Wii a fad in Japan?

[Blotus]

Again, I think Nintendo is pulling in people who never would have considered buying a PS3, even if Sony was at the top of their game.

Totally. They're pulling in people who never would have considered buying ANY console.

[kali o.]

Totally. They're pulling in people who never would have considered buying ANY console.

I hear nothing but anecdotal evidence for that. The core gaming crowd (particularly Nintendo-only gamers of which there are many) more than explain the Wii's current sales totals - it's low price spurring on early adoption rates.

That there have been a few non-gamers that have purchased it, I have no doubt - but nowhere near the levels that people try to attribute. The numbers just don't support that theory. And these "non-gamers" are the same crowd that rarely will buy one or two games beyond the packin WiiSports, so it doesn't amount to all that much regardless.

[Blotus]

Alpha Moms, dude.


I can't fully detail the events of this, but Nintendo had people host these Wii parties for mothers. They'd show them the games, then give them Wiis and games for their family to spread the word. More info can be found in an EGM Live podcast where they speak to two such women.

It's the logical choice of console to buy for children under 10, for a family that never previously owned a console. I don't need sales charts to tell me that.

As for the numbers not supporting the theory, are you basing that on install base of the PS2 not upgrading to the PS3, but mostly the Wii? Not sure I understand.

The attach rate for games:consoles sold for the Wii is a tricky one. On one hand, there are probably people that will just get it with Wii Sports and maybe Wii Play with he extra remote and only use it once or twice a month when friends are over. On the other hand, the rich Wii owner may be buying a game a month if it's their primary system since 90% of what's on the console is shovelware or of no substance.

[Don]

That's still just anecdotal evidence. You heard from someone somewhere that soccer moms are buying Wii for exercising or whatever. All the people I know of who bought a Wii fit your typical gamer profile. Of course most of the people I know are typical gamers so that's hardly surprising or meaningful. If you have statistics like '1 million Wiis are sold to people of age 75 or older' then it might mean something.

As for buying for kids, according to stats released the plain old NES was actually quite expensive when adjusted for inflation. That was the first system my parents bought for me. Now you can say parents are more likely to buy something cheap for their children, but that's just a function of price. Obviously PS3 is not priced at a range that is attractive for parents to buy for their kids. That is not exactly rocket science.

[SineSwiper]

You could easily swing that argument the other way around in saying that Microsoft is racist and doesn't create good games that appeal to the Japanese market. There would also be more evidence to support it considering Japanese games sell throughout the world, which would indicate that they develop more multinational appealing games, and the type of games that are on Xbox sell to an audience that is A. Primarilly white, B. primarilly English, and C. primarilly male.

Oh, come on. We like the Japanese games because we're tolerate a lot of what they have, and well, they have been the epicenter of games. It's no secret that the Japanese are over nationalistic (and I'm using nice terms here). Hell, they were on the wrong side of the war 50 years ago.

It's sort of like the whole "Buy American Cars" mantra back in the 80's. Otherwise, there's absolutely no reason why they wouldn't like some of our games. Dead Rising, BioShock, Half-Life, the RPGs out for it, Mass Effect, etc. At this point, it doesn't make any sense, so I have to point to close-mindedness. We've been tolerant when they make some totally fucked up game like Katamari, so why not buy into our ideas?

[SineSwiper]

Totally. They're pulling in people who never would have considered buying ANY console.

The question is this: What games are they buying besides Wii Play/Sports?

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

The core gaming crowd (particularly Nintendo-only gamers of which there are many) more than explain the Wii's current sales totals...

Nah, not any more. Since February the Wii has sold on average over 100K units per week in the USA. If sales were being driven by Nintendo-only gamers, we'd have seen similar tracking figures for the Gamecube; but a couple of months after its release, its struggled to reach 50K sold a week. And that's with the Wii being pretty severely supply-constrained, also!

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

The question is this: What games are they buying besides Wii Play/Sports?

None. It's the core Nintendo fans that are actually buying games, that's why Wii game sales are so weak .

[Blotus]

It's sort of like the whole "Buy American Cars" mantra back in the 80's. Otherwise, there's absolutely no reason why they wouldn't like some of our games. Dead Rising, BioShock, Half-Life, the RPGs out for it, Mass Effect, etc. At this point, it doesn't make any sense, so I have to point to close-mindedness. We've been tolerant when they make some totally fucked up game like Katamari, so why not buy into our ideas?

