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Except the story totally sucked. I was HIGHLY disappointed in how light the politics were and how they just left certain things hanging (the Occuria). FFT had 10x a better story than FFXXI. The music for FFT was also 10x better. (FFXII only really had one good song in the game.)RentCavalier wrote:Also: FFXII kicked ass.
That's because Matsuno wasn't allowed as much charge over the story as he should have had. It frustrated him to the point that he ended up having a break-down in the middle of the project.SineSwiper wrote:Ever since I met the Occurian, I thought "Hey, that's the real enemy". That was the only part of the plot that actually interested me. But instead of trying to defeat that enemy, we defeat Vayne, and NOTHING IS EVER DONE to the Occurian! Drove me fucking crazy, because I kept thinking that they would go back to them to get rid of that menace.
There was not the sense of despair that you got from FFT. In FFT, you saw how commoners were treated (like shit), with an entire chapter revolving around that theme. You saw everybody trying everything in their power to elevate themselves (except yourself and your crew, who were just trying to survive), ranging from backstabbing friends to assassinations. You saw that even the religious icons were bullshit and they were worshiping an evil deity. Even Ramza's own brother (Dycedarg) kills his other brother (Zalbag) after finding out that Dycedarg killed his father by poison, and then Zalbag gets brought back as a zombie, which Ramza is forced to kill. Even the writer of the story was killed during heresy charges for trying to tell the truth of the Lion War, and the whole story is only brought back to life 50 years later by the narrator.
By the time you finish the game, you truly believe that you overcame the odds, and you get a glimpse of what happened on the other side after all of the backstabbing, and what it got them in the end. With FF12, I was just confused by dumb reactions and predictable betrayals.
From Parish's long but insightful review: http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/ind ... FantasyXIIAnd in fact, the conflict between the two visions eventually proved too great to reconcile. Matsuno left Square, and the game's development, amidst a flurry of rumor and innuendo. Did he go nuts? Did he have a breakdown? Yeah, maybe. But maybe not. Maybe more concrete clues to his departure can be found by reading between the lines of the FFXII Scenario Ultimania book, which reportedly includes info on Matsuno's original conceptual treatments for the game. In his vision, FFXII would have had more in common with his PlayStation magnum opus Vagrant Story? -- a dark tale with a mature main character seeking to unmake the betrayal that destroyed his life: Basch.
The gulf between this alternate reality of FFXII and what we were actually given, the one starring plucky teenaged protagonist Vaan, suggests that Matsuno's departure had more to do with an auteur unwilling to compromise his creation than it did with panic attacks. Whatever the case, Square Enix certainly isn't talking -- I even asked the game's pinch-hitter replacement producer, Akitoshi Kawazu, myself -- so until Matsuno fills us in, it's all just a load of unfounded speculation anyway.
Well, you can argue the main character of FF12 is either Basch or Balthier, but it sure isn't Vaan or Ashe. I'd lean more toward Basch, but the game never capitalized on him & Gabranth, mostly because you don't get to fight Gabranth until the 2nd to last dungeon in the game.Kupek wrote:I played FF12 over a span of about 7 (or more) months, so I was completely lost most times I hit major plot points. Surprisingly, Seeker's point is valid: I think Matsuno had a clear story and themes he wanted to deal with, but things changed when he left. If Vaan and Penelo seem incidental to the plot, that's probably because they were tacked on at the end for the player to have a vantage point.
Oh, screw it, I'll just borrow Jeremy Parish's words directly.
From Parish's long but insightful review: http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/ind ... FantasyXIIAnd in fact, the conflict between the two visions eventually proved too great to reconcile. Matsuno left Square, and the game's development, amidst a flurry of rumor and innuendo. Did he go nuts? Did he have a breakdown? Yeah, maybe. But maybe not. Maybe more concrete clues to his departure can be found by reading between the lines of the FFXII Scenario Ultimania book, which reportedly includes info on Matsuno's original conceptual treatments for the game. In his vision, FFXII would have had more in common with his PlayStation magnum opus Vagrant Story? -- a dark tale with a mature main character seeking to unmake the betrayal that destroyed his life: Basch.
The gulf between this alternate reality of FFXII and what we were actually given, the one starring plucky teenaged protagonist Vaan, suggests that Matsuno's departure had more to do with an auteur unwilling to compromise his creation than it did with panic attacks. Whatever the case, Square Enix certainly isn't talking -- I even asked the game's pinch-hitter replacement producer, Akitoshi Kawazu, myself -- so until Matsuno fills us in, it's all just a load of unfounded speculation anyway.
I have a feeling that Square didn't want to "pollute" their Final Fantasy series name with a dark tale, even though both FFT and Vagrant Story were very well received and made a ton of money. Square went the sell out route, something that would be tailored to the mass audience.Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:The game was incredible, but it could have been moreso. Oh well. Hopefully Matsuno will resurface someday.
My thoughts exactly.The Review wrote:No doubt XIII will feature very impressive visuals and some clever combat rules and impressive character-twinking possibilities and an inventive new take on the concept of amnesiac heroes who have to save the the world from a beautiful, porcelain-skinned megalomaniac that wants to become a new god. But it likely won't be a brilliant, innovative fusion of numerous disparate styles, a synthesis of western and eastern RPG tradition, a collaboration of single- and multi-player RPG concepts.
They did the same thing to Tetsuya Takahashi (Xenogears) as well. Of course, they messed over Matsuno worse, but in the end Square lost two of their best people.SineSwiper wrote:Ahhh, that explains everything. Good job, Square! Fucked up another one!
if Matsuno hadn't left, the game would still not be out yet. SE definitely screwed FF12 up from being a much better game than it could be but i doubt Matsuno should be free from blame for the whole fiasco.RentCavalier wrote:It's true--had Matsuno not left, the game would have been incredible.
you're supposed to believe that Ashe was the handpicked tool of the Occurian and since she defied them and allowed the Sun-Cryst to be destroyed the hold the Occurians have on the world is also severed. the Occurian are suppose to have some pact of no direct involvement so once their tool was lost they are no longer a threat.SineSwiper wrote:But instead of trying to defeat that enemy, we defeat Vayne, and NOTHING IS EVER DONE to the Occurian! Drove me fucking crazy, because I kept thinking that they would go back to them to get rid of that menace.
why is Basch important at all? he seemed completely filler to me after Leviathan. Ashe was a crappy main character but she made all the decisions in the storyline once she established herself in the party.Don Wang wrote:Well, you can argue the main character of FF12 is either Basch or Balthier, but it sure isn't Vaan or Ashe. I'd lean more toward Basch, but the game never capitalized on him & Gabranth, mostly because you don't get to fight Gabranth until the 2nd to last dungeon in the game.
but that's the whole game, the game ends after she delivers the Sword of Kings to the Sun-Cryst (Bahamut is a lose end that's mostly unrelated to the majority of the story before it). it's true that anyone can use the sword but she was necessary in getting it and she was necessary on deciding who gets to use it.Don Wang wrote:Her function in the game is to deliver the Sword of Kings and after that there's no reason for her to be there.
