Went to the Heat/Clipper game yesterday

[Don]

I went to contribute in the fight against evil, and the Clippers won. There were a lot of LeBron fans in there but I guess that's the problem when you're the Clippers. The view actually is far worse than the TV unless you pay for an expensive seat, but obviously you're there for the environment. That said I don't think this is something I'd do unless it's for a good cause. It's a real pain to get in or out of the Staples Center since it's in the middle of LA downtown.

[Zeus]

Yeah, I was at the convention centre a couple of times for E3 and it's fucking brutal in and out of there.

Fight against evil, huh? THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS TAKING LESS MONEY TO PLAY TOGETHER IN HOPES OF BEING ABLE TO COMPETE FOR YEARS TO COME. THEY SHOULD BE SHOT!

[Don]

I'm not sure how you missed the memo, but LeBron is now The Villian. There's a Nike commercial about him ruining everyone's days and stuff like trashing a basketball court people were playing on. It's his new image.

[Shrinweck]

Haha, my co-worker last night actually commented on that last night. He said that never before has a sports star gone from being so loved to being so hated recently except for maybe Vick. No one ever really loved OJ, right?

[Don]

The LeBron transformation thing reads like the plot from professional wrestling, except it's real.

Also, it's not like he committed a crime or even did anything illegal. I'd say LeBron really needs a lesson in media relationship, since he's saying exactly the wrong thing unless his goal was to get everyone mad at him.

[SineSwiper]

Haha, my co-worker last night actually commented on that last night. He said that never before has a sports star gone from being so loved to being so hated recently except for maybe Vick. No one ever really loved OJ, right?

Even Vick is getting acceptance in recent months. It took some doing to get him back into football again, but he's playing too good to be vilified, even with that dogfighting scar on him. It seems like the guy is genuinely ashamed of his mistake. Good for him; maybe just this once the prison system actually works.

(Of course, this is based on a SI article I read when I was waiting for two hours at the doctor's office, and I don't even really watch sports.)

[Zeus]

No one ever really loved OJ, right?

Huh? OJ was one of the most recognized sport stars of the 80s. He was the first running back to break the 2000 yard barrier which gained him notoriety outside of Buffalo and had a bit of a lovable goof image as an actor, particularly after the Naked Gun movies. One of the reasons his trial garnered so much attention was because he was so well known (his O.J. name helped a lot).

[Zeus]

I'd say LeBron really needs a lesson in media relationship, since he's saying exactly the wrong thing unless his goal was to get everyone mad at him.

Not at all, everything he's done since The Decision has been calculated. Kinda smart, actually, from an endorsement and league point of view. It wouldn't surprise me if the NBA and the Heat were involved in more than just a passing manner in all this.

[Don]

This isn't the WWF here where you're supposed to have a bad guy. Sure it might be good for the league during the regular season since that adds some drama but it's not good for LeBron's reputation. So unless he decided he was going to sacrifice his own reputation for the good of the league I highly doubt that.

[Zeus]

This isn't the WWF here where you're supposed to have a bad guy. Sure it might be good for the league during the regular season since that adds some drama but it's not good for LeBron's reputation. So unless he decided he was going to sacrifice his own reputation for the good of the league I highly doubt that.

Sacrifice what rep? The entire freakin' country labeled him the villain all because he decided to use the unsolicited hype around his decision to raise $2 million for the Boys and Girls Club of America. "THAT MOTHERFUCKER USING HIS CELEBRITY TO RAISE MONEY FOR YOUNG KIDS, HE SHOULD FUCKING BE SHOT". That's what everyone, including many people here, were basically saying with their actions. For once in the last decade (or more) we've seen an athlete use his celebrity in an unselfish way for charity and we lambaste him. Why the hell should any other celebrity ever be so unselfish with their rep ever again? Your kids may see someone do something like this in the future but it ain't gonna happen in your lifetime again.

And before you say "he wanted all this PR", look at the string of argument which started this thread. His rep has been nothing but dragged through the mud ever since he announced the whole The Decision special. He coulda pulled out to save his rep but he didn't, he made a commitment and stuck to it knowing he'd be labeled the villain in a lot of the country based on the reaction to the whole announcement of The Decision. And yet everyone outside of Miami still considers what he did to be selfish and self-promoting.

As we've been proving with this entire thread, he sure as shit ain't benefiting personally from all the attention (the Nike ad isn't exactly increasing his rep; and don't for a second think that there wouldn't be another ad campaign with their golden boy if this didn't happen). The only people benefitting are, strangely, the league overall and the opposing teams, which are seeing huge gates when he comes into town (such as the sad-sack Clippers, as you proved; they've basically been the red-headed step-child of LA from the moment they came into the league). Amazingly, Bosh and Wade have escaped most of the ire of the idiots since they signed, it all seems like it's directed at James.

And again, what the fuck did any of those three do wrong? They took less money to play together to increase their chances of success. They didn't break any contracts, didn't sit out waiting to be traded, didn't sulk, didn't give up on their old teams, didn't do anything but earn their right to free agency after being good soldiers for their teams for 7 years (don't listen to Gilbert, he's just trying to deflect pressure off of his team). And don't forget, Bosh played for us in Toronto so I should be "personally offended". But I can't blame the man, he earned the right to do what he wanted to and was a great player for Toronto. He's still one of my fav NBA players.

