Utopia Kingdoms

[SineSwiper]

If you want to spend the time on it, send some LCs to the inactive spots (at lv0/1). Sometimes they give you a good amount of resources. I've been doing that a bunch and sometimes I get a good load of 600 per resource.

Also, protection mode only lasts 72 hours. After that, they can't do it for another 6 months.

[kali o.]

Why does one of my recent farms now have a peace treaty with us? How does that work?

[Mental]

So I tried to bypass infantry development altogether, but I made the "mistake" of maxing out my Merchant Skill already (I took two points in Sage first, which I have to say is looking like a decent investment so far) and so I'm running a gnarly surplus, more than I can spend by teching to cavalry for another day or two. That last 10% for Merchant 3 makes a difference. As a result I need to pump some of it into my army or tech, because I'm still surrounded by tougher nations and don't want to be sitting on a pile of resources.

Any ideas? My building queue is full as full can be but I still have a couple levels on Barracks and Training Ground to go before I can build a Stables...

[Mental]

Also, an absolute shitload of new kingdoms just showed up in my area. Any thoughts about whether or not I ought to start being ready to invade some of them?

[Julius Seeker]

Yeah Kali, that one is my fault. I clicked the link to accept peace. I'll send you some resources to cover losses a bit later today. I can't cancel peace for a few days unfortunately. I CAN, however, demand they dump that province for us =)

[kali o.]

Yeah Kali, that one is my fault. I clicked the link to accept peace. I'll send you some resources to cover losses a bit later today. I can't cancel peace for a few days unfortunately. I CAN, however, demand they dump that province for us =)

I don't care, don't send anything. Was just curious (moreso about the mechanics and how it happened). He has 7 days to build up more useless infantry for me to walk through and scavenge.

[Mental]

I edited this post...I blew it, I made Cavalry today after all, and spent a ton of resources on infantry upgrades I probably won't need. But I have pretty decent resource production for my level, so it might not be that bad.

So, advice? My Stables goes up in ten minutes. I don't have any resources now, but I maxed out Merchant and have my resource producers at level 9/10 so I get about 3600 of each resource per day or so, plus I can buy another 1500 of each for coins...still have around 400 or so. And my area of the map is full of new kingdoms now, where I could potentially start farming heavily with Cavalry. I took a point of Scout, so that

I'm going to get a few Quickwalkers. But tomorrow, what would you guys say I should do? Start pumping Cavalry and upgrades, or what?

[SineSwiper]

So I tried to bypass infantry development altogether, but I made the "mistake" of maxing out my Merchant Skill already (I took two points in Sage first, which I have to say is looking like a decent investment so far) and so I'm running a gnarly surplus, more than I can spend by teching to cavalry for another day or two. That last 10% for Merchant 3 makes a difference. As a result I need to pump some of it into my army or tech, because I'm still surrounded by tougher nations and don't want to be sitting on a pile of resources.

Any ideas? My building queue is full as full can be but I still have a couple levels on Barracks and Training Ground to go before I can build a Stables...

Use the rest of the money to build Quickwalkers. After you do, start sending spy missions to the people that fucked you over. Quickwalkers will kill each other in a 1:1 ratio, and if you eliminate his quickwalkers (and defend your castle with quickwalkers so that his spy missions fail), he won't attack you. People don't like attacking without some spy information.

You do risk losing those quickwalkers on an invasion, but they are cheap and easy to make.

EDIT: Don't ever upgrade Swords/Mace/Axe men. They suck completely. Pikemen are okay, and you use try to upgrade to attack 5, so that they can hide behind a tank unit and kill off the cavalry. Also, Longbowmen suck, too. Units that don't suck:

