Metroid: Other M and Mario Galaxy 2 to release this spring

[Julius Seeker]

In Australia at least It looks like Metroid: Other M, and Mario Galaxy 2 are both going to be summer titles. Nintendo announced that they will be out in June and August this year; likely an announcement will come along shortly for a similar schedule here. That neither of them will be the big Christmas title. They also announced the Black Wii and the DSi XL for March and April respectively; as well as Monster Hunter Tri having the game only release, and the bundle with the classic controller+



This leads me to wonder what the big Christmas title will be. There are still mists around the upcoming Zelda release. There is also Xenoblade, which is rumored to take place at the beginning of the Universe and involves a vertical world (Faxanadu?): as is usual with Nintendo RPGs, no random encounters, no level grinding, and I would guess that they would be using a more traditional RPG battle system rather than something similar to Xenosaga's "advanced" battle systems (Less strategy than a typical RPG, but with more things you'd have to do). Other than that, it is blind speculation.

[SineSwiper]

From the looks of the controller, somebody's trying to imitate Sony and Microsoft.

[Julius Seeker]

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on why you think this? =)

[Julius Seeker]

Correction, Spring Games list:
Monster Hunter Tri - April (free online)
Mario Galaxy 2 - May
Sin and Punishment 2 - June
Metroid Other M - June


Other announcements:
Dragon Quest 9 - Published by Nintendo
Nintendo broke the US software sales record in the US for a single system (Wii) for the month of December.

[Shrinweck]

From the looks of the controller, somebody's trying to imitate Sony and Microsoft.

How would they make a controller otherwise? Controllers have basically all looked the same since after the N64. I think after the Wii remote they're allowed some conformist leeway.

[Kupek]

It's just an updated version of the classic controller:



The classic controller is used for GameCube games (which the Wii can play natively) and can be used for the Virtual Console games, which has titles from NES, Master System, Turbografix 16, SNES, Genesis and N64. Being a generic controller is a functional requirement.

[Shrinweck]

*Elitist keyboard and mouse comment here*

[Zeus]

From the looks of the controller, somebody's trying to imitate Sony and Microsoft.

By tossing in grips? The GC and N64 controllers didn't have grips?

[SineSwiper]

N64:


GameCube:


New Wii controller:


So, Nintendo spends three generations dicking around with game controllers, and after their "innovation", they end up with the same design as the PS3 and 360?

Meanwhile, both Sony and Microsoft has more or less had the same controller with some small tweaks. Granted, Sony invented the whole analog stick, but that was still for PSX. And Xbox had its huge controller problem (as in it was very huge), but it was fixed that year, unlike N64's piece of shit controller.

(Frankly, I think the 360 still wins out, since Sony's D-pad has always sucked and should be moved to the bottom, like the 360's.)

But, overall, Sony had the right idea from the beginning. Best analog stick, best placement of buttons, best shoulder buttons. Microsoft just took their controller and improved on it a bit, while Nintendo learned kicking and screaming how to make a controller. Actually, I didn't have too many problems with the GameCube controller, but just look at how different that one is compared to what they have now. (And did I mention that the N64 controller sucks balls?)

[Lox]

I thought the N64 controller had analog before the PS1 introduced DualShock.

[SineSwiper]

I thought the N64 controller had analog before the PS1 introduced DualShock.

True, but N64's analog was just horrid. "Yay! Let's make the analog stick too long and too small on the pad. And, if that isn't horrible enough, we'll put the analog stick in the CENTER of the pad!" Nintendo invented 3D genres for the console, but it wasn't like they were good at that, either. When PSX branched into that category, the offerings didn't feel like "first generation" stuff and were more enjoyable.

Innovation is nice and all, but remember that the first generation is going to have all of the bugs and annoyances to it. Nintendo and Apple are both companies that suffer that problem, but people crave that "new toy feel" regardless.

[Kupek]

Sine, you're taking a strange stance. All modern console controllers are descendants of the NES controller. It set the basic template of directional pad on the left, buttons on the right. The SNES controller was the first pad with shoulder buttons. The N64 controller was the first modern pad with an analog stick. And the Wii remote was the first modern controller with motion tracking.