[Don]

If you don't understand why people hate LeBron you're more gullible than he is. All his stuff is just done for publicity stunts, and while this is nothing new, he somehow manages to offend everyone in his publicity stunts. Did you catch the tweet LeBron did after Cavs lost 55 points and now he's saying it wasn't directed at the Cavs, he just wanted people to know that Karma is a b**** and God is everywhere because it's a good quote immediately after the Cavs lost by 55? You think anyone's going to look at that and say "Wow LeBron is brilliant! He sure fooled us!" When he made The Decision everyone figured he was going to say he'll stay with the Cavs because no one would be insane enough to do anything else, so the whole fundraising thing looked pretty cool. But since that wasn't what he did people look at the fundraising as a mere coverup for humiliating his team on national TV, which is probably true.

LeBron isn't some kind of marketing super genius. People criticized him for not shaking hands with the other team last year after he lost, and maybe that's unfair but it wasn't some calculated move to get people to talk about him. LBJ's advisors appear to be his groupies from high school so he's probably not getting very good advice from them, and this is a relatively common problem with young sports superstars.

[Zeus]

That's a LeBron hater talking, plain and simple. You're forcing your personal view into this. With the tweet, James was making a dig at Gilbert after he went off on him and called him a quitter in the playoffs after he signed with Miami, nothing more. Gilbert started that war and LeBron is just sayin' "keep it up, idiot, and see what happens?". You don't think he took it personally that the owner of the team that he poured 7 years of his effort into all of a sudden comes out and says "you're a quitter and you never tried"? If I were in his shoes I would certainly feel that way after that PR stunt by the owner to deflect bad press / pressure off of his team now in shambles by saying things that would be considered libel in court. He makes one small comment on his Shitter account and all of a sudden he's an evil fuck? That's bordering on hypocrisy if you don't display some serious venom towards Gilbert as well.

And then you try and tell me that because the guy doesn't do what everyone expects him to do, the fundraiser becomes a coverup all of a sudden? So what if he did decide to stay with Cleveland and do what everyone thinks he should do (stay with the smaller market team instead of leaving for the big market team), is it then perfectly OK? That's nothing more than a double-standard being imposed on him. "You do what we want you to do or you're an evil fuck", that's basically what you're saying. C'mon, man, you can't honestly think that.

And if there's one thing that's absolutely constant about any sports athlete aside from the extremely few is that they don't want bad publicity. What the hell does James have to gain from being the villain? Endorsements? He's chock full of those already and destroying his clean image will only hurt that as Tiger has proven. Notoriety? He's the most recognizable athlete in the sport and one of the most recognizable in the country, if not most of the Western Hemisphere. There's zero to gain from this for him other than "whatever, let's go with it, at least let the league benefit since I can't do anything about it". And for a guy who had arguably the best image in the game before that, it's not like his "posse" was hurting before. You think that there could be that severe a turnabout in that respect overnight? No chance.

Don't for a second think I'm a LeBron fan. I am pretty neutral on him as an athlete in terms of personal feeling. I just don't get all this animosity that was really not of his doing in any way.

[Julius Seeker]

In NBA, we all know who the real villain is...

[Imakeholesinu]

Hockey is much more entertaining.

[Shrinweck]

Ugh, they're sports. To some, continental drift is more entertaining.

[Flip]

Hockey is much more entertaining.

Here is my hockey rant. Its a sloppy game. I know how to play and some of the rules/strategy, but i would def say im only a casual fan. As a casual fan, hockey is NOT more entertaining to watch. They turn the puck over all the time and most scores are on ugly rebounds where you happen to be in the right spot at the right time. I know it takes skill and awareness to be in that spot, but i cant think of any other sport where turnovers are so common place and accepted. Turnovers in football and basketball are a big deal. I like structured sports where there isnt a huge cluster fuck around the net and you hope it goes in. Soccer is similar.

[Zeus]

Hockey is much more entertaining.

Here is my hockey rant. Its a sloppy game. I know how to play and some of the rules/strategy, but i would def say im only a casual fan. As a casual fan, hockey is NOT more entertaining to watch. They turn the puck over all the time and most scores are on ugly rebounds where you happen to be in the right spot at the right time. I know it takes skill and awareness to be in that spot, but i cant think of any other sport where turnovers are so common place and accepted. Turnovers in football and basketball are a big deal. I like structured sports where there isnt a huge cluster fuck around the net and you hope it goes in. Soccer is similar.

It's not a clusterfuck, it just looks that way if you don't know what a cycle or the trap are.

And the reason soccer and hockey have so many turnovers is 'cause unlike the rest of the games, there's little stoppage. Football is 95% preparing and 5% executing. Basketball is played 80% of the time in a half-court set-up with few steal attempts. Hockey is a very similar sport except it's a lot easier to cause a turnover 'cause of the stick and checking. There is a half-court setup style thing in hockey but only really during powerplays. When it's 5-on-5 it's all about the cycle.