Sword of Truth fans!

[Shellie]

Let's hope he doesnt screw it up.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844653/

[Chris]

hmmm....septical but.....sam raimi

[Julius Seeker]

Let's hope he doewsnt screw it up.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844653/

Yeah, I have been keeping an eye on this one. I really enjoyed Hercules, and the mini-series turned into a major television series which was quite good as well.

[Ishamael]

Ugh. Why this series?

[Julius Seeker]

Ugh. Why this series?

What do you have against it?

[Flip]

I still read it and while it is entertaining, Goodkind is getting preachier and preachier. I think i ranted a while back on how perfect Goodkind makes the main character, Richard, too. It is almost sickening. I like more complex main characters, Richard is predictable and just too damn perfect to be likable... The stories themselves read fast and are action packed, though, so its a good read.

[Ishamael]

Ugh. Why this series?

What do you have against it?

It's alright I guess, but out of all the major modern fantasy epics I've read (WoT, Prince of Nothing, Songs of Ice and Fire, Erikson's stuff, etc), I consider it the weakest. Thus, I'd rather see the energy go into something I think is better, but I think Raimi could probably make a fun group of films around this material.

[Julius Seeker]

Ugh. Why this series?

What do you have against it?

It's alright I guess, but out of all the major modern fantasy epics I've read (WoT, Prince of Nothing, Songs of Ice and Fire, Erikson's stuff, etc), I consider it the weakest. Thus, I'd rather see the energy go into something I think is better, but I think Raimi could probably make a fun group of films around this material.

Only books from Wheel of Time and Sword of Truth have been New York Times Best sellers of those ones you mentioned. But neither are major modern fantasy series (that title is reserved for Middle Earth, Narnia, Star Wars, Harry Potter, and possibly Earthsea).

Of the three I have read, Jordan, Goodkind, and Martin, I found Martin's to be the worst series. It seems to have its moments, but they are few and far between a lot of trashy. The characters are frustratingly unrealistic and stupid most of the time. I just could not shake the feeling that this is something a Junior High Student would write; one with not much experience in life.

I would like to read Erikson though, I have heard some good things.

[Flip]

I couldnt even finish Eriksons first book. I had heard good things about it, too, but it is way out there as far as fantasy and writing style. There seems to be no rules to the magic and he jumps around a lot.

I find Martin a refreshing change from other fantasy writers. There is no main character and all the points of view he writes from are vastly unique and complex. He said it himself once that there will never be a character that is truly evil or good. They are all conflicted about something. I hated Jaime at first and now like him, i thought Cersei was a cold hearted bitch and now i sympathize... the list could go on and on. I think it takes a lot of writing skill to write such different personalitites into his points of view characters. Most books follow 1 to 3characters, Martin does 6 to 8!

Yeah, he can get racy, but so what, it makes it more interesting and real. I feel as if if there actually was a medieval world out there with a little but of fantasy sprinkled in that he depicts what it would acutally be like. Gruesome. The Middle Ages was not so much a happy time period and leaders didnt have much education, it was a lot of war between idiots and Martin follows suit. Not that he doesnt have extremely smart characters, too.

[Shellie]

Well its set to be out this year..though IMDB says its still in pre-production. I really am excited about this. I can't wait to see a Mord-Sith live

[Lox]

I actually have found Martin's characters to be the most realistic just because, as Flip said, there is no b&w good or evil. Everyone has their motivations and their points of view and it's ultimately up to the reader to decide if they sympathize with that character or hate them. Of course some characters are harder to like than others, I think (like many of the Greyjoys), but most of them can be taken from many different angles.

Have you read A Feast for Crows, Flip? After going through that, I kind of sympathize with Cersei, but I also think she's a fool.

I've never read the SoT books and I don't think I'll get around to them anytime soon, but this could be good. They're supposedly still working on the ASoIaF HBO series as well.

[Julius Seeker]

I actually have found Martin's characters to be the most realistic just because, as Flip said, there is no b&w good or evil.

I disagree on both points, in A Game of Thrones there is no mistaking Arya or Bran for a villain or the Lannisters (barring the dwarf) for anything but villains. There were plenty of characters very clearly good, and plenty very clearly villains, and of course, the zombies and such from the North were pure evil. Characters who fall into the grey area and villains with motivations are also extremely common in all modern fantasy (modern fantasy as established by Tolkien).

I mean, sure characters change in later books, but it mostly feels unnatural and illogical; which goes on to why I disagree witht he first point. Jaime Lannister's change from a cunning evil power hungry monster, to a stupid half witted moron who is playing at being somewhat good; that is NOT realistic. Nor is it realistic to portray a guy (Little Finger) in the narration as being a genius, and have him behave rather peasantish in the intelligence department.

Martin's first book showed A LOT of promise, but I think that perhaps this story should have been a 1 book venture.

I did find that the characters in both Wheel of Time and Sword of Truth were much more human than those in the Game of Thrones series.



Oh, and I have high hopes for the Wizard's First Rule miniseries. Considering how entertaining I found Hercules season 1, when it obviously had a very small budget, I do think that Raimi's team can easily pull this off. Of course they have screwed up before, Jack of All Trades.

[Lox]

I disagree on both points, in A Game of Thrones there is no mistaking Arya or Bran for a villain or the Lannisters (barring the dwarf) for anything but villains. There were plenty of characters very clearly good, and plenty very clearly villains, and of course, the zombies and such from the North were pure evil. Characters who fall into the grey area and villains with motivations are also extremely common in all modern fantasy (modern fantasy as established by Tolkien).