Pikemen - Awesome against cavalry, and fairly cheap to make
Shortbowmen - Cheapest unit in the game with fair amounts of damage in all categories, obsolete later on, but still worth having in some quantities
Crossbowmen - Best archer in the game. Better range than SBM and the cost/dmg ratio is comparable to the SBM, and only exceeded by the HC. You must have many of these units in any army.
Quickwalkers - Needed for spying; enough said
Light Cavalry - Quickest attack unit in the game with the most carrying capacity. I've been finding these guys useful for raiding the inactive lv0/1/2 castles without walls.
Heavy Cavalry - Pure, raw power. By far, the best cost/dmg ratio of any unit (except for cavalry, which Pikemen have), especially when the HP is factored. Only downsides are the range, the attack order, and vulnerability to Pikemen.
Warmage - Wall knockers. Wizards are easy to upgrade, so it's trivial to get their attack to max and get about 15 of these guys to knock down just about any wall, saving the first turn of wizard spells on the other units, instead of wasting it on the wall. Downsides: low HP, and it doesn't do anything else (except tank, which I use for my Pikemen).
Arcanists - Your bread and butter of wizards. Easy to upgrade to max power and comes with a decent amount of HP. The cost/dmg is average, and is beat by units like the HC, CBM, and even SBM. However, the big advantage is being first one in the attack order, which is good for PREVENTING damage, eliminating damage dealers before they even get to attack.
Noblemen - Takes over castles; enough said.

The rest of them: DO NOT BUILD! Maybe build some sword/mace/axe men for cannon fodder, but not in large quantities, and certainly don't waste any money on upgrades for these units.

[KluYa]

*recalls spy march on Mental*

Thanks for the heads up lol.

I don't actually agree with Sine's advice. Picking fights with people who are stronger than you by suiciding your QWs on them won't be to much (any) benefit, since they can replace their QWs faster than you can replace yours. Build up a fair quantity of them before you start killing off your units. Get to level 3 stables as soon as you can, at which point you can dump all kinds of resources into training light cavalry. If you want something to dump resources into before that point and your building queue is full or 2/3 full, train longbowmen. That would be my suggestion, anyway.

By the way, a little trick I used when starting out was to send a friendly message to neighbouring kingdoms that were stronger than me and could potentially attack. I offered to trade resources or whatever in the hope that they'd feel sort of guilty about attacking me and pick a different target. This certainly wasn't the main deterrent (that would be my empty coffers and my wall) but it seems to have helped somewhat hehe.

Warmage - Wall knockers. Wizards are easy to upgrade, so it's trivial to get their attack to max and get about 15 of these guys to knock down just about any wall, saving the first turn of wizard spells on the other units, instead of wasting it on the wall. Downsides: low HP, and it doesn't do anything else (except tank, which I use for my Pikemen)

Warmages ~are~ wizards. They attack when the other wizards attack, and no sooner. You can't save your other wizards by using them.

[SineSwiper]

Warmages ~are~ wizards. They attack when the other wizards attack, and no sooner. You can't save your other wizards by using them.

I've found that in all battles, the Warmages will attack first EVEN BEFORE the other mages. I think this is to make it fair for the Warmage, since the ONLY thing it can do is knock down walls.

Don't believe me? Just look at the battle reports and hit the details of the first round. The warmages always attack first, and then the arcanists. If the wall isn't down, the arcanists waste their first turn on the wall, which defeats the purpose of arcanists, really.

[Mental]

Do arcanists really have 150 damage against things, or is that a typo? It seems so much higher than other units' that I wondered if they slipped in a zero by mistake.

[SineSwiper]

Nope, it's accurate, but their cost does offset that quite a bit. However, the power goes up to 375 fully upgraded.

For god sake, everybody look at the spreadsheet!

[Mental]

It says I don't have access!!!!

[SineSwiper]

Try it again. Fucking Google Docs...

[Mental]

I'm not sure I understand the more advanced statistics. Did you explain them earlier in the thread?

[KluYa]

Do arcanists really have 150 damage against things, or is that a typo? It seems so much higher than other units' that I wondered if they slipped in a zero by mistake.

It's no heavy cavalry but it's not bad. Heh.

I've found that in all battles, the Warmages will attack first EVEN BEFORE the other mages. I think this is to make it fair for the Warmage, since the ONLY thing it can do is knock down walls.

Don't believe me? Just look at the battle reports and hit the details of the first round. The warmages always attack first, and then the arcanists. If the wall isn't down, the arcanists waste their first turn on the wall, which defeats the purpose of arcanists, really.

I have the simulator open at the moment and I'm not seeing it. In spite of the list order, which only puts one unit to a line, the wizards are consistently getting their damage off together and the wall doesn't disappear until after the arcanists attack (preventing them from reaching another row back with their range of 5 even when the wall's HP is 0). What I believe you're talking about is the WMs and arcanists targeting 2 different things simply because they are 2 different units.

