The Other Worlds Shrine

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  • So I downloaded SWTOR again

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #158917  by Don
 Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:23 pm
It didn't turn out to be as bad as I thought for a previous subscriber which speaks a lot about how bad the whole announcement was. Any artifact gear you had equipped is still equipped (it'll say authorized by previous subscription), and any character you've above the 2 limit is still there. You can still play them all (I was able to login with all of them). You just can't create any new ones, so if you had the foresight to create 8 characters while you had an active sub you can pretty much play almost the whole game. It's not like the endgame has anything worth paying for. In fact I'd recommend just subbing for one month and create 8 or 12 or whatever the maximum number of character is and then you get the whole meaningful part of the game (the story stuff) for $15, which is a pretty good deal. With 12 characters you probably can cover enough tradeskills anyway (12*2 = 24 crew skills), and while not being able to equip Artifact gear sort of sucks, you don't really need them for the story mode stuff and given your inability to actually do PvP there's relatively little incentive to twink your gear (the biggest motivation to twink gear is to bulldoze people in the 10-49 bracket). The stuff you unlock while subbed like cargo bay/inventory slot also stays unlock, so make sure you use your credits immeidately during your 1 month of sub time to unlock as much inventory space/cargo space as you possibly can. Your 500 CC for sub happens to be enough to buy either 2 more hotkey bars or 1 crew skill and that should round out your options pretty well. You'd be utterly incapable of doing anything beyond soloing but it's not like this game has anything worth playing beyond solo, and the overly restrictive limitation on PvP/FP/Operation combined with the fact that most of this stuff sucks means you'd never have to worry about it.

In some sense this F2P reminds me of EQ2 in that it's an epic fail both because of how restrictive is and how unrestrictive it is if you know all the loopholes. $15 for the whole 1-49 game is a surprisingly good deal. I'd argue it's too cheap. Yes technically you could either create 4 F2P accounts but you'd have to be a glutton for punishment to play the game with one hotkey bar (F2P only gets 1, preferred gets 2) and basically incapable of getting any gear better than quest greens, as some of the hard story battles will definitely chew you up if all you're wearing is green gear.

Here's how I'd recommend playing this game:

Download game
Sub for 1 month
Create the maximum number of characters possible, 1 for every archtype in the game and use the extras for whatever class looks interesting (i.e. if you want to be a Marauder and a Juggernaut, make 2 Sith Warriors).
Focus on earning money with whatever character you happen to play, unlocking as much stuff you can reasonably do so. I'd definitely buy inventory slots first because playing this game with 30 inventory slot is asking for pain. If you see anything interesting to unlock on Legacy use credits there too.
Use your 500 cartel coins either for 2 hotkey bars, the 3rd crew skill, or whatever looks interesting.

Now you cannot mail credits without a sub so before your sub runs out, you should try to distribute your money between all the characters that are expected to use them. In fact your low level character probably should have the most money if they're going to be just a crew skill shop, and remember that you can mail crafting ingredients including the obligatory money sink items to your alts. Basically you should have the character who can make money have the gathering skills and the characters who can't make money have the manufacturing skills (because all manufacturing components can be mailed), though with the artifact gear restriction it really doesn't take much money to do tradeskill since it takes 5 combines on average to learn how to make a blue.

Note that if for whatever reason you decided to buy an artifact equipment authorization, this really messes up your ability to allocate money because trying to make artifact level gear uses up a ton of credit and yet you cannot mail credits to yourself, so I don't recommend doing this. You really have no need for artifact gear given you're unlikely to be doing Operations, and PvP sucks not to mention you'll just get bulldozed by guys in Elite War Hero gear no matter what.

That said a key problem remains that if they simply locked all your characters above the limit of 2 you'd be screwed, though given the slow pace of everything in SWTOR I suspect it'll take a few months before any dev realizes this loophole and then a few more months before they put in a fix. There's definitely a risk here though.
 #158918  by Don
 Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:43 pm
It turns out being able to login with all your previous characters is indeed just incompetence from the dev part and is likely to be closed soon.

In light of that I wouldn't recommend spending any money on this at all, though if you want to bet that it'd take months before they finally get around stopping it you're welcome to try.

That said if you had subbed to this game before and had created placeholder characters, right now would be the best time to play them before they started locking the extra characters.
 #158919  by kali o.
 Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:35 pm
Don wrote:It turns out being able to login with all your previous characters is indeed just incompetence from the dev part and is likely to be closed soon.

In light of that I wouldn't recommend spending any money on this at all, though if you want to bet that it'd take months before they finally get around stopping it you're welcome to try.

