Final Fantasy 13 out now

[Shrinweck]

Unless you're doing something incorrect and making mistakes, I'm sorry, but I don't understand your issues. The battle system does get deeper after 8 hours but if you can't see how it will, then you're probably not going to have it grow on you. Don't get me wrong, the party pairings in the beginning (and hell I'm nearly 14 hours in and from what I'm told ten hours or so from party customization) are difficult to have fun with at first but they're meant to get you used to the different combos of what is possible with the different roles. The story is definitely not the best but horribly written? Disjointed? It's told in a way where it's meant to be told in flash backs and as you play. I honestly think it's done pretty well and in terms of writing in games (especially games that claim to be RPGs) I have high standards. I am nowhere near a Final Fantasy fan boy, either. I've only played seven and seen the last hour of ten.

There are definitely moments of repetition. But to the point where it isn't a good game? Give us some examples, please. Maybe it just isn't for you? Eight hours in I did dislike every character but Lightning, though...

Edit: The music... okay not bad, but, yeah compared to most games where it's always going and a semi-major part of what's going on? Ugh. Tolerable. I hate when music is obviously trying to manipulate my emotions. The 'sad time' music I've heard so far is so generic in its manipulation that getting annoyed just seems like a waste. And the Japanese usually own that shit with me.

[Julius Seeker]

I am way past 8 hours and haven't come across any story that is disjointed, or a part where all the characters are emo (or any of them really, unless there is some new definition of emo which I am not aware of). I think Zeus is just stringing together opinions of 13 year old whiney boneheads from other forums, and is not actually playing the game. I recall him whining about how he tragically lost faith in the series....

Any way, what IS an emo kid is someone sitting at home moping about how he tragically lost faith in a videogame company because if a game they released 13 years ago; wearing thick rimmed glasses and crying to Weezer and other such punk pop bands. Oh wait! Smell the irony? =P


Anyway, I am liking the game so far. Vanille, Sahz, and Snow are my favourite characters. My favourite location so far is the Nature Reserve. Three things I wish about the game: a snapshot system like in crystal bearers; junctioning, linking the sphere grids to something like GF's in FF8 so they can be transferee between characters (I hate leveling characters I won't be using later; FF8 was the only RPG which got around that); and more civilian populated areas.


Spoiler for those not past Chapter 7 section 8:

Spoiler: show

Looks like Pulse really is "the land down under" =P

[Zeus]

Some spoilers....maybe. More vague references or mention of something without details

Shrin, since you actually asked an honestly question and didn't immediately resort to insults like some others here, these are my issues:

- the battle system is a neat idea, kind of a take on the old FF4 (you were still in diapers when I beat that one back in '92 :-) with a little bit of Xenogears tossed in. However, and I'm fighting the Bulbasaur right now (that should alleviate any spoiler concerns) so I'm not in the beginning of the game or anything, it all ends up being a hit them hard in the beginning, magic them for a bit with one characters while the other keeps hitting them, stagger them then waste away. Other than the specialized summon fights, any enemy you come across that you can't beat just by hitting X repeatedly follows this EXACT pattern. Then on occasion you run into an enemy that hits you so hard (like Odin or the Bulbasaur) it can kill you in one shot or a group of very strong enemies so you have to toss healing magic every once in a while (A LOT if you have the useless Hope in your group). It's honestly kinda boring with some bewilderment and frustration at those couple of fights that are light years ahead in terms of difficulty. It's highly unbalanced that way as well.

- going a little more on the battle system, it's kinda like playing Bejeweled or Texas Hold 'Em poker. It has the illusion of strategy but is equally or more so about luck. 'Cause you can't actually control the other characters and what they do, you have to pray they do the right thing. You know how many times I had a healing spell cast on someone who had 400HP instead of the one with 70 just to have that character go down the very next enemy attack? You know how irritating that is during one of those fights which are light years ahead in terms of difficulty and you're stuck with only two characters and one is as useless as a tit on a bull? (I'll leave it up to you to guess which character that is). Also, why do I have to switch paradigms to access magic or healing? It's like they wanted to put it in just to keep you active during the battle rather than having real strategy. Putting in unnecessary, pervasive limitations on your characters abilities is not a good method if increasing strategy in a battle system. And having to play a game for 25 hours before you have full control of the game mechanics is fucking retarded. 5 or 6 hours is bad enough, the 12 hours or so it took for the Element system in Chrono Cross to finally develop was insane too. But at least there was good characters and a great storyline there to keep me going.

- I quite honestly strongly despise all of the characters 'cause they're very stereotypical, 2D, and fucking irritating characters. Snow? Stereotypical whiny, irresponsible, rebellious fuck who wears a trenchcoat and toque in the summer for whom love has driven to an ultimate sense of responsibility and sacrifice. Vanille? A girl who dresses and acts like a 12 year-old slut and has no cares at all when her world is crumbling down around her and has an accent just because? She's easily the most irritating character of all. Hope? Angst-filled child forcing himself to not be a pussy by channeling his anger at Snow for no reason whatsoever (remember, Nora volunteered). He needs a good smackdown to shut his hole. Sazh? I call him Token for a reason, he's only in there for the same reason Barret was in FF7. He's not nearly as irritating and the one I can tolerate the most (but that doesn't make him good). Plus he's got the chocobo which is cute and gives him some brownie points. Lightning and Serah? Screams stereotype in every way imaginable (older, responsible, hardened sister with innocent, happy-go-lucky younger sister thrown into a tragic situation). Lightning is always scowling and everything that comes out of her mouth is tough-love or a version of "fuck you, it's my way or the highway". I just haven't been able to not only like any of the characters but not hate them. It's a big deal in an RPG, you're with these characters for 30+ hours.