[KluYa]

Actually, I'm still playing around with this, and you may be onto something here. Like units are supposed to split into groups to attack if there are enough of them (making warmages obsolete if you have enough arcanists to take down a wall), but this doesn't appear to be happening while the wall is still up. Only after the wall is down am I seeing groups of units split their attacks. Because of this, WMs wouldn't technically be useless. Interesting.

[Eric]

Warmages suck, they're on the front line and get torn to pieces if they ever happen to get targeted by the defending person's army. =/

[KluYa]

Yeah. I prefer to use the arcanists on the wall (from the back row) and heavy cavalry to clean up everyone else, instead of warmages on the wall and arcanists on everyone else. The arcanists get another free hit if the battle happens to last a 2nd round instead of standing around getting punched in the head.

[Mental]

Wow, all of a sudden I've noted a lot of completely undefended castles within marching range that all have thousands in resources.

Failing someone building a sudden wall, my proto-army is going to be busy looting for a few days.

EDIT: You know, while I respect all your dedication to Cavalry (esp. Heavy Cavalry later), with as many close kingdoms around me as I have, march time isn't as big an issue for me. You all mostly started earlier than I did, with kingdoms farther apart, and you're the big boys on the block now, so you don't have much use for looting the density of smaller towns you're close to. But I do, and it doesn't seem right to waste the opportunity I have to quick-build and siphon resources off these towns.

I can see why you need cavalry - for the carrying capacity - but I think I'd be wasting a major opportunity to raid the shit out of these places before they super-tech to walls the way I did, or if they become inactive, to keep farming them. It just doesn't seem like I ought to ignore infantry when they're right next door, since cavalry can't hurt buildings and it would be nice to be able to do something against walls if they throw up a small one.

The game may not quite as unbalanced/broken as you guys think. A lot of it has to do with who your neighbors are, I think.

[kali o.]

Wow, all of a sudden I've noted a lot of completely undefended castles within marching range that all have thousands in resources.

Failing someone building a sudden wall, my proto-army is going to be busy looting for a few days.

EDIT: You know, while I respect all your dedication to Cavalry (esp. Heavy Cavalry later), with as many close kingdoms around me as I have, march time isn't as big an issue for me. You all mostly started earlier than I did, with kingdoms farther apart, and you're the big boys on the block now, so you don't have much use for looting the density of smaller towns you're close to. But I do, and it doesn't seem right to waste the opportunity I have to quick-build and siphon resources off these towns.

I can see why you need cavalry - for the carrying capacity - but I think I'd be wasting a major opportunity to raid the shit out of these places before they super-tech to walls the way I did, or if they become inactive, to keep farming them. It just doesn't seem like I ought to ignore infantry when they're right next door, since cavalry can't hurt buildings and it would be nice to be able to do something against walls if they throw up a small one.

The game may not quite as unbalanced/broken as you guys think. A lot of it has to do with who your neighbors are, I think.

The game isn't unbalanced, it's stupid and flawed (imo at least). And have fun with your infantry looting army, let us know how that works out... (snickers).

[SineSwiper]

Warmages suck, they're on the front line and get torn to pieces if they ever happen to get targeted by the defending person's army. =/

Which is why you should be upgrading their stats to full. I think much later on when you have enough heavy cavalry and arcanists, they are obsolete, but it depends on if the units are going to split between the wall and other units.

Back to KluYa's stuff, about 15 fully upgraded Warmages are all you need to knock down the wall, so you should always bring as many Warmages as you need to remove the wall in one turn. (Do the math: 450dmg per unit = a little over 2 per lvl of wall)

And the stats on that spreadsheet mean:

Rsrc Ttl - Total amount of resources needed to build one unit
5K Ttl - Amount of units you can build with 5K of resources
Ttl HP - Total amount of HP with 5K; the cost/HP ratio
Ttl Carry - Total amount of carry with 5K; the cost/carry ratio
P-X (nHP) - Total amount of power with 5K; the cost/dmg ratio, not factoring HP at all
Pwr (nHP) - Average amount of power with 5K in all 5 categories
P-X*RHP - Total amount of power with 5K with the HP factored in; the cost/dmg/HP ratio
Pwr*RHP - Average P*RHP in all 5 categories

You can sort the ratios to figure out who is the best unit in each category. Obviously, the wizards and archer units, who aren't supposed to get hit much, should be factored without HP, and the stuff like Heavy Cavalry should be factored with HP. There is also a Upgraded tab to show the fully upgraded specs of the unit. Please note that the racial advantages and Order units aren't listed yet.

