Heroes

[kent]

Very well written and accurate article. I wish they'd ditch the current characters and go to the original vision of the series, but the masses will not approve.

does it matter? with the ratings decline it doesn't seem like the masses are too approving of what's happening now.

[SineSwiper]

Ditto Suresh (Sendhil Ramamurthy), whose transformation into a mad, gooey human insect qualifies as blatant pop culture theft (see: The Fly).

Amen.

[Zeus]

What the FUCK happened with Suresh? I've never seen such a quick about-face on a character in any book, movie, or TV show ever. He went from budding supervillian to tragic hero in about 3 minutes. Kring really is making it up as he goes, isn't he?

[Don]

I've noticed it's a common trick to go like this guy is evil wait he's not oh no we really don't know! That must mean this character is good and well developed!

I saw an interview with the guy who directd Spiderman, and he was saying how he wanted the villian to have a dimension so it's not just like villian = pure evil, but in the end, the villian still has to be the bad guy. You are not supposed to feel sorry for them when Spiderman beats them up and foil their plan.

[SineSwiper]

I didn't think it to be so suddenly really. More of an explanation. However, they didn't handle his struggle at all. Somebody like that should be at odds with himself, and they just treat him like a villian the whole time. It seems like they are throwing out reality in favor of a surprise factor, which is dumb and doesn't work.

This week's plotholes: nobody noticing an electric woman talking about her problem on the plane, Sylar being as dumb and gullible as a pile of shit.

Also, a good analysis. Actually, the whole site's Heroes analysis is good.

[Lox]

Yeah, how no one noticed the electric lady on the plane is beyond me. I was hoping the plane would just crash. On top of that, it was such a pointless scene. Was it just to show that Claire and Elle are going to become BFF or something?

I don't really mind Suresh's jumps. I felt like they showed that he was desperate for a solution to his problem and desperation leads to crazy actions.

[Lox]

Also, that analysis was great. haha

[Mully]

I saw an interview with the guy who directd Spiderman

Sam Raimi

[SineSwiper]

Sam Raimi

Yeah, I figured everybody knew that.

[Eric]

A major development to report from the set of NBC's Heroes: EW.com has learned that co-executive producers Jeph Loeb (left) and Jesse Alexander, two of the show's most instrumental writer/producers, are leaving the three-year-old series. Their departure comes at a watershed moment for Heroes, which has taken a serious hit in the ratings amid complaints by critics and fans alike that the show has lost its zeitgeist-tapping appeal. The drama is averaging 9 million-plus viewers this season, down from last year's 11.6 million average.

Loeb and Alexander are celebrities in their own right among the fanboys. Loeb is an author of many comic books, including Batman, The Hulk, and Superman For All Seasons, which inspired the creation of Smallville. Loeb joined the then-WB drama in its second season. Alexander was previously a co-exeutive producer on Lost and Alias. It's unclear whether Heroes creator/executive producer Tim Kring will replace the two writer/producers.

[Lox]

That's pretty big news. I wonder what's going on with the show and if it'll even get picked up next season. Personally, I would trade Heroes in a second to bring something like Journeyman back.

[Zeus]

That's pretty big news. I wonder what's going on with the show and if it'll even get picked up next season. Personally, I would trade Heroes in a second to bring something like Journeyman back.

I say NBC trades it in and picks up another 3 seasons of Arrested Development. They can show it just before/after 30 Rock and we can have two of the smartest comedies in decades going at the same time

[Lox]

I could go for that. That would be awesome.

[SineSwiper]

Bah, Heroes is the only FCC-regulated show that I look forward to, despite the plotholed mess. If you're going to trade it in, bring fucking Firefly back!

[Mully]

Arrested Devlopment and Firefly are both Fox shows.

Has there ever been a series that did better after it switched networks?

[Lox]

Arrested Devlopment and Firefly are both Fox shows.

Has there ever been a series that did better after it switched networks?

You could argue that the reruns of Family Guy did amazingly well on Cartoon Network years after Fox canned it. That then gave Fox a reason to bring the show back. It's not exactly the same thing, but I think niche shows like AD could do very well if it got moved to a network that would give it the right treatment and airtime.

