Bill Clinton

[bovine]

He gets shit done, son.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8184583.stm

long story short,

he strolls into north korea, and those two reporters sentenced to 12 years hard labour are now pardoned.

[Kupek]

That was fast. I was listening to NPR reports that he landed just this morning.

[Flip]

Slick Willy is the man, he gets whatever he wants.

[Oracle]

Slick Willy is the man, he gets whatever he wants.

Somehow I'm thinking ol' Kimmy is the one who gets what he wants. I'm interested in what he got out of this deal.

[Oracle]

hmm, double post. That's odd...

[Imakeholesinu]

Slick Willy is the man, he gets whatever he wants.

Somehow I'm thinking ol' Kimmy is the one who gets what he wants. I'm interested in what he got out of this deal.

A buck rogers lunch box, two six shooter cap guns and a miniature pony and a mask of George W. Bush.

[SineSwiper]

He gets shit done, son.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8184583.stm

long story short,

he strolls into north korea, and those two reporters sentenced to 12 years hard labour are now pardoned.

He's the new Jimmy Carter!

[Shrinweck]

Slick Willy is the man, he gets whatever he wants.

Somehow I'm thinking ol' Kimmy is the one who gets what he wants. I'm interested in what he got out of this deal.

The optimist in me wants to believe that he only wanted the showing of respect from us.

[Mental]

Slick Willy is the man, he gets whatever he wants.

Somehow I'm thinking ol' Kimmy is the one who gets what he wants. I'm interested in what he got out of this deal.

A buck rogers lunch box, two six shooter cap guns and a miniature pony and a mask of George W. Bush.

And an advance screening copy of Iron Man 2, and a handkerchief used (but not washed) by Jeanne-Claude Van Damme.

In other debate, yeah, Bill is the fucking man. At a time when everybody in the country is bitching about some damn thing, he heads over to close the deal his wife's been working hard on, sits down for two days of world-class class-act diplomacy, and comes home with two safe American women. Word from the swamp has it that it really helped that Pyongyang used to much prefer Clinton's moderate diplomacy to Bush's moralistic good-and-evil demonization. I say a cheer is in order.

[Kupek]

Uh, guys? Clinton probably didn't negotiate anything. The deal was made before he even landed - he wouldn't have gone if they weren't confident the two women would be released. The Koreans wanted a high-profile, influential American to come to - probably - save face. And you really can't get much more high-profile than Bill Clinton.

[Mental]

Works for me. The relative goodwill Clinton built by not being a hardass and a dick with North Korea helped a lot with that.

[Zeus]

Uh, guys? Clinton probably didn't negotiate anything. The deal was made before he even landed - he wouldn't have gone if they weren't confident the two women would be released. The Koreans wanted a high-profile, influential American to come to - probably - save face. And you really can't get much more high-profile than Bill Clinton.

Makes sense, it would be a part of his MO. He spent 8 years in office doing nothing tangible and just being a figurehead so this is just up his alley

[Mental]

And yet, somehow, the result is still positive. Benign neglect looks a whole lot better measured up against active incompetence.

[Mental]

Let me admit it openly: I am a big admirer of Clinton, and this even makes me more so, for a couple of reasons.

1) Clinton is the only President since Reagan to even make an attempt to pay down the Federal debt (which started mushrooming under Reagan's tax cuts and hasn't stopped since). He got it about five percent down before Bush took over, threw the entire thing into full reverse, and thereby wrecked the engine.

2) I had some of the better years of my life and experienced some of the best attitudes among my countrymen in the Clinton years. I really miss 1996, when I felt like my country actually showed love and took responsibility at home and abroad. It was far from perfect, but there was a sense of basic trust I had here in my country that hasn't been around since, and may not be around later.

