PSP support dwindling

[Zeus]

Edge (ie. Next Gen) seems to think so and they make a good case

http://www.edge-online.com/features/thi ... doning-psp

[SineSwiper]

Next: the PS3.

[RentCavalier]

Next: the PS3.

And then...THE WORLD!

[Eric]

I'm surprised it lasted as long as it has.

I'm curious how God of War and Final Fantasy: Crisis Core sold.

[Zeus]

I'm surprised it lasted as long as it has.

I'm curious how God of War and Final Fantasy: Crisis Core sold.

I'd like to know the bundle vs no bundle for God of War.

Well, they didn't exactly light up the NPD charts but I would imagine a few hundred thousand each.

The PSP is a great piece of hardware as a one-in-all solution. It does have some excellent games but that's not what people are buying it for. Even in Japan outside of Monster Hunter the real reason people are buying it is 'cause they can put all the music and shows on it they want.

[SineSwiper]

Combine a multimedia device with another multimedia device and it usually fails. A camera phone is either a poor camera or a poor phone. N-Gage wasn't good at anything. The iPhone and Blackberry morphs into something that doesn't look like a phone at all, so you have people speaking into a flat screen like they were crazy. Either that, or they're forced to use a bluetooth.

[Zeus]

Oh, I completely agree. I have a simple rule when it comes to multi-device electronics: anything that does everything doesn't do anything well.

But in this particular case, the PSP is passable for all 3 things it can do relatively well: play music, movies, and games. Yes, it's very large as an mp3 player but still small enough to fit in your pocket, particularly the slim (make sure you use the sleeve or you'll scratch the shit out of that super-sensitive screen). The screen is a little small for movies and TV shows but as a single-person device, it's just big enough to be good enough while you're on the go, particularly when compared to the screens on all other mobile devices save for portable DVD players (WAY better than your iPod or cellphone). I've watched many movies on it in the car or camping and it's fine. It's fine for the games developed for it and there's a good enough number of them now.

This Skype thing is a pure extra that only very few would use and not something you buy the system for (I may try it out as I don't have a cell). The GPS would be kind of neat but I imagine it won't be nearly as user-friendly as a Blackberry or iPhone one and not a reason to buy. Same with surfing the 'Net which is actually quite cumbersome on it.

[Julius Seeker]

My cellphone's screen is actually superior to the PSP. It has a 480 x 320 screen, which is better than the 480 x 272 PSP screen.

[Zeus]

My cellphone's screen is actually superior to the PSP. It has a 480 x 320 screen, which is better than the 480 x 272 PSP screen.

Your cellphone has a 5 1/4 inch screen? I'm talking size more than resolution

[Julius Seeker]

The PSP has a 4.3 inch screen. My Cellphone has a 3.5 inch screen.

[Zeus]

The PSP has a 4.3 inch screen. My Cellphone has a 3.5 inch screen.

Sorry, 4.3". Still, you're talking about a 25% increase. When they're that small it makes a huge difference

[Julius Seeker]

The PSP has a 4.3 inch screen. My Cellphone has a 3.5 inch screen.

Sorry, 4.3". Still, you're talking about a 25% increase. When they're that small it makes a huge difference

I don't find much difference at all. There are also a lot of other advantages my cellphone has; it's much more powerful than a PSP for one thing, the interface is far superior, it's no where near as bulky, and I can write notes on it very quickly; so if I am bored and want to write for a while, I can do that with ease. The PSP has games, that's its advantage, but the DS (which I carry around too) has many more games. This is why I am surprised Sony has not yet announced PSP2, I expected the announcement around E3 or GC, but nothing; Cell phones have shot way ahead.

On a side note, I am expecting Nintendo to announce the DS or GBA successor very soon, even though DS is still an incredibly healthy system at this time.

[Flip]

The PSP has a 4.3 inch screen. My Cellphone has a 3.5 inch screen.