[Zeus]

No but Fox also has a history of screwing around their shows (see Lox's explanation of Family Guy above). There's nothing to say that Arrested Development won't do better if brought back (well, other than lackluster DVD sales :-)

[SineSwiper]

Arrested Devlopment and Firefly are both Fox shows.

Has there ever been a series that did better after it switched networks?

Babylon 5 got its fifth season because of TNT. Now, TNT kinda fucked them over with Crusade, since they kept moving timeslots and didn't bother advertising it. (After so much heavy advertising of Bab5, too...)

I already miss that series. Gary Cole and Peter Woodward were awesome in Crusade.

EDIT: YouTube fails me once again. Can't find the beginning part of "North by North Quahog".

[Zeus]

EDIT: YouTube fails me once again. Can't find the beginning part of "North by North Quahog".

And on the Eighth Day, God invented Torrents

[Mully]

And on the Eighth Day, God invented Torrents

Dumbest quote...ever.

[SineSwiper]

Dumbest quote...ever.

Especially dumb, since I was looking for the beginning of the episode to link, not for somebody to download the entire episode, wait an hour for the torrent to finish, then play it to get what I mean.

Also, Eighth Day jokes are really lame and cliche, but that's pretty much what you were saying, anyway.

[Lox]

Argh. 10 year old Hiro makes me want to stab myself in the eye!!! ARGH.

[Zeus]

Argh. 10 year old Hiro makes me want to stab myself in the eye!!! ARGH.

Kring is really reaching for some of these characters. I'm OK with the Nathan/Angela Petrelli thing and how it's setting up as an X-Men vs Brotherhood thing. It's bringing some stability to the show that's been rudderless for the last season and a half. The Hiro thing is just a way to keep him in the spotlight since he's such a popular character but he's got no real place in the show right now. They need to get through that phase and bring him back into the main story and fast. Peter can't be a powerless whiner for much longer and Claire needs to get over her angst bullshit.

We'll see if they turn the corner with this new setup and start moving forward properly. Mohinder doing his about face back to a "good" guy but working for Arthur could be something interesting when it comes down to completing the formula. I'd like to see if they do that one properly

[SineSwiper]

At least it's starting to get good... if I ignore the big gaping continuity plot holes.

This is what you get when you don't plan ahead your TV series. The Make-Shit-Up-As-We-Go School of TV Production usually has less than stellar results.

[Anarky]

Argh. 10 year old Hiro makes me want to stab myself in the eye!!! ARGH.

Seriously this made me hate Hiro and the writers SOOOOO much more this week. I'm done with him, kill him off NOW.

[Zeus]

Claire pisses me off just as much as Hiro.

The problem with this show is it got too popular too fast. You can tell there's meddling. They're starting to follow some old TV show axioms like keeping your "main" characters in the limelight, not getting too "crazy" wit the plot, etc.

[Lox]

At least it's starting to get good... if I ignore the big gaping continuity plot holes.

This is what you get when you don't plan ahead your TV series. The Make-Shit-Up-As-We-Go School of TV Production usually has less than stellar results.

I look forward to Heroes each week mainly because of this guy's writeups. hahaha

[Mully]

I don't think I'm going to like the "eclipse takes and gives powers" thing.

[Lox]

I don't think I'm going to like the "eclipse takes and gives powers" thing.

Nor am I. And the reason is because they won't explain WHY. They'll just use it as a crutch to add tension to the story. It's the same way they use that stupid 9th Wonders comic stuff. Why in the world would there still be a comic showing the future? And why do they need to use that to progress the storyline? ARGH!!!

[Zeus]

I don't think I'm going to like the "eclipse takes and gives powers" thing.

Nor am I. And the reason is because they won't explain WHY. They'll just use it as a crutch to add tension to the story. It's the same way they use that stupid 9th Wonders comic stuff. Why in the world would there still be a comic showing the future? And why do they need to use that to progress the storyline? ARGH!!!

The 9th Wonder thing is actually a good thing IMO. It's still there 'cause Issac wasn't the only one who had the ability to paint the future so the 9th Wonder is still active. Maybe they weren't using Isaac's paintings after all?