The controller you're talking about is not the new Wii controller. It's the new classic controller made for playing old games. It would be strange if it didn't resemble the PS3 or 360 controller, just as it would be strange if you didn't look like your cousins.

http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/

[SineSwiper]

Yeah, but just look at how much different the N64 and GameCube controllers are. It's like they had the SNES controller and went off in left field, and then came back to a more stable design.

[Zeus]

The Classic Controller Plus is basically a GC controller with a few minor changes. It has nothing to do with the 360 or PS3 controller.

The N64 controller was an excellent controller, you just didn't like it. It features arguably the most sensitive stick of any controller to date and the fact that it allowed for multiple figurations was just their way of not making you stretch your thumb to use the stick and/or directional pad. Since you only used it very rarely, it really wasn't an issue. Alas, people preferred to stretch to they changed it for the GC controller.

Mario 64 was so far ahead of its time it took another Nintendo 3D game (Ocarina) to beat it in terms of 3D navigation. Again, you don't have to like it but you do have to appreciate it. I very much disliked FF7 but I will never deny its importance in greatly expanding the RPG genre.

FYI: the 360 controller is actually a descendant of the DC controller and the PS3 controller is a descendant of the SNES controller. The fact that the three controllers end up generally the same is natural since all three companies are taking notes of player preferences each generation and making tweaks along the way. But if you look back, it's Nintendo who tries stuff then the others who crib it.

Sony's analog stick is best? We'll have to severely disagree there. The PS3 controller is familiar (we've been using it for 3 generations now) but is clearly behind the times. I certainly feel that the 360 controller's stick is a lot more comfortable and the GCs was actually more responsive.

[SineSwiper]

The Classic Controller Plus is basically a GC controller with a few minor changes. It has nothing to do with the 360 or PS3 controller.

Bullshit. Look at the pictures. The button placement was weird with the GC, and it looks like they threw out the trigger lock buttons on the new Wii controller. Even the molding is different with the placement of the D-pad and C-stick.

On the other hand, it looks almost identical to the PS3 controller.

The N64 controller was an excellent controller, you just didn't like it. It features arguably the most sensitive stick of any controller to date and the fact that it allowed for multiple figurations was just their way of not making you stretch your thumb to use the stick and/or directional pad.

Didn't make you stretch? The damn halfstick was so long that it was extremely awkward to control with your thumb (and yes, I was gripping it from the center). I have small hands, and I can't imagine a kid trying to wield this thing.

And if it was the best analog stick, why did they change it?

But if you look back, it's Nintendo who tries stuff then the others who crib it.

It's Nintendo who tries stuff and then fails. Nintendo has been trying to play catch-up with their rivals on the controller for years now. Yes, the PS3 is a cousin of the SNES controller. If Nintendo did that themselves, they would have had a better chance at not being only second place in the last two console battles.

Again, they re-invent a controller for the N64. Then they try to re-invent another controller for the GameCube that is similar to the other guys. Finally, they give up and make a controller that is EXACTLY like the other guys.

Sony's analog stick is best? We'll have to severely disagree there. The PS3 controller is familiar (we've been using it for 3 generations now) but is clearly behind the times. I certainly feel that the 360 controller's stick is a lot more comfortable and the GCs was actually more responsive.

Well, let me rephrase that. The PSX controller was the best analog controller of its generation, but Sony has been lazy with the design. I actually hadn't seen a PS3 controller in a while, and I was quite shocked that the damn thing hasn't changed any.

Now, the 360 controller is definitely the best analog controller, nay, best controller in the market. The concave form for the analog makes it really easy to control. It has the best D-Pad of any controller. They combined both shoulder and trigger buttons at the top. The buttons are very responsive. It's very ergonomically designed.

[RentCavalier]

That new controller looks exactly like the bastard offspring of a Gamecube Controller and the Classic Controller. The only reason you think it looks like the PS3 controller is because it is black.

It looks nothing lik the 360 controller. Furthermore, why are you ragging on Nintendo? It's like they can't please anybody. First they "sell out" by making lite Casual games and gimmicky motion sensors (and in the process innovate everything). Now they improve upon an existing controller design and you rag on them because it superficially resembles another controller.

