Spies in fiction

[Don]

Back in high school, I had a history teacher who went to Russia back when it was the USSR. He had to pull some strings to get there since it was the Cold War after all. He brought some students who were blabbering about freedom and capitalism, so he thinks the KGB might be on to him. So the class asked him did he see any KGB spies, and he said if he know who the KGB spies are, then they wouldn't belong in the KGB in the first place.

Now I'm not saying if you're watching an action flick like James Bond or whatever it's wrong for a spy guy to appear in a black spy suit and gets seen a mile away. Obviously these movies aren't really about the fine art of covert operations. But what bothers me is that anything that attempts to pass itself as realistic and people don't seem to even research on this for knowledge you can probably find on the Learning Channel. It should be pretty obvious if an FBI/KGB/whatever agent is onto you, it'd be pretty difficult to spot one let alone outwit one. Obviously the most recent example I can think of is Death Note, but there's plenty of other examples of this where your best elite agents from top spying agencies are pretty much worse than an average kid for whatever you need them to do.

Is this because it'd be tough to have a story of any kind if spies are actually as good as real spies, or is it because people simply don't even research? A lot of the time I got the feeling that it's the latter, that whoever wrote/draw about the dumb spy probably thinks he can spot one if one was on him.

[Kupek]

Is most of the fiction you absorb anime? If so, well, there's your answer.

I thought Spy Game was a decent treatment of espionage because the CIA agents spent most of their time recruiting spies, which is what real field agents do. Members of the CIA don't do much spying themselves; they recruit people to do it for them.

[Tessian]

Are you going to start asking us about whether the DaVinci Code was real? I think someone needs to sit Don down and explain to him the difference between fiction and nonfiction...

Of course it's not that obvious in real life, if it was wtf would be the point in spying? Your comparisons with Death Note of all things is just sadly inadequate... for starters remember that Light KNEW he was being followed and that alone gives him an advantage along with his police training and freakin shinigami telling him.

[Blotus]

There was a DaVinci Code anime?

[Don]

Are you going to start asking us about whether the DaVinci Code was real? I think someone needs to sit Don down and explain to him the difference between fiction and nonfiction...

Of course it's not that obvious in real life, if it was wtf would be the point in spying? Your comparisons with Death Note of all things is just sadly inadequate... for starters remember that Light KNEW he was being followed and that alone gives him an advantage along with his police training and freakin shinigami telling him.

I think someone needs to tell you the difference between what's real or not if you believe whatever FBI agents they sent to spy on Light could be easily caught just because he has an extra pair of eyes (and Deaths are not anywhere near omniscient).

Then again maybe the target audience knowledge does appropriately reflect the amount of research Anime has into just about anything they try to portray.

Someone on the DN boards once made a post how if you even seen something like a Learning Channel detective special or whatever, then nothing they do in DN can possibly make sense. But I guess that'd be expecting too much.

[RentCavalier]

Anime.

Since when the HELL has anime EVER been realistic? Even the sports shows--ones that ought be grounded in realism--are full of mach-10 ball kicks and fireball fingers.

Fuck it man, they made an ANIME about BAKING. Though, in its defense, Yakitate! Japan is actually a relatively educational show, but STILL.

Stop watching anime if you want realism. People with abnormally huge eyes and pink hair are not characters you want to judge based on the rules of reality.

[Don]

Just because it's animated, doesn't mean realism goes out of the window.

The various organization in the world of DN is supposed to function like their real life counterparts. They are supposed to have a level of competenece above spy-in-a-black-suit-that-everyone-can-see kind of deal. L basically has access to anything the FBI has, but inexplicably has none of the technological wonders at its disposal until he called in more guys from the alphabet organization. At that point they were magically able to hack into anything and put undetectable cameras on everything.

The evolution of Silent Fleet to Zephin (sp?) is a good example. Both are about Japanese being infused with divine-like powers to beat the USA. The first story takes place in modern era, where the Japanese Jesus, Kaeda, hijacked a US submarine and proceeded to obliterate the entire US fleet, blowing up more ships than he has in torpedoes (Jesus can create torpedo out of salt water apparently). This manga is considered ridiculously stupid by anyone who takes warfare seriously, especially because this is supposd to take place 100% in reality.