There is always the tendency to romanticize one's better times, but there was a decent attitude in the air of my family and friends and acquaintances back then that I did not properly appreciate at the time and miss terribly today. A lot of people have gotten really nasty in this decade. There was good music on the radio then and it was still acceptable to sing about love instead of just booty and payola, maybe I'm just getting to be a bitter old man, but I felt like the radio reversed direction back in 1997 and hasn't changed course back since. I think in many cases the "good old days" are a myth, I definitely think the 1990s were far better than the 1980s, but this decade has felt a lot like we were going backwards and has made me appreciate the simple fact of a President who didn't start a lot of drama. Bill could actually reach across the aisle and work with a Republican Congress, he was just laid-back. For all that I appreciate Obama's ambition he's just not that laid-back an executive, and gosh darn it, maybe I actually *like* a certain world-leader-slacker attitude in governance. The don't-instigate-drama thing has a lot going for it. People get to let their guards down a bit, relax, enjoy the peace and relative quiet.

In this decade of unilateral my-dad-will-pay-for-it-ism, defiant prideful assholery, populist demagoguery by radio hosts of all sides, tawdry bitchy half-scripted reality show fights on TV that do nothing to represent a reprieve from the petulant immaturity of reality, massive government plans to create huge new government machines, ridiculous fears about our financial health, and generalized bipolar political mania, damn right I miss the 1990s. I'm sorry, but I didn't have fun this last decade. The Bush years were rough on me psychologically. A lot of the stuff I saw going on in the world was really hard to deal with and I feel like so much of it was so unnecessary and dangerously immature. I would probably literally whimper at the thought of having to go through it all again, so may God forgive me for enjoying just a bit of effective figureheadism that resulted in a very real expression of tangible human joy and release from fear as those women stepped off the plane. Yes, I'm okay with Clinton magically appearing to take credit for a tremendous amount behind the scenes while watching those girls get to sob with relief and hug their families. Straight up. God Forbid our news have a genuine and felt happy ending these days. Too many families have been dying lately.

[Mental]

In some ways, actually, one could argue that the best kind of Democratic President is one that doesn't do much of anything. He/she stops the GOP from blowing the budget on tax cuts for the rich and an obscene military engine, but doesn't declare unwinnable wars on certain sinkholes of poverty in the liberals' own favorite heroic ideological crusade into the quicksand. Much as I love the ideals of the Democrats, Reagan wasn't completely wrong when he said that Lyndon Johnson "declared war on poverty, and poverty won".

My friend (who is actually politically very brilliant in many ways and called the likely extent of the damage from the Bush reelection back in 2004) insists that the absolute best forms of government in America happen when the Executive and Legislative branches are controlled by different parties, with a Republican Congress and Democratic President being the preferred combination. Congress is fiscally conservative, but the President can veto any obscene and dangerous military spending, and in general (in his words) they paralyze each other. This turns out to be great for everyone else who can just get on with their lives without the government fucking with people. It is with some dismay that I have realized he is not completely wrong about this.

[Zeus]

Well, to me, Clinton represents everything I despise about politicians. He basically changed his political views to match popular opinion (it was so blatant that in the card game Illuminati from the early 90s - very humourous and was based on actual politics and political figures of the time - he would switch sides at will depending on popular opinion), he spoke in an extremely monotone, make-friends-with-everyone manner, and his popularity was based almost entirely on positive results which he had extremely slim or no influence towards achieving (such as the economic boom of the 90s).

Really, he did absolutely NOTHING during his terms in office other than get out his surfboard and ride the wave. That's not what you want in a politician.

[Flip]

Uh, guys? Clinton probably didn't negotiate anything. The deal was made before he even landed - he wouldn't have gone if they weren't confident the two women would be released. The Koreans wanted a high-profile, influential American to come to - probably - save face. And you really can't get much more high-profile than Bill Clinton.

I hate it when Kup is right sometimes.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_go_pr_ ... a_analysis

"Daniel Sneider, associate director of research at Stanford University's Shorenstein Asia-Pacific Research Center, said the journalists' release followed weeks of quiet negotiations between the State Department and the North Korean mission to the United Nations.

Clinton "didn't go to negotiate this, he went to reap the fruits of the negotiation," Sneider said."

[Lox]

Uh, guys? Clinton probably didn't negotiate anything. The deal was made before he even landed - he wouldn't have gone if they weren't confident the two women would be released. The Koreans wanted a high-profile, influential American to come to - probably - save face. And you really can't get much more high-profile than Bill Clinton.

