Heroes

[SineSwiper]

It's back!

[Zeus]

Yep and at about the same quality as Season 2

[kent]

i think it's slightly better than Season 2 so far, but nowhere near Season 1.

[Lox]

I've only seen Episode 1 so far, but I would agree with that. Everyone still has the "I'm retarded" disease. haha

[Zeus]

I've only seen Episode 1 so far, but I would agree with that. Everyone still has the "I'm retarded" disease. haha

They introduce enough good ideas to keep you watching but it almost looks like they're trying to figure it out as they're going along rather than having a season-long arc to work towards.

Also, Hiro and Claire (especially the cheerleader) need to become secondary characters.....now. Even Peter and Nathan are starting to get on my nerves a bit but they're at least doing something interesting with them.

I could live with that if they had good villians. That's the main issue right now. You have a bunch of heroes struggling but for or against what? Syler ain't no Magneto or Doc Ock. I was actually kinda happy last season when he lost his powers. I was hoping they'd make him secondary and start introducing some real villains. You need a great villain for the hero to fight against, its basically "completes" them. Look at any comic book flick or any good vs evil movie that's any good, the villain always rocks (Magneto, Stryker, Doc Ock). Sure you get your exceptions to the rule here and there like you did for Iron Man, but they're just exceptions. Not so for Heroes.

I continue to watch it mostly because it's one of the few shows my wife and I watch together. They have just enough interesting stuff to keep me from discarding it completely but they need to really strengthen it, hopefully starting by introducing some great, new villains to replace Syler.

[Eric]

I happen to like Sylar, you can go to hell Zeus!

My only problem with Heroes is the whole "lol, the future is fucked again, time to fix it." That seems to be the reoccurring theme for this show. That and the fact the characters repeatedly become their own worst enemies...in Peter's case I guess this means literally.

[Zeus]

I happen to like Sylar, you can go to hell Zeus!

My only problem with Heroes is the whole "lol, the future is fucked again, time to fix it." That seems to be the reoccurring theme for this show. That and the fact the characters repeatedly become their own worst enemies...in Peter's case I guess this means literally.

I like what they've done with Peter and Nathan so far this year, actually.

Sylar is OK but he ain't no sole villain. He would actually be perfect as a wandering secondary villain who is even screwing up the real villain. They COULD do that now but they decided to make the Corporation secondary and him primary.

[SineSwiper]

Personally, I really like this season so far. Helluva lot better than Season 2, though the "future is fucked up" timeline seems to reoccur too often. Of course, when you have a few characters that can travel through time, that sort of situation is always going to come up.

Also, I like Clare. I didn't really like the love story they had in Season 2, but she's still an interesting character. Sure, she doesn't have any offensive powers, but she has the best defensive power ever. If they got rid of Hiro, there would little comedy in the whole thing. His attitude totally counteracts just how powerful his ability is, and that works well.

I thought his ability's interaction with the thief was a bit inaccurate. After all, if she is still moving in "his time", why is she standing still for a while until she talks?

Zeus, quit trying to compare the hero/villian complex with comic books. Heroes tries to take a more realistic approach to super heroes, and comic books generally dial down to "Oh no, Villian X is terrorizing the city. Hero Y will fight him." In the case of Heroes, all of the villains and heroes are in the same universe and one hero doesn't always fight one villain.

[Zeus]

Actually, Heroes is just a different take on the whole hero/villain idea from the comics. So are essentially all cops 'n robbers flicks. You very much need that dynamic when you have a "hero" (try and tell me there ain't those in the show that's named after them, even if they are flawed) and it's missing right now.

It took me a while to realize why I thought the show was stagnant. It's not like I immediately said "oh shit, it's Syler!". Look at what's probably the best storyline so far IMO, Nathan and Peter. They're actually struggling against two villains, their mom and future Peter. But what about Mohinder? Hiro? They're sort of feeling their way around right now. And they're turning one of last year's villains, Elle, into more of a tragic character, a quasi-villain now.

The struggle isn't always as apparent as it is in comics but it's always there.