- here's a simple question: where's the enemy? All good stories need a villain and other than The Sanctum (a currently faceless group) or a couple of army people that we know absolutely nothing about and have hardly had any screen time, all we're fighting right now is faceless characters or creatures. You never played FF6, did you? You know why Kefka was the best villain ever? That piece of shit was constantly around, pounding on you then running away and taunting you throughout the game. You hated his guts...a lot (doesn't that make a good villain?). Even Sephiroth in the first 10 hours or so of FF7 was always around, killed Aeris (if you don't know that by now....), and was constantly just one step ahead of you (it was when he disappeared in the second half of the game when that game lost focus and started to suck). Even in Mass Effect you're chasing after Saren right off the bat, you know he's your main enemy. I don't even know what my Focus is yet (heh)

- just FYI: I love flashbacks, I think they're a wonderful way to tell a story when they're used well. And they are the best part of the FF13 storyline (that's not sayin' much, though). But what I say about the story being disjointed is that they're just tossing a shitton of names and terms without delving into any of them aside from a l'Cie's Focus. What exactly is a fal'Cie? Where did the Pulse l'Cie come from? How did it get to Bodham? Other than a class society type thing, why is there such a difference and hatred between Cocoon and Pulse? What reason is there for turning humans into l'Cies? It just seems that they're more interested in volume vs depth. I'm OK with that for a while but I'm now 8 hours in, throw me a bone here.

- the music quite honestly sounds like musak with some 80s porn music tossed in. There has yet been a single, memorable song in any way. Worse, you actually notice how laughably bad it is and how it doesn't fit the story or setting at all. I'm not expecting everyone to be Uematsu, there's only a few of those around, but good music should either be memorable or blend into the game. This does the exactly opposite.

Before some of the people here who remember my endless bitching about FF7 bring it up, I had absolutely zero expectations or pre-conceived notions of this game going in. I hadn't played a FF game since FF9 (10 years ago now), never read anything about this game (the only thing I saw was the trailer at my bud's EB), and just wanted to play it and see what it was all about. It had been so long I just wanted to play another FF game. I basically wanted to like it. That's why I'm so shocked, I'm amazed on how bad it is. I was wrong earlier, it has one redeeming feature, it's a gorgeous game. Only MGS4 looks better in this generation. But we're talking about a 40+ hour RPG, that just ain't enough. And there's nothing else about this game I'm enjoying right now. I'm only going on in hopes it gets better because I want to like. I have a shred of hope left but that's fading quickly.

[RentCavalier]

Well, they sort of tell you all of those things. You should read the datalogs. They're very short and SO SO helpful. But the instruction manual also tells you.

[Shrinweck]

Addressing your issues:
Enemies that hit you really hard and you find yourself dying very quickly tend to require some strategy. Luckily all you have to do is use Libra and it pretty much tells you what to do or at the very least changes your auto battle such that you and your teammates are using the best skills possible. A good example is with Odin where it (minor spoiler ahead) tells you that he deals lightning damage and the game gives you lightning resistance rings out the ass up until that point. It doesn't make it much easier but it helps you with what you need to do. Later the normal encounters get more involved, as well and you find yourself switching paradigms 2+ times even in the easier fights. A few are still just using auto, though. That never really goes away completely 15 hours in at least.

Vanille gets vastly more interesting. She's far from my favorite, but I like her, now. Most of your issues with the characters are later addressed and they grow from it. Hope is still a bit of a douche, though. I've found it's a common anime technique where characters are insufferably horrible until *blank* happens to them and you find out why and then they change from it.

Not knowing your focus is... part of the story. Not knowing who exactly your enemy is works because the characters don't know who it really is either, and the ones that feel like they do are being short sighted.

And, yeah, if you're having issues with putting together the story and terms you should really check out the datalog. A great deal of the first part of the thread was us praising it for not holding our hands and wasting 20+ minutes of our time explaining all that mumbo jumbo to us.

[Eric]

Ah hahaha, another corner of the internet where people are split on the game. ^_^

[Zeus]

Well, they sort of tell you all of those things. You should read the datalogs. They're very short and SO SO helpful. But the instruction manual also tells you.

Not to sound like an ass, but why should I? These are things you should do if you want to delve deeper into the world created by the game, not to understand what is going on. They're extras, not essentials. Bioshock and Batman did it best with their audio diaries and interview tapes, respectively (don't give them "yeah, but they're not RPGs" argument; we're talking about a method of telling a story here). I wanted to know more about Rapture and the background stories of Ryan, Atlas, Lamb, and Tenenbaum, so I went hunting for the audio tapes. I loved the history of characters and Arkham Asylum the interview tapes gave, so I hunted them all down. But if I didn't get them, it's not like I didn't know what was going on, who the characters were, or what their motivation was in either of those games.

If that's what Square's doing, forcing you to read the manual or extra dialogue crap to properly understand the story, it's a horrible, horrible idea.

[Don]

Well, they sort of tell you all of those things. You should read the datalogs. They're very short and SO SO helpful. But the instruction manual also tells you.

Not to sound like an ass, but why should I? These are things you should do if you want to delve deeper into the world created by the game, not to understand what is going on. They're extras, not essentials. Bioshock and Batman did it best with their audio diaries and interview tapes, respectively (don't give them "yeah, but they're not RPGs" argument; we're talking about a method of telling a story here). I wanted to know more about Rapture and the background stories of Ryan, Atlas, Lamb, and Tenenbaum, so I went hunting for the audio tapes. I loved the history of characters and Arkham Asylum the interview tapes gave, so I hunted them all down. But if I didn't get them, it's not like I didn't know what was going on, who the characters were, or what their motivation was in either of those games.

If that's what Square's doing, forcing you to read the manual or extra dialogue crap to properly understand the story, it's a horrible, horrible idea.

Whoa, Zeus and I agree on something!

I have no problem with having additional extra information but it is stupid to expect you to go read somewhere else just to understand what's happening in the game.

[Zeus]

Addressing your issues:
Enemies that hit you really hard and you find yourself dying very quickly tend to require some strategy. Luckily all you have to do is use Libra and it pretty much tells you what to do or at the very least changes your auto battle such that you and your teammates are using the best skills possible. A good example is with Odin where it (minor spoiler ahead) tells you that he deals lightning damage and the game gives you lightning resistance rings out the ass up until that point. It doesn't make it much easier but it helps you with what you need to do. Later the normal encounters get more involved, as well and you find yourself switching paradigms 2+ times even in the easier fights. A few are still just using auto, though. That never really goes away completely 15 hours in at least.