And that was actually one of the worst things they've done, constantly bring back that crutch of future painting. It worked well in the first season when they seemed to have a 13-16 episode plan in place (I feel there was tons of filler between about 14 through all but the last 2 eps that season) but it's just out of place right now.

I want to see where they go with this eclipse thing and the X-Men vs Brotherhood they've got set up. It'll determine whether the show jumps the shark or not

[SineSwiper]

Nor am I. And the reason is because they won't explain WHY.

Do you really want a Star-Trek-like explanation that makes no sense or no explanation at all. Both have the same net effect.

The 9th Wonder thing is actually a good thing IMO. It's still there 'cause Issac wasn't the only one who had the ability to paint the future so the 9th Wonder is still active. Maybe they weren't using Isaac's paintings after all?

People like you are the reason why Heroes is so fucking stupid. They expect you to forget important details like that, just so that they can rewrite their own history.

Don't you remember the episode where Isaac was giving the last issue to the courier to be colorized? Isaac was definitely writing the thing.

I want to see where they go with this eclipse thing and the X-Men vs Brotherhood they've got set up. It'll determine whether the show jumps the shark or not

You're implying it hasn't already jumped the shark back in season 2, or jumped several sharks every time it insults the intelligence of the audience. The ratings have been going downhill ever since. Hell, I can trace members of my family that have given up on Heroes between season 2 and 3.

However, I fucking love this man's reviews.

[Lox]

The Goat is awesome. His reviews make it all worthwhile. hahaha

As for whether I want an explanation that doesn't make sense - I think in most shows I'd be willing to accept this kind of thing and keep going, but with Heroes they ask you to believe SO much without explanation that I can't do it anymore.

[Zeus]

I do assume it hasn't jumped the shark because it hasn't. Shark jumping isn't just a show going bad. Heroes starting its downhill about 2/3rds of the way the first season. But they have yet to completely break out their own world or do something absolutely insane - like Fonz jumping a shark tank with his bike - to try and keep the audience going. They are losing it but they haven't lost it completely...yet. Still SOME interesting stuff going on it's just the minority.

What I meant is maybe someone else is having similar dreams to Isaac and may have been behind the scenes of the comic. With the African guy they've showed Isaac wasn't the only one who could see into the future (one silly thing they did is actually allow the African guy to create a paste that'll allow you to see the future; maybe someone else knows it?). So yes, it's silly that the 9th Wonder comic is back but I'm OK with it if it leads to something else. If it's just stuck in there to move the story forward as a convenient plot device it's different.

Don't get me wrong, the show is just barely hanging on for me. But it hasn't completely lost it yet. The X-Men vs Brotherhood thing is what's keeping it together right now

[Don]

The 9th Wonder thing is actually a good thing IMO. It's still there 'cause Issac wasn't the only one who had the ability to paint the future so the 9th Wonder is still active. Maybe they weren't using Isaac's paintings after all?

People like you are the reason why Heroes is so fucking stupid. They expect you to forget important details like that, just so that they can rewrite their own history.

I've noticed this kind of concept works very well in all realms of storywriting. Fans absolutely love stories that asserts something like "A is totally always true" and then later says: "just kidding about A". It's like an Emperor's New Cloth thing. You wouldn't dare to question the mighty author was actually wrong about what he said before, so you're supposed to just nod in the absolute brilliance of this plot twist. The guy pointing out the obvious fallacy usually gets something like "Well if you're so smart how come you're not writing this?" It's like a recipe for guaranteed success.

One of the example I can think of was like there's some story where soandso got beheaded at the end of the story, and then sequel features the same guy that was beheaded as the villian. And it's not science fiction or magic so people don't come back to life after they got their head chopped off. I remember talking to people who read the sequel and I was like did you know that he was beheaded at the end of the story before it? And they're like nah that wasn't what happened he was only arrested. And then I'd have to tell them to look at the part where it says like "The hero chopped off the bad guy's head" in the original, and then they'll still insist the bad guy was only arrested because that's what the sequel said!