[SineSwiper]

Well, we are only 2 episodes in (if you count the 2 hours as 2), so there will be plenty of chance for melding things together.

[Zeus]

Well, we are only 2 episodes in (if you count the 2 hours as 2), so there will be plenty of chance for melding things together.

Oh I agree Season 3 needs some time. But they can't be dicking around too long after the atrocity that was Season 2

[Don]

I read about some of the character synopsis and it sounds like you could make an entire show out of just one person's story.

[SineSwiper]

*SPOILERS*

I'm not sure if I like the direction that Heroes is going in this one. I know they are trying to get the good guys look like bad guys, and visa-versa, but it seems like they are trying too hard. They go from good to bad in no time flat. It's like Star Wars E3's Vadar transformation in the time it takes to get some popcorn.

I don't believe Sylar as a good guy. Maybe if they made it slower, I could understand it. Peter, I don't understand at all. He had no reason to take Sylar's power, considering he can already mimic any ability he wants. Hiro just turned into a bad guy for little reason. Does he think he can turn back time and make things right again? Mohinder suddenly starts killing/capturing people with no remorse? Did he get a personality change, too? Even desperate people mourn their own desperation.

Also, everything is basically panning out to be like what the future is. But, Hiro doesn't have an excuse, since he saw it firsthand. And what is up with foreshadowing that is as dense as plutonium? "What about this guy, who can create black holes?" Cue the black hole guy. "Or this guy? You should stay away from him." Cue this guy.

Still better than Season 2, but I wish they tried to develop the changes a lot more. The show is all about character development, so why destroy that?

[Lox]

I didn't see last night's yet, but I did just catch up through last weeks.

*SPOILERS AS OF EPISODE 4*

Heroes is ok still this season so far. I agree that the character developments are sub-par. I understand why Peter took Sylar's power though. It wasn't to steal other powers since he can just take them anyway. It was to have the ability to understand how things fit together. Sylar's power is really to understand the mechanics of things. His stealing of powers is just a side-effect of that.

As of last week, I liked the Peter story and I didn't mind that Sylar and HRG were together since I figure Angela Petrelli is using them. I hate Parkman's story and Hiro is such a loser this season. And it does feel like for every interesting idea they bring in, they bring in another dumb one from the "Big Book of Comic Cliches". Did we really need the "you're Nikki's secret twin" story? And how off the wall is it that, suddenly, we find out that Sylar is a Petrelli? That is probably my least favorite "twist" so far. There was no foreshadowing, no build up, nothing. It just happened because the writers decided it would throw everyone for a loop.

[Zeus]

Do I really have to repeat the spoiler alert now?

Yeah, I'm getting the same impression that they're doing a lot of stuff more for shock value than anything. I'm actually OK with the Peter storyline so far. It's not the main one (he seems to all of a sudden be regulated to supporting status) and things just got to him. And if I'm not mistaken, doesn't he just have to touch someone to take their powers? If so, it's not like taking Sylar's was a choice. It's more like a curse.

Hiro should have been regulated to supporting in season 2. Same with Claire. Problem is they're both too popular so they're still the main characters which is irritating. Claire chasing down the Level 5 guys seems like a way to get her more involved with where they're going than anything. That's how they're keeping their dad around (BTW, what the heck was that with her biological mother? How the fuck did she get there?). It's a bit better now that Hiro's been "recruited" and is attached in a neat way to the underlying "conspiracy" storyline they're developing. Not a big fan of Daphne though. She's just a means to an end. Although I'd like to see what really happens to Ando as I imagine that act by Hiro is what leads him to want to kill him.

Nikki/Tracy/Barbara are just there (nice to look at every now and then :-) and takes up space. Nate is OK and his storyline just got a helluva lot better once they revealed the source behind Linderman.

Mohinder going in the direction he's going in is alright. It's a natural - and very formulaic - progression. They just need to regulate him to very supporting right now until they know what to do with him. Too much screen time.

So yeah, it's better than season 3 mainly 'cause of the conspiracy-struggle storyline. They're still suffering from their past (Hiro & Claire mostly) which hopefully they'll shed soon and flush out the good part of Season 3. And I hope they do something good with Elle.