Xenophbia, motion sickness, national pride.

[SineSwiper]

Xenophbia, motion sickness, national pride.

All excuses. For that matter, why the fuck do they always release an "international" version of the FF games that never makes it in the States? Is it to just rub in our faces that the Japanese will get the better stuff?

[Blotus]

Xenophbia, motion sickness, national pride.

All excuses. For that matter, why the fuck do they always release an "international" version of the FF games that never makes it in the States? Is it to just rub in our faces that the Japanese will get the better stuff?

Well, you realise those "International" versions are released six months after the fact when everybody has already bought the game. If you want to buy FF12 again, I'm pretty sure the Japanese "International" version is in English as well.

And I think in the case of FF7, they just released the NA version in Japan after it was out here with the extra shit they put in it.

[Lox]

This is obviously still "anecdotal" evidence, but I can say that I have personally seen members of my family purchase a Wii who have never owned a system prior. I have several friends who own Wiis and have taken them to family functions only to have their family members go out and buy one soon after.

This isn't hard evidence by any means, but if it's happening like that with me and my friends, I imagine it's happening with other people's family and friends.

[Don]

International version is just a fancy way of selling the same game twice. It is a common ploy when you got a rabid fanbase that will buy anything that shows up. I have heard there's like five versions of the game "Air" and apparently a true hardcore fan buys all five versions even though the difference between the versions is less than the difference between Street Fighter 2 and SF2 Turbo. I mean, if you can sell the same game 2 or 5 times to some guy, why not?

[Zeus]

Holy shit, guys. Let's get rid of the subjectivity and do some research.

If you wanna know if this is more than anecdotal evidence, do a search for news stories at 1up or Gamespot. Or *gasp* maybe Google?

I don't have the time otherwise I'd do it for you, this whole "work" thing (accountants and year end, like water and oil.....)

[Don]

Of course everyone knows Wii is selling to some nongamers. But if it managed to sell 1 million more systems to non gamers and then stops there, that's absolutely nothing to be concerned about.

[Julius Seeker]

The question is this: What games are they buying besides Wii Play/Sports?

None. It's the core Nintendo fans that are actually buying games, that's why Wii game sales are so weak .

Actually the Wii is doing quite well for a system on the market for just 10 months. It has multiple games which have passed the 3 million mark, but in that same time period, the PS3 has no games over 2 million (just 2 games over 1 million) and the Xbox 360 also had no games over 2 million. With Mario Galaxy, Smash Brothers Brawl, and Mario Kart coming out November, February, and May, you're going to see 3 additional games sell over 3 million units, though, by that point, the Xbox 360 had only one game over 2 million, and that was Gears of War (which was somewhere around 5 million).

[Zeus]

Of course everyone knows Wii is selling to some nongamers. But if it managed to sell 1 million more systems to non gamers and then stops there, that's absolutely nothing to be concerned about.

That is the real question, how long will the sales to non-gamers last? Well, the DS has done a pretty damned fine job of continuing to sell to non-gamers even after 3 years on the market so if that's any indiciation, it's not like they're expecting to slow down anytime soon. And with the continued "sell everything we can make" going on in the market, I don't think it's just hardcores clamoring for it right now. The non-gamers are still interested even a year in.

I've always maintained my opinion that the Wii is more of a short-term phenomenon and will eventually lose out to the PS3, but not until year 5 or 6. This is mostly due to the severe technological deficiencies in comparison to its competition that will come out later on in the system's life (here's to bet we'll see the Wii Lite with HD in 2009 or 2010).

Only time will tell but as it currently stands, they have definitely been appealing to a far wider portion of the population (albiet less software-buying portion; tie ratio's a lot lower on the Wii than 360 or PS3, yet another indication it appeals more the casuals than hardcores).

[Don]

DS is not the Wii. It is easy to experiment and expand your market when you have no real competitor. With or without the so called 'non gamers' the DS wasn't going to lose to PSP. The Wii enjoys no such advantage to start with. Also, the DS isn't particularly designed for non gamer. If you never bought a hand held you're not going to say 'this thing has 2 screens it must be better than the old GBA with one screen'. The touch screen and the 2 screens works just as well for any regular hardcore game versus any 'non gamer' game so even if Brain Age totally flops it's not like they somehow lose out on any of their normal 'gamer' games. On the other hand some features of the Wii is really designed to be very different compared to normal (the controller mostly) to appeal to non gamers so it is important that this plan actually works not just at the start, but for the long run too.

