Microsoft ready to sodomize consumers?

[Zeus]

$99 console with a 2-year forced subscription fee of $15/month? FUCK YOU

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/122/1224179p1.html

[Shrinweck]

Sounds like my cell phone plan. Not that crazy of a marketing tactic. The trouble here is in it totaling to more than it would otherwise. If the subscription service offered something substantially more than it does now than I could see this being very positive. I would definitely be willing to buy a console if it was this cheap and the subscription offered me more than just the ability to play with 12 year olds who want to call me a faggot. If this has something to do with their music service, then screw it. I have no interest in music in a digital form that isn't carried on something that offers the (comparative) permanence of a computer.

[Zeus]

The article mentions that it'll include more things. And Microshaft, as greedy as they are, aren't that stupid. So I say it becomes a hybrid Xbox Gold-PSN Plus thing with a few more added things. You'll likely be getting 2-3 games a month (mostly Arcade but could be some full-game or even an Indie here or there) for "free play" and expiry dates, just like the PSN does, along with some free DLC for sponsered games (think Skyrim or Grand Theft Auto 5), avatar items, themes, etc. And if they follow Sony's lead, it'll actually be half-decent games (unlike when PSN was free over that two-month window....) so people who think that spending $5 a day at Starbucks for a large coffee with frothed cream will look at this and say "wow, what a good deal!".

Then they'll probably toss you some more "value" in shit like a Crackle-Plus (more cool and new stuff in Crackle so it's better than Netflix....like Iron Man 1....), an MLB/NFL/NHL TV subscription(s) (may be slightly limited), or other "additional services" they offer but no one other than the odd person per state would even consider. That way you'll have the 0.001% of the population sheep who write for the review websites do some silly math where they can somehow justify the exhobonent additional cost a forced 2-year subscription will bring.

But anyone who passed Grade 3 math can prove that well over 98% of the population wouldn't even use 25% of that "value". I mean, it's only $100 less than the bundle without the forced subscription. You take that away from the additional $360 in subsciption fees you'll be forced to pay over the two years and you'll have a hard time convincing me that even half of the people here would be spending more than $260 on digital stuff over a two year period.

We're nerds and we won't come close to using up that "value". What do you think it's gonna be like when the grandparent who was given a list of things to buy for her grandson finds out from her son/daughter that it's gonna cost an additional $360 just for their kids to play the system the grandparent just got for them?

[Eric]

"Two years of the subscription fee in addition to the $99 console would add up to a total cost of $459. By comparison, Microsoft's current 4GB Kinect bundle is available for $299, and two years of Xbox Live costs $120." So the difference is like $30

Not really seeing a problem here, if you plan to play on live. You're paying an additional $30 for overall, but you're getting your system upfront for far less.

And they're even planning to throw in some fluff on top, I'm not sure why you're raging about this Zeus. X_X

[Zeus]

"Two years of the subscription fee in addition to the $99 console would add up to a total cost of $459. By comparison, Microsoft's current 4GB Kinect bundle is available for $299, and two years of Xbox Live costs $120." So the difference is like $30

Not really seeing a problem here, if you plan to play on live. You're paying an additional $30 for overall, but you're getting your system upfront for far less.

And they're even planning to throw in some fluff on top, I'm not sure why you're raging about this Zeus. X_X

You honestly think that by this Xmas season, when this deal is going to be available at the absolute earliest, the Kinect bundle is gonna be $300 with the Wii U comin' out at that price or less? No chance. Will go down at least $50, likely $100 as Microshaft will try to take some wind out of Nintendo's sail. Plus, not even the biggest sucker pays $60 a year for Live. I can get it for $1 a month every other month, it's right on the dashboard (my bud is in the middle of 2 months for $2 he bought to get a deal on Joe Danger last month; $2 to save $8, not a bad deal....). The 1 year subscriptions don't even exist IMO even when they go on sale at Costco (regularly).

That math is WAY off when you bring reality into the equation. When was the last time you bought a DVD/Blu Ray at MSRP? Try never otherwise you'd be payin' $40+ for each Blu, $30+ for each DVD. You're speakin' to an accountant/auditor here, you gotta use real numbers not some wishful thinking stuff :-)

[Eric]

You're an anomaly not your average shopper. Most people don't jump through that many hurdles to save money all the time.