[Eric]

Warmages suck, they're on the front line and get torn to pieces if they ever happen to get targeted by the defending person's army. =/

Which is why you should be upgrading their stats to full. I think much later on when you have enough heavy cavalry and arcanists, they are obsolete, but it depends on if the units are going to split between the wall and other units.

Back to KluYa's stuff, about 15 fully upgraded Warmages are all you need to knock down the wall, so you should always bring as many Warmages as you need to remove the wall in one turn. (Do the math: 450dmg per unit = a little over 2 per lvl of wall)

And the stats on that spreadsheet mean:

Rsrc Ttl - Total amount of resources needed to build one unit
5K Ttl - Amount of units you can build with 5K of resources
Ttl HP - Total amount of HP with 5K; the cost/HP ratio
Ttl Carry - Total amount of carry with 5K; the cost/carry ratio
P-X (nHP) - Total amount of power with 5K; the cost/dmg ratio, not factoring HP at all
Pwr (nHP) - Average amount of power with 5K in all 5 categories
P-X*RHP - Total amount of power with 5K with the HP factored in; the cost/dmg/HP ratio
Pwr*RHP - Average P*RHP in all 5 categories

You can sort the ratios to figure out who is the best unit in each category. Obviously, the wizards and archer units, who aren't supposed to get hit much, should be factored without HP, and the stuff like Heavy Cavalry should be factored with HP. There is also a Upgraded tab to show the fully upgraded specs of the unit. Please note that the racial advantages and Order units aren't listed yet.

I had their stats upgraded to full, and I have since then lost all of them that I have built due to them being frontline fighters.

[SineSwiper]

You also need cannon fodder to spread the risk and damage. What were you fighting that took out all of your WMs?

[Mental]

The game isn't unbalanced, it's stupid and flawed (imo at least). And have fun with your infantry looting army, let us know how that works out... (snickers).

Can you not be a dick for a day? If you think the game is stupid, stop playing.

I can only train cavalry so fast, and these very close, relatively defenseless towns have lots of resources that need all the carrying capacity I can train up in a relatively short amount of time. I'm training light cavalry constantly, but if I wait for JUST light cavalry, it's going to be slower, I'm going to miss out on grabbing up undefended resources, and I leave myself completely toothless if one of them throws up a wall between the time I spy and the time I get there.

[kali o.]

Can you not be a dick for a day? If you think the game is stupid, stop playing.

I can only train cavalry so fast, and these very close, relatively defenseless towns have lots of resources that need all the carrying capacity I can train up in a relatively short amount of time. I'm training light cavalry constantly, but if I wait for JUST light cavalry, it's going to be slower, I'm going to miss out on grabbing up undefended resources, and I leave myself completely toothless if one of them throws up a wall between the time I spy and the time I get there.

I can no more stop being a dick than you can stop being a cry baby...so there you go.

As for the game, I am willing to play only in the weak hope it gets better as time plays forward - don't like it, don't read my posts. Or QQ and allow me to laugh at you more...what do I care?

As for infantry, I really don't care if you ignore everyones advice and build a weak, slow moving infantry army. Go for it, it's a plan made of fail and thus suits you. Less stupid plans involve not building infantry at all, but you've already ignored those, so good luck.

For the record, when you started and when we started makes no difference. Same tactics for good growth/farming/return apply.

[Eric]

You also need cannon fodder to spread the risk and damage. What were you fighting that took out all of your WMs?

Dude, I had cannon fodder too! lol, I fought a significant opponent, I was wiping out the armies of anyone around me that was a threat.

[Mental]

Can you not be a dick for a day? If you think the game is stupid, stop playing.

I can only train cavalry so fast, and these very close, relatively defenseless towns have lots of resources that need all the carrying capacity I can train up in a relatively short amount of time. I'm training light cavalry constantly, but if I wait for JUST light cavalry, it's going to be slower, I'm going to miss out on grabbing up undefended resources, and I leave myself completely toothless if one of them throws up a wall between the time I spy and the time I get there.

I can no more stop being a dick than you can stop being a cry baby...so there you go.

As for the game, I am willing to play only in the weak hope it gets better as time plays forward - don't like it, don't read my posts. Or QQ and allow me to laugh at you more...what do I care?

As for infantry, I really don't care if you ignore everyones advice and build a weak, slow moving infantry army. Go for it, it's a plan made of fail and thus suits you. Less stupid plans involve not building infantry at all, but you've already ignored those, so good luck.