[SineSwiper]

The electro chick? Yeah, she would fair good as a good guy. I started to like Daphne when I found how what happens to her in the future. Mohinder's future was pretty eerie, and it reminded me of that Lost in Space movie with the villian guy 20 years in the future. I don't see how he can repair himself, but we'll see what he's up to.

Still don't like how they are changing their personalities so fast.

[Anarky]

Okay... Hiro did not stab or kill Ando. You know there will be come cheesy thing next ep where he will have freezed time, gotten a fake blood pouch and put it on Ando so he could join the group. Just watch....

[Eric]

That or he DID stab him and figured he could go back and fix it later.

[Zeus]

Okay... Hiro did not stab or kill Ando. You know there will be come cheesy thing next ep where he will have freezed time, gotten a fake blood pouch and put it on Ando so he could join the group. Just watch....

Daphne can run with him when time is stopped, remember?

[Lox]

Daphne can run with him when time is stopped, remember?

That is so dumb, it hurts me to think about it. hahaha

[Mully]

Okay... Hiro did not stab or kill Ando. You know there will be come cheesy thing next ep where he will have freezed time, gotten a fake blood pouch and put it on Ando so he could join the group. Just watch....

That or he DID stab him and figured he could go back and fix it later. Tounge

Both good points.

I remember Hiro saying, "Ando, I do a lot of things you don't know about [when I freeze time]."


Also, another great power is the Haitian. That is a pretty good power, even if you are just normal and your power is passive..

[Zeus]

The Haitian might be the most powerful of them with that power of his

[Shellie]

The Hatian's power isn't all passive. He can manipulate the mind, removing memories..

[Zeus]

The Hatian's power isn't all passive. He can manipulate the mind, removing memories..

Very true. If the guy learned to defend himself physically and with a gun, he'd be the most powerful of them all IMO

[SineSwiper]

Daphne can run with him when time is stopped, remember?

That is so dumb, it hurts me to think about it. hahaha

Yeah, though, you can think of it as Hiro only being able to slow time to a infinitely small amount, sort of like that old Star Trek episode.

The only thing that really bothered me was Daphne just sitting there in place that whole time when Hiro first met her. She should have still being running at normal speed.

[Lox]

I guess what bothered me was that if she could really run fast enough to be moving at normal speed while everyone else is "frozen" then she should have much further away by the time Hiro actually used his powers. Hiro always takes freaking forever to use his powers, which also bothers me. haha

[Chris]

I think this explains this season perfectly....

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... the-future

god it's shit now.

[Zeus]

I think this explains this season perfectly....

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... the-future

god it's shit now.

It's still better than last year, you gotta admit that

[Shellie]

The last 5 minutes of the last episode got me really interested...

[Zeus]

The last 5 minutes of the last episode got me really interested...

Exactly. I'm curious if they're gonna turn it into an X-Files like continous storyline

[Mully]

Just remembered this: Peter has forgotten how to turn invisible. Remember Claude? Claude taught Peter how to control powers in the first season.

"Any time-line" Peter could be using this to (a) kill Nathan, (b) escape from Claire, (c) sneak into Sylar's "the baker and father's" future home, etc

[Lox]

Just remembered this: Peter has forgotten how to turn invisible. Remember Claude? Claude taught Peter how to control powers in the first season.

"Any time-line" Peter could be using this to (a) kill Nathan, (b) escape from Claire, (c) sneak into Sylar's "the baker and father's" future home, etc

Peter didn't forget, but the writers want the viewers to forget. haha They like to pretend certain things don't exist just because it doesn't fit the story.

[Zeus]

Just remembered this: Peter has forgotten how to turn invisible. Remember Claude? Claude taught Peter how to control powers in the first season.

"Any time-line" Peter could be using this to (a) kill Nathan, (b) escape from Claire, (c) sneak into Sylar's "the baker and father's" future home, etc

Peter didn't forget, but the writers want the viewers to forget. haha They like to pretend certain things don't exist just because it doesn't fit the story.