Sorry, 4.3". Still, you're talking about a 25% increase. When they're that small it makes a huge difference

I don't find much difference at all. There are also a lot of other advantages my cellphone has; it's much more powerful than a PSP for one thing, the interface is far superior, it's no where near as bulky, and I can write notes on it very quickly; so if I am bored and want to write for a while, I can do that with ease. The PSP has games, that's its advantage, but the DS (which I carry around too) has many more games. This is why I am surprised Sony has not yet announced PSP2, I expected the announcement around E3 or GC, but nothing; Cell phones have shot way ahead.

On a side note, I am expecting Nintendo to announce the DS or GBA successor very soon, even though DS is still an incredibly healthy system at this time.

If youre telling me your phone can play Crisis Core, GoW, Patapon, and R&C, then more power to you. What phone do yo use? I seriously doubt it has the capability to play movies/shows off a memory card. Music and pictures, probably.

[Julius Seeker]

A 16GB 3G iPhone. I already stated games as an advantage of PSP over the phone; why bring it up?

[Kupek]

The PSP has a 4.3 inch screen. My Cellphone has a 3.5 inch screen.

Sorry, 4.3". Still, you're talking about a 25% increase. When they're that small it makes a huge difference

Actually, it's closer to a 33% increase, assuming both his cell phone and the PSP have the same 16:9 dimensions. Remember that area increases with the square of length.

(Yes, I did the math for this; a^2 + b^2 = c^2, and the PSP is widescreen in the 16:9 format, you know that a = (16/9)b, and c is 4.3 for the PSP and 3.5 for his cell phone. Then a*b gives you the actual screen area in inches squared. Yes, I realize I am both smart and stupid at the same time.)

[Flip]

Ugh, iPhone, why doesnt that surprise me?

If needing to carry two devices, i'd much rather go with a BB PSP combo as opposed to DS iPhone. The only thing BB/PSP would fall behind in is web browsing, but would be superior in all other categories. Music, games, video, e-mail push, etc.

[Julius Seeker]

Ugh, iPhone, why doesnt that surprise me?

If needing to carry two devices, i'd much rather go with a BB PSP combo as opposed to DS iPhone. The only thing BB/PSP would fall behind in is web browsing, but would be superior in all other categories. Music, games, video, e-mail push, etc.

Errr, congratulations???

Most people will find the iPhone/DS combo vastly superior.

[Zeus]

The PSP has a 4.3 inch screen. My Cellphone has a 3.5 inch screen.

Sorry, 4.3". Still, you're talking about a 25% increase. When they're that small it makes a huge difference

Actually, it's closer to a 33% increase, assuming both his cell phone and the PSP have the same 16:9 dimensions. Remember that area increases with the square of length.

(Yes, I did the math for this; a^2 + b^2 = c^2, and the PSP is widescreen in the 16:9 format, you know that a = (16/9)b, and c is 4.3 for the PSP and 3.5 for his cell phone. Then a*b gives you the actual screen area in inches squared. Yes, I realize I am both smart and stupid at the same time.)

Gosh, you just have to drag math into the equation, don't you? :-)

Fine, I looked just at the distance as opposed to the area. Happy PhD boy? :-)

But you did just strengthen my case. I didn't realize Seek was talking about an iPhone. There's no way you can even compare the two. Sure you can mostly tell what's going on with the iPhone but the PSP is MUCH bigger. Even the PSP is barely big enough IMO, I'd still prefer a 7" screen minimum. But it's passable the iPhone is not. I've tried watching stuff on my bud's iTouch it's horrible if you have any level of detail. Much better than the iPod video but still not good enough for me.

[Julius Seeker]

Gosh, you just have to drag math into the equation, don't you? :-)

Fine, I looked just at the distance as opposed to the area. Happy PhD boy? :-)

But you did just strengthen my case. I didn't realize Seek was talking about an iPhone. There's no way you can even compare the two. Sure you can mostly tell what's going on with the iPhone but the PSP is MUCH bigger. Even the PSP is barely big enough IMO, I'd still prefer a 7" screen minimum. But it's passable the iPhone is not. I've tried watching stuff on my bud's iTouch it's horrible if you have any level of detail. Much better than the iPod video but still not good enough for me.