Vanille gets vastly more interesting. She's far from my favorite, but I like her, now. Most of your issues with the characters are later addressed and they grow from it. Hope is still a bit of a douche, though. I've found it's a common anime technique where characters are insufferably horrible until *blank* happens to them and you find out why and then they change from it.

Not knowing your focus is... part of the story. Not knowing who exactly your enemy is works because the characters don't know who it really is either, and the ones that feel like they do are being short sighted.

And, yeah, if you're having issues with putting together the story and terms you should really check out the datalog. A great deal of the first part of the thread was us praising it for not holding our hands and wasting 20+ minutes of our time explaining all that mumbo jumbo to us.

Shrin, give me some credit. I've been playing RPGs longer than you've been alive (sadly, that's not an exaggeration; I got Dragon Warrior in '88 or '89, whenever they had that Nintendo Power giveaway). The battle system ain't that complex, really, it's just flashy. So it's not like I never knew what to do or I've ever died other than by sheer indifference aside from the Odin and Baulbasaur fights. When I had trouble with the Baulbasaur fight last night I thought I was doing something wrong. So my cuz looked up a strategy for me and we found out I was doing what I should have been doing, I just had to deal with the fact the pussy needed to be at near full health by the end of each "round" or he'd die. And I still had to revive him 3 times. Moron kept healing Lightning when he'd have less than 100 HP. Idiot.

You actually brought up another point that's silly: you essentially HAVE to use Libra to make your other party members (particularly the useless Hope) do anything good against the tougher enemies or bosses. That's actually a direct result of the limitation of the paradigm system. Since you can't actually control what they do, you have to waste an item or magic to help them figure it out. It's stupid. Just let me use them and I'll figure out what they need to do. Then I can set them to fight any way I want. Allowing me to choose their attack patterns (ie. what they do, not just a set of moves) then setting them on autopilot unless I decide to change it up is real strategy. Giving me a choice of only 3 things is dumbed-down strategy and that's never a good thing.

Not having a focus and antagonist in a storyline is never a good thing. It can work for a while but it must be remedied relatively early on. Otherwise the writers just start filling in the space left by a lack of enemy with extra shit that just fills the story for no reason. That's exactly what we're seeing with the FF13 storyline.

[Zeus]

Well, they sort of tell you all of those things. You should read the datalogs. They're very short and SO SO helpful. But the instruction manual also tells you.

Not to sound like an ass, but why should I? These are things you should do if you want to delve deeper into the world created by the game, not to understand what is going on. They're extras, not essentials. Bioshock and Batman did it best with their audio diaries and interview tapes, respectively (don't give them "yeah, but they're not RPGs" argument; we're talking about a method of telling a story here). I wanted to know more about Rapture and the background stories of Ryan, Atlas, Lamb, and Tenenbaum, so I went hunting for the audio tapes. I loved the history of characters and Arkham Asylum the interview tapes gave, so I hunted them all down. But if I didn't get them, it's not like I didn't know what was going on, who the characters were, or what their motivation was in either of those games.

If that's what Square's doing, forcing you to read the manual or extra dialogue crap to properly understand the story, it's a horrible, horrible idea.

Whoa, Zeus and I agree on something!

I have no problem with having additional extra information but it is stupid to expect you to go read somewhere else just to understand what's happening in the game.

Miracles do happen, Don. They're just rare :-)

[Zeus]

Ah hahaha, another corner of the internet where people are split on the game. ^_^

I'm still playing the game believe it or not. I haven't completely given up on it, I'm really trying to give it more than enough chance to get better

[Julius Seeker]

Addressing your issues:
Enemies that hit you really hard and you find yourself dying very quickly tend to require some strategy. Luckily all you have to do is use Libra and it pretty much tells you what to do or at the very least changes your auto battle such that you and your teammates are using the best skills possible. A good example is with Odin where it (minor spoiler ahead) tells you that he deals lightning damage and the game gives you lightning resistance rings out the ass up until that point. It doesn't make it much easier but it helps you with what you need to do. Later the normal encounters get more involved, as well and you find yourself switching paradigms 2+ times even in the easier fights. A few are still just using auto, though. That never really goes away completely 15 hours in at least.

Vanille gets vastly more interesting. She's far from my favorite, but I like her, now. Most of your issues with the characters are later addressed and they grow from it. Hope is still a bit of a douche, though. I've found it's a common anime technique where characters are insufferably horrible until *blank* happens to them and you find out why and then they change from it.

Not knowing your focus is... part of the story. Not knowing who exactly your enemy is works because the characters don't know who it really is either, and the ones that feel like they do are being short sighted.

And, yeah, if you're having issues with putting together the story and terms you should really check out the datalog. A great deal of the first part of the thread was us praising it for not holding our hands and wasting 20+ minutes of our time explaining all that mumbo jumbo to us.

You're wasting your time on Zeus. Think about it, he is someone who very obviously has an irrational bias about FF13 (no one normal is going to put that much time and effort into bashing a game they have barely played); and is therefore not going to approach the game reasonably. Nothing he is saying will amount to constructive discussion on the game. He just wants to bash his game to serve his own "holier than thou" ego (he even calls himself "Zeus"); even though all he is is just another overweight man-child who obviously has nothing better to do with his life than spend WAY too much time bitching on the internet.

[Shrinweck]

I was born before '88... You're also placing final judgments on a game you're admittedly maybe a quarter of the way through. And, yeah, the game tells you you basically have to use libra to have them be effective on the tougher enemies... It is the point of the skill. I don't really get this complaint in any way.

[Blotus]

Ah hahaha, another corner of the internet where people are split on the game. ^_^

I no rite. Can't help myself from checking out GameFAQs boards daily to just see the drama. Most any criticism of the game is quickly met with "go play halo", "you just don't get it", or (and I see it's not just limited to 'tard forums like FAQs) personal attacks. So Zeus, you ought to know that not liking this game means you're a pedo loser and you're going to hell and your little brain can only handle American games, not this brilliant yarn that is FF13.

