Utopia Kingdoms

[Mental]

Screw this. I'm tired of attacking because it takes too long. So I'm going to tech up and wipe out the spies of these aggressors myself, even if I can't do the armies.

Give me a day or two and I'll have them on lock (or else will have started a war, but whatever, it's already on, apparently).

[Mental]

...sigh. I'm addicted to this game like crack.

I don't think I can take down these guys' spies alone though. We need to start calling for a unilateral QW blitz on anyone who attacks us.

[SineSwiper]

I'm starting not to like how these battles work. Everything has to be one on one. There's no way to band together to fight a common enemy. It kinda dilutes the concept of a clan.

[Julius Seeker]

I have appointed Sine Imperator of the Clan for the duration of this war. Any objections?

[SineSwiper]

I'm not sure if I really care any more. I've just been sending resources to grokki, in an attempt to beef up an army. Again, I do not like the battle mechanics, since they degrade everything to a one-on-one battle.

[Julius Seeker]

That's a major thing that Tribal Wars has over Utopia Kingdoms. I'll explain it later. Essentially while battles are still 1 vs 1, in a conflict there's always going to be multiple battles involved since there is a limit to an army unit size; it will be a series of smaller military units fighting each other and fighting for resources and conquest of cities. Sure you can stack a huge army into one city, but it has to be supplied from other locations which are then left vulnerable. Players usually focus on eating up barbarian villages around them before attacking other active players (which makes no sense early on). So even a little guy can make an impact on an enormous player; granted, unless the little guy has a lot of backing he will likely be eaten alive =P

[KluYa]

I'm starting not to like how these battles work. Everything has to be one on one. There's no way to band together to fight a common enemy. It kinda dilutes the concept of a clan.

Can you elaborate further? What is stopping a group of smaller players from attacking the same target? I've done this before with my friends and allies. You can also kill off their QWs relentlessly... heh.

My order is up now. Time to conquer some castles.

[Mental]

To prevent myself from getting bored and not playing anymore, I'm trying another exotic strat - raising an army of Fireslingers early (maybe even Stormcallers, but those get pricey) and playing with the building-slag mechanism. Interestingly, it looks like you only can lower one building per attack (I believe) but Stormcallers and Fireslingers stack to give you the total percentage chance. It's obviously ridiculously low now while I have 3, but once one gets around 150 of them you have a 5% chance to knock down a building, and I can run multiple attacks per day.

Just bored really, it's not the most efficient strat, but maybe it will make me feared in the area a bit.

[Eric]

So confusing, I attacked a guy with 11k of each resource, and a relatively large standing army, My army arrives, and he has 14 Longbowmen, and like 1k of each resource.

It occured to me he might have logged in right before the attack and sent out his army, but I checked the world map and he's been off for 8 hours.

I also consider maybe somebody attacked him before me, but if that's the case why did 14 Longbowmen still greet my army if he wasn't online to login and click his barracks, it doesn't make sense.

[kali o.]

So confusing, I attacked a guy with 11k of each resource, and a relatively large standing army, My army arrives, and he has 14 Longbowmen, and like 1k of each resource.

It occured to me he might have logged in right before the attack and sent out his army, but I checked the world map and he's been off for 8 hours.

I also consider maybe somebody attacked him before me, but if that's the case why did 14 Longbowmen still greet my army if he wasn't online to login and click his barracks, it doesn't make sense.

My guess would be they "fled" during an earlier attack. Fleeing units return after the battle (I was never attacked, but I assume the same mechanics apply defensively).

Edit: the other option being that he was training LB before he was attacked...though I *think* there is the bug where queued troops aren't really made/active until you revisit the barracks manually.

[Eric]

That big fucker has been claiming castles around my area. Might have been him.

[SineSwiper]

I'm starting not to like how these battles work. Everything has to be one on one. There's no way to band together to fight a common enemy. It kinda dilutes the concept of a clan.

Can you elaborate further? What is stopping a group of smaller players from attacking the same target? I've done this before with my friends and allies. You can also kill off their QWs relentlessly... heh.

My order is up now. Time to conquer some castles.

This proves ineffective. Let's say that you had an army with 300 CBM attack an army with 1200 CBM (with some extra units on both sides). The larger army would wipe out the 300 CBM with little effort. If you did that 4 times, the story would be the same.