The iPhone screen size is fine, and the screen is superior to the PSP's. It has a much better quality (The pixel dimensions on the iPhone are larger) and doesn't scratch like the PSP screen does (as you stated before, the PSP screen scratches easily). I would attribute your anti-iPhone stance to your bias against Apple, which is well documented; otherwise, I can't see why you would think the PSP is better; a mere 0.8 inch diameter is not very convincing, especially for a handheld device since you can just hold it closer to you.

[Zeus]

Gosh, you just have to drag math into the equation, don't you? :-)

Fine, I looked just at the distance as opposed to the area. Happy PhD boy? :-)

But you did just strengthen my case. I didn't realize Seek was talking about an iPhone. There's no way you can even compare the two. Sure you can mostly tell what's going on with the iPhone but the PSP is MUCH bigger. Even the PSP is barely big enough IMO, I'd still prefer a 7" screen minimum. But it's passable the iPhone is not. I've tried watching stuff on my bud's iTouch it's horrible if you have any level of detail. Much better than the iPod video but still not good enough for me.

The iPhone screen size is fine, and the screen is superior to the PSP's. It has a much better quality (The pixel dimensions on the iPhone are larger) and doesn't scratch like the PSP screen does (as you stated before, the PSP screen scratches easily). I would attribute your anti-iPhone stance to your bias against Apple, which is well documented; otherwise, I can't see why you would think the PSP is better; a mere 0.8 inch diameter is not very convincing, especially for a handheld device since you can just hold it closer to you.

As Kup pointed out, the 0.8 in difference actually results in about a 33% larger screen area. It's noticeable on things that are that small, particularly when watching a widescreen movie with lots of detail. I've tried it.....have you tried watching a detailed movie on the PSP vs the iPod? Oh wait, the PSP is a Sony device which would go against the Nintendo fanboy stance. So of course you haven't. I've actually fiddled with an iTouch quite a bit during our game development. We moved from XBLA to the iTouch/iPhone further proving my bias against Apple.

The PSP screen scratches far too easily, I agree. I take extra care with mine 'cause of that. It hardly ever leaves its Logitech case because of that and I'm actually gonna modify it for the Slim since the motherless fucks at Sony moved the headphone port. It's a nice screen but it's far too sensitive. I've never denied that.

If you re-read that link you put up you'll realize it's the Apple fans and not their products that I dislike. I even mention in that thread that I think their products are good quality. I actually think the iPhone is a neat device, just not for me (mp3s are the #3 function on the PSP and my hatred of cellphones is well documented). You guys don't really like to read my posts do you? Ya'll seem to be missing the point quite often even when it appears to be worded very clearly. Maybe I'm not wordy and/or clear enough. I'll try bolding and maybe Kup-like italics from now on so you don't miss the point of the posts.

The PSP is better for games and watching movies because of the screen size. I don't like to have the ability to lick the screen when watching something. I want it on my stomach or further not closer. iPhone's screen is just too small for my liking and my general use as I'm often ripping movies and TV shows onto it.

[Flip]

I put one of those clear static films on my PSP screen and i dont notice it at all or have to worry about the scratches; Horti brand.

The iPhone is a piece of shit. It syncs to Outlook now, which it should have at launch, but it also erases the addresses you manually input when you sync because it always gives the outlook address book priority. Not viable for businesses at all since most of them use Exchange. Its slow as balls for the internet, dies in two hours, and is also prone to the damages of every other cell phone. Who doesnt drop their phone every once in a while?

Apple is a marketing genius and they feed the sheep. The fact that Seek is a sheep is not surprising to me one bit. Your shitty phone compliments your shitty gaming devices.

