The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • Starcraft 2 impressions

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #148090  by Shrinweck
 Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:06 am
Just finished the campaign. The ending was very well done.

And the credits... yowza. The QA testing alone probably cost a small fortune even if they were paying them next to nothing (which, well, they probably were) and that's only a fraction of the people who worked on it.

Also - they thanked caffeine haha.
 #148111  by Anarky
 Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:14 pm
Blotus wrote:Did anybody get the CE with the art book? I'm wondering if there's a decent picture of the girl on Tychus' armor. I need a hi-res version of it to turn into vector art. What I'm working with now is the best screencap I could take in-game and it's super pixelly when blown-up.
I'll look tonight and if so I'll make a scan at work the next day
 #148130  by SineSwiper
 Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:33 am
Is it just me or does every game in the campaign go like this:

1. Try out their new units.
2. Realize that their new units suck compared to Marines.
3. Restart by building a massive army of Marines and laying waste to everything.

The Stimpack/Medic combos just seem to beat everybody. I guess this is a campaign only thing, especially with Marine/Medic fully upgraded, but it's kinda disappointing that you can't try to build a balanced army on Hard, and then realize that you should have just built more marines.
 #148132  by Louis
 Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:39 am
SineSwiper wrote:Is it just me or does every game in the campaign go like this:

1. Try out their new units.
2. Realize that their new units suck compared to Marines.
3. Restart by building a massive army of Marines and laying waste to everything.

The Stimpack/Medic combos just seem to beat everybody. I guess this is a campaign only thing, especially with Marine/Medic fully upgraded, but it's kinda disappointing that you can't try to build a balanced army on Hard, and then realize that you should have just built more marines.
I noticed this too. Except for maps that require you to do something unique (battle cruisers for shield generators) You can own just by creating a bunch of marines and medics.
 #148141  by Anarky
 Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:52 pm
SineSwiper wrote:Is it just me or does every game in the campaign go like this:

1. Try out their new units.
2. Realize that their new units suck compared to Marines.
3. Restart by building a massive army of Marines and laying waste to everything.

The Stimpack/Medic combos just seem to beat everybody. I guess this is a campaign only thing, especially with Marine/Medic fully upgraded, but it's kinda disappointing that you can't try to build a balanced army on Hard, and then realize that you should have just built more marines.
Actually some maps seem to be that the only unit you should be building is the one introduced. The map where you stop the train you just mass diamond backs.

Granted Marines and medics always go a long way.
 #148145  by Eric
 Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:10 pm
Marines are awesome, except on any Protoss missions, lawl storm.

Granted I played through on Brutal, so my marines kept getting raped.
 #148148  by Flip
 Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:10 pm
A big ball of any ranged unit (and especially with automatic healing flying around) will make short work of anything. Melee units can only surround enough to where only 4 or 5 units can be attacking at once while 30-50 ranged units can be dealing damage together...

That being said, there are hard counters to marines, but i guess the computer isnt all that good at doing it.
 #148150  by Shrinweck
 Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:23 pm
Later it gets more difficult to move marines around to do specific things. Like in the last mission of the campaign I used about 20 vikings and 20 banshees and just flew them around to where they were needed. Marines were useless unless they were in bunkers because they would just get killed immediately. Fifty of them, even if I used a hercules transport (not available in MP), would not have done the job. The game changes as you move along. Some missions basically force you to at least use the new units given to you, especially the battlecruiser mission. Wraiths are still pretty useless, though. If you group enough of the new units they'll typically do better than marines.

Fully upgraded siege tanks wreck town if you can support them so they aren't getting fired upon. The later missions I would definitely use the ever loving hell out of the mercenaries. At a certain point the game even gives you a tip to use the mercenaries as your primary force haha.
 #148151  by Eric
 Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:10 pm
Marines trivialize the last mission actually, even on Brutal.