I hate it when Kup is right sometimes.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_go_pr_ ... a_analysis

"Daniel Sneider, associate director of research at Stanford University's Shorenstein Asia-Pacific Research Center, said the journalists' release followed weeks of quiet negotiations between the State Department and the North Korean mission to the United Nations.

Clinton "didn't go to negotiate this, he went to reap the fruits of the negotiation," Sneider said."

Personally, I blame bovine for his misleading starting post!

[bovine]

There was zero inaccuracy in my summation of the situation.

[Mental]

Well, to me, Clinton represents everything I despise about politicians. He basically changed his political views to match popular opinion (it was so blatant that in the card game Illuminati from the early 90s - very humourous and was based on actual politics and political figures of the time - he would switch sides at will depending on popular opinion), he spoke in an extremely monotone, make-friends-with-everyone manner, and his popularity was based almost entirely on positive results which he had extremely slim or no influence towards achieving (such as the economic boom of the 90s).

Really, he did absolutely NOTHING during his terms in office other than get out his surfboard and ride the wave. That's not what you want in a politician.

Whereas Obama, a Democratic politician who epitomizes idealism and sticks to his plans no matter how badly they piss off the GOP, is currently whipping the tea-party crowd up to such a furious froth *I'm* afraid of getting shot. Say what you like about Clinton's marijuana-haze-reminiscent style of leadership, but it didn't rock the boat.

[Zeus]

Well, to me, Clinton represents everything I despise about politicians. He basically changed his political views to match popular opinion (it was so blatant that in the card game Illuminati from the early 90s - very humourous and was based on actual politics and political figures of the time - he would switch sides at will depending on popular opinion), he spoke in an extremely monotone, make-friends-with-everyone manner, and his popularity was based almost entirely on positive results which he had extremely slim or no influence towards achieving (such as the economic boom of the 90s).

Really, he did absolutely NOTHING during his terms in office other than get out his surfboard and ride the wave. That's not what you want in a politician.

Whereas Obama, a Democratic politician who epitomizes idealism and sticks to his plans no matter how badly they piss off the GOP, is currently whipping the tea-party crowd up to such a furious froth *I'm* afraid of getting shot. Say what you like about Clinton's marijuana-haze-reminiscent style of leadership, but it didn't rock the boat.

You're missing the point: he is insanely popular because of the state the country was in during his presidency (ie. it was a bull market the entire time; make no mistake about it, a president's popularity is largely based on the state of the economy at the time). The kicker: he did absolutely nothing to put the country in that state. He simply spent 8 years dodging bullets, doing absolutely zero and just letting the country run itself. His popularity was based on the work others did, just like this NK negotiation. That's his talent, deftly taking credit for others' work. That's what you want in your politician, someone who knows nothing, can do nothing, and relies on everyone else to make him look good?

You can't say jack shit about Obama for a little while longer. He's just getting started and he's got insane hurdles in his way from both parties. Let's see what he ends up doing with his presidency before you judge what he did well or poorly. He's in a helluva situation - something Clinton has never proven he can consider handling during his entire political career - and we'll see just what kind of a politician - and person - he really is.

[Mental]

I think Obama's doing fine. I just think Clinton did well.

He simply spent 8 years dodging bullets, doing absolutely zero and just letting the country run itself.

You ask how many businessmen prefer a Democratic President who lets the country run itself rather than having the government run everything. Just because we've had eight years of miserable, callous deregulation doesn't mean regulating like a hammer is necessarily the right option either. I support Obama with what he's doing and hope it's done well, but I still have good memories of the 1990s too, and I don't really buy into the theory that Clinton didn't do anything. You look at our national debt as a percentage of GDP, Clinton's second term is the only place it started dropping in the last thirty years, and I personally think that's great. Compare and contrast with Bush, George W.

[SineSwiper]

I support Obama with what he's doing and hope it's done well, but I still have good memories of the 1990s too, and I don't really buy into the theory that Clinton didn't do anything. You look at our national debt as a percentage of GDP, Clinton's second term is the only place it started dropping in the last thirty years, and I personally think that's great. Compare and contrast with Bush, George W.

I agree with Zeus in that part of that windfall was Bush Sr's credit. He had to fix the mess that his ex-boss left.