However, if that army was 1200 CBM versus 1200 CBM, the outcome would be much different. Same numbers as 300 * 4, but different deployment.

[KluYa]

Oh I see. Any idea why that would be true? It's just that we've been rather successful at the various planned gangbangs I've organized (one of which I posted about here I think). I suppose we could have been lucky with the random targeting in every instance.

To make it work, we make sure we intel their force at home and their current formation via test skirmish, then we fine tune each wave accordingly. If a portion of their force is out on a raid, it's a great opportunity to gang on on his remaining forces to break him, but timing this requires a well organized plan of attack. At least one wave needs to be sacrificed in it's entirety to take down a stronger army, so the players that get in first should not send more than what they'll be able to live without.

The key behind the effectiveness of this (at least for us) is that the battle mechanics in this game heavily favour the attacker - particularly by abusing the formation system. I've been able to wipe out the armies of kingdoms 3 levels above me with much larger forces, without help from any other kingdoms. I've also seen 5 level 13-14s wipe out a level 19 (and make him reset his account lol), so I know it's possible.

[Mental]

It helps that your clan has something like fifteen of the top twenty spots, Klu, and that you are included in that list.

[KluYa]

I've been a member of that clan for about 3 hours. I was talking about smaller kingdoms ganging up on a larger one.

I accepted their invitation simply because they were the first clan to ask. lol. Clan philosophy is that of bloodshed. We pick a random clan, make them all quit UK, and farm their accounts. It's for the greater good. Conquering the planet will surely result in an adjustment to battle mechanics in the next age.

[Julius Seeker]

I'll continue playing my Utopia Kingdoms account; but I think I am going to play one of the new Tribal Wars Servers; they're just too tempting right now. The fact that the formation thing can be so easily abused makes Utopia Kingdoms very unappealing to me. While Utopia Kingdoms has the name "Utopia" in it, it is not like Utopia, it is a Tribal Wars clone which needs a lot of rethinking and rebalancing. I hate calling it a Tribal Wars clone because Utopia Kingdoms doesn't have even close to the emphasis that Tribal Wars has on politics and conquest; which is one of the things that made Tribal Wars fun.

[SineSwiper]

Case in point. I had 397 CBM and 50 Arc, fully upgraded. Not nearly as large as his army, but enough to put in a dent. Or so you think.

Twelve Heavy Cavalry. Twelve. Twelve in three fucking rounds. I kill only twelve HCs in three rounds.

Another example. This time the army was fairly large. End result: 146 HCs. That's it.

This guy has steamrolled half of the clan without breaking a sweat, and this is what I have to show for it? I could try to rebuild it in a few days, but what's the point? Spending all of that money just to kill another 12 HC, which he can rebuild just by scavenging the remains? I started this war because I figured 12:1 was pretty good odds, but this game is flawed beyond reason, so those odds go out the window.

This game is designed for people who are lucky enough not to get hit for a month, and who have no life outside the game. Shit, I played the game about 2-3 times a day and kept up with it. You think I'm going to waste my fucking time on Tribal Wars now? I have better things to do.

[Julius Seeker]

I'm still going to play. Tribal Wars isn't broken like UK.

[Mental]

I'm getting to be over it too, even though I'm rocking and rolling my area. If you're not going to play anymore, Sine, I might dissolve my account too.

[SineSwiper]

I'm still going to play. Tribal Wars isn't broken like UK.

Yeah, it is. You said it yourself. It takes the entire day to keep up with the game after a while. I don't need that type of time sink.

[kali o.]

Yeah, it is. You said it yourself. It takes the entire day to keep up with the game after a while. I don't need that type of time sink.

How does having alot to do in a browser game equal broken, in your head?

You apparently liked UK, whereas I quickly saw just how shitty it was. But I had a comparison. Tribal Wars. It's a far better game, evident immediately by the amount of players. Give it a go or don't (I think you'd like it) but don't call it broken like a dumbass.

[SineSwiper]

Think about it. The game is about bottom feeding players that aren't playing. If you aren't playing 24/7, you will become food just like everybody else. The game rewards playing more than the other guy.

In any case, I don't care if Tribal Wars is broken or not. It's still a huge time sink, so I'm not going to bother.

[kali o.]

Think about it. The game is about bottom feeding players that aren't playing. If you aren't playing 24/7, you will become food just like everybody else. The game rewards playing more than the other guy.

