Talkin bout: Xenogears

[Blotus]

The (possibly) last episode of Retronauts proper is a reflection upon 1998 and 1988. It can be found here . Though they don't discuss Xenogears in depth, they do splice in music from the game during breaks.

The topic of this thread is: how do you remember Xenogears? With fondness? Indifference? Or not at all?





The thing that bothers me the most in trying to recall the story of Xenogears is that I can't. This can probably be attributed to the numerous times I fell asleep during the second disc's read-all-about-it portions featuring Fei or Elly in a rocking-chair.

I do have a shit memory, I admit, but can any of you summarize Xeno's plot for me without looking it up?

[Julius Seeker]

Well, the last time I played it was less than two years ago, I consider it to be one of the most interesting games of all time. It also has one of my favourite soundtracks, my favourite stories, and favourite settings. There's a lot of references throughout the title with everything from Freud and Jung, to Nietzsche, to Buddhism, to Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Scientology, Ancient Egypt, and many different classic science fiction and dystopian novels. It's like a tribute to everything I was interested in growing up, intertwined into a very great game, so I quite love the game.

The second disk does have its flaws, but when you know what to expect, it is not nearly as bad. I started to summarize the story and realized it'd be too difficult to do in under an hour and a half. Best I can suggest is look it up on Youtube. There are also a few good fansites out there.

[Anarky]

I'd be tempted to replay it, but I know I am missing the 2nd disk (yes I did buy it). Luckily my PS2 is moded so I just need to find a torrent with that disk...

The story can be a bit much at times, but I was fond of the battle system. Plus Soilent Green is people

[Kupek]

I was enamored with it the first time I played it. Probably the most emotionally involved I was with a game.

A few years later, I tried replaying it, and I couldn't.

[Julius Seeker]

I was enamored with it the first time I played it. Probably the most emotionally involved I was with a game.

A few years later, I tried replaying it, and I couldn't.

I hear where you are coming from. Every time I played I always found the first 10 hours to be difficult to play through. Though once I hit about 15 hours, I am sucked in.

[Flip]

Im with Kup and BL in opinions. I played the game through once and was enthralled. Considered it my favorite of all time, but now i cant remember why. I have yet to even try to play it again because i DO remember a lot of leveling, gold farming, and a ridiculous length.

I didnt snooze at all during the thing as i love a good story no matter how it is told, but still cant piece it together in my mind. That isnt uncommon, as it took me a few plays through FF7 and 8 to fully grasp what was going on. I'm sure if i played XG again i would understand it much better just because of age, but that game is a commitment that i dont have time for at the moment.

[Don]

I never thought the story was very good overall, but was tolerable. I didn't have a problem with the 2nd CD and didn't think the game was better or worse because of it. Some of the characters are interesting, but Fei and Elly sure aren't.

Any game can blabber about some random references to 10 religions you found on Wikipedia if it makes no attempt to actually connect them in a meaningful way. Since I saw Eva before I played this game I learned to just tune out the parts that obviously make no sense. Maybe that made the game more bearable. I mean the Elements are named after all the Angels (Dominion, Throne (Tolone), Cherubim (Kelvena was supposed to be Cherubina), Seraphim) but what the heck does these 4 magical girl look alikes have anything to do with angels? Dominia should have been the lowest on the angel hirearchy but she was the leader.

People can't tell what happened in the story because frankly nothing actually happened in the story. You sort of just go around and beat up random stuff and the focus just jumps from one thing to another. At first the enemy was Cain and then it was Ramsus and then Miang and then it was Grahf and then it was Id and then it was Krelian. Again if you just tune out the meaningless transition the game is much more enjoyable. The Elements's random babble between Seraphita and Tolone, for example, is much more interesting than anything the game ever tried to be serious about.

[Zeus]

I pretty much along the same lines with everyone. I loved it the first time I played it but can't go through it again. Unlike the vast majority of people, I was actually happy with the change to almost all-story in the second disc. I was sick of the fighting system that was so great in the beginning but was ultimately broken. I just wanted to continue the story and they did that for me.

