.

My only complaint about Live is the lack of dedicated servers. Sony provide these for free, Microsoft! Get on it!

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Also, nice post, Bovine.

[Julius Seeker]

It's still an easy question to solve. The Blizzard Battlenet is free and I think that most people here would agree that it was working great while we played Starcraft almost 10 years ago.

This is not really a valid comparison, as only Blizzard publish games that use Battle.net.

So you don't think the battlenet is valid evidence that quality online play can be delivered for free? Though the service is limited to Blizzard published titles, the cost structure would still be almost the same.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Not the kind of system-wide online play that a console requires, no. Every game on the 360 supports Live in some way or another. There's a big difference between that and a basically internal networking service.

Don't get me wrong, I do think online play can be delivered free, but it would require that one of the publishers absorb a loss, because that kind of infrastructure and support costs. I'd be happy for them to do so, of course, but as long as Live continues to lead the market in terms of features and integration I'll be happy to pay for it.

[Zeus]

[shrugs]

I don't see it as predatory. Shit ain't free.

That's just it, it IS free everywhere but on the 360. Other than the variety of d'loadable stuff, free or not, I haven't seen any real advantages of the 360s online over the others in terms of playing online. I just have to pay for it. And we'll see once the PSN gets going and Nintendo rolls our their demos and videos and d'loadable channels (like the FF Chronicles one).

That's when their competitive disadvantage disappears, especially when a lot of the online games are cross-platform (like GTA4 other than some exclusive downloadables; I think this game does wonders for the PS3, it's getting about that time for a small spike) or non-360 (Smash Bros and MGS online come to mind).

[Blotus]

A Zeus classic I picked from the archives while bumming around. In a discussion about analog controls, in response to Sine bashing the N64 controller:

"Pick up Mario 64. You'll notice that you have about 5 speeds of movement. Pick up Ass Bandicoot or Bore Raider and you'll notice you have about 3 (regardless of my opinion of the games). "

[Zeus]

A Zeus classic I picked from the archives while bumming around. In a discussion about analog controls, in response to Sine bashing the N64 controller:

"Pick up Mario 64. You'll notice that you have about 5 speeds of movement. Pick up Ass Bandicoot or Bore Raider and you'll notice you have about 3 (regardless of my opinion of the games). "

Heh, Ass Bandicoot. I like that one :-)

[Blotus]

I don't even think the orignial Crash Bandicoot had more than one walking speed. And Tomb Raider had maybe a walk to go along with the run. Both of those games preceeded the dual analog/dual shock controller.

[Zeus]

I don't even think the orignial Crash Bandicoot had more than one walking speed. And Tomb Raider had maybe a walk to go along with the run. Both of those games preceeded the dual analog/dual shock controller.

I could very easily have been talking about the sequels at that point. I don't remember, too far back for my senality :-)

[SineSwiper]

Pick up Mario 64. You'll notice that you have about 5 speeds of movement. Pick up Ass Bandicoot or Bore Raider and you'll notice you have about 3 (regardless of my opinion of the games).

Now notice how absolutely useless the "degrees of speed" is in most games. How many do you normally play with? One: run, and maybe a walk every once in a while. Hell, the best part about the analog stick isn't the degrees of speed, but the degrees of direction.

[Zeus]

You're gonna have your nintendo hit games keeping the system afloat every 4 months or so

Waiting on F-Zero Wii.

How did you like the N64 one?

[Zeus]

Pick up Mario 64. You'll notice that you have about 5 speeds of movement. Pick up Ass Bandicoot or Bore Raider and you'll notice you have about 3 (regardless of my opinion of the games).

Now notice how absolutely useless the "degrees of speed" is in most games. How many do you normally play with? One: run, and maybe a walk every once in a while. Hell, the best part about the analog stick isn't the degrees of speed, but the degrees of direction.

In Mario 64 I used at least 3 very regularly: crawl, walk, run fast. For a platformer, it's vital IMO

[Eric]

You're gonna have your nintendo hit games keeping the system afloat every 4 months or so

Waiting on F-Zero Wii.

How did you like the N64 one?

I liked all F Zero games. Never terribly deep games, but fun.

[Chris]

A Zeus classic I picked from the archives while bumming around. In a discussion about analog controls, in response to Sine bashing the N64 controller:

"Pick up Mario 64. You'll notice that you have about 5 speeds of movement. Pick up Ass Bandicoot or Bore Raider and you'll notice you have about 3 (regardless of my opinion of the games). "

Heh, Ass Bandicoot. I like that one :-)

sorry but that's a bitch attempt at comedy. going half way is for pussies....

It's Ass Bandicunt

[Julius Seeker]

A Zeus classic I picked from the archives while bumming around. In a discussion about analog controls, in response to Sine bashing the N64 controller:

"Pick up Mario 64. You'll notice that you have about 5 speeds of movement. Pick up Ass Bandicoot or Bore Raider and you'll notice you have about 3 (regardless of my opinion of the games). "

Heh, Ass Bandicoot. I like that one :-)

sorry but that's a bitch attempt at comedy. going half way is for pussies....