In any case, I don't care if Tribal Wars is broken or not. It's still a huge time sink, so I'm not going to bother.

I'd say success in TW is ultimately about coordination, not bottomfeeding (barbs represent the majority of growth farms). I'd also say TW requires far less logging (ie: more casual friendly), at least beyond dodging and coordinating attacks.

I'd also say I'm stupid for arguing with you when I am well aware of how stubborn you are over subjects you are admittedly clueless about, yet have somehow formed a definitive opinion...

[Mental]

Is anyone still playing this?

I'm still dominating my region, but I don't feel very good about playing anymore. People are starting to send me messages like "Please stop, I can't be or do anything", and to be honest I'm just not that interested in taking part in a game where the stronger players beat and abuse the smaller ones, turning them into a permanent underclass who have no fun playing the game or doing anything.

[Shellie]

I deleted my account. I got tired of trying to build an army only to be crushed once a week.

[KluYa]

I still play it. Also accepting all charitable donations from people who decide to quit!

Hitting people who aren't inactive and don't want any trouble with you is not a requirement to play, so the game hasn't caused me any moral strife yet. It might be hurting my growth somewhat, seeing as I've slipped a bit on the ranks lately, but oh well. I'll live.

[Mental]

I've completely destroyed probably seven or eight people around me by now, two of whom have protested, and another of whom I sent a message to because I was starting to feel bad.

This game is geared around the strong beating the weak into paralysis. I dunno...I'll have to think about it.

If I do end up quitting, Klu, I'll just bump up my Store House behind my sizable army, spend all my coins, send you the resulting payoff, then point my army at someone you don't like in one kamikaze blitz and let you know of the timing so you can pick up all the lovely, lovely carrion.

[Julius Seeker]

I started Tribal Wars, server 39, North West. Username: Caracalla (The Roman Emperor depicted as my avatar in UK)

[Eric]

I still play it. Also accepting all charitable donations from people who decide to quit!

Hitting people who aren't inactive and don't want any trouble with you is not a requirement to play, so the game hasn't caused me any moral strife yet. It might be hurting my growth somewhat, seeing as I've slipped a bit on the ranks lately, but oh well. I'll live.

Is there a cap on Calvalry Archers too?

[KluYa]

I still play it. Also accepting all charitable donations from people who decide to quit!

Hitting people who aren't inactive and don't want any trouble with you is not a requirement to play, so the game hasn't caused me any moral strife yet. It might be hurting my growth somewhat, seeing as I've slipped a bit on the ranks lately, but oh well. I'll live.

Is there a cap on Calvalry Archers too?

Oh that cap on HC evidently doesn't even exist. I heard that there was supposed a cap but my HC is well over 500 now so I guess he was talking out of his ass.

[Shellie]

Can someone look and see if my castle at 85:105 is still there or not? Just curious to see if they actually removed everything or made me inactive.

[KluYa]

[85:105] is empty.

[Eric]

I'm out of the game, logged in 5 minutes after my army was wiped.

[Anarky]

Game is pretty much over for me. I cannot establish a new military and I keep getting attacked.

Game is broken

[Mental]

Enthusiasm seems to be waning, eh?

IDK, I may be ready to give it up too. The PvP on this one is absolutely punishing. The stronger player always wins the battle, period, unless they screw up their formations. And cnce you're dead, you're dead. If you're within someone 5-6 levels ahead of you and they're aggressive, you're going to see the sack of Rome every few hours after they blitz your army to the ground. If any of the level 21-22s around me decided to really wipe me out, it would be over. And as it is I've probably put six or seven people effectively out of the game already.

[Mental]

I'm out of the game...a level 22 wiped me out completely this morning, just after I wiped out a level 10.

So, I finally agree. As the game progresses the mechanics become completely broken, not fun at all. The higher player always wins with very small losses, completely wiping out any smaller player with no hope of ever coming back. One of the most unfulfilling gaming experiences I've ever had - or rather one of the most disappointing, just because if the numbers and attack system and everything else weren't completely fucking broken, it could have been a really awesome game.

The worst part is, back when I was enjoying the game I sent them a very small payment, since I felt like I was having a lot of fun and wanted to support the developers (not really enough coins to make a huge difference). Boy, do I feel like an idiot now.

[Mental]

As the game goes on, only the highest level players will ever have armies, and those armies will be so massive nobody can ever challenge them.