[Zeus]

DS is not the Wii. It is easy to experiment and expand your market when you have no real competitor. With or without the so called 'non gamers' the DS wasn't going to lose to PSP. The Wii enjoys no such advantage to start with. Also, the DS isn't particularly designed for non gamer. If you never bought a hand held you're not going to say 'this thing has 2 screens it must be better than the old GBA with one screen'. The touch screen and the 2 screens works just as well for any regular hardcore game versus any 'non gamer' game so even if Brain Age totally flops it's not like they somehow lose out on any of their normal 'gamer' games. On the other hand some features of the Wii is really designed to be very different compared to normal (the controller mostly) to appeal to non gamers so it is important that this plan actually works not just at the start, but for the long run too.

Yeah, true. I mean, the DSs method of input/consumer interaction is very similar to all other handhelds before it........*pauses, stares at Don, lets him think about what he wrote for a minute*

The development of the Wii mirrored the DS (and GB ) in the following ways:

- input was changed to be simplified and interactive: stick on the DS (a copy of stuff like the Palm), motion sensing on the Wii; very easy when compares to the what, 17 buttons on the 360 controller?
- backwards compatability added for the first time in Nintendo console history
- going on the cheap with known technology to ensure that the system can be sold for a profit immediately and knowing that horsepower is not a main factor
- development of games and respective marketing to traditional non-gamers

Lots of people who don't own handhelds or haven't had a game system since the SNES have a DS. I see this every weekend in the stores I visit, non-gamers in gaming stores looking at non-gaming software for the DS. Heck, my wife asked me for one and she hasn't had anything since the GB Pocket.

I completely agree that the dual screen and touch screen works well for gamers and non-gamers. That's why that and the Wii are selling so damned well, they're appealing to everyone. Just because something appeals to non-gamers don't mean it doesn't appeal to gamers (such as Guitar Hero). The Wii does it by having games like Zelda (for many, this is enough reason to get a Wii) and Metroid for gamers (and Smash Bros) and games like Big Brain Academy or Wii Play/Sports for non-gamers. Of course, there's always games that both non-gamers and gamers have wet dreams over as well (Galaxy).

It's not like Nintendo has driven away it's core customer with the Wiimote, it's just attracting many other people, mostly non-gamers, with it. The people btiching are mostly the same people who didn't buy the GC and had no interest in the Wii to begin with.

[Julius Seeker]

GBA SP created a lot of new gamers, particularly among females, and DS Lite has gone on even further and is working faster. As for Nintendo demographics, it is actually not children who own their consoles. According to a survey conducted by reputable Japanese market research firm "Infoplant", most DS owners are in their 30s and 40s, with a significant portion in their 20s and lots of 50+. In fact, not many children in Japan own DS, the smallest groups of DS owners are children under the age of 10 followed by teenagers 11-20. I would take an educated guess and say Wii is fairly similar.

As for the amount of Japanese not playing Wii, there is no data provided about how many play PS3 or Xbox 360, I would guess even less since both of those systems are dead weight in the Japanese market; they have not done much software or hardware-wise this entire year. Even so, one must also consider that if a third of owners are playing their Wii, that still means more than Xbox 360 or PS3 even if 100% of them are playing their systems because Wii sold more than 3 times better in Japan than either of those systems.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

It has multiple games which have passed the 3 million mark...

Which Wii games have sold over 3 million?

[Zeus]

It has multiple games which have passed the 3 million mark...

Which Wii games have sold over 3 million?

WiiPlay is the only one I can think of, unless you're counting WiiSports in the US and Europe

[Julius Seeker]

Wii Play passed the 6 million mark actually. Zelda and Mario Party 8 would also be on that list. Wii Sports, I remember reading about it passing the 2 million sales point in Japan a while back, it does not come packed in with systems there. In North America and Europe, it is safe to say that at least a million people purchased the Wii with Wii Sports as a major reason they bought the system in the first 10 months of its release.