[Shrinweck]

Ugh this is all just too annoying. With my 360 dead I don't think I'm going to buy another console in the forseeable future, especially with my latest computer upgrade in the next few months likely falling at around $900. Some day I'm going to have to choose between a 3DS and a PSP Vita. Maybe by then they'll be worth buying :D

[Oracle]

All this means is it'll be PC gaming or bust if consoles go this way (if they add this option as a CHOICE, and not the only way to go forward, then I don't think it will be that bad).

And if they kill PC gaming, I guess I won't be a gamer.

[Zeus]

You're an anomaly not your average shopper. Most people don't jump through that many hurdles to save money all the time.

Most people don't turn on their Xbox 360 and log onto Live? That's all it takes as a Free member to get a one to three month deal on Live, it's there ALL the time. The other methods I mentioned are simply walking into a store or, occasionally, lookin' at Kijiji. There are no crazy trading schemes to get Live for less than half price, it's right there in front of you. This is why I say you can't use the MSRP of Live in your math. In reality, much like DVDs and Blu Rays, it's far over and above what you would actually pay unless you're a complete and utter sucker when it comes to being a consumer.

[Zeus]

Ugh this is all just too annoying. With my 360 dead I don't think I'm going to buy another console in the forseeable future, especially with my latest computer upgrade in the next few months likely falling at around $900. Some day I'm going to have to choose between a 3DS and a PSP Vita. Maybe by then they'll be worth buying

You should consider getting another 360. It's damned cheap and is not dead at all. It's still selling really, really well (over 300k a month) and, at the price it's at with the volume and cheapness of the games, it's gonna have at least another year or two of solid, solid sales. Same with the PS3 which is starting to reach the price of good Blu Ray players. These aren't the Wii we're talking about, which just looked very outdated. There's honestly no reason for an Xbox 720 or PS4 right now.....and maybe not even next year. Wii U is an absolute requirement, Wii looked dated up to two years ago (Mario Galaxy 2 looked great). No one wants the new Microshaft or Sony system right now or in the near future aside from the manufacturers

The 3DS was a waste of money until about 6 months after release but with the price drop and volume of games being released now, it's actually not a bad choice. You can easliy find 3-5 great games for it. The Vita has given me ZERO reason to even think about it right now but wait 'til September and we'll see where the software stands

I just dropped $200 on a new video card and an additional 4GB of RAM (DDR2) on my 5-year old comp so I can play Diablo 3 at more than recommended settings and, hopefully, cover me for the next couple of years for most games. I'm gonna d'load Battlefield 3 and see how it runs as a test but I'm running in the 7+ range on everything right now so I'm hoping this upgrade will keep my comp going for at least another 5 years. It's crazy how cheap good hardware is right now.

[Zeus]

All this means is it'll be PC gaming or bust if consoles go this way (if they add this option as a CHOICE, and not the only way to go forward, then I don't think it will be that bad).

And if they kill PC gaming, I guess I won't be a gamer.

I don't think they're that stupid, I really don't....at least for next gen. What they're gonna do is try to get people to switch to digital distribution almost exclusively. That's a very, very slow process the vast majority still prefer physical discs and they're thinking they can keep the price the same but in 8-10 years that may change as we get a generation of people who didn't grow up with real purchases. Then you'll see your worst nightmare come true. And PCs will be right there with them as it's the same publishers and they already have a good distribution system with Steam plus others.

Come 8-10 years, I may have nothing more to physically collect

[Zeus]

Let the sodomization begin!

http://www.gamespot.com/news/microsoft- ... 60-6375386

[kali o.]

I am still not sure why you are pissy about this. If you plan to use Live! anyway, it's a good deal.

My only issue is the 360 deserved a price cut by now -- the HDD free model should be 99-149 anyway. The fact that it isn't is the only reason I've yet to replace mine (though to be honest, I'd just use it to play Culdcept Saga over and over and over).

The only way this would be a problem, for me, is if this was the ONLY pricing model. But it isn't. It is an option.

[Zeus]

I am still not sure why you are pissy about this. If you plan to use Live! anyway, it's a good deal.

My only issue is the 360 deserved a price cut by now -- the HDD free model should be 99-149 anyway. The fact that it isn't is the only reason I've yet to replace mine (though to be honest, I'd just use it to play Culdcept Saga over and over and over).

The only way this would be a problem, for me, is if this was the ONLY pricing model. But it isn't. It is an option.