Why is this a big deal? Seriously, it's a CONTROLLER. You wanna get mad at Nintendo, yell at them for remaking the exact same game generation after generation, or that they don't support third-party developers or that the Wii vastly underuses its graphics engine.

You're nitpicking. Stop it.

[Lox]

I'm surprised you think the d-pad is the best on the 360. I prefer the 360 controller overall, but the d-pad is awful. It's not responsive and I've always had issues getting it to recognize the correct direction I pressed.

[Zeus]

The D-pad sucks enormous donkey cock on the 360 controller. Play a round of SSFIV then come back and tell me it's good

[M'k'n'zy]

360 dpad is HORRIBLE

[Eric]

Good god man, you think the X-Box D-Pad is good? Your bias is showing.

[SineSwiper]

That new controller looks exactly like the bastard offspring of a Gamecube Controller and the Classic Controller. The only reason you think it looks like the PS3 controller is because it is black.

It looks nothing lik the 360 controller. Furthermore, why are you ragging on Nintendo? It's like they can't please anybody. First they "sell out" by making lite Casual games and gimmicky motion sensors (and in the process innovate everything). Now they improve upon an existing controller design and you rag on them because it superficially resembles another controller.

Fucking christ. It's like I'm talking to a bunch of fucking stupid morons that argues with me that the sky is blue. One more fucking time:


* Four buttons in a diamond formation - CHECK!
* Four shoulder buttons, two on the left, two on the right - CHECK!
* D-Pad on the upper left side - CHECK!
* Two round analog sticks on the lower left and right sides - CHECK!
* Three buttons in the middle - CHECK!
* Handlebars on the lower-left and right side - CHECK!
* Long oval shape on main part of controller - CHECK!



* Four buttons in a diamond formation - NO! GC's in a strange pattern and shapes
* Four shoulder buttons, two on the left, two on the right - NO! Three buttons, two of them triggers
* D-Pad on the upper left side - NO! D-Pad on lower-left
* Two round analog sticks on the lower left and right sides - NO! Main analog stick on upper left
* Three buttons in the middle - NO!
* Handlebars on the lower-left and right side - CHECK!
* Long oval shape on main part of controller - NO! Has this bizarre shape at the bottom for its d-pad/analog

Yes, the 360 controller has some differences, but the new Wii controller is closer to a 360 controller than a GameCube or N64 one. Microsoft was just smart enough to make their controller better, rather than the stagnant PS3 one.

Now, we better be crystal motherfucking CLEAR here. I do NOT want to argue on Point A for hours on end when we should be talking about Point K by now!

motherfucking piece of shit idots... like I'm arguing with ten seekers here...

[Oracle]

Sine, but those screenshots aren't representing the real-world FEEL of the controllers. They feel nothing the same.

Every point you have made is invalid. I like Nintendo. Why do you hate Nintendo?

[RentCavalier]

That new controller looks exactly like the bastard offspring of a Gamecube Controller and the Classic Controller. The only reason you think it looks like the PS3 controller is because it is black.

It looks nothing lik the 360 controller. Furthermore, why are you ragging on Nintendo? It's like they can't please anybody. First they "sell out" by making lite Casual games and gimmicky motion sensors (and in the process innovate everything). Now they improve upon an existing controller design and you rag on them because it superficially resembles another controller.

Fucking christ. It's like I'm talking to a bunch of fucking stupid morons that argues with me that the sky is blue. One more fucking time:


* Four buttons in a diamond formation - CHECK!
* Four shoulder buttons, two on the left, two on the right - CHECK!
* D-Pad on the upper left side - CHECK!
* Two round analog sticks on the lower left and right sides - CHECK!
* Three buttons in the middle - CHECK!
* Handlebars on the lower-left and right side - CHECK!
* Long oval shape on main part of controller - CHECK!