Simple strat for all of you, 2 bunkers/8 tanks/2 psi disruptors at both entrances. 5-8 banshees sniping Nydus Wyrms, when Kerrigan appears, burn the artifact, and send out 24-30 marines, stim, avoid her AE, and burn her down before she reaches your bunkers/tanks, the marines will be the only things you lose, and occasional banshee from Hydras.
 #148157  by Shrinweck
 Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:49 pm
I disabled the land units in that one. Marines don't work out against that many fliers especially the ones that shoot broodlings from far away.
 #148165  by Anarky
 Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:04 pm
Blotus wrote:Thanks either way!
They had shots of Tycus but the graphic on his shoulder wasn't there :-/
 #148174  by Flip
 Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:36 pm
Image

Meh, that was just from a print screen of the campaign... would be pixely if blown up, too, but i have the graphics up all the way.
 #148178  by SineSwiper
 Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:20 pm
Yeah, I always thought it was an interesting pinup, especially with the gun, the stance, and the modern looking dress.
 #148187  by Blotus
 Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:32 pm
Bargh, thank anyway dudes. I took a bunch of screen shots and they're all about Flip's quality there. Really pixelated when blown up, hard to see details on the face and gun.
 #148190  by SineSwiper
 Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:29 pm
Blotus wrote:Bargh, thank anyway dudes. I took a bunch of screen shots and they're all about Flip's quality there. Really pixelated when blown up, hard to see details on the face and gun.
I'm surprised there isn't an artwork pack, like a good art book, with detail of the the models, etc. I know the special edition of DMC4 had a small book like that. It would make a nice tattoo, and though the game is popular, it's still unique enough to look cool.
 #148220  by Julius Seeker
 Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:31 pm
I have one more level to complete on Normal difficulty. Although I am going to attempt to get Brutal all finished as well (that last Protoss level is a bitch) so I can use the Kerrigan portrait and scare the crap out of South Korea.

Normal is fun, you don't really have to worry about strategy, as almost every level can be completed with almost any combination of units. There's essentially just one rule, go heavy anti-ground, but if they have air, make sure you have something to shoot it down.

Most levels can easily be completed by blocking entrances off with 2 bunkers, summoning in all the mercenaries you can get, and then just sending them on a rampage. I love running diamondbacks through enemy drones (weird how they call them drones, since all they do is constant work, and drones in the bee hive don't actually do any work), causing tons of destruction, and then escaping without losing any vehicles =P

2 or more Science Vessels (charged) + 6 or more BCs will easily smash anything in the game on Normal.
 #148225  by SineSwiper
 Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:43 pm
Heh, I think about getting mechanical units, but then I realize that the science vessel's healing ability has a limit, so it sucks. The medic has no energy bar. So, marines rule again.
 #148230  by Julius Seeker
 Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:53 am
Well, mechanical units can be healed through two other methods as well; by SCVs as well; also they regenerate health once you get a certain tech. They're also much more fun to use, I find; that's the main reason I don't bother with marines. The easiest way to win levels is by summoning mercenaries; you get powerful units very early, and you'll have all sorts of different military units to play around with - and you won't have to worry about spending time and resources on building extra buildings.
 #148237  by Eric
 Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:33 am
Mercenaries are very cost efficient.

You don't try and spam Sci Vessels, you make 3-4 max, and micro your army so that after a quick battle they get healed, if you're trying to tank with mechanical units like medic/marine, you're doin it wrong, if you're getting overwhelmed you probably shouldn't be fighting in the first place.

Keep in mind it's really really hard to lose on Normal/Hard unless you fall asleep or attack too early.
 #148239  by Julius Seeker
 Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:07 pm
I do, I just send my mechanical units blindly into battle, and manually control my science vessels. Helping out the mechanical units until they have pushed as far as possible through the enemy; it's actually never failed.

The biggest challenge with the current level I am on is fighting the temptation to send out my troops into glorious battle. The only defensive tactics I like to take are those to protect my army that is boxing in the pitiful enemy.
 #148530  by SineSwiper
 Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:55 am
Eric wrote:

And here come the mods.
What? The? Fuck? That's a StarCraft 2 mod?! I knew that the new map editor was powerful, but this is like a totally different game.
 #148545  by Shrinweck
 Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:07 pm
You can do even more with it. It's kind of insane. I've heard about a space ship shoot 'em up coming out.
 #148548  by Eric
 Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:43 pm
Heh yes, the map editor is ridiculous.