Live is $5 a month, this requires a $15/month subscription for 2 years; that's an extra $260 over two years, not even close to the reduction in price.....and that's assuming you're dense enough to pay full price for Live. The math doesn't work...at all. And you're missing the point. It's not me or you who are gonna get duped into paying double or triple for the system plus Live over the two years. It's the grandmas and moms and young kids (don't kid yourself; 12 year-olds are allowed to buy Xboxs by their parents every day) who think they're getting a deal on this system that are gonna get hosed. That's why I'm pissed, they're preying on the consumers

[kali o.]

Live is $5 a month, this requires a $15/month subscription for 2 years; that's an extra $260 over two years, not even close to the reduction in price.....and that's assuming you're dense enough to pay full price for Live. The math doesn't work...at all. And you're missing the point. It's not me or you who are gonna get duped into paying double or triple for the system plus Live over the two years. It's the grandmas and moms and young kids (don't kid yourself; 12 year-olds are allowed to buy Xboxs by their parents every day) who think they're getting a deal on this system that are gonna get hosed. That's why I'm pissed, they're preying on the consumers

I always paid full price for live (packaged cards at best buy, etc), the few times I wanted it. It's not a question of being dense or being preyed, it's really just not caring enough to go hunting to save a few bucks. You are *unusual* zeus -- most people are impulse buyers. Besides, it is not nearly as "predatory" as you are pretending...

They are selling the $249 bundle for $99+2 years @ $15 per month x24 ($360) = $459.

$459 - $249 = $210.

$210 / 24 = $8.75

IF you want Live & IF you want the bundle, they are offering you a cheap way, up front. To get the same deal, you need to buy the bundle and care enough to make sure you pay $8.75 or less per month.

It will encourage impulse buys.

[Eric]

I said the same thing! It's like you're reading my mind X_X

[Shrinweck]

Agreeing with kali here. Also anyone at this point who is still, in this day and age, too careless to see the catch of buying this package deal deserves to learn their lesson somehow. I certainly didn't learn my lesson until I got caught in a similar deal which was ACTUALLY a scam.. luckily my scam only cost me $15.

[kali o.]

Agreeing with kali here. Also anyone at this point who is still, in this day and age, too careless to see the catch of buying this package deal deserves to learn their lesson somehow. I certainly didn't learn my lesson until I got caught in a similar deal which was ACTUALLY a scam.. luckily my scam only cost me $15.

See Eric? He's agreeing with Kali, NOT Eric. NOT YOU.

Stop stealing my ideas and writing them first.

[Don]

I fail to see how this is different any of those long term deals where they hope to convince you that you really need something for 2 years even though you really did not. And if you really need that stuff for 2 years it's probably a good deal. If you don't need it for the period of time you're under contract for, there are other ways to get the stuff without being locked in for such a long contract. I bought a 2 year subscription deal for EQ1 while I was still into the game and it was a great deal. Now if you bought it and quit the next month it's obviously a very bad deal but that's why you should ask yourself is it something you really want. WoW's annual pass is a very good deal if you plan on playing WoW for an year, and a terrible deal if you are not.

[Eric]

Agreeing with kali here. Also anyone at this point who is still, in this day and age, too careless to see the catch of buying this package deal deserves to learn their lesson somehow. I certainly didn't learn my lesson until I got caught in a similar deal which was ACTUALLY a scam.. luckily my scam only cost me $15.

See Eric? He's agreeing with Kali, NOT Eric. NOT YOU.

Stop stealing my ideas and writing them first.

It's like you're rubbing lemon on my paper cut, stop it!

[Shrinweck]

I definitely agreed about his point about Zeus being an anomalous shopper... I mean an unusual shopper.

[Zeus]

Live is $5 a month, this requires a $15/month subscription for 2 years; that's an extra $260 over two years, not even close to the reduction in price.....and that's assuming you're dense enough to pay full price for Live. The math doesn't work...at all. And you're missing the point. It's not me or you who are gonna get duped into paying double or triple for the system plus Live over the two years. It's the grandmas and moms and young kids (don't kid yourself; 12 year-olds are allowed to buy Xboxs by their parents every day) who think they're getting a deal on this system that are gonna get hosed. That's why I'm pissed, they're preying on the consumers

I always paid full price for live (packaged cards at best buy, etc), the few times I wanted it. It's not a question of being dense or being preyed, it's really just not caring enough to go hunting to save a few bucks. You are *unusual* zeus -- most people are impulse buyers. Besides, it is not nearly as "predatory" as you are pretending...