[SineSwiper]

I have a few co-workers who tried to use the Outlook option, but since it drains the batteries faster than Chris can drain a cock, it's practically useless. It's literally like 3-4 hours of battery life.

[Zeus]

I put one of those clear static films on my PSP screen and i dont notice it at all or have to worry about the scratches; Horti brand.

The iPhone is a piece of shit. It syncs to Outlook now, which it should have at launch, but it also erases the addresses you manually input when you sync because it always gives the outlook address book priority. Not viable for businesses at all since most of them use Exchange. Its slow as balls for the internet, dies in two hours, and is also prone to the damages of every other cell phone. Who doesnt drop their phone every once in a while?

Apple is a marketing genius and they feed the sheep. The fact that Seek is a sheep is not surprising to me one bit. Your shitty phone compliments your shitty gaming devices.

I've been hearing from people at work and from my cuz's that the iPhone can't really compete with the Blackberry when you're talking about lots of use like you'd get in business. But I think for the regular consumer as opposed to the business consumer it suits their needs well...other than the short-ass battery life that is.

Apple has always marketed to the Apple customer. If you compare it to the competition, you can generally get the same functionality and quality with less flash for 20-40% less. You pay for the style or the "coolness" of their products which, admittedly, are pretty sleek and nice looking. It's the same with Sony. Why the fuck would I ever get a Sony HD TV when I can get the same functionality and quality from LG (or with SD TVs, Toshiba)? Because Sony is cool (thanks to their marketing) and it's something you show off. Same with overpaying for a Mercedes Benz.

The iPhone ain't a piece of shit, it's a really neat device that can do a lot of things, looks great, and is something you can show off. Some people like that. Maybe not me or you but some do and they're willing to pay for (and, in a lot of cases, don't know any better). It's just not the best bang for your buck or the necessarily the best for all functions, like for business use or watching movies.

[Flip]

I'l def give you that, zeus. If you want a phone that looks cool to your friends and can push your personal gmail account than i suppose the iPhone is the way to go. But, if you want to actually further your career (i.e. sync with microsoft exchange correctly), push your personal email, and have the ability to text your friends with ease (yes, the touch keyboard on iPhone is still terrible), then really a BB is your only choice at the moment.

I think competition in the marketplace is good, but the iPhone is so far from an actual smartphone with business capabilities, its laughable and left only for the 'wanna be cool' apple sheep.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

I guess I shouldn't expect any better, but hey, fuck you guys.

[bovine]

If I was in the market for a phone, had the dollars for it and the necessary plan, I would most certainly get the iphone. It has a lot of great features that I would enjoy (movies, music, a fair browser on a pretty screen). I don't own anything of the macintosh variety, but they have really put out a robust product that is worthy of some praise. What does this have to do with games again?

[Lox]

Actually, I'd say the new IPhone is pretty competitively priced. I just picked up an HTC Touch (also called the AT&T Tilt) and that thing cost me $200 which is the same as the new iPhone. Yeah, some Blackberries are a little cheaper, but you don't always get the same functionality. I wanted a touch screen, gps, qwerty keyboard, wifi, g3 speeds, etc. If the $200 Iphone was out, I'd have considered it. In the end I wanted Windows Mobile so I could write my own applications in Visual Studio and load them (if I wanted :p).

[Julius Seeker]

As Kup pointed out, the 0.8 in difference actually results in about a 33% larger screen area. It's noticeable on things that are that small, particularly when watching a widescreen movie with lots of detail. I've tried it.....have you tried watching a detailed movie on the PSP vs the iPod?

The pixel dimensions for the iPhone are larger than the PSP, the closer something is to you the larger it appears; think about that.

Oh wait, the PSP is a Sony device which would go against the Nintendo fanboy stance. So of course you haven't.

Yes Zeus, I have never owned a Sony product in my life before because I like Nintendo.

my hatred of cellphones is well documented.

And that can lead to bias against the iPhone; which is evidence enough for my point anyway.