Somebody recreates WoW engine with SC2.
 #148552  by Julius Seeker
 Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:50 pm
Eric wrote: Somebody recreates WoW engine with SC2.
Admit it, that somebody was you!
 #148563  by SineSwiper
 Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:14 am
Eric wrote:Heh yes, the map editor is ridiculous.

Somebody recreates WoW engine with SC2.
Somebody must have hacked into the file format and converted the 3D polygon maps into SC2 compatible ones, and then manually recreated the rest (which wasn't much). I'm sure that WoW and SC2 have some sort of similar format for that sort of thing, since they are made by the same company.
 #148661  by Zeus
 Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:07 pm
bovine wrote:I beat it! Can I call it yawncraft yet?
Are you a fucking madman!?! How dare you ever even consider questioning the greatness of our lords at Blizzard?! You shall forever be banished from any lands within the Nerdom for all time!
 #148668  by SineSwiper
 Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:26 pm
LOL, that FF mod is awesome!
 #148672  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:38 am
bovine wrote:I beat it! Can I call it yawncraft yet?
I actually find that little simple shooter game to be the most fun =P


Ladder games are fairly boring for the most part too, they're only good for testing the efficiency of your build against another's, combined with micromanaging battles and such.

Custom content looks to be mostly out of this world, lots of fun.


Overall, it seemed lighter on plot than I expected. By the hype, I figured there would be hours of cutscenes and story. While there was a lot, most of it was optional and not always very interesting.

The biggest disappointment for me was that the main thing I wanted to find out in this game, based on events in Brood War, either was not touched on, or abandoned.
Spoiler: show
Samir Duran, although I realize Dr. Narud is Duran spelled backwards. My guess, if the story wasn't actually abandoned, is that a faction in the Xel'Naga were using the Zerg and the Protoss to develop new bodies for themselves. I also wonder if the main Hybrid from the future placed Protoss levels is Duran's new body.

Either way, that was the main thing I wanted to find out, and didn't.
 #148834  by Eric
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:44 pm
Fake notes were fake!
Last edited by Eric on Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #148839  by Flip
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:17 pm
I think lose leaked notes are bullshit. No way they are changing all that stuff...

No one knows if these are real or not, but it WAS blue posted on the blizz forums for 20 minutes or so until taken down. The ovies just seem like they would be so fast. I def like the cool down idea for mule and chrono boost, though.
Last edited by Flip on Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #148841  by Flip
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:34 pm
Shrinweck wrote:Don't carriers already spawn with four pre-built interceptors?
They do and i think that one little hint that it is a hoax. That, and larva walking off cliffs to their death...
 #148843  by Eric
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:30 pm
Well they said it's coming out this Tuesday, so we'll know for sure. :)
 #148846  by SineSwiper
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:59 pm
Flip wrote:
Shrinweck wrote:Don't carriers already spawn with four pre-built interceptors?
They do and i think that one little hint that it is a hoax. That, and larva walking off cliffs to their death...
Why would a hoaxer put in such an obvious mistake with the carriers? The larva thing strikes me as some that could happen if the location is right.
 #148925  by Flip
 Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:25 pm
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.1.0

To get the latest news and interact with the community, visit our StarCraft II website. Be sure to check out our Game Guide for an in-depth look at StarCraft II gameplay. We wish you all the best on your journeys through the embattled Koprulu Sector!


General

* The Standard (US) and Standard for Lefties (US) hotkey configurations are now available in all regions.
* A new game clock has been added. Players can now instantly see how long they've been in their current mission or match. This feature can be turned on or off in the Gameplay Options menu.
* A new Quick Save option is now available for the single-player campaign. Players can now quickly save their mission progress by pressing Ctrl + Q.
* A new System Panel has been added. Players can now view their local time and FPS while in game by mousing over the Menu (F10) button in the upper-left hand corner of the game screen. Laptop users can also view Wi-Fi signal strength and battery levels.
* Sight granted by death reveal no longer lifts Fog of War. Units revealed in this manner are not targetable.
* (Mac only) Moved StarCraft II data files and settings from the Documents folder into the Application Support folder.
* Support for NVIDIA 3D Vision has been added. To experience StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty in 3D on your desktop or notebook, you will need 3D Vision. For more information, visit www.nvidia.com/Starcraft3D



Balance Changes

* PROTOSS
o Zealot
+ Build time increased from 33 to 38.
+ Warp Gate cooldown increased from 23 to 28.