They are selling the $249 bundle for $99+2 years @ $15 per month x24 ($360) = $459.

$459 - $249 = $210.

$210 / 24 = $8.75

IF you want Live & IF you want the bundle, they are offering you a cheap way, up front. To get the same deal, you need to buy the bundle and care enough to make sure you pay $8.75 or less per month.

It will encourage impulse buys.

Why would you pay $5 a month for Live when you can get it for $1 a month right now?

[Eric]

Live is $5 a month, this requires a $15/month subscription for 2 years; that's an extra $260 over two years, not even close to the reduction in price.....and that's assuming you're dense enough to pay full price for Live. The math doesn't work...at all. And you're missing the point. It's not me or you who are gonna get duped into paying double or triple for the system plus Live over the two years. It's the grandmas and moms and young kids (don't kid yourself; 12 year-olds are allowed to buy Xboxs by their parents every day) who think they're getting a deal on this system that are gonna get hosed. That's why I'm pissed, they're preying on the consumers

I always paid full price for live (packaged cards at best buy, etc), the few times I wanted it. It's not a question of being dense or being preyed, it's really just not caring enough to go hunting to save a few bucks. You are *unusual* zeus -- most people are impulse buyers. Besides, it is not nearly as "predatory" as you are pretending...

They are selling the $249 bundle for $99+2 years @ $15 per month x24 ($360) = $459.

$459 - $249 = $210.

$210 / 24 = $8.75

IF you want Live & IF you want the bundle, they are offering you a cheap way, up front. To get the same deal, you need to buy the bundle and care enough to make sure you pay $8.75 or less per month.

It will encourage impulse buys.

Why would you pay $5 a month for Live when you can get it for $1 a month right now?

rofl, Zeus, normal people are not looking for or going to find $1 X-box live monthly subscriptions or jump through that many hurdles to do so.

They're gonna google it, and see this. http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-LIVE-Month-G ... B0029LJIFG

Or Walk into Walmart and see a card for similar price.

Or just do it via X-box Live's own built in subscription on the system with their credit card.

[Zeus]

What hoops? You turn on your Xbox and sign in and the very first thing you see in the big-ass box right in front of you is "2 months for $2". You're actually spending infinitely more time going online (or to Walmart), getting your code, then choosing "Redeem Code", punching into your Xbox, and unlocking a full year. This isn't some trick or scam I'm pulling, it's what Microshaft is offering to anyone who's a Free account and they're displaying it as big as they can as the very first thing you see when you turn on your system. It's not like you have to click through 7 layers of menu to see this or anything.

I can understand why so many people here don't see it: it's because you're already (over)paying for Live. It doesn't appear for the people they've already shafted as I never see it when I use a one-month card (still have a couple left from the GTA IV days) to get the Deal of the Week when it's a game I've been waiting for. But this deal has been on consecutively for the last 4 months or so and there's never more than a month in-between that offer over at least the last year. The other "expensive" offers are $3 or so a month inbetween the $1 a month price.

Really, paying $5 a month for Live is no different than walking into Futureshop and paying $40 for The Muppets ("old" releases are priced at the original MSRP, just saw it a couple weeks ago) when it's available for half that online (at retailers, not Ebay). The cheaper option is more readily available and actually easier to get.

This is why I keep saying you're getting shafted if you pay $5 a month for Live. It's less work and easier to get it cheaper if you just care to look

[Eric]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... -miserably

[Zeus]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... -miserably

That's a nice way of putting it. It really is a test phase for the Xbox 720 over and above everything else. They want to know if people care for something like this enough that it'll help them decide whether or not to buy a discounted 720 at launch while paying a little more over a 2 or 3 year period. The 360 has gone on sale enough (Black Friday it was $150 with a Kinect....sorry, $200 with a $50 Walmart gift card) and there are so many used ones that I don't think it'll have an enormous impact once people see the catch.

That probably also explains why it's only on sale in stores no one goes into or has within 400 miles of their home. They're trying to super-control this to ensure that when it gets sold, people know EXACTLY what they're getting into....plus they can do some research in their marketing bases (all company-branded stores are open for marketing purposes). There's no chance in hell they will be able to roll it out to Walmart and Target without some people getting screwed unless they fully prepare for it.

And I think anyone who responded above need to read the first point under the "why it can be a miserable failure" section of this article......