The PSP is better for games

The PSP is better for games than the iPhone, but still not a very good selection of software; DS is lightyears ahead.

and watching movies because of the screen size. I don't like to have the ability to lick the screen when watching something. I want it on my stomach or further not closer.

Now that's just stupid, you're grasping straws here Zeus.

[Zeus]

I guess I shouldn't expect any better, but hey, fuck you guys.

This one you're gonna have to explain

[Zeus]

Seek, it's gonna be hell to quote that, so I'll just respond in bullet points below:

- that's the whole fucking point. In order to make the iPhone useful for movies, you have to put it too close to your face. It's the whole argument I've been making sayin' the iPhone ain't good for movie and is, to me, a deal breaker for this function

- neither myself nor, I would expect, anyone here would be able to point out a positive remark from you towards a non-Nintendo or non-Apple product when those two compete in the same market as a product from another company. I'm sure you've owned a Sony product just not a PSP or, likely, mp3s player (BTW, I actually dislike Sony's products in general). So it was pretty easy to make the deduction that you don't have and likely have hardly used a PSP

- but I have used an iTouch extensively. Same shit different pile. The only difference is the lack of a cellphone and the accompanying sodomization by Rogers. So to me it's superior than the iPhone and is exactly the same thing for the functions we're debating. No issues here

- I have NEVER argued that the DS doesn't slaughter the PSP in games. I was mentioning how the PSP has FAR superior gaming than the iPhone making that function far superior on the PSP. BTW, how the fuck did the DS enter this argument? I say it's related to my second point above

- it's not stupid, screen size is everything when you're talking about details in a retail film and the screens are that small.

[bovine]

I guess I shouldn't expect any better, but hey, fuck you guys.

This one you're gonna have to explain

I think Andrew is taking all mac-attacks as personal attacks to him. Andrew = Apple Computers.

The only problem I have with Apple Computers is that they don't support a lot of hardware that Windows supports. This support makes "PC"s cheaper and the stifled competition makes Apple hardware pretty, but very cheap and prone to breaking.

They make a pretty OS, just needs more driver support for absolutely everything.

[Zeus]

I guess I shouldn't expect any better, but hey, fuck you guys.

This one you're gonna have to explain

I think Andrew is taking all mac-attacks as personal attacks to him. Andrew = Apple Computers.

The only problem I have with Apple Computers is that they don't support a lot of hardware that Windows supports. This support makes "PC"s cheaper and the stifled competition makes Apple hardware pretty, but very cheap and prone to breaking.

They make a pretty OS, just needs more driver support for absolutely everything.

Ah, k. Well, that's pretty much my take on Apple as well

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

I think Andrew is taking all mac-attacks as personal attacks to him. Andrew = Apple Computers.

I'm naming my first-born child Steve, I tell you what.

I'm just a little bit over the relentless attacks not on Apple products (because it's no loss of mine if people don't know better!), but the people that buy them. Call me a sheep again, Flip!

[Eric]

I think Andrew is taking all mac-attacks as personal attacks to him. Andrew = Apple Computers.

I'm naming my first-born child Steve, I tell you what.

I'm just a little bit over the relentless attacks not on Apple products (because it's no loss of mine if people don't know better!), but the people that buy them. Call me a sheep again, Flip!

Baaaah, Baaaaah. :p

[Zeus]

I think Andrew is taking all mac-attacks as personal attacks to him. Andrew = Apple Computers.

I'm naming my first-born child Steve, I tell you what.

I'm just a little bit over the relentless attacks not on Apple products (because it's no loss of mine if people don't know better!), but the people that buy them. Call me a sheep again, Flip!

Yeah, Flip! Say you dislike the Apple purchasers again!

[Julius Seeker]

Zeus, you already lost the argument with these ignorant comments:

.....have you tried watching a detailed movie on the PSP vs the iPod? Oh wait, the PSP is a Sony device which would go against the Nintendo fanboy stance. So of course you haven't.