[SineSwiper]

With Mario Galaxy, Smash Brothers Brawl, and Mario Kart coming out November, February, and May, you're going to see 3 additional games sell over 3 million units, though, by that point, the Xbox 360 had only one game over 2 million, and that was Gears of War (which was somewhere around 5 million).

So, Halo didn't go over 2 million? Even if we're talking about time frames, it's a stupid argument. If a console has a slow start, that doesn't mean that it's going to spend all of that time catching up. After all, the Wii was being developed for before the 10 month period, so doing that usual time frame math you like to do is unfair. Console launch dates don't matter. If the 360 or PS3 decide to launch early, and get the games later, it might piss off fans and developers, but if they catch up, it doesn't amount to anything lost.

WiiPlay and WiiSports don't count because of the bundling. So, that leaves two Wii games that are over 2 million. 360 have two games at that mark, and the PS3 has one that barely makes it. The 360 also has a LOT of games in the 1 million mark (9 versus Wii's 4). You talk about the Wii having three more "2 million" games, but the 360 isn't slowing down their must-have launches, and there's no guarantee that those 3 Wii games will actually hit the mark.

[SineSwiper]

In fact, not many children in Japan own DS, the smallest groups of DS owners are children under the age of 10 followed by teenagers 11-20. I would take an educated guess and say Wii is fairly similar.

Well, that's because Japanese teenagers and kids don't have social life outside of school. It's hard to play games when your parents are putting you in sports and other in-school activities, along with all of the homework, and six-day a week school periods.

I would like to see that type of study in an American audience. While there are a lot of people playing DS our age, all of those parents are buying their kids DSs to keep them occupied on family trips and the like.

[SineSwiper]

Wii Play passed the 6 million mark actually. Zelda and Mario Party 8 would also be on that list.

Man, talk about inflating your figures. NO GAME has surpassed the 6 million mark if you take the bundled part out of Wii Sports' figures! Where the hell are you getting these figures?

* Wii Sports (11.58 million) (packaged with system in all regions (9.50 million bundled)[52] except Japan (2.08 million sold))[53]
* Wii Play (4.49 million)[54]
* The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (3.61 million)[54]
* Mario Party 8 (2.89 million)[52]
* Wario Ware: Smooth Moves (1.82 million)[54]
* Super Paper Mario (1.25 million)[54]
* Rayman Raving Rabbids (1 million)[55]
* Red Steel (1 million)[55]

Source: Various quoted sources

[Julius Seeker]

Wii Play passed the 6 million mark actually. Zelda and Mario Party 8 would also be on that list.

Man, talk about inflating your figures. NO GAME has surpassed the 6 million mark if you take the bundled part out of Wii Sports' figures! Where the hell are you getting these figures?

* Wii Sports (11.58 million) (packaged with system in all regions (9.50 million bundled)[52] except Japan (2.08 million sold))[53]
* Wii Play (4.49 million)[54]
* The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (3.61 million)[54]
* Mario Party 8 (2.89 million)[52]
* Wario Ware: Smooth Moves (1.82 million)[54]
* Super Paper Mario (1.25 million)[54]
* Rayman Raving Rabbids (1 million)[55]
* Red Steel (1 million)[55]

Source: Various quoted sources

You actually altered those figures and lowered them when pasting them here, I followed your link and found this instead:

Wii Sports (11.86 million)[53] (packaged with system in all regions except Japan)
Wii Play (6.32 million)[53]
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (3.61 million)[54]
Mario Party 8 (2.89 million)[52]
Wario Ware: Smooth Moves (1.82 million)[54]
Super Paper Mario (1.74 million)[53]
Rayman Raving Rabbids (1 million)[55]
Red Steel (1 million)[55]

With Mario Galaxy, Smash Brothers Brawl, and Mario Kart coming out November, February, and May, you're going to see 3 additional games sell over 3 million units, though, by that point, the Xbox 360 had only one game over 2 million, and that was Gears of War (which was somewhere around 5 million).

So, Halo didn't go over 2 million? Even if we're talking about time frames, it's a stupid argument. If a console has a slow start, that doesn't mean that it's going to spend all of that time catching up. After all, the Wii was being developed for before the 10 month period, so doing that usual time frame math you like to do is unfair. Console launch dates don't matter. If the 360 or PS3 decide to launch early, and get the games later, it might piss off fans and developers, but if they catch up, it doesn't amount to anything lost.