Yeah, it would make Peter far too powerful to be able to do EVERYTHING and you can't have that. That's why they're focusing on this "it's the hunger" thing with him stealing Sylar's powers. You gotta build in the flaws to what is now, for all intents and purposes, an omnipotent being

[SineSwiper]

Just remembered this: Peter has forgotten how to turn invisible. Remember Claude? Claude taught Peter how to control powers in the first season.

"Any time-line" Peter could be using this to (a) kill Nathan, (b) escape from Claire, (c) sneak into Sylar's "the baker and father's" future home, etc

Good point, but maybe bad examples:

A. Turning invisible would actually make yourself more visible in a crowded area. Sure, you had the chase scene, and it probably did make things more complicated.

B. The first time (beginning of episode 1), he simply used his time powers, which was more effective. The second time, the Haitian was in range, so he couldn't use any powers.

C. I don't think he was trying to sneak into the house, really. Though, he could have used something to get past Daphne, invis or otherwise.

And four, his time power is infinitely more powerful. Next to that, there's no point to using invisibility.

[Anarky]

Who was right about Hiro and Ando?

THIS GUY (so predictable)

[Zeus]

I'm a little on the fence about how they're flipping Peter and Mohinder from Heroes to Villians and Sylar (the only real villian from the first 2 years) to a Hero. I'll have to see how they're going to play this one out. Those three characters have become very secondary after being so integral in the first two seasons

And I still don't understand the fascination with Hiro and Claire. I still don't like those characters

[Lox]

I liked Hiro because he was funny, which they kind of got back to in this episode. But he'd been really annoying the first few episodes. Though I will say that I like Ando more than anyone else on the show.

My main issue with the way Hiro saved Ando was that he froze time before he went and got the fake sword, etc. Why didn't Daphne see him freeze time if she can still move?

[Zeus]

I liked Hiro because he was funny, which they kind of got back to in this episode. But he'd been really annoying the first few episodes. Though I will say that I like Ando more than anyone else on the show.

My main issue with the way Hiro saved Ando was that he froze time before he went and got the fake sword, etc. Why didn't Daphne see him freeze time if she can still move?

He went back in time rather than stopping it. I know he stopped it a bit to think about it but that shouldn't affect things.

[SineSwiper]

Still writing plot holes as big as trucks. The thing with Hiro (still don't believe Zeus's explanation), Clarie acting like she doesn't know what's going on (even though she read his file), Mohinder's character just not making sense, Peter not knowing about his own father's power.

[Lox]

Well, I understand why Peter wouldn't know his own father's power. I don't think Peter or Nathan even realized anyone else had powers except for them until the first season and by then their father had "died".

The thing with Claire was unbelievably stupid. I guess you can say she's inexperienced, but even inexperience shouldn't lead to that much stupidity. She knows the guy controls other people's bodies and she stands there and gives him a chance to surrender instead of just shocking him.

I don't buy the Hiro explanation either. He paused long enough for Daphne to see that everyone else was frozen and yet she didn't suspect any trickery on his part. Or maybe the writers decided to pretend the whole "Hiro just slows down time" thing never got revealed since that is up there as one of the stupid surprise moments from this season next to Sylar being a Petrelli.

[Mully]

Just remembered this: Peter has forgotten how to turn invisible. Remember Claude? Claude taught Peter how to control powers in the first season.

I think Peter went invisible on this past episode. When Arthur Petrelli was talking about 'people call you the villains,' you can see Peter 'dissolves' in with his hands on fire. I don't think that was 'Hiro teleportation' since Hiro doesn't dissolve in.

I don't buy the Hiro explanation either. He paused long enough for Daphne to see that everyone else was frozen and yet she didn't suspect any trickery on his part. Or maybe the writers decided to pretend the whole "Hiro just slows down time" thing never got revealed since that is up there as one of the stupid surprise moments from this season next to Sylar being a Petrelli.

Maybe Hiro tried harder to stop time since Daphne was there and actually stopped it. We don't know how their power work just as much as they don't.

When Hiro first stopped time looking for Daphne, you could see he really didn't stop time before he even got to her. He could bend her light trails.

[Lox]

Yeah, he did turn invisible. He did it as he walked into the building.