[Mully]

One of the example I can think of was like there's some story where soandso got beheaded at the end of the story, and then sequel features the same guy that was beheaded as the villian. And it's not science fiction or magic so people don't come back to life after they got their head chopped off. I remember talking to people who read the sequel and I was like did you know that he was beheaded at the end of the story before it? And they're like nah that wasn't what happened he was only arrested. And then I'd have to tell them to look at the part where it says like "The hero chopped off the bad guy's head" in the original, and then they'll still insist the bad guy was only arrested because that's what the sequel said!

That sounds like Highlander.

[SineSwiper]

Did anybody notice the recap in Part 1? They had Pa-trelli saying "I'm going to erase your memory" in the recap (during the Hiro scene with him), but I don't remember him saying that at all in the actual episode. I think it was a case of them trying to rewrite history so that it makes better sense. More evidence that they are making this shit up as they go along.

[Zeus]

The 9th Wonder thing is actually a good thing IMO. It's still there 'cause Issac wasn't the only one who had the ability to paint the future so the 9th Wonder is still active. Maybe they weren't using Isaac's paintings after all?

People like you are the reason why Heroes is so fucking stupid. They expect you to forget important details like that, just so that they can rewrite their own history.

Well, they explained that one this last ep

[SineSwiper]

They are still rewriting their own history. I really don't think that Isaac wrote that many posthumus issues (from #15 to 31), and we already know that the "secret issue" is the one from a future that no longer exists.

Still, I did like the last episode much better than many of the others. It seems like they were TRYING to explain things, even if they still aren't getting it quite right. Sylar still can't decide who he is.

[Zeus]

SPOILER ALERT - MOST RECENT EPISODE

Neither can Mohinder. They're trying to make him into a tragic villian and I really ain't buyin' it.

They've been re-writing their own history since the show became a much bigger hit than expected. They were SUPPOSED to be working in and out characters on a regular basis which woulda been great. But then Hiro and Claire got way too popular so they had to keep them around for no reason. Hell, I bet they would killed Sylar and Elle both this last ep if they were sticking to their original plans.

At the end of the day, it's entertaining enough to keep going and something for the wife and I to do together. But it ain't something I eagerly anticipate on a weekly basis like Naruto (again), Dexter, and hopefully the new season of 24

[Mully]

There was no reason for the eclipse. Nothing happened.

Pa Petrelli "we know why this eclipse happened, to show how weak we really are."

Lame.

But i still like the show.

[Lox]

I've only watched the first 5 minutes thus far, but I learned something very interesting - apparently, HRG is a pervy mcpervison.

He's either a voyeuristic perv OR the show is now trying to have us forget things that have happened only an episode ago!

At the end of last week's show, he was aiming at Sylar's head through the scope on a high-powered rifle through a window. All he had to do was pull the trigger and SPLAT, no more Sylar. But in this episode, we see that Sylar and Elle have just finished getting it on and then HRG shoots at them through the window. So either HRG is a perv and watched them do it AND finish before taking the shots or the writers decided to forget how the last episode ended.

[Mully]

I've only watched the first 5 minutes thus far, but I learned something very interesting - apparently, HRG is a pervy mcpervison.

He's either a voyeuristic perv OR the show is now trying to have us forget things that have happened only an episode ago!

At the end of last week's show, he was aiming at Sylar's head through the scope on a high-powered rifle through a window. All he had to do was pull the trigger and SPLAT, no more Sylar. But in this episode, we see that Sylar and Elle have just finished getting it on and then HRG shoots at them through the window. So either HRG is a perv and watched them do it AND finish before taking the shots or the writers decided to forget how the last episode ended.

Um...HRG turned out to be a cold blooded killer. He had a gun, he could have shot Sylar, but no, he went for BOX CUTTER.

[Zeus]

Nah, it's someone in the production who ain't payin' attention and is expecting us not to. My wife and I noticed it right away as well.

Just more fuel to add to Sine's fire :-)

[Mully]

Nah, it's someone in the production who ain't payin' attention and is expecting us not to. My wife and I noticed it right away as well.

Just more fuel to add to Sine's fire :-)

Well he did see them in his scope. Maybe they started "getting it on" immediately. Meaning, they ducked down past the window and he had to wait until they were up again...