For the record, when you started and when we started makes no difference. Same tactics for good growth/farming/return apply.

At some point, I hope you learn what a waste of time and energy it is to provoke so much conflict. There are plenty of ways to say what you wanted to say without using so much loaded language, or to say it with some kind of civility. I've certainly been trying, though I certainly haven't been perfect either.

For now, I don't see a need for us to discuss it further.

[Mental]

The one aspect of the game where I agree with you guys that the design is retarded is the "killer wall" thing. A level one wall is the equivalent of 50 shortbowmen, and hardly anyone who builds a wall only builds one level of it. I feel like it would have been better designed to give a much smaller amount of damage plus a defense and offense multiplier to your units up to a certain number...just seems unrealistic for a bunch of townspeople surrounded by massive bunkers to beat huge armies.

Then again, you never invade Russia in winter, so...

If you beat someone with a wall, does the wall fall down? Or if someone has, say, a level 7 wall, does it stick around with the town after you win the battle, forcing you to fight it all over again?

[kali o.]

Can you not be a dick for a day? If you think the game is stupid, stop playing.

I can only train cavalry so fast, and these very close, relatively defenseless towns have lots of resources that need all the carrying capacity I can train up in a relatively short amount of time. I'm training light cavalry constantly, but if I wait for JUST light cavalry, it's going to be slower, I'm going to miss out on grabbing up undefended resources, and I leave myself completely toothless if one of them throws up a wall between the time I spy and the time I get there.

I can no more stop being a dick than you can stop being a cry baby...so there you go.

As for the game, I am willing to play only in the weak hope it gets better as time plays forward - don't like it, don't read my posts. Or QQ and allow me to laugh at you more...what do I care?

As for infantry, I really don't care if you ignore everyones advice and build a weak, slow moving infantry army. Go for it, it's a plan made of fail and thus suits you. Less stupid plans involve not building infantry at all, but you've already ignored those, so good luck.

For the record, when you started and when we started makes no difference. Same tactics for good growth/farming/return apply.

At some point, I hope you learn what a waste of time and energy it is to provoke so much conflict. There are plenty of ways to say what you wanted to say without using so much loaded language, or to say it with some kind of civility. I've certainly been trying, though I certainly haven't been perfect either.

For now, I don't see a need for us to discuss it further.

Sit down and shut the fuck up, hypocrite.

[Mental]

I have indeed been trying to be more civil since I came back last year. I'm hardly claiming that the "old me" was particularly inclined to be civil. In the old days, we would have had a huge, ugly flame war already.

Now, I value this online community more. So I just wish you the best.

[KluYa]

The wall stays. Every time you attack someone, you'll have to go through the wall first even if you've destroyed it in a previous attack. There are wizards with a chance to lower the level of buildings in a kingdom by 1, and that can weaken a wall if it hits, but barring that you'll need to go through the wall each time.

[kali o.]

I have indeed been trying to be more civil since I came back last year. I'm hardly claiming that the "old me" was particularly inclined to be civil. In the old days, we would have had a huge, ugly flame war already.

Now, I value this online community more. So I just wish you the best.

I'd imagine your ease stems more from my change than any personal growth. Rather than play with you, I simply told you to fuck off - it does away with any pretense or entertainment value, but has the advantage of succinctly expressing my stance on any QQ issue with you.

On a nicer note, I'm glad you value the community more and no longer view it as a "disrespectful, horrid little nerd internet fagfest that you intend to fuck in the ass with lawsuits and ISP letter writing campaigns"...

Wait, mebbe that wasn't a nicer note...that might have been my counter to your "I'm on a pedestal after I baited you, here's my last word" technique. So what the fuck was my nicer note gonna be..?

Oh ya. All the best to you too bud.

The wall stays. Every time you attack someone, you'll have to go through the wall first even if you've destroyed it in a previous attack. There are wizards with a chance to lower the level of buildings in a kingdom by 1, and that can weaken a wall if it hits, but barring that you'll need to go through the wall each time.

It's worth noting that walls are no longer an issue after a certain point. Personally, I use WM's to blow through em, but that has the disadvantage of making armies incredibly slow. I've heard people having success using crossbow armies to farm -- I haven't explored that option yet (I really hate losing troops). I think it has something to do with placing the tank (probably cav for just a wall) in the front line and xbows at the far back...out of range of wall attacks I think. I don't TOTALLY understand the range concept yet, nor the placement strategies/mechanics.

