Mass Effect 3

[kali o.]

Spoiler: show

The fact of the matter is that nothing suggests the story ends there while something suggests a continuation. You want to talk stomping on him when he's unconscious? How many opportunities have the Reapers had to finish him in equally hopeless scenarios? An indoctrinated Shepard makes for a much better weapon then merely ending his life. His survival in London is more likely because he has been down there the entire time than magically spirited himself to the conduit after choosing to destroy the reapers. Remember that he's injured, even in an indoctrination ending.

Your ideas about the ending continuously ignore the fact that choosing synthesis or controlling the reapers mean the reapers have won in that they still exist in one form or another to carry out their work. I'm back to thinking the entire Normandy escape and crash was a dream in this scenario because I find that just as plausible as this weak ass ending where the relays explodes, destroys the Sol system (which it would, the relay is in our solar system), and ends life as we know it any way. The Stargazer scene is meaningless since it's so far in the future that Shepard isn't an entity as much as title, suggesting a massive passage of time. It's there as a "Life goes on in some form" ending, not as something that proves the crash actually happened.

It's repeatedly called back to that it's impossible for machines and organics to coexist. It's referred to as the perfection (order) of the machines and the chaos of the organics on multiple occasions. Endings resulting in coexisting are a lie resulting in our ultimate defeat where organics basically become reaper slaves.

That's a period of months on the script leak, more than enough time for a huge ass company to change the direction of the ending.

Clearly there isn't enough conclusive information or there wouldn't be a debate in the first place. I'm tired of being talked to in a condescending tone so I'm probably not going to reply to you any further on this matter. I have my next surgery in a week and I have better shit to do with my time then get talked down to on the fucking Internet. You've always had issues with disagreeing with people without resorting to being a bully and I'm not going to further feed into this habit of yours by enabling you.

Hmmm....

Spoiler: show

See that's what it all boils down to -- something else makes more sense than what it is. Sorry, but that's not a viable explaination for a piece of shit ending. It's postive thinking, but that's it. For a company that lost one of it's main writers during ME2, changed the plot for ME3, had their script leaked in November and clearly used shitty logic (ie: the whole idea of a Catalyst+unknown weapon) already -- occam's razor applies. Rushed and/or incompetent.

As to the Stargazer, you are missing the point -- again. If the crash of the Normandy did NOT happen as you suggest, then you are forced to explain the Stargazer scene, WHICH CLEARLY USES THE SAME CELESTIAL CONFIGURATION AS THE SUPPOSED FAKE LANDING SCENE. I mean, is that clear what I am saying?

*shrug* Learn the difference between me poo-pooing an idea I think is entirely stupid and me thinking you are stupid. There may be some correlation, perhaps, but if so I am not verbalizing it. I do think you are whiney though now, so grats.

I've talked you into a corner. You cannot successfully explain stargazer under your theory -- sorry that counts as "bullying" in your eyes. No matter what Bioware does, we are left with an ending that, as it exists on it's own, is complete shit and absolutely insulting to anyone that bought the retail game. That's a fact 99% of us will agree on.

Good luck with your surgery.

[Alec]

I say this as an easy-going, impartial third party:

kali, you have been a condescending asshole for this entire thread.

Nothing personal, just observing.

[kali o.]

I say this as an easy-going, impartial third party:

kali, you have been a condescending asshole for this entire thread.

Nothing personal, just observing.

I question your bias, when I think the game/ending is utter shit and you don't. You also seem pretty quick to label yourself in order to support your points...you've done it twice already, that seems a little self serving. You can feel free to point out a single spot where I am condenscending though...if it's a spoiler, feel free to frame it. Writing is nice -- it allows perfect and accurate quotations (and try not to pick anything from the no sleep posts).

See, I am not subtle. If I wanted to actually do that, I would say something like:

"Well, since you are stupid enough to draw make-believe conclusions from thin air, I suppose I can understand why you are arbitrarily deciding I am being conscending. Unlike Bioware, you don't need 40,000 depressed & deluded fans on a forum to figure out what the fuck I am really trying to say".

[Shrinweck]

I think you have confused the idea that you have written in a condescending tone with the idea of being a completely mean piece of shit, which we are all capable of. If I thought you were being nasty for the sake of being nasty, I would never have responded to a single post you have made. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all and I'm going to adhere to that concept if you're going to keep baiting. I don't feel the need to go through every post you have made to make judgments about your tone in every separate instance because it has been so lovingly peppered throughout.

The bottom line here is that I like you and reading your posts the majority of the time, but I'm not going to put up with being consistently put down in the civil discussion that I was looking to have.

[kali o.]

I think you have confused the idea that you have written in a condescending tone with the idea of being a completely mean piece of shit, which we are all capable of. If I thought you were being nasty for the sake of being nasty, I would never have responded to a single post you have made. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all and I'm going to adhere to that concept if you're going to keep baiting. I don't feel the need to go through every post you have made to make judgments about your tone in every separate instance because it has been so lovingly peppered throughout.