It's Ass Bandicunt

Hahaha, that's actually a good one =P

Even though you aren't really changing the meaning of the word =P

[SineSwiper]

My only complaint would be that the Marketplace needs to have more free content and less pay... when you start expecting me to pay to be able to pay for more stuff it gets a little silly.

The only difference between Silver (free) and Gold ($50/yr) is the ability to play multiplayer. You can still buy the XBL games or anything in the marketplace without a Gold account.

[kali o.]

So the P.O.S. Wii hasn't completely failed yet...? I'm surprised and I guess my predictions from a few years ago were wrong (so far). Given the lack of anything worthwhile to play, I'd say Nintendo should thank Sony for their idiotic and insane blunders...which imo is the only reason the Wii is selling well at all.

[SineSwiper]

Given the lack of anything worthwhile to play, I'd say Nintendo should thank Sony for their idiotic and insane blunders...which imo is the only reason the Wii is selling well at all.

Well, that and the $500-600 price tag. People bought the Wii because it was cheap, despite whatever games it didn't have. Nobody buys a $500-600 system without some good forethought.

[Julius Seeker]

So the P.O.S. Wii hasn't completely failed yet...? I'm surprised and I guess my predictions from a few years ago were wrong (so far). Given the lack of anything worthwhile to play, I'd say Nintendo should thank Sony for their idiotic and insane blunders...which imo is the only reason the Wii is selling well at all.

The PS3 at least got off the ground in Japan, Xbox 360, nope.

[SineSwiper]

Which is why Japan is so far off the pulse of good gaming. I think they are big racists over there that won't buy the 360 because it's American with American games.

[Julius Seeker]

Which is why Japan is so far off the pulse of good gaming. I think they are big racists over there that won't buy the 360 because it's American with American games.

You could easily swing that argument the other way around in saying that Microsoft is racist and doesn't create good games that appeal to the Japanese market. There would also be more evidence to support it considering Japanese games sell throughout the world, which would indicate that they develop more multinational appealing games, and the type of games that are on Xbox sell to an audience that is A. Primarilly white, B. primarilly English, and C. primarilly male.

[Zeus]

So the P.O.S. Wii hasn't completely failed yet...? I'm surprised and I guess my predictions from a few years ago were wrong (so far). Given the lack of anything worthwhile to play, I'd say Nintendo should thank Sony for their idiotic and insane blunders...which imo is the only reason the Wii is selling well at all.

With the first year of the system there's a Zelda, Metroid, and Mario game. If that ain't enough, there's Wario Ware and another Mario (Super Paper Mario) as well, not including third party software (Nintendo's systems have always lived and died by their own software) and some other "smaller" titles by Nintendo (WiiPlay, Mario Strikers, Mario Party, etc.). That's a helluva release schedule for the first 12 months, far superior to anything in the last 2 generations and slaughters the year 1 release schedules of their direct competition. You have to go back to the SNES days to find a release schedule even remotely close to both quantity and quality of the Wii's so far and that was with a lot of third party publishers taking a wait-and-see approach to the system.

It's all subjective, Kali. Obviously more people thought the system was worth it than you ever thought. You really should give some credit where credit is due, they're not succeeding solely because Sony fucked up huge. Just 'cause you don't care don't mean it ain't good or appealing to the rest of the world and it don't mean you can't say "good job, Nintendo, in having foresight and making some kick-ass business decisions leading to ridiculously insane growth in your company and in the breadth of the gaming market as a whole".

Give it a shot, I promise, you'll survive the ordeal

[Zeus]

Which is why Japan is so far off the pulse of good gaming. I think they are big racists over there that won't buy the 360 because it's American with American games.

You could easily swing that argument the other way around in saying that Microsoft is racist and doesn't create good games that appeal to the Japanese market. There would also be more evidence to support it considering Japanese games sell throughout the world, which would indicate that they develop more multinational appealing games, and the type of games that are on Xbox sell to an audience that is A. Primarilly white, B. primarilly English, and C. primarilly male.

Well, the Japs (this is short form, not derogatory) are a bit discriminatory that way, even Blue Dragon didn't do too hot. But if they had DMC4 exclusively I'll be you'll see a bit of a spike.

Microsoft is the FPS machine and the Japs don't like them. Oblivion? They don't like that type of RPG either. Really, the vast majority of the software on the system isn't very appealing to the vast majority of the market over there

[kali o.]

You really should give some credit where credit is due, they're not succeeding solely because Sony fucked up huge. Just 'cause you don't care don't mean it ain't good or appealing to the rest of the world and it don't mean you can't say "good job, Nintendo, in having foresight and making some kick-ass business decisions leading to ridiculously insane growth in your company and in the breadth of the gaming market as a whole".

I'm being very logical and levelheaded about this, actually. Nintendo owes the majority of their fad status to Sony's insane mistakes which completely negated Sony's next gen momemtum. Period.

You talk of games, but the reality is the Wii's three biggest games up till September (which saw MP3) were two last gen ports and a pack-in budget title: RE4, Zelda and WiiSports. The rest of the library was shovelware.

[Kupek]

Again, I think Nintendo is pulling in people who never would have considered buying a PS3, even if Sony was at the top of their game.