[KluYa]

The wall stays. Every time you attack someone, you'll have to go through the wall first even if you've destroyed it in a previous attack. There are wizards with a chance to lower the level of buildings in a kingdom by 1, and that can weaken a wall if it hits, but barring that you'll need to go through the wall each time.

It's worth noting that walls are no longer an issue after a certain point. Personally, I use WM's to blow through em, but that has the disadvantage of making armies incredibly slow. I've heard people having success using crossbow armies to farm -- I haven't explored that option yet (I really hate losing troops). I think it has something to do with placing the tank (probably cav for just a wall) in the front line and xbows at the far back...out of range of wall attacks I think. I don't TOTALLY understand the range concept yet, nor the placement strategies/mechanics.

Walls are next to useless as kingdoms become stronger. I've had enough power with wizards alone to take out a max wall (level 20) in one shot for a long time now.

I use archers to knock down walls whenever possible and farm kingdoms that way. It's a great option when the kingdom has only a wall and no army behind it. I lose exactly 1 fodder unit (a shortbowman or a pikeman usually) for every raid I make this way. Because longbowmen and crossbowmen have a range of 4, you can stick them in the far back row and they can still target the wall while the wall with it's range of 3 cannot hit your archers and has to settle for the single unit you stick in row 1 in order to soak up all the damage. Units that are simply along to carry back resources, such as light cavalry, can stay back with the archers with no risk of being hit.

[kali o.]

The wall stays. Every time you attack someone, you'll have to go through the wall first even if you've destroyed it in a previous attack. There are wizards with a chance to lower the level of buildings in a kingdom by 1, and that can weaken a wall if it hits, but barring that you'll need to go through the wall each time.

It's worth noting that walls are no longer an issue after a certain point. Personally, I use WM's to blow through em, but that has the disadvantage of making armies incredibly slow. I've heard people having success using crossbow armies to farm -- I haven't explored that option yet (I really hate losing troops). I think it has something to do with placing the tank (probably cav for just a wall) in the front line and xbows at the far back...out of range of wall attacks I think. I don't TOTALLY understand the range concept yet, nor the placement strategies/mechanics.

Walls are next to useless as kingdoms become stronger. I've had enough power with wizards alone to take out a max wall (level 20) in one shot for a long time now.

I use archers to knock down walls whenever possible and farm kingdoms that way. It's a great option when the kingdom has only a wall and no army behind it. I lose exactly 1 fodder unit (a shortbowman or a pikeman usually) for every raid I make this way. Because longbowmen and crossbowmen have a range of 4, you can stick them in the far back row and they can still target the wall while the wall with it's range of 3 cannot hit your archers and has to settle for the single unit you stick in row 1 in order to soak up all the damage. Units that are simply along to carry back resources, such as light cavalry, can stay back with the archers with no risk of being hit.

Ah, I see. So the tank is the fodder unit of one disposible soldier. Let's assume for a second the wall round lasts longer than a single turn. If your fodder unit is dead, how does the rest of the rounds play out? Know what I mean?

[SineSwiper]

Ah, I see. So the tank is the fodder unit of one disposible soldier. Let's assume for a second the wall round lasts longer than a single turn. If your fodder unit is dead, how does the rest of the rounds play out? Know what I mean?

The rest of the rows move down a notch (or 3, depending on gaps), and they are vulnerable to attack. So, don't make it last more rounds than that.

[kali o.]

Ah, I see. So the tank is the fodder unit of one disposible soldier. Let's assume for a second the wall round lasts longer than a single turn. If your fodder unit is dead, how does the rest of the rounds play out? Know what I mean?

The rest of the rows move down a notch (or 3, depending on gaps), and they are vulnerable to attack. So, don't make it last more rounds than that.

Hmmm, I see. Then three follow up questions:

1) Do gaps in the placement matter. ie: all 3 vertical spaces need to be populated for range to be in effect or does an emtpy middle row not matter?

2) Same question, but vertically (ie: 1 cav unit [horizontal row 1, vertical row 1], 500 crossbow [horizontal row 2, vertical row 3]).

3) Do enemy units (either walls or soldiers) attack randomly within thier range or is it governed by some formula?