That said if you had subbed to this game before and had created placeholder characters, right now would be the best time to play them before they started locking the extra characters.
I was going to tell you your whole post was based on a bug, but it looks like you beat me to it. lol

Did you know even emotes are "locked" for free to play... I didn't know that. No /cheer for your team mates :) Now don't get me wrong, I don't think F2P should be free (they should entice you to spend some money) but the things they monetized are so petty and desperate, it's just gonna turn people off. XP and Valor is also lower on F2P. XP...fine, but for valor, if you actually pay MORE to unlock WZs every week, you'll still gain with significant penalties.

lol...man.
 #158921  by Don
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:46 am
I don't think it's a bug. It's pretty hard to miss out on something as big as this and I saw a blurb saying they'll eventually want to charge money for this. My guess is that they haven't figured out how to actually charge you $X per each additional character slot (there isn't even an option to buy more character slots) so they don't want to lock your characters out until they figured out how to do that in fear of upsetting guys who are actually willing to pay more for character slots. Of course it's pretty puzzling that they basically monetized every ridiculous thing in the game and yet apparently didn't figure out how to charge $5 or $10 per character slot, and that's the one thing where people could be quite willing to pay for more.

I don't think the slower valor matters because the whole PvP thing is so restrictive you'll never actually play it without being subbed. If you're going to spend $10/month on PvP passes you might as well be subbed for that month. If I can only play 5 WZs a week, even if you get 1 valor level per WZ that's 8 weeks before you hit valor 40 so do we really care if it takes 8 weeks or 18 weeks to get there? Also, if you're not subbed, everything also costs more, including the amount of commendation needed to buy something. In particular, most of the expensive items (lightsaber, offhand, etc) are going to cost more than your commendation cap which means you can never buy them no matter what.

I'm thinking this could be a bait & switch, since I bet people will figure out the same thing I did here (sub one month, create 12 characters) and then just Bioware will just lock all but 2 characters up and ask you to pay $5 or $10 or whatever per character, and if not they at least have your $15 for the one month of sub without givin up much (since the one character you picked to finance the rest of your characters is likely a powerhouse class that can easily get to level 50 on F2P).
 #158922  by Shrinweck
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:59 am
I read a dev post on the topic some weeks ago - you'll have access to those slots but if you delete a character you lose the slot unless you start up again as a paying subscriber.
The post also mentioned that limiting non-subscribers to two characters instead of the twelve would be something that comes later and that you would be able to select which two characters to make active. If you sub for one month Bioware has already won since a certain amount of people will stay on or at the very least keep a steady cash of F2P goodies once in a while. It's already money they would have never seen otherwise.

Some people are thinking that they conspired to leave out buying additional character slots since this is a hot item and they just gave out all those free cartel coins to active subscribers. The popular assumption is that when they institute the limit properly they'll also allow people to purchase more character slots. This could also be a tactic to hook returning players to multiple characters at once.
 #158923  by Don
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:19 am
Yeah you don't get those spots back if you deleted those characters but currently if you have 8 or even 12 characters you can select one of them and log in the game with them and even play with all of them. I'm sure it won't last long but right now if you got the foresight to create a bunch of level 1 characters while you still had your sub you can play all of them for free and it's not like you need anything beyond the preferred status to do the story stuff, especially consider that you also have access to a ton of crew skills that'd allow you to easily outfit your alts. As long as you've one of each character for each archtype there's really no reason why you'd ever want to delete your character unless you already picked say an Assassin and then decided that you really wanted a Sith Sorcerer and it MUST be a Sith Sorcerer, not a Jedi counterpart. Even then, you got 12 characters to work with so if you know you really want both an Assassin and a Sorcerer you'd just create 2 Sith Inquisitors.

And let's be honest, $15 for the whole story is a very good deal. If SWTOR came out as a single player game for $15 and all you get is the 8 main story quests that'd be a great bargain. Now $15 for 2 out of the 8 story quest is not that great of a deal, especially given you're likely to start off with a character that can easily finish his story quest in this model where you've one guy funding the gear for your other 7 (Tankasin can easily get the money you need to finance all your other characters due to stealth being way overpowered in terms of doing dailys efficiently). Unless you really like a Sniper or Operative, there's just no reason to start with one as your main character given they're ill-suited for PvE at low gear level (cover/positional mechanism is a lost cause when you're solo), not to mention 3 out of the 4 Lightsaber wielding classes are probably the easiest characters to play in terms of getting to level 50 and completing the story quest. Sure you can say selling the whole single player game for $15 is still money they wouldn't have otherwise but if you look at the ridiculous F2P options you can tell their goal isn't trying to get this little money for a game like this. I mean they could package SWTOR as SWTOR offline for $30 and it'd still be a pretty decent RPG so there's no reason for them to aim for only $15, though of course the dev talk speaks them were indeed aiming for more than that.

I started playing on my trooper alt (I did not have the foresight to create a Jedi Consular or Smuggler alt though) but got bored halfway and my first companion makes me want to punch him in the face but knowing how the Republic story goes I'm pretty sure that'd never be an option. I mean I know none of the decision you make really matters but at least on the Empire side you can force choke the companion you don't like because that kind of behavior is totally normal for an Empire guy. Is any of the Republic story actually good? I only did the Jedi Knight one and it's pretty boring. I heard the trooper is supposed to have a good story, but I really don't like my companion. I enjoyed all 4 of the Empire main stories even though some of it is pretty cheesy/predictable, but at least you've the option of either being a good guy or just force choke every guy you run into.