Anyway, I'm warming up to it some more now. I seriously want my 3-member party back, though. It feels like forever that I've been dealing with just two members at a time (Saz/Van, Lit/Hope, Snow/Hope, Lit/Fang) and in some cases it's just annoying. I haven't been dying too often, but Snow and Hope don't make a good combo for chains since you have to have a Com/Rav setup going to actually do enough damage to stagger anything. By the time something is staggered or near staggered, Hope has to switch to medic or burn through potions. Granted, I don't use Sentinel much because the counter attacks aren't very effective at this point and Hope can't stagger anything as a Rav by himself.

Regarding characters: I like Lightning. She's sexy-lookin in a cool and not slutty way. She's also not a completely cold and stubborn person, as you see her having moments of clarity and even weakness as time goes on. Saz is alright, don't know much about him still but "it's damp and something bit me" was funny. Snow is super gay in the way Zell was from 8 -- the winking, thumbs up, big grin "I'LL TAKE CARE OF THE BAD GUYS", punches groups of machine gun-toting enemies, trench coat and uh... whatever that stupid NORA acronym stood for. Something about no responsibilities... I don't remember. Hope... beh. My issue with Vanille is mostly with her voice actress who, unlike Fang's, can't keep the Australian accent consistent. I just met Fang, but something tells me she'll be the least whiny and annoying of the bunch. HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT, like everything else, the characters are growing on me.

I haven't (permanently) upgraded or sold anything yet. When will I need to do that? There are so many components you can use to upgrade shit but some grant bonuses while others don't and you'd have no way of knowing without trial-and-erroring the mess or consulting a FAQ. I don't want to run into a case where I dump a bunch of resources into a weapon only to realize I blew all of my fangs/chips/etc. on a shitty weapon. I guess the fun of it should be in the experimentation but I just have a hard time doing that with systems like this one. I think the least they could have done is put a tiny memo in the description of each one telling you what bonus it may grant.

LEMME JUST SAY DIS ONE THING: I would hate to do art assets for a game like this one, on the rendering end anyway. It a problem not limited to FF13: so much time and money is spent rendering absolutely unnecessary backdrops and details that you'll see for less than a second. This game is especially bad since you're running directly from point A to point B in every chapter. There's got to be middle-ground between being bland and being what this is while accomplishing the same effect. A few areas in the game so far, namely Pulse Vestige interior, Whitewood, and beneath Palumpolum w/Hope/Lit, are just sort of ugly to look at. Granted, the graphics and textures are great for sure, but you have to look at this type of obtuse and fantastically nonfunctional architecture and wonder not only who or what in this fantasy world designed such a nightmare of a space, but what the level designers were thinking. At least, I wondered anyway. I don't have an answer for myself other than they probably thought it looked cool, or that hovering platforms is the new black.

LONGEST POST IN MONTHS. Bedtime.

[Zeus]

I was born before '88... You're also placing final judgments on a game you're admittedly maybe a quarter of the way through. And, yeah, the game tells you you basically have to use libra to have them be effective on the tougher enemies... It is the point of the skill. I don't really get this complaint in any way.

Using Libra isn't a skill, it's just a procedure. It's like saying "you have to turn on your computer before you use it". There's no skill involved in any way

[Zeus]

Addressing your issues:
Enemies that hit you really hard and you find yourself dying very quickly tend to require some strategy. Luckily all you have to do is use Libra and it pretty much tells you what to do or at the very least changes your auto battle such that you and your teammates are using the best skills possible. A good example is with Odin where it (minor spoiler ahead) tells you that he deals lightning damage and the game gives you lightning resistance rings out the ass up until that point. It doesn't make it much easier but it helps you with what you need to do. Later the normal encounters get more involved, as well and you find yourself switching paradigms 2+ times even in the easier fights. A few are still just using auto, though. That never really goes away completely 15 hours in at least.

Vanille gets vastly more interesting. She's far from my favorite, but I like her, now. Most of your issues with the characters are later addressed and they grow from it. Hope is still a bit of a douche, though. I've found it's a common anime technique where characters are insufferably horrible until *blank* happens to them and you find out why and then they change from it.

Not knowing your focus is... part of the story. Not knowing who exactly your enemy is works because the characters don't know who it really is either, and the ones that feel like they do are being short sighted.

And, yeah, if you're having issues with putting together the story and terms you should really check out the datalog. A great deal of the first part of the thread was us praising it for not holding our hands and wasting 20+ minutes of our time explaining all that mumbo jumbo to us.

You're wasting your time on Zeus. Think about it, he is someone who very obviously has an irrational bias about FF13 (no one normal is going to put that much time and effort into bashing a game they have barely played); and is therefore not going to approach the game reasonably. Nothing he is saying will amount to constructive discussion on the game. He just wants to bash his game to serve his own "holier than thou" ego (he even calls himself "Zeus"); even though all he is is just another overweight man-child who obviously has nothing better to do with his life than spend WAY too much time bitching on the internet.

Seek, for once in your natural life, try not turning every argument into a destructive one

[SineSwiper]

This conversation is boring. Let's talk about TRAINS!

[Julius Seeker]

Seek, for once in your natural life, try not turning every argument into a destructive one

one spoiling the thread is you. You don't seem to have an interest in serious discussion. As I said, there's no point in talking to you about the game. The only goal on your agenda is to spam this thread with pages of game bashing comments that really serve no constructive purpose.

[Zeus]

Ah hahaha, another corner of the internet where people are split on the game. ^_^

I no rite. Can't help myself from checking out GameFAQs boards daily to just see the drama. Most any criticism of the game is quickly met with "go play halo", "you just don't get it", or (and I see it's not just limited to 'tard forums like FAQs) personal attacks. So Zeus, you ought to know that not liking this game means you're a pedo loser and you're going to hell and your little brain can only handle American games, not this brilliant yarn that is FF13.