Halo 3 was not released until the system was more than 20 months old, so it doesn't count; by August next year the Wii will have sold significantly more titles than it has now.

It is a simple fact, Wii was not launched at the same time as the Xbox 360, it just happened that it sold much more quickly due to it being much more popular. Development of Xbox 360 games has gone on much longer than development of Wii titles has gone on for.

WiiPlay and WiiSports don't count because of the bundling. So, that leaves two Wii games that are over 2 million. 360 have two games at that mark, and the PS3 has one that barely makes it. The 360 also has a LOT of games in the 1 million mark (9 versus Wii's 4). You talk about the Wii having three more "2 million" games, but the 360 isn't slowing down their must-have launches, and there's no guarantee that those 3 Wii games will actually hit the mark.

You just linked to an article that contradicts this post. In addition, Wii Sports isn't bundled in Japan, it has also sold over 2 million, it would have easily sold over 1 million in North America and Europe since it was a more popular title than Zelda which sold millions here. Wii Play was bundled with an extra controller, not the system, people who just wanted an extra controller had a cheaper option available for them to do so.

[SineSwiper]

Yeah, I altered the figures, huh? Or, more plausibly, the article was corrected the day after I posted the message. Mine happened to be Q2 figures.

Also, again, I ask that you stop with the time frame math. We don't care when the Wii was released. We care about the here and now, and what the future of the consoles are going to be. It doesn't matter how old a system is, especially for a system that is actually less advanced than any of its competitors. Every time I give you evidence that the 360 is on par with the Wii in "million game" club, you spit out that same "10 month" bullshit.

It really doesn't matter because the Wii lost all of that time getting released late. Or you could look at it like the 360 wasted money releasing early with a slower game release schedule. In the end, both systems end up with a similar amount of "hits". Though, the definition of the word (2 million versus 1 million, etc.) seems to change from your perspective based on what would give the Wii a higher margin.

So, don't refer to the Wii in future-past tense, with adjustments because of the console release dates. Obviously, none of the companies are living in a bubble with their own product, so why expect them to not pay attention to their competitors' game releases as incentive to get into a quicker pace?

[Julius Seeker]

Who is we? You and your imaginary friends who think just like you?

It is a simple fact, Xbox 360 was released a year ahead of Wii (and PS3) and therefore had software developed for it earlier. Do you expect 200+ games to be ready for Wii and PS3 each upon release? In addition, do you expect that upon release Wii and PS3 should have sold instantly as much as the Xbox 360? Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. The reason PS3 is not up to par with Xbox 360 currently, in the graphics field, is because the developers and SDKs are not as advanced at this point.

Though if you are going to say that the first year of the Xbox 360's lifespan is irrelevant, then you also must ignore the sales of anything released during that first year as well, as well as hardware sales during that first year.

[SineSwiper]

I'm not saying to make anything irrelevant except time. Don't discount any of the games made on either system because of the life of the console. You're the only person arguing this point over and over again, because it puts the math in the Wii's favor.

Let's talk about the console life as a whole, because when it comes down to it, a new guy who bought a Wii or 360 is going to have the entire selection of Wii or 360 games available to him, not just the ones from the last 10 months.

[Julius Seeker]

I'm not saying to make anything irrelevant except time. Don't discount any of the games made on either system because of the life of the console. You're the only person arguing this point over and over again, because it puts the math in the Wii's favor.

It is just simple logic, you can't equate 22 months to 10 months, they are two different numbers.

Let's talk about the console life as a whole, because when it comes down to it,

You fail to understand that the Xbox 360 has been out longer. You are essentially trying to argue that it is as successful as the Wii because it sold more software in 22 months as the Wii did in 10, ignoring the fact that the Wii in 10 months outsold what the Xbox 360 sold in 10 months.

a new guy who bought a Wii or 360 is going to have the entire selection of Wii or 360 games available to him, not just the ones from the last 10 months.

For the Wii it is the last 10 months, and for the Xbox 360 it is the last 22 (well 11 and 23 at this point). This is the concept you cannot seem to grasp.

[Kupek]

Sine's looking at it from the perspective of a consumer. Seeker is looking at it from the perspective of the company that made the system. A rational consumer* does not care about the life history of a console, they just want to play games. A company does care about the life history of a console, because that represents an investment, and they want a return.

* We are not rational.