I can do the same thing, then -- ie: You tell me what I *really* think. Telling me my comparison is silly. Tell me I am complaining for the sake of complaining.

I pulled those from one post - why be vague. If *I* wanted to be a whiny bitch looking to be upset, I could take the same stance you are now...but that ain't me. No need to read between the lines here, it is pretty clear what I am saying about you at this very moment. So man up princess. Or do yourself a favor and don't reply if you found everything proceeding this calling out post "condenscending". I write a certain way and that isn't changing. When I want to be an asshole, you will absolutely know, especially when you yourself derail the thread with a public pity party.

[Shrinweck]

Well I'm sorry for finding a comparison that you hadn't provided any basis for as silly.

If you're getting "whiny bitch" from anything I have posted then have a blast nitpicking my posts because you're not coming off as anything other than just another Internet Tough Guy. If you really think that anywhere here I have been telling you what you think then I sincerely apologize because that was not my intention. I can say without a doubt the one time you asked me not to tell you what to think, I wasn't. I was deriving meaning from loose statements about the quality of the game. Trying to have a discussion here. Not a schoolyard argument. The idea here was to point out why I won't be participating in an argument with someone constantly putting me down. Not to complain.

Also, the mention of my surgery was not an "I win" pity party button, it was my intention to provide further reasoning for me having better things to do. Which obviously I haven't today. Fuck me.

[kali o.]

Well I'm sorry for finding a comparison that you hadn't provided any basis for as silly.

If you're getting "whiny bitch" from anything I have posted then have a blast nitpicking my posts because you're not coming off as anything other than just another Internet Tough Guy. If you really think that anywhere here I have been telling you what you think then I sincerely apologize because that was not my intention. I can say without a doubt the one time you asked me not to tell you what to think, I wasn't. I was deriving meaning from loose statements about the quality of the game. Trying to have a discussion here. Not a schoolyard argument. The idea here was to point out why I won't be participating in an argument with someone constantly putting me down. Not to complain.

Also, the mention of my surgery was not an "I win" pity party button, it was my intention to provide further reasoning for me having better things to do. Which obviously I haven't today. Fuck me.

Whiny bitch=You complaining about me being condenscending. You will take your ball and go home. Which is exactly what you said - I did not make this up. I had the good fortune (because I honestly wouldn't otherwise notice) to find easy examples of you doing the same thing you were complaining about...defacto I "win" as far as verbal fighting goes. Lol.

Pity party was actually both the whining and the surgery. Convenient timing to bring it up, at least, but fair enough.

And finally, no you can't resist. So don't bluff next time. Back on topic, it also looks like the party is over for the Indoctrination crowd...or at least the hope that the ending is cleared up/expanded. The latest Behind The Scene's "interview" that Geoff Keighley was doing sealed the deal. There were some good pics too, off deleted content and notes, but it got pulled before I could save em (I'll give you the thread where they talk about it though, for like 30 pages). For example, on the plot map it actually had the note "like end of the Matrix movie"...lol. Here are the released quotes since I am not paying 3 bucks for the full thing:

Spoiler: show

Original thread:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic ... /9999272/1

Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
"Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"

Casey on after Mass Effect 3
"Whatever we do [with DLC] would likely happen before or during the events of Mass Effect 3, not after"

On delaying the game
In march 2011, he also faced a roomful of Mass Effect developers who expressed concern about hitting the promised holiday release date... New release date set for March 2012. After much deliberation, the CAT mission (or rather, the Prothean mission) had to be removed from the set of tasks. The missions would later be completed as post-release content"

Casey on the End Boss
'We had the final fight with the Illusive man in the game, but it just felt very Video Gamey. It didnt fit in with the themes. And really, is there a point of the end boss if only for the sake of an end boss?'

The article also states 'Although art was created for this sequence, it was ultimately dropped because it felt too predictable to end the series on a massive boss battle.'

On Tali's Face
We eventually decided that she gives you a memento of her pictures, but the team was throwing around a lot of pictures and designs until we decided on something and said "Yup, that's her".

On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up until the end of 2011. Martin sheen's voice-over session for the illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).

Edit: Removed my comment on them expanding the ending so it makes sense. Clearly one quote negates that possibility.
Edit 2: Managed to find one partial cap of the notes page, that someone made a lol pic from. Sure you can find more.

Image:

Spoiler: show

[Alec]

Nothing to do with bias. Nothing personal. Just an observation.

[Eric]

[bovine]

After beating this game a second time.... It's the same goddamn ending no matter what you pick?!?!?!? UUUrrrrgggghhhhhhh.

[Shrinweck]

There's a few seconds that are different if you

Spoiler: show

kill the synthetics

but yeah.