Anyway, I'm warming up to it some more now. I seriously want my 3-member party back, though. It feels like forever that I've been dealing with just two members at a time (Saz/Van, Lit/Hope, Snow/Hope, Lit/Fang) and in some cases it's just annoying. I haven't been dying too often, but Snow and Hope don't make a good combo for chains since you have to have a Com/Rav setup going to actually do enough damage to stagger anything. By the time something is staggered or near staggered, Hope has to switch to medic or burn through potions. Granted, I don't use Sentinel much because the counter attacks aren't very effective at this point and Hope can't stagger anything as a Rav by himself.

Regarding characters: I like Lightning. She's sexy-lookin in a cool and not slutty way. She's also not a completely cold and stubborn person, as you see her having moments of clarity and even weakness as time goes on. Saz is alright, don't know much about him still but "it's damp and something bit me" was funny. Snow is super gay in the way Zell was from 8 -- the winking, thumbs up, big grin "I'LL TAKE CARE OF THE BAD GUYS", punches groups of machine gun-toting enemies, trench coat and uh... whatever that stupid NORA acronym stood for. Something about no responsibilities... I don't remember. Hope... beh. My issue with Vanille is mostly with her voice actress who, unlike Fang's, can't keep the Australian accent consistent. I just met Fang, but something tells me she'll be the least whiny and annoying of the bunch. HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT, like everything else, the characters are growing on me.

I haven't (permanently) upgraded or sold anything yet. When will I need to do that? There are so many components you can use to upgrade shit but some grant bonuses while others don't and you'd have no way of knowing without trial-and-erroring the mess or consulting a FAQ. I don't want to run into a case where I dump a bunch of resources into a weapon only to realize I blew all of my fangs/chips/etc. on a shitty weapon. I guess the fun of it should be in the experimentation but I just have a hard time doing that with systems like this one. I think the least they could have done is put a tiny memo in the description of each one telling you what bonus it may grant.

LEMME JUST SAY DIS ONE THING: I would hate to do art assets for a game like this one, on the rendering end anyway. It a problem not limited to FF13: so much time and money is spent rendering absolutely unnecessary backdrops and details that you'll see for less than a second. This game is especially bad since you're running directly from point A to point B in every chapter. There's got to be middle-ground between being bland and being what this is while accomplishing the same effect. A few areas in the game so far, namely Pulse Vestige interior, Whitewood, and beneath Palumpolum w/Hope/Lit, are just sort of ugly to look at. Granted, the graphics and textures are great for sure, but you have to look at this type of obtuse and fantastically nonfunctional architecture and wonder not only who or what in this fantasy world designed such a nightmare of a space, but what the level designers were thinking. At least, I wondered anyway. I don't have an answer for myself other than they probably thought it looked cool, or that hovering platforms is the new black.

LONGEST POST IN MONTHS. Bedtime.

Of course, there couldn't possibly be any sane person on this planet who doesn't recognize the brilliance of Squeenix and everything that is Final Fantasy. It's quite simple, either you don't get it, either because you haven't played it enough or you're too stupid to figure out how it really works, or you're just insane. I do forget this on a regular basis....either that or I'm insane. Likely the latter :-)

I'm now about halfway through Chapter 6 (about 10 hours) and although the story's picked up a very little with the introduction of Cid and what's her name (I don't know it yet), really, it's still not strong. The battles are still either extremely simple or the enemies are ridiculously over-HP'd (I just finished fighting two creatures that each had over 70k HP) so the battle system is a little dull to be honestly. Again, I keep hearing how it's supposed to get so much better and I'd like to see that, but I'm slowly running out of patience (and time; I'm trading the game in on Tuesday regardless, it's not worth losing $30 to hold on to it for an extra week or so; besides, God of War 3 comes out then and I'm sure it'll easily trump FF13 in terms of playtime).

And I can't fucking wait until I'm done with these stupid two-member parties. I've been going on these gimped parties for at least 4 or 5 hours now. With Lightning and Hope, it feels more like 1 1/2 so it's even worse.

Last night I was playing the game for about 20 minutes while my friends were having their umpteenth smoke break. When they finished they came back in and I was just finishing off a fight before saving. Within 30 seconds, both of them at nearly the same time remarked at how horribly, atrociously bad the music was. That's not a good sign.

One other thing I forgot to mention that I actually liked other than the graphics: the lack of money. I think so far I've got a grand total of 2000 gil in the game, maybe a little more. And I go after nearly every item orb I come across. You have everything you need in terms of skills so there's no reason to keep buying potions and stuff (although I do want more Phoenix Down's; Hope still goes down in one round regularly even when he's on Medic mode). And the weapon and equipment upgrades are far better than buying new ones IMO. BTW, just look at the EXP you get for each mineral you put towards each weapon or equipment; each mineral gives you different EXP towards each piece of equipment or weapon, it's being as efficient as possible that's the trick. And you should do that every once in a while, it makes your characters significantly stronger in their attacks and defense so you won't have nearly the hassle getting through some of the fights. So that's two more things it does well (other than graphics).

[Zeus]

Seek, for once in your natural life, try not turning every argument into a destructive one

The one spoiling the thread is you. You don't seem to have an interest in serious discussion. As I said, there's no point in talking to you about the game. The only goal on your agenda is to spam this thread with pages of game bashing comments that really serve no constructive purpose.

*smack*

[Julius Seeker]

One other thing I forgot to mention that I actually liked other than the graphics: the lack of money. I think so far I've got a grand total of 2000 gil in the game, maybe a little more. And I go after nearly every item orb I come across. You have everything you need in terms of skills so there's no reason to keep buying potions and stuff (although I do want more Phoenix Down's; Hope still goes down in one round regularly even when he's on Medic mode). And the weapon and equipment upgrades are far better than buying new ones IMO. BTW, just look at the EXP you get for each mineral you put towards each weapon or equipment; each mineral gives you different EXP towards each piece of equipment or weapon, it's being as efficient as possible that's the trick. And you should do that every once in a while, it makes your characters significantly stronger in their attacks and defense so you won't have nearly the hassle getting through some of the fights. So that's two more things it does well (other than graphics).