What a waste of potential.

[Mental]

My post on their forums, explaining why I believe that they are no doubt seeing people leave in droves:

http://forums.joltonline.com/showthread ... st14832991

After playing three or four weeks on this foolishness it's odd to go cold turkey, but after watching how the game is played and seeing all of us get wiped no matter what we do, there's absolutely no reason to keep going.

[Mental]

There's a lot of discussion around this, and it will hopefully change in the near future. Because I completely agree that something needs to change - I think we all do.

I hope you're not missing the irony of the fact that you repeatedly picked on seven people and they stuck with it, but after one hit from someone bigger than you you're packing up your toys and going home. I guess you know how they felt now - except that they apparently stuck with it and didn't quit when the going got a little tough. Maybe you won't repeatedly pick on the same people in the next game you play.

Just...wow. I can't believe this is a real moderator saying this shit. They want to talk down to me for playing along with their own fucked-up game mechanics.

Do I look like I made up this retarded-ass game? There are no words.

[Don]

I played Utopia a long time ago and it was pretty clear that even if Sun Tzu, Zhuge Liang, and all the greatest strategist got together to play the game, they'd still totally lose if they have a smaller army and especially if they can't play as often as some guy who is on 24/7. Looks like it hasn't changed much.

I'm surprised they managed to keep the same broken model going for so long. It sounds like people always thought 'this time it might not be broken?'

[Anarky]

I played Utopia a long time ago and it was pretty clear that even if Sun Tzu, Zhuge Liang, and all the greatest strategist got together to play the game, they'd still totally lose if they have a smaller army and especially if they can't play as often as some guy who is on 24/7. Looks like it hasn't changed much.

I'm surprised they managed to keep the same broken model going for so long. It sounds like people always thought 'this time it might not be broken?'

Regular Utopia wasn't really that broken. Sure it benefited from more time spent in game.

But the Utopia Kingdoms we've been playing is just broken

[Don]

I played Utopia a long time ago and it was pretty clear that even if Sun Tzu, Zhuge Liang, and all the greatest strategist got together to play the game, they'd still totally lose if they have a smaller army and especially if they can't play as often as some guy who is on 24/7. Looks like it hasn't changed much.

I'm surprised they managed to keep the same broken model going for so long. It sounds like people always thought 'this time it might not be broken?'

Regular Utopia wasn't really that broken. Sure it benefited from more time spent in game.

But the Utopia Kingdoms we've been playing is just broken

I don't think Utopia has ever solved the 'bigger = auto win' issue without adding some equally cheesy mechanism on defense to compensate.

A purely tactical strategy game is just tough to balance. Even Civilization you get to move your units around and that obviously makes a very significant impact on the outcome.

[Mental]

I'm still amazed that the forum mod was talking trash to me for "picking on people" when it's their own broken game that causes people to attack 6-7 levels below them.

I thought the game had a decent amount of balance up until level 11 or so when people don't have huge armies that took weeks to build or Wizards yet, but after that, you were all right and I should have listened early on, the game is broken and fucked up.

Oh, well. Maybe other people have been bitching them out for terrible game balance too. It can't be easy to get vented at all the time.

[Mental]

Bottomfeeding is king and the combat system is retarded, again this needs little to no explanation for those of you that have experienced combat. If you attack somebody, and win, you wipe out their entire army, and wiping out armies isn't limited to smaller provinces, this means 3 months into the game when somebody comes through and wipes out your army of 20,000 archers(random number/unit), you need to rebuild them, which is completely and utterly unreasonable. You will never recover from that kind of attack. My current clan mates have offered the idea of sending your army out on patrol regularly in order to protect them, since losing resources > losing your army. Why in the fuck do I NEED TO PROTECT MY ARMY FROM BEING WIPED OUT WHEN MY KINGDOM IS ATTACKED.

Needless to say I hope they take a good hard look at this game, because it has potential, but it's current form is extremely flawed. They need to make it more like Utopia Classic in terms of balance/flow and less like whatever game they blatantly and obviously copied.

We probably all could have saved ourselves a few weeks of nonsense if we'd listened to this back when. I feel like an idiot (rather justifiably) for how into this game I was even a week ago.

[KluYa]

You guys are dropping like flies. Soon I'll be the only one left. Then I'll feel like the guy in 28 Days Later.