The story was quite complex and had lots of religious overtones if I'm not mistaken. Very, very good though.

[SineSwiper]

After I played through Xenosaga, I went back to playing Xenogears, a game I beat 8 years ago. I got through a lot, and yeah, some of the first parts were kinda slow, but then my CD just gave out on me about 10 hours into the game. This Bart sub elevator scene just wouldn't finish, and I was stuck without a way to continue.

Overall, I would have completed the thing otherwise, but I probably don't have a reason to now. Frankly, I liked the 2nd disc, because it was right around the time when the combat was getting boring and I was much more interested in the story (as jumpy and confusing as it was). Don's description is probably pretty accurate, though.

I still regard Xenosaga as one of the best RPG series ever made, though. You don't see RPGs with just that much sheer depth in the story. I actually enjoy going through the encyclopedias, and I guess I do have a weakness for sci-fi.

[Don]

Well Xenogears might be needlessly convoluted and refers to stuff with no way of tying them together, but the story itself is still solid. The Elements might not have anything to do with the angels they are named after, but they are not pointless characters. It's not like some of the later games where if a guy is named after the Tree of Life in some religion they just expect you to accept that obviously means this character is deep. Although the focus of the story jumps all over the place, it places a lot of detail even when it's seemingly just developing character in an episodic way. Even a minor character like say, Hammer, has some kind of story. It'd be nice if they can somehow all tie it together, but it's still a developed story nonetheless. Strip out all the pointless allusions, and the story is still quite good. In fact it's because the allusions are almost meaningless that's why the game does develop everything to cover for it.

I think Xenogears might have been better as an episodic game, like one episode on Emeralda, one on Ramsus and the Elements, one on Maria, one on Grahf and Sophia, and so on. The game tries to tie all these diverse characters together and it really didn't work, but the characters themselves are still interesting.

[Flip]

Thats it, im going to replay the thing. Damn you guys.

[Flip]

Ok, fuck this game.

Ive played for about 5 hours (well, PLAYED for about 30 minutes and watched for 4.5 hours) and was having a good time. On a few occasions, i ventured outside the linear'ness of the story to level up and i got lost on a few more times resulting in more leveling. My guys are leveled above what they need to be and i clean up monsters with no problem.

Then comes Calamity.

In a cave under the desert that i accidentally (its part of the story line) fell into, the last boss to get out is unreasonably strong. I am level 20 and GameFAQs is saying i should be around 25 to have a chance to win, which is total bullshit. I beat the crap out of the surrounding monsters, but they give little exp and the battles take too long for me to have fun leveling 1/4 of my current level higher 'to have a chance of winning'. This game has been cake up until this guy and i seriously dont want to spend two hours leveling.

Xenogears, you lose for now, maybe i'll pick you back up in a few days once i feel better about myself.

[Don]

If I recall, use Bart's Wild Smile and all its attacks will miss. I don't think leveling up makes your Gears any stronger anyway. Status effects work on a ton of stuff in this game. You can for example use the Sleep Rod on The Elements.

[Julius Seeker]

Just to confirm what Don is saying: put that FAQ away, leveling up will make no difference for Gear battles. The only way to power up Gears would be through upgrades. The Calamity battle is a close one, but you should be able to pass it with what you start with; just make sure you're fully healed going into the battle.

[Flip]

If I recall, use Bart's Wild Smile and all its attacks will miss. I don't think leveling up makes your Gears any stronger anyway. Status effects work on a ton of stuff in this game. You can for example use the Sleep Rod on The Elements.

Wild Smile makes 2 out of his 3 attacks miss, yes, i figured that out, but he has one magic attack that will always hit for about 1/5th (450-500) of your life. Since my attacks do 0 damage and my deathblows only do about 60... it takes a lot of turns to beat down his 2500 HP ass. Since gears are new at this point, there is no way to heal them yet and eventually his magic attacks kill me. I havent felt like i wanted to throw my controller since i was 11, but damned if i almost did last night, lol.