Well, I haven't yet said anything in this thread about you possessing a substandard ability to understand the game; but I think this might be fairly apparent from this paragraph.

[Zeus]

One other thing I forgot to mention that I actually liked other than the graphics: the lack of money. I think so far I've got a grand total of 2000 gil in the game, maybe a little more. And I go after nearly every item orb I come across. You have everything you need in terms of skills so there's no reason to keep buying potions and stuff (although I do want more Phoenix Down's; Hope still goes down in one round regularly even when he's on Medic mode). And the weapon and equipment upgrades are far better than buying new ones IMO. BTW, just look at the EXP you get for each mineral you put towards each weapon or equipment; each mineral gives you different EXP towards each piece of equipment or weapon, it's being as efficient as possible that's the trick. And you should do that every once in a while, it makes your characters significantly stronger in their attacks and defense so you won't have nearly the hassle getting through some of the fights. So that's two more things it does well (other than graphics).

Well, I haven't yet said anything in this thread about you possessing a substandard intelligence; but I think this might be fairly apparent from this paragraph.

*smack**smack**smack*

[RentCavalier]

The soundtrack is growing on me considerably, actually. They tend to reuse the same five songs, but at least they sound nice and blend into the background, accentuating cutscenes without drowning them out.

And MAN am I loving these cutscenes. I don't even CARE if they aren't interactive, holy shit every single one is just awesome. The facial expressions are so spot on it gives me chills.

[Zeus]

The soundtrack is growing on me considerably, actually. They tend to reuse the same five songs, but at least they sound nice and blend into the background, accentuating cutscenes without drowning them out.

And MAN am I loving these cutscenes. I don't even CARE if they aren't interactive, holy shit every single one is just awesome. The facial expressions are so spot on it gives me chills.

For sure the FMV is absolutely gorgeous. Light-years ahead of the FF movie they did. And the in-game graphics are amazing, too. Only MGS4 is better, and that's barely.

[Zeus]

I pretty much agree with the review of the game at 1up. I'm finding the storyline is getting a lot stronger with the introduction of Fang, so I'm hoping I end up with the same feelings as this guy

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3178230&p=37

EDIT: I apologize, I forgot to include the "except for the overall score and battle system" caveat in the original post

[Julius Seeker]

At about 21-22 hours, the game changes A LOT. I haven't explored much around this area, but without spoiling too much; it looks like he rapid progression phase is over - and that it now has shifted to a much more opened up type world. Gameplaywise, not too long earlier everythin opened up with the class system (now everyone can be anything); the downside is that explorin beyond the character's traditional roles is more CP costly.

My party consistst of Snow as a commando/Seninal. Vanille as a medic/ravager/sabateur, and lightning as a Commando/Ravager/Synergist/medic. Most of the time all that I use is aggression (com/com/rav), and for tougher enemies Relentless (com/rav/rav) with Clinic (Senintal/Med/Med).

So far, in terms of difficulty, this game is MUCH easier than 10 or 12. Perhaps only 6 and 7 are easier in the series. The most difficult battles were probably when you get the first two Eidolons, but future Eidolon battles are very easy in comparison. Though now that I am past the first portion of the game, I can't say how difficult the next portion is until playin it.

[Shrinweck]

I'm basically at the same point as you, Seeker. I'm on the fourth Eidolon battle and decided to give it a rest. I start fights with com/rav/rav, and switch to com/sen/rav if it's going to be a long fight, switching the rav to med as needed. I've been screwing around but at the moment I'm doing Lightning (pretty much only for her commando skills), Snow (switching between all three com/rav/sen), and Hope (rav/med). The Hope/Vanille decision had to do with preferring his whiny little sobs over her annoying squeaks in battle.

It's interesting to see you've made use of clinic, something I've actually never done. I imagine the healing goes faster but do you find yourself losing stagger bars?

Edit: Oops, nevermind - I pretty much had to use combat clinic for the Eidolon I was on

[Julius Seeker]

I find Combat Clinic is a good way to recharge quickly to a point to use relenetless or aggression without much fear; I have fairly advanced defensive accessories equiped as well, which I fin helps a lot for durability. The key is having enough durability to stagger most tough opponents in one round of relentless assault (before hp gets to dangerous levels on anyone) then the battle is won.

[Oracle]

I just got to the point of party customization last night, and I'm now in the Ark.

Party I use is Lightning/Snow/Sazh. I only use snow because he has Ravager all trained up. Once I can do that with Fang, bye bye Snow.

I'll most likely train Sazh up as a backup medic, as well. Right now I start with Com/Rav/Rav, switch to Med/Com/Rav if I need a bit of healing, and if the battle is going to be a mess I go with Med/Sent/Syn to mitigate the damage and get everyone buffed up with haste, brave and faith from Sazh.

I usually start with Com/Rav/Rav. If it's one tough enemy, I'll then switch to Rav/Rav/Rav to boost the chain gauge fast. Then I'll go Com/Com/Com (Cerberus) to shit kick when the enemy is staggered.

[Shrinweck]

I was messing around with a Fang(leader), Snow, Lightning combination that did pretty well most of the time. The stuff after the Ark is fucking difficult. I'm gonna step away for a day or so before I attempt to see what I've been doing wrong. Hopefully it doesn't want to me just plain grind.

[RentCavalier]

I was messing around with a Fang(leader), Snow, Lightning combination that did pretty well most of the time. The stuff after the Ark is fucking difficult. I'm gonna step away for a day or so before I attempt to see what I've been doing wrong. Hopefully it doesn't want to me just plain grind.

I am at the same part as you. As far as I've been able to tell, you are actually SUPPOSED to be sucking right now--half the enemies on the map are out of your league, and you need to be avoiding the big dinos and Behemoths (though the latter CAN be killed if you're quick and lucky). For laughs, go pick a fight with one of those big lumbering...things. Quickest battle in the game.

My ideal starting combo is Rav/Sen/Rav. I hate PLAYING as a Sentinel, so I usually have Lightning as my leader, since she's really well-balanced. Right now my battle team is led by Hope, which may be a bad idea since he has such pathetically small amounts of HP.

