The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • I played Watson

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #153246  by Kupek
 Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:02 pm
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We (me and the other guy) were polling the audience for answers, so really we just tried to get to the buzzer first. Our scores are not indicative of how we would do in a real game - I only got one question entirely on my own, beating out Watson to the buzzer. Watson beat us soundly in the end, it got tripped up in a tennis category in the beginning.

We hosted a conference up in the Yorktown building, and the main auditorium still has the Jeopardy set. As a guest lecture in the conference, we got Eddie Epstein from the Watson research team (he did the systems work - parallelizing the computations and getting response time down to an average of two seconds) to give a talk. This was a demo before his presentation. To my surprise, only one guy volunteered. The conference organizers volunteered me since I told them I'd love to do it. It was so cool.
 #153249  by Lox
 Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:35 pm
That's really awesome. Learn anything interesting from his talk?
 #153253  by Eric
 Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:49 am
If only I knew how to photoshop, the fun I'd have with these pics. :>
 #153259  by Zeus
 Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:38 am
That musta been a blast, Kup!

Of course, Leonodis in a dress shirt and glasses? Man, you just ruined everything :-)
 #153262  by Don
 Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:38 pm
I'm guessing people are reluctant to volunteer to play against a machine that can chew you up and make you look like a fool especially after it has already proved it can do that with the best players in the world.

How often did you know the answer but wasn't able to buzz as fast as Watson? Does Watson dominate the buzzing speed? I still think for this to be a meaningful demonstration Watson should not be buzzing at speed faster than the fastest human. I'm not sure what speed is 'fair' but faster than any human sure isn't fair.
 #153263  by Shrinweck
 Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:34 pm
That's pretty amazing. All IBM ever does for my Dad is let him select crummy gifts like an umbrella :D

The human names together are the boss' name for the American Office on NBC. Meaningless but it made me smile.
 #153267  by Kupek
 Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:48 pm
I could have torn off my shirt, kicked over the monitor and yelled about where we were, but I probably would have lost my job. And I like my job.

I think most of the reluctance came from the fact that very few of the conference attendees were Americans and native English speakers. I'm terrible at Jeopardy, but I can still recognize correct answers a decent amount of the time. Since so many of the answers involve both word-play and American pop-culture and history, some of my colleagues said they didn't even understand the correct answers when they were said. And these are very smart people.

I never knew the answer before buzzing in. Timing the buzz and thinking about what the answer is at the same time is really, really hard. Hard to the point that no one really does it - good players don't buzz in when they know the answer, they buzz in when they know they know the answer. That is, they buzz in when they know they can figure out the answer. Then they have a few seconds after a successful buzz to come up with the correct answer. I did this on the one answer I got completely on my own: I recognized I could figure it out, won the buzz, and thought it through afterwards. Watson doesn't do this: it only buzzes in when it is confident of the answer. There were several times during the game when it was not confident enough in its answer to buzz in.

Keep in mind that high-level Jeopardy play is all about the buzzer. When good players are playing against each other, they all know the answers. It's a game of who can buzz in first. Making Watson have human reaction time would actually not work. Human reaction time is about 250 milliseconds. According to Epstein, the best players can buzz in 20 milliseconds after they're allowed to. How is that possible? They anticipate when they will be able to buzz in based on how close Trebek is to the end of stating the question - their brain says "go" before they're allowed to buzz in. In order for Watson to play like that, it would need to do the same thing humans do: anticipate when it will be allowed to buzz in based on what is being said, and schedule the buzz accordingly. But that was outside of the scope of the Watson project; it does not do any speech processing. It's possible, to do, of course, and I would be interested in seeing it, but it would require a lot more work.

Watson and humans are doing different things. Humans spend the question-statement time figuring out when to buzz in, and then use the few seconds between a successful buzz and being asked to respond to figure out the answer. Watson spends the question-statement time figuring out the answer - it received the question in electronic text form - and only buzzes in when it is confident in its answer.