I suppose the idea with Hiro's powers is possible...it just seems like an explanation for a hole on the part of the writers. I guess I just don't think the writers put that much thought into how all this stuff works.

[Zeus]

Yeah, he did turn invisible. He did it as he walked into the building.

I suppose the idea with Hiro's powers is possible...it just seems like an explanation for a hole on the part of the writers. I guess I just don't think the writers put that much thought into how all this stuff works.

I also don't think Hiro was planned to be more than a supporting character by now. But he's so popular he's still the main character

They have no idea what to do with Claire anymore, they're making it up as they go. Hiro they seem to be weaving him into the main story more. Claire, HRG, Mohinder, Nate, Jessica, Peter....they're trying to figure them out. That main storyline with the parent Petrellis, Daphne, and Hiro seems to be the only thing they're not making up on the fly

[SineSwiper]

Yeah, what is Mohinder actually doing? I don't actually understand what his purpose is for cocooning people. What are his conflicts? Why?

Instead, we're left with a character that has totally changed to a bad guy for absolutely no reason.

[Zeus]

Yeah, what is Mohinder actually doing? I don't actually understand what his purpose is for cocooning people. What are his conflicts? Why?

Instead, we're left with a character that has totally changed to a bad guy for absolutely no reason.

Kring is attempting to do the whole "good scientist gets consumed by his work and turns bad" thing. Considering where he was at the end of the second season and then meeting that insanely hot Latin chick with the crazy eyes, it's not a bad progression. Problem is they're going nowhere with it. It's almost like they're just tossing him in on occassion to keep him around but still aren't sure what they're going to do with him. It seems like they're developing that story as they go along and don't know where they're going with it.

The people he's keeping are guinea pigs for his experiment to learn how to take abilities away. I guess it's still for the greater good in his mind, who knows. Doesn't he know all he has to do to take away abilities is call up the elder Petrelli? :-)

[Lox]

This is a good article on the show. I pretty much agree with everything it says.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,2023521 ... ml?cnn=yes

[Zeus]

This is a good article on the show. I pretty much agree with everything it says.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,2023521 ... ml?cnn=yes

Yeah, me too

[Don]

The discussion on this reminds me of a lot of other stuff I follow that has a free form power-based universe. I think the biggest problem with all such stories is that if you don't have rules governing the outcome of the said world, you end up with a DBZ-like place where the new power just conveniently beats any previous powers. For example in the world of HXH you cannot create a sword that can slice through anything no matter how much effort, training, or limitations you place upon the weapon. Now you can get a weapon that can slice through practically anything, but it's the understanding that there's also some kind material/ability that can stop your sword that can slice through practically anything. Absolutes of any sorts just don't work out unless the absolutes are there to place a limit. A commonly used one might be say, you absolutely cannot bring people back from the dead.

In particular I find time travel to be a very inconvenient power to use in any power-based worlds. It's pretty hard to explain why you'd lose when you can just redo stuff.

[Anarky]

This is a good article on the show. I pretty much agree with everything it says.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,2023521 ... ml?cnn=yes

Yeah, me too

Very well written and accurate article. I wish they'd ditch the current characters and go to the original vision of the series, but the masses will not approve.

[Zeus]

The discussion on this reminds me of a lot of other stuff I follow that has a free form power-based universe. I think the biggest problem with all such stories is that if you don't have rules governing the outcome of the said world, you end up with a DBZ-like place where the new power just conveniently beats any previous powers. For example in the world of HXH you cannot create a sword that can slice through anything no matter how much effort, training, or limitations you place upon the weapon. Now you can get a weapon that can slice through practically anything, but it's the understanding that there's also some kind material/ability that can stop your sword that can slice through practically anything. Absolutes of any sorts just don't work out unless the absolutes are there to place a limit. A commonly used one might be say, you absolutely cannot bring people back from the dead.

In particular I find time travel to be a very inconvenient power to use in any power-based worlds. It's pretty hard to explain why you'd lose when you can just redo stuff.

I think that would be a fair assessment. The world isn't very well defined yet as they seemed to be making it up on the go