I don't like to have the ability to lick the screen when watching something. I want it on my stomach or further not closer. iPhone's screen is just too small for my liking and my general use as I'm often ripping movies and TV shows onto it.

and now you've added this additional ignorant comments:

neither myself nor, I would expect, anyone here would be able to point out a positive remark from you towards a non-Nintendo or non-Apple product when those two compete in the same market as a product from another company.

Apple has always marketed to the Apple customer. If you compare it to the competition, you can generally get the same functionality and quality with less flash for 20-40% less.

[Tessian]

I think Andrew is taking all mac-attacks as personal attacks to him. Andrew = Apple Computers.

I'm naming my first-born child Steve, I tell you what.

I'm just a little bit over the relentless attacks not on Apple products (because it's no loss of mine if people don't know better!), but the people that buy them. Call me a sheep again, Flip!

Oh please, the only reason people have a hatred for Apple is because of their douchebag lying in their commercials and the elitism that envelops every Apple fanboy. You're hated because you believe you're better than everyone else because you have a macbook instead of a PC and make that opinion well known.


The rest of this thread is pathetic-- it'd be less so if you all just started arguing who's dick was bigger. In case it needs pointing out... Seek you suck ass at arguing. I read this whole thread in one shot just now (hadn't come in here prior) and all I see is Zeus arguing points, and you either attacking his character or saying stupid ass shit like

"Most people will find the iPhone/DS combo vastly superior."

with absolutely nothing to back it up with. No argument, no reasons, no facts... just stupid ass one liners that you have no way to back up or expand upon. Bring some REASON into the debate instead of just saying "No, you're wrong iphones are better" and "I think you're biased therefore I don't have to bother defending my own bias". Feel free to try to attack my bias, but I've been attacking Zeus on other shit all week.

Zeus-- I think you'd get more traction going on Bill O'Reilly's show and trying to convince Bill that Bush sucks

[Julius Seeker]

I think Andrew is taking all mac-attacks as personal attacks to him. Andrew = Apple Computers.

I'm naming my first-born child Steve, I tell you what.

I'm just a little bit over the relentless attacks not on Apple products (because it's no loss of mine if people don't know better!), but the people that buy them. Call me a sheep again, Flip!

Oh please, the only reason people have a hatred for Apple is because of their douchebag lying in their commercials and the elitism that envelops every Apple fanboy. You're hated because you believe you're better than everyone else because you have a macbook instead of a PC and make that opinion well known.


The rest of this thread is pathetic-- it'd be less so if you all just started arguing who's dick was bigger. In case it needs pointing out... Seek you suck ass at arguing. I read this whole thread in one shot just now (hadn't come in here prior) and all I see is Zeus arguing points, and you either attacking his character or saying stupid ass shit like

"Most people will find the iPhone/DS combo vastly superior."

with absolutely nothing to back it up with. No argument, no reasons, no facts... just stupid ass one liners that you have no way to back up or expand upon. Bring some REASON into the debate instead of just saying "No, you're wrong iphones are better" and "I think you're biased therefore I don't have to bother defending my own bias". Feel free to try to attack my bias, but I've been attacking Zeus on other shit all week.

Zeus-- I think you'd get more traction going on Bill O'Reilly's show and trying to convince Bill that Bush sucks

You're an idiot.

The fact that you are holding those whose points you oppose to higher standards than you do yourself makes you a hypocritical idiot. After a tyrade of angry attacks without any basis, you accuse me of being "pathetic" "suck ass at arguing" and saying "stupid ass shit" in the exact same post where you essentially did just that which you are accusing me of.

You are holding me to a standard of backing up the statement that says the "iPhone/DS" combo is superior when I am replying to a statement which essentially just says "the PSP/BB combo is superior". Why are you not critisizing the other side for the exact same reason?

