Flip wrote:The article i read said the phillies got the short end of the stick, sort of:
"The Phillies are not demonstrably better after the three-way trade that netted them Halladay, sent their erstwhile ace Cliff Lee(notes) to Seattle and brought a cache of young, inexpensive players to Toronto. The Phillies have more security – at least, as much as a 32-year-old with a history of arm trouble can provide – with Halladay reportedly primed to sign a $60 million contract extension through the 2013 season. And they didn’t need to sacrifice all the fruits of their farm system, which general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. helped build and continues to protect.
Phillies pitcher Cliff Lee had a 3.22 ERA and 181 strikeouts in 2009.
Yet because the Phillies could have conceivably done this without sacrificing Lee – they have enough prospects, and Lee is a bargain next year at $9 million – the trade resonates as unsatisfying. The Phillies are still the class of the National League. They’re just not the best team in baseball, a stake they could have claimed with Halladay and Lee together atop their rotation."
I guess they couldnt have made the move any way else, but they replaced their ace with an ace and a bunch of coveted prospects. Really how much better off are they?
EDIT article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=j ... &type=lgns
Whoever wrote that article has no idea what he's talking about. Lee had one good year (2008) and a good half year last year with the Phillies. Negotiations broke down with him and they're gonna lose him after next year for nothing. So, instead of getting just a couple of compensatory picks, they give up some picks to get the best pitcher in the game today who's only 32. And they trade Lee and get 3 "lesser" but pretty solid prospects in return. And it's not like they're getting a 40-year old here, the man is in his prime.
History of arm trouble? Why, 'cause he broke his fibula a few years back, had an appendectimy a few years ago, and had a forearm strain two yeas ago? This guy can't be serious. Look at the stats. Since 2002, the year before he won the Cy and his 'history of arm troubles began', Halladay is leading all of baseball in wins, innings pitched, winning percentage, and shutouts and is second in ERA. This isn't in the American league, this is in all of baseball. Take Sabathia out of the equation and Halladay would have more complete games that every other TEAM in baseball the last couple of years. If he had a 'history of arm trouble', he wouldn't have stats like that. Horrible journalism, at least know your facts.
So on top of having the best stats of all pitchers over the last 8 years, the guy also has the ability to make others around him that much better. He has the best work ethic in the game and it rubs off on everyone. Remember when A.J. Burnett was in the NL and was a .500 pitcher? Well, it was his closeness to Halladay that finally allowed him to break his inconsistency and he's had excellent years the last couple (one with Toronto, one with New York). Toronto has had some pretty good young pitchers come up and every one of them to a man talks about how watching Halladay from spring training on affected them in a positive way.
And if you think the money is an issue, don't forget that we're talking about a guy who's always in the top 3 or 4 in Cy Young voting every freakin' year. A few superstars are worth that coin and Halladay certainly is one of them. Did you know that over the last few years he also leads all of baseball with fewest pitches per inning? He pitches to contact as opposed to trying to get the strikeout even though he has one of the best curveballs and cutters in the game. Get used to watching this guy pitch 95-pitch, complete game shutouts. He'll get about 4 or 5 of those easy if he's able to face a pitcher 3 times a game. And what happens when teams don't swing and try to be patient? He racks up the strikeouts like he did this year (I think he was 4th or something in the AL). And this is a man who doesn't try for it like Lincecum does, he'd rather get a groundball then a K. What's even more amazing is the fact that even when guys are familiar with him they still can't figure him out. He's that damned good.
We'll talk again in August after you've watched this guy pitch for most of the season, then you can try to convince me that Lee's anywhere close to Halladay's ability. You guys have no idea what you're getting, not yet. Don't forget, those stats he's gotten over the last 7 years comes with about 25% of his starts coming against the AL East with New York and Boston who have always had very strong lineups 1 through 9. And it's not like Tampa hasn't had a strong lineup the last few years either. Even Baltimore can hit, they're issue is pitching. I can't wait to see him absolutely demolish NL lineups. I will be absolutely shocked if he isn't 1st or 2nd in Cy Young voting in the NL this year.
Simply put, you never trade someone like Halladay unless you have to. And they're doing it for him since he's been so loyal for so long to the organization. They would easily have paid him $20M a year if he wanted to stay, no question