I'm almost thinking they're leaving this loophole so that people will create 12 characters in one month and even spend money unlocking their cargo space/inventory space (I already regret playing a character with 30 spaces of inventory permanently unless I spend Cartel Coins) and then go 'haha, you can't have them now, better pay up!' and figure that it's more likely they'll get your money if you give people some time to actually pump money into making them viable.
 #158924  by Don
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:51 am
Random note: I don't know how well the Cartel market stuff sells on GTN but you can randomly select stuff like Minor XP Boost from quest rewards (25% more XP for 1 hour) and the cheapest one on GTN was 90K, so assuming these things sell at all you can easily get all the credit you need by selling some of your cash shop items, not that you'd have much use for credit given you can't spend it to unlock anything if you're not subbed.
 #158925  by kali o.
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:05 am
Again, not sure where you guys are getting your info, but it's a bug. In fact, if you delete your characters, it won't let you create ANY characters (0/2) because it's not properly handling slots. Devs have spoken quite clearly since it's been reported (JovethGonzalez). And btw, it's 2 characters per ACCOUNT, not server. This is in addition to all the other bugs ("must have active subscription" bug, CC's being lost, transaction errors, subs able to buy F2P passes, game forgetting you have a sub or vice versa, etc). Not the sloppiest F2P ever, but it's pretty damn buggy.
 #158926  by Shrinweck
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:40 am
There's a character slot bug but from what I can tell it isn't the same thing we're talking about. It looks like it's a bug where character slot amounts have glitched and they can't create a new character even after deleting their old ones.
 #158927  by kali o.
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:43 am
Shrinweck wrote:There's a character slot bug but from what I can tell it isn't the same thing we're talking about. It looks like it's a bug where character slot amounts have glitched and they can't create a new character even after deleting their old ones.
I am clear what you are talking about, but I think I see what you are trying to say. I was pointing out the way the game is currently handling character slots is hosed. The only reason the 2 limit isn't being enforced, even though the cap has been sloppily included, is because Bioware couldn't properly code the feature in time -- the idea that it's here to stay or a conspiracy is a stretch when you can easily claim incompetence to fix the bug. This is the same company that needed six months to figure out how to code transfers...

Also, look at the market now...given the price of everything, hoping additional slots are less than 1500 is wishful thinking at best and that is more coinage than most were gifted.
 #158931  by Shrinweck
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:00 pm
I was talking more about active subscribers buying more character slots but yeah I would expect buying more active slots for F2P players would be very, very expensive compared to most other things.
 #158937  by Don
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:54 pm
I just think it's pretty weird to not being able to work out how to sell character slots when they pretty much try to sell everything else like emotes and titles, though I guess you should never underestimate the power of incompetence. I wouldn't expect a character slot to be less than 1000 CC and certainly won't be surprised if it's 1500.

I was reading you can spend 350 CC to unlock HK-51 for your other characters but his armor which is supposed to scale to your level does not actually work so he comes with no equipment unless the character you're unlocking is level 50 and is utterly useless. Instead of being a companion equipped with high end companion gear you get to pay $4 to unlock a companion that starts out with no gear.

At any rate, bug or not, you probably should take advantage of the ability to access every one of your characters if you've any character you cared about for their story mode that you happened to have already created a character for before your sub ran out.
 #158940  by Don
 Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:20 pm
For some reason you cannot select credit boxes as mission reward unless you subscribe. I mean, seriously? They don't even offer very much credit. Are they afraid people will have too much credits when you basically can't spend it on anything anyway?
 #158944  by Don
 Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:34 pm
Another funny thing I noticed, you can sell stuff like Hotkey slot unlock and whatnot on the GTN, but since preferred accounts can only carry 350K max this means it is impossible to sell any item for more than 350K. Of course, that doesn't stop people from putting random CC unlocks that are completely useless for any subscribed guys (since it's already unlocked) for more than 350K and wonder why it doesn't sell. Yes I understand technically you could buy it while subbed and then use it to unlock your own account when you stop being subbed, but if you've that kind of foresight you probably have enough CC to buy the essentials anyway (and probably still get hammered by the weekly passes regardless so you might as well stay subbed).

Honestly they shouldn't have put a credit limit on the F2P accounts because then you'd actually be able to sell the unlocks at a reasonable exchange. No one is going to sell the 1200 CC ($12.50 roughly) Artifact Authorization Unlock (Account) for 350K because that'd be valuing 1 million credit at $40 which is insane, but that's the most you can possibly sell it for since anyone who can carry more than 350K does not need this item (because they're subbed). They should've just have a straight up CC to credit exchange similar to GW2 and siphon whatever % they want (GW2 takes 33% per transaction and seems to be doing fine), and you'd definitely be able to make a lot of money that way because some of the super hot items from the gamble pack sells for hundreds of millions, so I can definitely see some people simply buying a bunch of Artifact Authorization or whatever item that'd be popular with F2P guys and sell them for credits, since that's still more reliable than trying to buy the gamble packs and hope you get lucky.