Do you think that you actually THINK that arguing that the PSP is adequate, and that you want to hold things on your lap, not in distance to lick is an actual valid argument? Do you actually think that the difference between a 4.3 inch screen and a 3.5 inch screen is that significant?

Or perhaps stating that I have no experience with Sony products because they compete with Nintendo? Do you think that is a valid argument? Do you think I just happened to guess about all the PSX and PS2 games I have played and praise?

How about calling me an Apple fan and saying I don't praise products not by Apple or Nintendo? When this is obviously false (Just search up my name + Windows Vista, or look down through this forum to see a large number of posts by me discussing games on PSX and PS2; do you honestly think I just made all of this stuff up and just got lucky?

How about saying that Apple only markets to Apple fans? With no backing evidence and the obvious logical flaw that Apple has been a company that has grown at a rocketing pace for the past few years?

Why should I bother giving serious response to these sorts of obviously flawed replies unless asked? I guess I misjudged the intelligence of some of the audience, I expected that Zeus would even understand the flaws in his statements if he re-read them; obviously you didn't though.


No, it is not a problem with my arguing, it is your intelligence. For that reason, along with your insult laden post, and the fact that you are holding me to much higher standards than you hold yourself, and anyone arguing against me, is why I think you're an idiot.

[Tessian]

Hahaha wow it's easier to push your buttons than I remember I'm not a part of this argument, I was just merely pointing out my observations of this argument from someone who just walked by in the hopes maybe it'd serve as a wake up call to stop being an idiot but I see now that was had no chance of working. Still made my day to read that response though, thanks

[Zeus]

Zeus-- I think you'd get more traction going on Bill O'Reilly's show and trying to convince Bill that Bush sucks

Yeah I agree. He seems to ignore what you say unless it matches his beliefs, not even read what you wrote before commenting on it, discount your views are wrong as opposed to different than his, and focus solely on little snide comments rather than the other 99% of the post.

I still like to give some level of credit/respect. I haven't completely given up on the non-destructive arguments with him yet

[Julius Seeker]

Hahaha wow it's easier to push your buttons than I remember I'm not a part of this argument, I was just merely pointing out my observations of this argument from someone who just walked by in the hopes maybe it'd serve as a wake up call to stop being an idiot but I see now that was had no chance of working. Still made my day to read that response though, thanks

You're thanking me for pointing out your stupidity? That's kind of weird. Well, I can say that it was indeed a pleasure

[Julius Seeker]

Zeus-- I think you'd get more traction going on Bill O'Reilly's show and trying to convince Bill that Bush sucks

Yeah I agree. He seems to ignore what you say unless it matches his beliefs, not even read what you wrote before commenting on it, discount your views are wrong as opposed to different than his, and focus solely on little snide comments rather than the other 99% of the post.

I still like to give some level of credit/respect. I haven't completely given up on the non-destructive arguments with him yet

You were essentially trying to argue your point with ignorant comments. I was simply pointing that out why that is ridiculous if you are trying to prove a point. That's why you lost the argument.

Just let me give you some advice, if you are going to argue a point, don't be ignorant about it with comments like "Kirby Superstar is a minigame collection" or the ones I outlined above. Actually do a little research on the topic you are talking about.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Oh please, the only reason people have a hatred for Apple is because of their douchebag lying in their commercials and the elitism that envelops every Apple fanboy. You're hated because you believe you're better than everyone else because you have a macbook instead of a PC and make that opinion well known.

I can't believe I agree with Seek. You're an idiot and you're making stupid-ass assumptions.

I pretty happily use Apple products, but I'm not a fanboy. Apple fanboys bug me too, but Apple haters are a million billion times worse. You guys are acting like real pricks and I expect better.

[SineSwiper]

Well, when Apple fanboys make up 90% of the base, stereotypes and animosity tend to be more generally accepted. Just as long as we can agree that an Apple computer is different, but not exactly "better" than a PC, most of us don't mind.