I mean, sure characters change in later books, but it mostly feels unnatural and illogical; which goes on to why I disagree witht he first point. Jaime Lannister's change from a cunning evil power hungry monster, to a stupid half witted moron who is playing at being somewhat good; that is NOT realistic. Nor is it realistic to portray a guy (Little Finger) in the narration as being a genius, and have him behave rather peasantish in the intelligence department.

I think you're wrong there. By the 3rd or 4th book, Arya has begun to do many questionable things. [AFFC spoiler] Killing Dareon for deserting the Nights Watch is an example. And I never viewed the Lannisters as totally evil. Jaime started as a self-righteous jerk, but you eventually learn how tight the connection is between him and Cersei. Even her actions early on seem more evil than good but begin to slide within the next few books.

I've never looked at Jaime as turning into someone who is a "stupid half witted moron who is playing at being somewhat good". I'm not sure what you're basing that on. I disagree about Littlefinger too. Yeah, he's smart and some of his current moves seem less intelligent, but we don't know his end game nor do we know his entire motive.

[Julius Seeker]

I think you're wrong there. By the 3rd or 4th book, Arya has begun to do many questionable things. [AFFC spoiler] Killing Dareon for deserting the Nights Watch is an example. And I never viewed the Lannisters as totally evil. Jaime started as a self-righteous jerk, but you eventually learn how tight the connection is between him and Cersei. Even her actions early on seem more evil than good but begin to slide within the next few books.

That shift in personality doesn't make the characters appear less pure villain or pure good, it just means the author decided to change their personalities in later books. In the first book the Lannisters were purely villains (again, minus the dwarf Lannister, I forget his name), then in third book that had changed; and illogically so, these changes didn't really make sense and seemed like the author just decided to change his mind on his characters, or kill them.

I've never looked at Jaime as turning into someone who is a "stupid half witted moron who is playing at being somewhat good". I'm not sure what you're basing that on. I disagree about Littlefinger too. Yeah, he's smart and some of his current moves seem less intelligent, but we don't know his end game nor do we know his entire motive.

I am basing this on some chapters in the third book which focus on Jaime, his character reads as though he has the mentality of an 8 year old. His character was nothing like what it was in the first book, it was a totally different character. The shift in personality was not logical or natural feeling at all. The third book overall really turned me off the series, but stuff like this was only a part of it; I think my major dislike was due to the lack of focus that Martin had on a decent plot, it seemed to be loaded with filler. The first book was much better than the preceding two due to the story being fairly focussed and with a lot less filler; the third book was easily the worst, and I have no interest in reading the fourth.

I just don't get the sense that the author even cares about the story. I feel he just wants to cash in, after writing a first book which received a reasonable amount of critical praise; the increasingly trashy content seems to be proof of that.

[Lox]

I still disagree on your take on Jaime (and the other characters probably). I thought his change followed a very natural progression.

Self-centered jerk (no care about honor as everyone considers him a kingslayer) -> Captured by Robb Stark (takes him down a notch) -> Released by Catelyn (where she forces him to swear an oath not to fight against the Starks or Tullys again) -> Hand cut off by Brave Companions (he's now lost the single thing that made him who he was, his fighting hand) -> More awakened Jamie who actually seems to care about honor (and by this point we understand why he killed Aerys and it was, imo, justified).

Also, knowing what we know about Jaime and the circumstances around his murder of the king and how he has been deemed an honorless kingslayer by pretty much everyone, it paints the previous books in a different light for me. He becomes less villanous in AGoT to me because of this new information.

As for Arya, I also think the changes make sense. She's gone from the privileged daughter of a lord to living like a street rat, fending for herself, and constantly being put in danger. Over the course of the books, she's been forced to grow up very, very fast and she is constantly struggling with being the scared, little mouse she was and the tough, knows-no-fear fighter she wants to be so that she can avenge those she cares about.

But, I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on that, so we might just have to agree to disagree. Which is ok! Or maybe we'll sort it out in March with some SSBB. hehe

[Julius Seeker]

Best of 500 over the course of 2008?

[Lox]

Yeah, works for me.

I gotta practice for a while first though cuz I haven't played SSBM in forever. haha

[Julius Seeker]

Same here actually. So we're on even footing.

[Flip]

Lox and I are on the same page. I feel as if Martin is an amazing author who is weaving one hell of a web. I read fairly slowly and like to absorb books in, which makes for remembering a lot of the details. If you think his chapters are filler, you just arent looking close enough. There are so many tie-ins to everything, even 3 boosk later, that i would bet just looking at his self-made notes for the whole story would give anyone a headache. You almost need to re-read the series three times, and you still wouldnt get them all.

His English, writing, and grammar are fantasic, IMO. I dont know how Seek could possibly say him or any of the characters stupid... The characters dont change personalities, either, you just learn more about them. On the surface anyone can look like anything, its the story behind who they are that defines them, Martin gives you that backstory. I find this much more enjoyable than a character, say, like Richard Raul who is pointed out as good and holy from the very beginning and has no depth at all in him to prove otherwise. How boring is that? I know i've met people in real lift who were total jerks, only to later get to know them and become really good friends...

I have read the last book, Lox, and i admit that i thought it was the weakest of the bunch so far. The cliffhanger is devastating and i cant wait for A Dance with Dragons.