Bonus question, is unit range determined by their placement on a given side or is it the line between armies is range-Zero? So if your crossbow men are in the back, can they hit one space into the enemy or four? Now that I typed that out, I'm betting the former - it makes more sense tactically and on the basis that armies are only 3 lines deep

[KluYa]

Ah, I see. So the tank is the fodder unit of one disposible soldier. Let's assume for a second the wall round lasts longer than a single turn. If your fodder unit is dead, how does the rest of the rounds play out? Know what I mean?

The rest of the rows move down a notch (or 3, depending on gaps), and they are vulnerable to attack. So, don't make it last more rounds than that.

Yeah, or stick more than one type of unit in the first row. The back row will be safe from a wall as long as the entire first row isn't yet completely wiped out. If the battle will last two turns, you could use 1 pikeman and 1 axeman for example, and one of those will die each round from the wall but your important units will remain safe in the back. For longer battles than that, there are all sorts of disposable units which can be used as fodder. Once the first row is empty, the other rows behind slide up until there are units in the first row again.

[KluYa]

Hmmm, I see. Then three follow up questions:

1) Do gaps in the placement matter. ie: all 3 vertical spaces need to be populated for range to be in effect or does an emtpy middle row not matter?

2) Same question, but vertically (ie: 1 cav unit [horizontal row 1, vertical row 1], 500 crossbow [horizontal row 2, vertical row 3]).

3) Do enemy units (either walls or soldiers) attack randomly within thier range or is it governed by some formula?

Bonus question, is unit range determined by their placement on a given side or is it the line between armies is range-Zero? So if your crossbow men are in the back, can they hit one space into the enemy or four? Now that I typed that out, I'm betting the former - it makes more sense tactically and on the basis that armies are only 3 lines deep

For questions 1 and 2, gaps aren't relevant in regard to range and empty rows behind still count as long as someone is standing in row 1. Gaps only help in preventing "splash damage" which basically means that when a group of defending archers attack a square, some of them could miss and hit any of the surrounding squares instead (including diagonal squares). Those attacks hit whoever might be standing there.

For question 3, the target is randomly picked from within a unit's range. The exception is when a wall in present. All units which the wall is in range of will always target the wall and never the units behind... until the wall is taken out.

For bonus marks, yes it's the former. Archers have to shoot over their own troops, etc. An enemy wall counts as a row also, giving a defender up to 5 rows and up to 4 on the attacking side.

[Mental]

"disrespectful, horrid little nerd internet fagfest that you intend to fuck in the ass with lawsuits and ISP letter writing campaigns"...

I just want everyone to be clear that I never said this.

As a matter of fact, given that my major blowup with people here was over the use of language that I perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be homophobic, it's unlikely that I would ever use the word "fagfest".

In any case, this is dragging up old mud. There's no purpose. Let's move on.

[kali o.]

I just want everyone to be clear that I never said this.

As a matter of fact, given that my major blowup with people here was over the use of language that I perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be homophobic, it's unlikely that I would ever use the word "fagfest".

In any case, this is dragging up old mud. There's no purpose. Let's move on.

You said all those words/actions, they were the "Best of..." your parting shots. The string is a compilation, but the content is all you baby.

Old mud, new mud, who cares. Mud is mud. And I moved on -- I'm just not letting ya have the last word

[Mental]

Hey, Sine - I think I have a potential improvement to suggest in your unit type calculations.

All your calculations are based on round-by-round conflict. But units with higher hit points are going to have a better chance of surviving into the second round when attacked, where they'll deal their full damage again.

If a group of Shortbowmen take 180 damage, twelve will die, and that's 180 less damage that will be dealt next round.

But one Light Cavalry that takes 180 damage will survive, and still deal its full 100 damage next round as well, leading to 200 points of damage over the course of the two rounds, plus it can heal back to full. Do you see what I'm saying? (The numbers are against infantry, but the principle is valid in both senses.)

That means that high-HP units would have an advantage in multi-round battles. I wonder if we could make up a statistic to take advantage of that.

[Mental]

As a matter of fact, given that my major blowup with people here was over the use of language that I perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be homophobic, it's unlikely that I would ever use the word "fagfest".

My mistake. I did indeed say that at one point - two years ago - for reasons that have long since ceased to matter. I also have apologized for saying it and the other things I said.

It was a parting shot in a very, very ugly fight that's long gone by, and has absolutely nothing to do with today. It also has nothing to do with Utopia. So let's get back on track.