* Four buttons in a diamond formation - NO! GC's in a strange pattern and shapes
* Four shoulder buttons, two on the left, two on the right - NO! Three buttons, two of them triggers
* D-Pad on the upper left side - NO! D-Pad on lower-left
* Two round analog sticks on the lower left and right sides - NO! Main analog stick on upper left
* Three buttons in the middle - NO!
* Handlebars on the lower-left and right side - CHECK!
* Long oval shape on main part of controller - NO! Has this bizarre shape at the bottom for its d-pad/analog

Yes, the 360 controller has some differences, but the new Wii controller is closer to a 360 controller than a GameCube or N64 one. Microsoft was just smart enough to make their controller better, rather than the stagnant PS3 one.

Now, we better be crystal motherfucking CLEAR here. I do NOT want to argue on Point A for hours on end when we should be talking about Point K by now!

motherfucking piece of shit idots... like I'm arguing with ten seekers here...

So, it's an IMPROVEMENT over the Gamecube controller. Fantastic.

Also, you should put up a picture of the original NES controller or, better yet, the SNES controller. Put it next to the Classic Controller. Take a look. Then STFU.

[Shrinweck]

Taking an argument about controllers way too seriously ITT.

[bovine]

Oh, can I call everyone stupid too?

You're all stupid. It's more like dreamcast controller form with analog/button placement of a ps2/ps3 controller.

[Blotus]

Worst thread of the year.

IDIOTS.

[Eric]

This is pretty comical. Console Wars down to the controllers.

[SineSwiper]

Shit, I don't even care about the subject of the argument, anymore. I just tired of people giving me the internet equivalent of blank stares when I'm trying to point out a simple thing that everybody should see.

[Eric]

Shit, I don't even care about the subject of the argument, anymore. I just tired of people giving me the internet equivalent of blank stares when I'm trying to point out a simple thing that everybody should see.

Well obviously if everyone can't see it, it's not a simple thing that everybody can see!

[Shrinweck]

Sooo how 'bout those Metroid and Mario games?

Ms... Uh They start with them.

[Julius Seeker]

Hahaha, I knew this would be interesting. Sine, you are one twisted motherfucker =P

Let me guess, it was you who actually came up with the gay fish joke too?

The virtual console is a platform which allows users to download and play games from all of Nintendo's past home consoles, plus a number of other systems. Most of the games are incompatable with the Wii remote interface. The classic controller is an attachment to the Wii remote designed to play Virtual Console games. The design is based off of the SNES controller because it is a REQUIREMENT to play SNES games. Analog sticks were added because it was a simple solution to satisfy the REQUIREMENTS for N64 games.

By the way: d-pads, analog sticks, 4 face buttons, shoulder buttons, force feedback, and motion control interfaces were all trends created by Nintendo. Microsoft and Sony are the actual immitators. 

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Wow. I can remember arguing with Sine about the N64 controller when the N64 was current-gen.

We are oooooold.

[RentCavalier]

Wow. I can remember arguing with Sine about the N64 controller when the N64 was current-gen.

We are oooooold.

LOL you guys are funny.

But in terms of the new Metroid, it looks sweet, but I am not sure I like the new direction the series is going in. I mean...cutscenes? Dialogue? Samus talking? And it is looking more Star Warsy than ever--there are soldiers and admirals and love interests...

Metroid is a game about being LOST in a CAVE. Every Metroid game has succeeded because of this. Because you are trapped or set upon a harsh, alien, and deeply unsettling landscape, forced to navigate swarms of natural and unnatural threats, and survive on the skin of your teeth while gathering any and all usable equipment to augment yourself. And this entire time, you are ALONE. Completely, utterly alone. There's no voice in your ear, no radio, no one else. The only other characters are corpses, rumors, or enemies. The isolation of Metroid is WHY the "collect-a-thon" gameplay works. It's the most defining aspect of the series, especially in the Prime games.

I'm just not sure I like them moving away from that.

[M'k'n'zy]

Wow. I can remember arguing with Sine about the N64 controller when the N64 was current-gen.

We are oooooold.

LOL you guys are funny.

But in terms of the new Metroid, it looks sweet, but I am not sure I like the new direction the series is going in. I mean...cutscenes? Dialogue? Samus talking? And it is looking more Star Warsy than ever--there are soldiers and admirals and love interests...