[Flip]

Oh, after reading a little more FAQs... it looks like i didnt upgrade my engines. I noticed the engines for purchase had that same fuel capacity as my current gears so i skipped over it, but apparently engines have an 'output' number too which results in higher power. My attacks should be doing damage and my deathblows should be around 120-150 on Calamity. If thats the case he isnt that hard at all. I've been doing half the damage and still almost got him a few times.

[Lox]

I played the game pretty far into the 1st disc. Then I got stuck in some boss battle and got my butt regularly handed to me. Took a few months off and came back and got it handed to me again. In frustration, I tossed my case onto my desk and the 2nd disc popped out and cracked in half. Never finished the game after that.

[Don]

You pretty much always want the best frame and engine on all the Gears you plan to actually use in order to have a chance in the Gear battle since Gears are not affected by your levels, and even then some of the Gear battles are just downright brutal even when you're fully prepared.

I think the Omnigears might get affected by your level in some obscure way, at least that's what the game says, but if they have an effect it's nothing compared to what engine/frame/specials you have on.

[Julius Seeker]

That's it, I am definitely going to play Xenogears as soon as I finish Final Fantasy 8 (which I am currently replaying, showing someone and doing my own cheesy versions of the voice acting =P)

[Kupek]

Blotus, is the thread subject a reference to Talking Time?

[Blotus]

Kupek, not everything in this world is about Jeremy Parish, god dammit.

The title is actually indirectly the fault of Robert Ashley who mentioned this song on a podcast. I had this horrible tune in my head when I started the thread.


Seeker, this week's Retronauts is about some shitty SNES RPG nobody cares about. You may want to listen.

[Kupek]

Kupek, not everything in this world is about Jeremy Parish, god dammit.

You lie.

edit: That song is criminal.

[Blotus]

Hardback or paperback?

[Kupek]

Neither. I kept thinking, "I should buy this" but never did. My roommates moved out in December, so I have to pay the entire rent for my place. Keep in mind I'm a graduate student - after rent and bills, I've cut out all purchases that aren't food.

[Oracle]

I never thought the story was very good overall, but was tolerable.

Highest praise I've heard from Don... ever?

[Don]

I never thought the story was very good overall, but was tolerable.

Highest praise I've heard from Don... ever?

On a story, or in general? So far as games go, the only game I considered to have an excellent story would be Terranigma. There are quite a few game with solid story that aren't interesting but have no obvious drawbacks. Fire Emblem 4 comes to mind as a good representative, and I do appreciate a story that has no obvious flaws even if you can see everything from a mile away.

I normally count being overambitious against a game's story but in Xenogears I sort of just tune out all the part that are just meaningless convoluted because the parts that are good is good enough to make you forget about all the pointless stuff. It's sort of like FF8 has a good story if you just pretend your party really isn't there and the main characters are Laguna and Seifer.

[Flip]

Update: Calamity is a cupcake with the engine upgrade. When i saw it in the store, it said G6-1200. I knew my gear already had 1200 fuel so i didnt buy it, i forgot that the output number matters too, as i only had a G4-1200 engine. With the G6 the fight was easy, time to mooooove on.

[SineSwiper]

Yeah, as I remember, upgrading any chance you got was a big deal in that game, as was in Xenosaga.

[Julius Seeker]

I really hope they continue Xenosaga some time. The story of the trilogy had a fantastic ending, but there was still more to be told. There is still the missing link between Xenogears episode 1 and Xenosaga episode 3. Some things don't make sense either. In particular, Abel's Ark and everyone going down to what we can assume is Xenogears' planet before the Eldrich crash. Of course, it could be that Takahashi changed his mind about how he wanted the Genesis era to unfold.

[Don]

Well for a very long time you don't have an effective way to heal and/or recharge your fuel, and since your gear does not get any of your character's stats, having all the best upgrades is pretty much a necessity.