[Julius Seeker]

I have all three characters with tier 2 weapons now.

Best way to go about upgrades:

organic items upgrade exp bonus (up to X3)
machine items have high exp yields, but deplete exp bonus.

1. Get bonus up to X3
2. Use machine items only when that bonu is x3
3. Sell all cred chips, extra accessories, and extra weapons
4. Buy stacks of expensive machine items and cheap organic items
5. Dump huge stacks on weapons and smaller stacks on accessories you are using.
6. Catalyze them at level star

[Oracle]

Yea, I just buy iron shells to boost stuff to x3 multiplier, then crank shafts (I think) when the x3 bonus is on.

I have Lightning with a tier 2 weapon that is at lvl 26. I almost have Sazh's stagger maintenance weaponm to tier 2. Haven't upgraded anyone else's, because I don't know who I'll use for the 3rd part spot mostly yet. It will probably be Fang.

[Shrinweck]

I loved how short my first fight with one of those big dinosaurs went. *STOMP* 60% of my life gone OH SHIT SWITCH TO SENTINEL PARADIGM *stomp* too late. I found a big flying unit that was killable, at least. The behemeths I did alright against until I got its life low and then it started dealing monster damage even to my mediguarding sentinel. To my dismay even the mission it sends you on there are enemies that are too difficult to defeat.

[RentCavalier]

I loved how short my first fight with one of those big dinosaurs went. *STOMP* 60% of my life gone OH SHIT SWITCH TO SENTINEL PARADIGM *stomp* too late. I found a big flying unit that was killable, at least. The behemeths I did alright against until I got its life low and then it started dealing monster damage even to my mediguarding sentinel. To my dismay even the mission it sends you on there are enemies that are too difficult to defeat.

The first two missions are quite doable, not too much trouble. I didn't do the third one--decided to wait til I come back and clean house. Though, in all honesty, the game's gotten REALLY friggin' hard at this point. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be grinding or what, but just about every encounter is potentially deadly, and some of the robotic enemies you meet in the next area are friggin' ASSHOLES.

[Oracle]

Though, in all honesty, the game's gotten REALLY friggin' hard at this point. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be grinding or what, but just about every encounter is potentially deadly, and some of the robotic enemies you meet in the next area are friggin' ASSHOLES.

I find the difficulty somewhat refreshing. I just hope it doesn't get so silly that a split second decision makes or breaks me in a battle that takes a long time.

I've experienced a bit of frustration with the game, but so far, I'm still liking it.

Spoiler: show

I finished the first Cei'th quest, and then put the game down for the night. Love that I can finally run around in an area that isn't just a long corridore

.

[Zeus]

Over the last 3 or 4 hours of game time (16 1/2 hours in now, just left Palumpolum), the game has grown on me a bit. With Fang introduced, I finally have a character I kinda like. Lightning and Sazh have always been aight too. But the biggest change is the story is actually moving along now. That's made a big difference. There's a focus to the storyline now and there's actually an enemy to look at. It's getting better, very non-FF7 like.

Still not a fan of the battle system at all but at least now I don't have Pussy as my only other group member. After 7 hours of dealing with his uselessness it's refreshing to have decent group that can actually attack rather than having to do the whole one-hit-then-defend procedure (it's not a strategy) I've been enduring for half the game. Basically, it's become far less of a chore to play the game than it was before so I can actually enjoy it a little. From the trophies, it looks like I'm a little under halfway done so I'm hoping the second half of the game keep getting better.

But, alas, that will have to wait. God of War 3 comes out today.

[Julius Seeker]

I would say my list right now it goes:

1. Vanille
2. Snow
3. Light (tie)
3. Sahz (tie)
5. Hope
6. Fang

I like all the characters though, but Fang hasn't really grown on me. I don't dislike her, I just don't really find her interesting compared to the others.

[RentCavalier]

I would say my list right now it goes:

1. Vanille
2. Snow
3. Light (tie)
3. Sahz (tie)
5. Hope
6. Fang

I like all the characters though, but Fang hasn't really grown on me. I don't dislike her, I just don't really find her interesting compared to the others.

Fang is hit or miss--I like her a lot, and she offers an interesting outsider's perspective, but she doesn't/hasn't changed much throughout the game. She heads some really sweet scenes upcoming though, so she ought to grow on you.

Also, was anyone else kind of surprised how LESS annoying Hope got? I wanted to tear his lungs out and stomp on them when he first joined, but now he's actually one of my favorite characters--his development is surprisingly integral to the whole group dynamic.

[Zeus]

Hope is still an irritating fuck and by far my most hated character. Vanille is actually the one who's gone from fucking irritating to tolerable

[Blotus]

I don't mind Hope much anymore. After he (FINALLY) confronts Snow and that shit with his dad goes down, he's alright. They're all less annoying now! Too bad I'm now at the part of the game that's fun and God of War 3 is out.

Speaking of GoW 3...
Boss spoilers, Hercules:

Spoiler: show

HOLY FUCK HE PUNCHED HIS FACE OFF

[Zeus]

I don't mind Hope much anymore. After he (FINALLY) confronts Snow and that shit with his dad goes down, he's alright. They're all less annoying now! Too bad I'm now at the part of the game that's fun and God of War 3 is out.

Speaking of GoW 3...
Boss spoilers, Hercules:

Spoiler: show

HOLY FUCK HE PUNCHED HIS FACE OFF

Yeah, I traded my FF13 in (couldn't justify losing $30 or so just to hold on to it for an extra couple of weeks). Like Arioc/Malhavok said "why the hell should it take 12 hours before the game gets any good and you suffer all that time"? He basically had the exact same impressions as we did. I'll just get back to it later (I JUST got to the point where I can choose my party members; Hope has officially been kicked off the island, never to return) but right now I've got far more pressing (and less frustrating) games to play.

I am playin' through GoW3 now, just got my first secondary weapon. That opening was freakin' awesome and holy CRAP does the game look amazing. Between that and FF13, and to a far lesser extent Uncharted 2, we finally have games on the PS3 that are challenging MGS4s crown as best looking game of this generation

[SineSwiper]

Just got it yesterday. About 2-3 hours in, and played through a bunch of the different characters now.