Metroid is a game about being LOST in a CAVE. Every Metroid game has succeeded because of this. Because you are trapped or set upon a harsh, alien, and deeply unsettling landscape, forced to navigate swarms of natural and unnatural threats, and survive on the skin of your teeth while gathering any and all usable equipment to augment yourself. And this entire time, you are ALONE. Completely, utterly alone. There's no voice in your ear, no radio, no one else. The only other characters are corpses, rumors, or enemies. The isolation of Metroid is WHY the "collect-a-thon" gameplay works. It's the most defining aspect of the series, especially in the Prime games.

I'm just not sure I like them moving away from that.

Actually that's not entirely true. In Metroid Fusion you have your ship's AI that kinda works with you and against you throughout the game, as well as times when they put up dialouge of Samus thinking to herself. And Fusion was great.

[Julius Seeker]

I really like the new changes and will buy this game (and I don't think it is like star wars at all, probably more like star trek with ancient chozo tech). It was good to take this new approach over another FPS version. The FPS genre is too limited for games like Metroid:
* The game felt like Samus had tunnel vision, which probably made sense from her POV, but frustrating to the player just like driving games from the first person camera.
* The action felt too slow; despite being MUCH better graphically, it was less interesting.
* Samus should be seen on the screen; There is a loss of connection with her character in the first person view, without seeing the character - The game felt like it starred a blaster, and it was killing enemies and scanning ruins on the side.
* Jumping just feels wrong in prime - I could never get used to it because I couldn't ever see where my feet landed.

[RentCavalier]

I really like the new changes and will buy this game (and I don't think it is like star wars at all, probably more like star trek with ancient chozo tech). It was good to take this new approach over another FPS version. The FPS genre is too limited for games like Metroid:
* The game felt like Samus had tunnel vision, which probably made sense from her POV, but frustrating to the player just like driving games from the first person camera.
* The action felt too slow; despite being MUCH better graphically, it was less interesting.
* Samus should be seen on the screen; There is a loss of connection with her character in the first person view, without seeing the character - The game felt like it starred a blaster, and it was killing enemies and scanning ruins on the side.
* Jumping just feels wrong in prime - I could never get used to it because I couldn't ever see where my feet landed.

See, I found none of those to be problems. In fact, the platforming was REALLY well done considering that it WAS a First Person game. They managed to put in all the Metroid elements AND refine battling AND keep it all fresh and full of variety. I was really impressed and loved the First-Person POV.

And, in response to Fusion, yeah, it had the briefings, and I didn't like them that much. They weren't bad, but I want to EXPLORE in Metroid, not get sent on fetch quests by a computer. And even still, the plot was still mostly in the background, especially after the midpoint of the game. This game looks really story-driven, which I think is a bad direction to take.

[SineSwiper]

I tend to agree. I don't know why, but when you feel isolated in the game, it just makes it a better game. Games like Bioshock, System Shock 2, Doom, and Fallout 3 have that kind of feel, but it's more like a "everybody is out to get me" type isolation. For that manner, I think it's a common property of FPSs that just works as a plot element.

In that respect, I thought Metroid 2 was the best of the three. The "dark side" in MP2 gave you even more of that feeling of uneasy isolation, since even the air was against you.

I haven't even finished Metroid Prime 3, and I just now realized that's probably why.

I do disagree about FPS not being an appropriate genre for Metroid. The balance between shooter and adventure game gave people a practically new genre. No other game achieved that kind of balance. I think games like Deux Ex and System Shock 2 came close, but leaned more towards the RPG angle, rather than adventure. I don't know any other series that could pull it off besides Castlevania, though it's not typically in the realm of shooters.

[Julius Seeker]

The isolation factor is probably the core reason why I found it difficult to get into Metroid; my other reasons are fairly minor compared to that. The isolation and the fact that Metroid is a game that requires lots of playtime to get through each section. There are some realms of isolation I can enjoy (ie. there is a game called Endless Ocean that I really enjoy playing occasionally on a calm day like a Sunday morning - the game is non-violent though; so it is a different sort of experience).