A lot of the algorithm stuff Epstein talked about is in this paper: Building Watson: An Overview of the DeepQA Project. They have done preliminary tests with medicine, and it's not quite there yet. But I think it will get there. We saw the confidence Watson had in answers on tv, but we did not see the evidence it used to arrive at those answers and that confidence. Used in a real setting, it can do that. It can give a list of possible answers, its confidences, and the evidence it used. Medicine is the first domain they're looking at, and I think it could be very useful. Because it gives its evidence, humans can always reason through it and see if they agree. If they do, great. If they don't, they ignore it.
 #153270  by Don
 Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:09 pm
I'm pretty sure Watson is still much faster than the fastest human when it buzzes in after it thinks it knows the answer, even if it doesn't plan on use the few seconds you have to further refine its search. If this is not the case it would not have beaten the best human players since like you said pretty much all the top guys know all the answers already.
 #153273  by Shellie
 Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:49 pm
That Michael dude looks like Jeff Lewis from "Flipping Out"

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 #153356  by kali o.
 Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:02 am
Someone really needs to photoshop this...someone step up. I can see it now, I'll even provide the caption: "Humans - 1, A.I. - 1. Your move, Watson."
 #153358  by bovine
 Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:20 am
kali o. wrote:Someone really needs to photoshop this...someone step up. I can see it now, I'll even provide the caption: "Humans - 1, A.I. - 1. Your move, Watson."
It already says dink on the screen in the background. No human can improve upon that kind of comedy.
 #153362  by Flip
 Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:06 am
Very cool stuff. Even the computer on easy in the original NES version beats me...
 #153377  by Zeus
 Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:10 pm
Kupek wrote:I could have torn off my shirt, kicked over the monitor and yelled about where we were, but I probably would have lost my job. And I like my job.
Yeah, probably. But MAN that would have been one of the biggest viral videos on the Internet....and would have made all the Shriners very, very proud of you :-)
Kupek wrote:And these are very smart people.
Personally, I have a higher standard for the word "smart" than most. Being extraordinarily good at one or two things but barely being able to find a door to get out of the house in the morning does not make you smart. But that's another argument that'll more than take over this thread, so I'll stop here
Kupek wrote:We saw the confidence Watson had in answers on tv, but we did not see the evidence it used to arrive at those answers and that confidence. Used in a real setting, it can do that. It can give a list of possible answers, its confidences, and the evidence it used. Medicine is the first domain they're looking at, and I think it could be very useful.
And that's what I was sayin' before. The task they gave Watson in playing Jeopardy was just a tech demo. I'm dyin' to see where they end up going with technology like that.
 #153407  by Kupek
 Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:23 pm
My argument was that playing Jeopardy requires an intimate familiarity with the English language and a pretty good grasp of American culture and history. My colleagues from Taiwan, Brazil, Turkey and India don't have that. Across the board, their English is excellent, but there's a difference between being fluent in a second language and being native fluent.
 #153409  by Shrinweck
 Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:08 pm
If your definition of being smart doesn't include speaking multiple languages well and working at one of the most powerful tech companies in the world to the point where you've flown out to a foreign country for a conference then I don't even know what the fuck to say :P

The questions behind Jeopardy and Watson aren't common sense and are deeply rooted in our culture and expecting people to know about our culture is as silly as expecting us to know the intricacies of theirs.
 #153419  by Zeus
 Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:49 am
Shrinweck wrote:If your definition of being smart doesn't include speaking multiple languages well and working at one of the most powerful tech companies in the world to the point where you've flown out to a foreign country for a conference then I don't even know what the fuck to say :P
That's a good start, yes, but a smart person it does not make you
 #153420  by Zeus
 Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:51 am
Kupek wrote:My argument was that playing Jeopardy requires an intimate familiarity with the English language and a pretty good grasp of American culture and history. My colleagues from Taiwan, Brazil, Turkey and India don't have that. Across the board, their English is excellent, but there's a difference between being fluent in a second language and being native fluent.
Oh, for sure. All IQ and trivia tests of any kind are very biased towards their cultures. And Jeopardy is especially discriminatory towards those who did not grow up in the culture. The idiosyncrasies in the language is completely lost.
 #154545  by SineSwiper
 Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:51 pm
Actually, I didn't know fsck formatted HDs. Goes to show how little I format HDs.