I still don't like the way they market things and find new ways to rip people off.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Well, when Apple fanboys make up 90% of the base, stereotypes and animosity tend to be more generally accepted.

You know what, I've never actually met this mythical Apple fanboy. Every other non-consumer of Apple products, though, is a hater. The company can't be brought up here without a pile-on. It happens in every fucking thread.

Just as long as we can agree that an Apple computer is different, but not exactly "better" than a PC, most of us don't mind.

This would be a compromise I could live with, even if I do think Apple products are generally better in the markets they compete in. Being able to just talk about Apple products without being accused by association of being a mindless, marketing-manipulated, elitist douchebag zealot sheep, though, would be a fucking lovely start.

[Zeus]

You were essentially trying to argue your point with ignorant comments. I was simply pointing that out why that is ridiculous if you are trying to prove a point. That's why you lost the argument.

The point, Seek, is that there's no such thing as "winning" or "losing" an argument when it involves opinions. These aren't contests to prove you're right. We're not arguing science here (not like Kup would let us :-)

[Tessian]

Well, when Apple fanboys make up 90% of the base, stereotypes and animosity tend to be more generally accepted.

You know what, I've never actually met this mythical Apple fanboy. Every other non-consumer of Apple products, though, is a hater. The company can't be brought up here without a pile-on. It happens in every fucking thread.

I knew a few in college. One kid in particular was a huge mac fanboy douchebag and he always irritated the hell out of most people when the topic came up. Let me clarify in saying Andrew I wasn't claiming YOU are one of these people, I just meant you as in generically with the apple community. I just couldn't stand people who thought everything Steve Jobs shits out was gold when in fact nothing Apple's done, aside from their UI's, has been new or innovative- they just were able to market it better than others in the past and everyone think's their geniuses for it.

At this point I'm just comforted by the fact that Apple's fanboys will be their own undoing... when Jobs has to step down from the company that'll be the end. It's a sad state when a false story about him having cancer causes Apple stock to plummet. He brought Apple back into the spotlight when he came back onboard, and they'll go back into obscurity when he leaves too apparently.

[SineSwiper]

You know what, I've never actually met this mythical Apple fanboy. Every other non-consumer of Apple products, though, is a hater. The company can't be brought up here without a pile-on. It happens in every fucking thread.

Of course not. You like and buy Apple. The only time you see a Apple fanboy is when somebody who likes PCs brings up something and the fanboy pops up and starts arguing about how their Apple is 100x better.

Don't tell me you've never heard the arguments:

"Apples don't have viruses." (False. They are only a few because they aren't worth writing.)
"Apples are better for graphics editing." (Not really, and Apple pours millions of dollars to keep their foothold in Hollywood.)
"Apples don't crash." (Totally false, and they only have a better OS because they stole it from BSD.)
"Apples are simple for everybody to use." (Not if you're not familiar with them, and everybody is familiar with Windows.)
"Apples are totally different." (Not really; it's an Intel chipset with a BSD kernel.)
"Apples are just as cheap as PCs." (Not true at all, and Apple still has plenty of more expensive closed hardware in their system.)
"Apples cares about their customers." (Not really; they have a slick marketing campaigns to ensure that people buy every version of their $600 phones, or expensive Airbooks, or eMacs. This is just like any other company.)

I could list more, but I figured you get (and miss) the point, and will proceed to argue against what I just said.

[Tessian]

I've NEVER heard anyone claim apples were cheaper... even an idiot can compare prices and their hardware has always been more expensive with less power. The virus thing is purely a percentage thing. If I'm going to write malware I want it to infect as many people as possible (most commonly these days the goal is to create a large botnet network) am I going to target the platform that holds 70% of the market, or the one that holds 20%?

My biggest complaint, actually aside from the marketting, is the fact that there's no such thing as an apple user complaining about their products. It's taboo in their community; if you dare speak out against apple you're branded a traitor and exiled.

[bovine]

why are we bashing apple computers now?

They make a great product, but each one does have some pros and cons.