[Mental]

One other thing I'm noting is - armies that consist of all Cavalry are massively speedy, which I'm guessing is a main factor in their appeal. If you use just Cavalry units, you're moving about twice as fast as infantry across the map, right?

But - and correct me if I'm wrong, anyone - since both Light and Heavy Cavalry have 0 power against buildings, without any Cavalry Archers, if someone tosses up even a level 1 wall, all your cavalry die, period, even really expensive heavy cavalry.

And if you put any other units in your army, it will slow it down like molasses.

So does this mean that running cavalry raids is a risky business? That you can only benefit from speedy raids against inactives or very low level players that won't accidentally throw up a Wall in the time it takes you to march there? Cavalry Archers don't show up until later in the game, when you can get Wizards too.

[kali o.]

My mistake. I did indeed say that at one point - two years ago - for reasons that have long since ceased to matter. I also have apologized for saying it and the other things I said.

It was a parting shot in a very, very ugly fight that's long gone by, and has absolutely nothing to do with today. It also has nothing to do with Utopia. So let's get back on track.

Don't bait me if you don't want my attention... But I suspect you did.

[KluYa]

One other thing I'm noting is - armies that consist of all Cavalry are massively speedy, which I'm guessing is a main factor in their appeal. If you use just Cavalry units, you're moving about twice as fast as infantry across the map, right?

But - and correct me if I'm wrong, anyone - since both Light and Heavy Cavalry have 0 power against buildings, without any Cavalry Archers, if someone tosses up even a level 1 wall, all your cavalry die, period, even really expensive heavy cavalry.

And if you put any other units in your army, it will slow it down like molasses.

So does this mean that running cavalry raids is a risky business? That you can only benefit from speedy raids against inactives or very low level players that won't accidentally throw up a Wall in the time it takes you to march there? Cavalry Archers don't show up until later in the game, when you can get Wizards too.

No army, and next to no attack of any size, will employ a single unit type exclusively. Cavalry, wizards, and archers are all handy in their own way and should be utilized accordingly. Infantry kinda blow, but oh well. I meant to tell you back when you were on your kick about focusing solely on arcanists that the game requires 500 population worth of forces who ~aren't~ wizards to accompany any attack, or wizards cannot be deployed.

The only real problem with cavalry is their ineffectiveness against walls, so enough archers or wizards need to tag along and take out the wall for them. Wizards by themselves won't march and carry next to nothing anyway, and archers by themselves can sorta work in the early stages of the game, but aren't very strong and would need to be retrained, and again don't carry nearly what the cavalry do. Each unit type (but definitely not each unit) has it's use.

Sending out cavalry by itself would mostly be for scavenging, not attacking. You can scoop up resources without engaging in any kind of battle and the rewards can be pretty substantial. I've attacked kingdoms a number of times not to plunder their coffers but simply so that I could kill off their army and then enjoy a big payday scavenging what lies around on the battlefield.

[Eric]

My mistake. I did indeed say that at one point - two years ago - for reasons that have long since ceased to matter. I also have apologized for saying it and the other things I said.

It was a parting shot in a very, very ugly fight that's long gone by, and has absolutely nothing to do with today. It also has nothing to do with Utopia. So let's get back on track.

Don't bait me if you don't want my attention... But I suspect you did.

*I* want your attention Kali. *Basks in your glory* :p

[kali o.]

*I* want your attention Kali. *Basks in your glory* :p

Then I will dredge up the past and poke fun at you for pretending to be yor brother. Grab your own identity, pussy.


(disclaimer: at least I think that's what happened...way too long ago to remember clearly)

[Mental]

No army, and next to no attack of any size, will employ a single unit type exclusively. Cavalry, wizards, and archers are all handy in their own way and should be utilized accordingly. Infantry kinda blow, but oh well. I meant to tell you back when you were on your kick about focusing solely on arcanists that the game requires 500 population worth of forces who ~aren't~ wizards to accompany any attack, or wizards cannot be deployed.

I knew about the cap. I just didn't know how long it takes to get there, so you may rest assured I'm following a balanced strategy after all.

[Eric]

*I* want your attention Kali. *Basks in your glory* :p

Then I will dredge up the past and poke fun at you for pretending to be yor brother. Grab your own identity, pussy.


(disclaimer: at least I think that's what happened...way too long ago to remember clearly)

I counter by making fun of your memory! You're...old!