I think you guys are whiners.

Yeah, you could just play with Auto-Battle all day, but that's just stupid. I play manually mostly and get 5 stars 99% of the time. You don't get the items if you're not getting 5 stars. Even the simple strategy of figuring out if you want to use the area attack or the single target attack is enhanced with the fast gameplay. And I'm not idiotic enough to believe that it's going to be like that forever.

The story is interesting, even if some of the emotions aren't completely believable. ("Dude, a bunch of my allies died on my watch. I'll just brush myself off and keep going." Oh, and giving kids guns is fun, too. Too bad you didn't get a scene with one of them accidently shooting each other.) Vanille is currently annoying and her personality is dumb.

Oh, and I read my datalog like the game told me to, and everything makes sense so far. So, again, you guys are a bunch of fucking whiners.

[Oracle]

Yeah, you could just play with Auto-Battle all day, but that's just stupid. I play manually mostly and get 5 stars 99% of the time. You don't get the items if you're not getting 5 stars. Even the simple strategy of figuring out if you want to use the area attack or the single target attack is enhanced with the fast gameplay. And I'm not idiotic enough to believe that it's going to be like that forever.

Yea, auto-battle is a bit of a must later on. The battle's just move so fast. I do interupt the auto-battle, however. For instance, it will default to casting 5 cures on someone. Somtimes I only want to do 2 because I have to switch to another role quick to accomplish something, so I interupt it after 2 have been cast.

Most of the time I spend accessing the menu is to switch paradigms. Paradigm switching has pretty much taken the place of carefully choosing which abilities to use (although I love just chain casting ruinaga when I'm hasted. Enemies can't do anything).

I'm having a very hard time getting 5 stars on some of the battles I've been fighting lately. Think I may have to grind a bit more so I can drop enemies faster. I'm about 30 hours in.

[Blotus]

Oh, and I read my datalog like the game told me to, and everything makes sense so far. So, again, you guys are a bunch of fucking whiners.

Oh, Sine (eat shit). If people have issue with the game and want to vent, they (we) will. It just so happens with this title that you can't criticize it without the FF13 Defense Force jumping down your throat with "whiners!", "you're doing it wrong", or "go play Haloz". It's just lazy storytelling if I have to read a companion text to the universe to understand what's going on. Everything becomes less confusing as the game goes on, but the details reveal themselves slowly. I'll be damned if I'm called a whiner for not reading the Cliffs Notes along with the game.

[Julius Seeker]

Oh, and I read my datalog like the game told me to, and everything makes sense so far. So, again, you guys are a bunch of fucking whiners.

Oh, Sine (eat shit). If people have issue with the game and want to vent, they (we) will.

That would be the definition of whining. What else is the point of it? When you spam the thread with multi-paged whine posts, it really ruins the thread people are trying to use to actually discuss the game. It's unfortunate that you feel wronged (and feel the need to lash out) for being called a whiner for whining.

Some of you guys make Hope seem like Gandhi, and his character's mother died. You're only just playing a game that you failed to enjoy along with the rest of us; and it is not like you already didn't know long ago what the game was going to be like. These are your problems, keep them that way and let the people who want to discuss it do so without having to put up with whine spam.

[Blotus]

Remind me to tell you to stop whining the next time you post anything negative about anything.

[Kupek]

Talking about a game's faults, or why one does not enjoy a game, is part of discussing a game.

[Don]

Being able to think critically and not take everything at face value is supposed to be a good idea. I mean you can say 'according to the story, XYZ's dog died when he was young and that event scarred him for life so he decided to become a god so no more dogs will die.' I mean since this scene is fictional I can't say for sure it is completely implausible, but most of us would think that'd be a pretty weak excuse for characterization. For example a lot of people thought Squall was an annoying whiner, and his circumstance doesn't really justify that level of whininess (yeah he was an orphan, like everyone else in the game is), and it also doesn't justify why he's like the de facto leader when he's a loner that never had anything good to say. Yeah you can say the game SAID he was a great leader but you sure can't tell based on the game's context.

A game has to be held to a standard that is enjoyable without outside help, and I think reading a Cliff Notes, even if it's in game, counts as that. For example many people blasted FF8's battle system as excessively long. You can say well they just didn't get the Junction System since you can just do J-STR and attack your way. Well that's all good except there's no indication that's the best way to go, and for a series that showcases graphics it's easy to assume you're supposed to summon stuff all day long. After all summoning them makes it stronger the next (or at least faster, since it builds affinity).

Chrono Cross's element system sucks if you customize it too much since it totally takes the fun out of the game, but then people should not expect to know that you're not supposed to put 10 Healing Winds/Alls on your Element grid and ensure that there's no possibilty of ever losing. The game is played best when you just auto select your element grid since that forces you to be creative when working with only 1-2 Healing Wind/Alls, but again that's not something you're supposed to know ahead of time. So the result is that you get a game that's generally too easy. These issues might not be show stoppers but they definitely take away from the game, and it's the game's fault for not being able to deal with it.

[Julius Seeker]

Talking about a game's faults, or why one does not enjoy a game, is part of discussing a game.

There's a difference between objective criticism that is informative and arguable (like Don), and repetetive whining that is unimformative, heavily exagerated, inaccurate, and spamlike (like Zeus); based on some bias or an agenda to battle against this game on the Internet.

When saying stuff like "I only have received 2000gc in 8.5 chapters" among other things, is just evidence that he didn't really understand the game - or didn't actually play it. It's like taking Earthbound or FF8 and talking about how there's no money in those games; or complaining about the difficulty of battles in an RPG because you didn't equip any new equipment onto your character.

It's difficult to have a good discussion about the game when it is being constantly populated by spam posts from militant forum whiners; who claim to be RPG buffs from the precise date of 1988. Really just sad, pathetic bastards with nothing better to do with their lives except spam a lot of bullshit about games they claim to hate, yet can't stop discussing.