Or has this show came down to "on next week continuity..." ? You'll find mistakes if you look for them in everything.

[Zeus]

Or has this show came down to "on next week continuity..." ? You'll find mistakes if you look for them in everything.

Not to that level.

[SineSwiper]

Yes, I spotted this right away. This was similar to the "erase your memories" thing. I immediately came up with a few theories:

1. Comic books never have accurate covers. You find the scene that the cover references and it's either not even in the comic at all, or it's over the top compared to the real scene. Since Heroes is based on a comic book, maybe they are going for this feel.

2. TV used to do this sort of thing with certain shows (similar to point #1) containing inaccurate cliffhangers to the actual story. Movie previews sometimes use deleted scenes, too.

3. They didn't actually bother to write the next episode until after the previous one was cut, or the writing team wasn't communicating everything correctly.

I suspect it's #3, unfortunately. Like certain HBO and Showtime series, this series stinks of multiple writers that each portray their own view of the characters and storyline. I really hate that. There should be one direction, one vision, and for the top-level story, one writer. Otherwise, you're left with an unpredictable mess with constantly changing characters, and writers that try to fix the previous episodes' mistakes by either pretending they don't exist or writing overly unrealistic means of overcoming them.

[Mully]

1. Comic books never have accurate covers. You find the scene that the cover references and it's either not even in the comic at all, or it's over the top compared to the real scene. Since Heroes is based on a comic book, maybe they are going for this feel.

2. TV used to do this sort of thing with certain shows (similar to point #1) containing inaccurate cliffhangers to the actual story. Movie previews sometimes use deleted scenes, too.

3. They didn't actually bother to write the next episode until after the previous one was cut, or the writing team wasn't communicating everything correctly.

1. Very True.

2. Arrested Development was "notorious" for this.

3. Believe the second half. I'm sure networks wouldn't go for the first theory.

[Lox]

I finally finished the episode. It wasn't bad. HRG killing Sylar with a box cutter was awesome, but there was very little tension as you knew he'd come back to life as soon as the powers returned. We already knew that Claire could come back to life.

Sylar going after Elle's brain was surprising. Guess there won't be any more Kristin Bell which is a pity as I liked her character and she was the most attractive woman on the show.

As for the eclipse...it was as stupid as I thought it'd be. So the eclipse inexplicably gave them their powers and then took them away temporarily? Ok...so how come someone like Adam has had his powers for hundreds of years? Wouldn't his powers disappearing for a day cause him to turn to dust as happened when Arthur stole them? Haven't the older "heroes" had their powers for decades? Wouldn't they have noticed that a previous eclipse took away their powers and wouldn't they have researched that?

Also, it's kind of been implied that Claire has had her healing abilities since birth. She survived the fire as an infant and the doctor mentioned how she shows no signs of having ever been sick. I suppose the latter could be that her powers "cured" all signs or something, but that's a weak argument. If she has had her powers since birth, how does the eclipse play into that???

[SineSwiper]

As for the eclipse...it was as stupid as I thought it'd be. So the eclipse inexplicably gave them their powers and then took them away temporarily? Ok...so how come someone like Adam has had his powers for hundreds of years? Wouldn't his powers disappearing for a day cause him to turn to dust as happened when Arthur stole them? Haven't the older "heroes" had their powers for decades? Wouldn't they have noticed that a previous eclipse took away their powers and wouldn't they have researched that?

Also, it's kind of been implied that Claire has had her healing abilities since birth. She survived the fire as an infant and the doctor mentioned how she shows no signs of having ever been sick. I suppose the latter could be that her powers "cured" all signs or something, but that's a weak argument. If she has had her powers since birth, how does the eclipse play into that???

Plot holes big enough for Mack trucks! Also, eclipses don't happen once every two years.

[Lox]

Also, eclipses don't happen once every two years.

Yeah...I left that out because it makes my head hurt otherwise.

Edit: I just looked it up and apparently eclipses happen relatively frequently, but total eclipses are rarer and only occur every 18 months or so. But, they also don't occur every 18 months in the same location. According to wikipedia, they occur in the same place, on average, every 370 years.