The next series, also written by the same guy, this time has Japan sending back a modern era, fully loaded aircraft carrier back to WW2 to own the US. Although the underlying premise hasn't changed (Japan will rule the world!), here the scenario is quite a bit more plausible. A modern Carrier has at least the firepower of a navy fleet back in WW2, and of course the guys they sent back is also armed with knowledge of what has already happened. So here the author can continue his Japanese imperial rule stuff without being ridiculed as utter nonsense. Now you might not have to like what he has to say, but this time he's done his research and figured out how to send enough firepower back in time to write what he wants to write about. This is a plausible world. The only nonrealistic part is the initial part that involves Japanese sending back a Carrier back in time. After that, the author gave himself enough firepower to work with to write WW2 the way he wants. In fact he actually handicapped the Japanese because otherwise it'd be too easy for one of them to call up Hilter and go like "Psst D-Day is coming, better get ready".

[Kupek]

Just because it's animated, doesn't mean realism goes out of the window.

This is true, but most of anime is probably made for teenagers.

[Tessian]

I think someone needs to tell you the difference between what's real or not if you believe whatever FBI agents they sent to spy on Light could be easily caught just because he has an extra pair of eyes (and Deaths are not anywhere near omniscient).

Way to ignore half of what I said-- I only mentioned the shinigami telling him shit as a side note; the main reasons it was so easy was because a) he KNEW he was being followed, and b) he already had advance knowledge of police tactics. Kinda makes it a LOT easier to find someone spying on you when you KNOW there's someone spying on you. The greatest tool a spy has is the fact that the target does not know they're being spied on at all, or only suspects it. Very rarely do they KNOW they're being spied on. They're trained to simply act and behave like another random person; a totally unrememberable figure in your day's activities. This is a lot harder to achieve if the target knows there's someone watching them.

That being said, for even DN it was stupid to throw americans into japan to spy-- talk about already calling attention to yourself.

[Don]

I think someone needs to tell you the difference between what's real or not if you believe whatever FBI agents they sent to spy on Light could be easily caught just because he has an extra pair of eyes (and Deaths are not anywhere near omniscient).

Way to ignore half of what I said-- I only mentioned the shinigami telling him shit as a side note; the main reasons it was so easy was because a) he KNEW he was being followed, and b) he already had advance knowledge of police tactics. Kinda makes it a LOT easier to find someone spying on you when you KNOW there's someone spying on you. The greatest tool a spy has is the fact that the target does not know they're being spied on at all, or only suspects it. Very rarely do they KNOW they're being spied on. They're trained to simply act and behave like another random person; a totally unrememberable figure in your day's activities. This is a lot harder to achieve if the target knows there's someone watching them.

That being said, for even DN it was stupid to throw americans into japan to spy-- talk about already calling attention to yourself.

His father is a policeman, not a member of the Japanese Special Forces or whatever. While he might know more about these stuff than the average guy, it's hard to imagine the son of a policeman easily outwit whatever veteran spy they'd send on someone who is probably like one of the most wanted criminal in the world. Besides, in DN's world the Japanese police is portrayed as below useless (since they basically do nothing but mess up L's plan, N and M both remarked how useless the Japanese police are), so one would assume whatever he learned from the Japanese police probably isn't too useful.

Not to mention the fact that he has a police background would suggest whoever they send to spy on him should be really, really good. You'd think it's a job for a someone in L's organization like one of those super hacker he has, but instead it seems like they assumed the resident newb to follow a dangerous suspect who, like you said, at least has some knowledge of how these covert ops ought to work.

Situation like this would be a good time to invoke some extra divine power. Like maybe the Deaths could see someone who is threatening the life of the DN owner and warn him about it. In the epilogue it's implied you can hire your personal Death with a payment of apples, so why not?