* TERRAN
o Battlecruiser
+ Ground damage decreased from 10 to 8.
o Bunker
+ Build time increased from 30 to 35.
o Reaper
+ Build time increased from 40 to 45.
o Siege Tank
+ Siege mode damage changed from 50 to 35 (+15 armored).
+ Upgrade damage changed from +5 to +3 (+2 armored).

* ZERG
o Ultralisk
+ Ram ability removed. Ultralisk will now use normal attack against buildings.
+ Damage decreased from 15 (+25 armored) to 15 (+20 armored).

* Maps
o Desert Oasis
+ Destructible Rocks have been added to make natural expansions easier to protect.
+ Center Xel'Naga Tower area has been narrowed.



StarCraft II Editor Improvements

* Added new requirement types: Odd, Divide, Mod, Multiply.
* Added a chance field to effect data.
* Added support for the Slider dialog control type.
* Added a trigger to deal damage from a unit.
* Added a trigger event response to provide the amount a player or unit property changes.
* Added a trigger event when an effect executes.
* New Trigger Editor functions:
o Save Data Conversation State Value (Action).
o Load Data Conversation State Value (Action).
o Players On Team (returns Player Group associated with teams in game lobby).
o Unit Owner Changes (Event).
o Old Unit Owner (returns player ID in response to Unit Owner Changes).
o New Unit Owner (returns player ID in response to Unit Owner Changes).
* XP, Level, and Bounty unit properties can now be modified by triggers.
* Banks now save/restore XP, learned abilities, and items.
* Message Window now includes a time stamp for each message.
* An actor event is now dispatched when a missile cannot hit its target.
* When loading documents with Battle.net-only dependencies, you will now be prompted to log in and download the dependency data, rather than failing to load.
* Game variants now automatically use the default melee variants for new maps, without requiring manual generation. This will not take effect for maps created prior to this patch.
* The Custom game variant is no longer automatically included when other non-default variants are defined.
* Increased the maximum recharge vital rate for heal effects.



Bug Fixes

* Battle.net
o Chat windows no longer vanish when exiting a multiplayer map or campaign mission.
o Fixed an issue where players would still receive toasts when their status was set to busy.

* Custom Games
o Default race in a game lobby is now properly set to Random.
o Players can now configure the lobby for 1v5 matches.
o The search functionality for map searches has been improved.
o Lobby hosts will now receive a toast when an invited player declines an invitation.
o Custom game lobbies will now remember the game mode chosen under a category.
o Fixed an issue where changing the category to "Custom" would default the teams to 5v3.
o Fixed an issue where custom maps could not be reported from the map preview screen.

* Gameplay
o General
+ If a unit loads into a transport, missiles targeting it will no longer target similar units in the area.
+ Structures damaged during construction will no longer count towards structures lost.
+ Fixed an issue where builders waiting for an area to clear could block units trying to leave the area.
+ Fixed an issue with inventory drop range checks.
+ Fixed an issue that, in certain cases, allowed a command to be issued that did not appear on the command card
o Interface
+ Queue tooltips now display information about what is in progress.
+ Fixed an issue where the back button would not always return players to the score screen properly.
o Terran
+ Marines trained at multiple Barracks will now prefer a Barracks with a Reactor over one with a Tech Lab or no attachment.
+ SCVs will now load into the closest Command Center if multiple are within range.
o Zerg
+ Creep now recedes properly when an AI-controlled Hatchery, Lair, or Hive is destroyed.

* StarCraft II Editor
o The Player Leaves Game event now fires when a player leaves or they are defeated/victorious.
o Loading screen progress bar option now works when using Melee loading screen type.
o Test Document now works properly on maps with Battle.net-only dependencies.
o Publishing a new file using Major revision will now properly set the document version to 1.0.
o Publish dialog now properly remembers the Show Real Name setting from previous publish.
o File preview panel now displays author's real name if that option was set during publishing.
o The Import module will now allow importing an override Assets.txt file.
o Undoing a terrain object modification will now also undo associated terrain changes.
o Editor will display document text from another locale if no text for the active locale exists.
o Copying points with custom models will display the model properly on the pasted point.
o It is no longer possible to have multiple default variants in the Game Variants dialog.
o Removed icon support for attribute and variant definitions, as Battle.net does not display these.
o Fixed issues with invalid map bounds when creating 32x32 maps.
o Fixed issues with poor performance in the Terrain Editor when scroll bars are visible.
o Fixed issues with drag-and-drop in Trigger Editor when tracking is not enabled.
o Fixed an issue that would cause a crash if multiple unit forms had too many abilities.
o Fixed an issue with temporary publish names in the Publish dialog still verifying the original name.
o Fixed an issue with the Unit Manipulates Item trigger.
o Fixed excessive delays on some systems when saving files using the Smaller Files option, and also when publishing Locked files.
o Fixed preview panel display in Terrain Editor palettes.
o Fixed performance issues in Terrain Editor when modifying terrain with many road tiles on the map.
o Fixed initial display of variables in the Trigger Debugging Window.
o Fixed generated script for built-in attribute values, which caused them to not be accessed properly.
o Fixed action list when modifying a Custom Script action without sub-views enabled.
o Fixed loading map dependency data.
o Fixed an issue where loading complex bank files would cause the client to disconnect from Battle.net.

* Technical Issues
o Fixed an issue where unplugging headphones could cause the game to freeze.
o Fixed an issue where XP systems running with Unicode characters enabled could prevent a player from starting a multiplayer game.
 #148939  by Eric
 Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:06 am
Ultras are awesome, just that the tech path to get to them takes too freakin long. :P
 #148953  by SineSwiper
 Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:32 am
How is it possible to have any sort of strategy when they make major changes to the game like this? Changing zealot build time? Removing abilities from Ultralisks? Major tank damage changes?

Is this still in beta?
 #148958  by Shrinweck
 Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:19 am
Didn't they do the same thing with WC3? I think they're trying to tweak it until it's as 'perfect' as the original.
 #148961  by SineSwiper
 Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:31 pm
You seriously calling these things tweaks? These are major nerfs.
 #148966  by Don
 Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:44 pm
I remember David Sirlin once wrote that MvC2 was like the closest thing to a balanced fighter because in the time it takes you to figure out who are the 6 or so most overpowered characters, it'd have taken long enough to come out with a sequel and then you got to go through the process again (which didn't happen, but certainly could have happened). I think that's how Blizzard does it. It is almost inherently impossible to balance things that are as diverse as what you find in Starcraft so they just shake it up every now and then, that way it'll take months before people figure out what the new overpowered stuff is and then they change it again.
 #148977  by SineSwiper
 Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:19 pm
MvC2? Balanced? Wow, seriously?! It didn't take people long to realize that a majority of the Capcom side of MvC2 sucks balls. Have you ever seen any of the Street Fighter characters used in a tourney?
 #148978  by Don
 Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:33 pm
SineSwiper wrote:MvC2? Balanced? Wow, seriously?! It didn't take people long to realize that a majority of the Capcom side of MvC2 sucks balls. Have you ever seen any of the Street Fighter characters used in a tourney?
It didn't take long for people to figure out Cable was overpowered or whatever sure, but it took a while to narrow down the last 3 or so characters you might switch around to keep your opponent guessing and their respective matchups. He's saying in the time it takes you to figure out this there could've been say a MVC2 turbo edition if you go by the way Capcom used to go about things and that'd obviously shake things up so you got to go back trying to figure everything out again. Of course MvC2 wasn't actually balanced, but it actually took a while before people figured out all the plausible matchups you could go up against. I didn't play the game much but I think there was like 6-8 characters people consider actually competitive, and since you pick 3 out of those 6-8 characters there's a lot of combinations to go through.