The perfect video game?

[Flip]

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in ... 42533.html

Is it possible to make the perfect game?

[Eric]

We'll find out in 2 hours!

It looks damn good though. Metacritic has it floating around 95

[Zeus]

I'm trying not to get my hopes up. I loved both of the others and we've had many disappointments since September (with a few solid exceptions). I really want this to be as good as people are hyping it....

[Eric]

Been playing since it unlocked on steam, this game is really, really good, goddamn Columbia is gorgeous.

[SineSwiper]

Heh, after all of these triple AAA disappointments, at least Bioshock delivers.

[bovine]

Super Mario Bros 3

[Lox]

Super Mario Bros 3

Super Mario WORLD.

[Julius Seeker]

Super Mario Bros 3

Super Mario WORLD.

Super Mario Bros 3!

[Zeus]

Super Mario Bros 3

Super Mario WORLD.

Metal Gear 4 is still the best and best-lookin' game of this generation....and it's almost been 5 years....

[Eric]

I think I enjoyed Uncharted 2 more then MGS4, but Bioshock Infinite destroys everything else.

This game is a memorable piece of art that I want to replay because I may have missed something somewhere, despite taking my time to take everything in, but also at the same time don't want to replay because of the experience I had playing through it the first time was like something I don't want to ruin and just remember and cherish.

[Oracle]

Is it possible to make the perfect game?

Earthbound



...



And no, it isn't :p

[Flip]

If Infinite is what these reviewers think is a perfect game, than how come the same cant be said for the first Bioshock? I know the original got great reviews, but lets give it even more cfredit. I'm having a blast with Infinite (only a few hours in) because it plays perfectly in the control aspect, is polished, the characters are cool, and the story is interesting.. but it acts and feels exactly like Bioshock 1 so far. That is, of course, a good thing, but they definitely did not reinvent the wheel with this edition.

[Blotus]

Too many weapons: C-, 6/10.



Just kidding. I'm not finished it yet, but it's awesome so far and I love it.

"I appreciate a woman who appreciates vaaaaluuuue!"

[SineSwiper]

If Infinite is what these reviewers think is a perfect game, than how come the same cant be said for the first Bioshock?

It can. It was. Did you not see the reviews on Bioshock 1? Most reviewers gave it a perfect 10 or nearly so.

[Zeus]

I think I enjoyed Uncharted 2 more then MGS4, but Bioshock Infinite destroys everything else.

This game is a memorable piece of art that I want to replay because I may have missed something somewhere, despite taking my time to take everything in, but also at the same time don't want to replay because of the experience I had playing through it the first time was like something I don't want to ruin and just remember and cherish.

I love the storyline of Uncharted....and it's the only reason I keep playing them. The gameplay is HORRIBLE, I know many people who stopped playing the first one because of it. They're fun but no aspect of Uncharted touches MGS4 IMO.

I luvs my Bioshock, always have (I'm one of the guys who loved the second almost as much as the first). But MGS4 is a 10 in every way. Gameplay, graphics, storyline, length, voice acting...everything. So much so it still hasn't been surpassed and it's almost been 5 years since release here.

[SineSwiper]

I love the storyline of Uncharted....and it's the only reason I keep playing them. The gameplay is HORRIBLE, I know many people who stopped playing the first one because of it. They're fun but no aspect of Uncharted touches MGS4 IMO.

Many people? In your mind? Horrible? Really?

Because I never heard of a complaint about this game. It had nearly perfect scores.

[Zeus]

I love the storyline of Uncharted....and it's the only reason I keep playing them. The gameplay is HORRIBLE, I know many people who stopped playing the first one because of it. They're fun but no aspect of Uncharted touches MGS4 IMO.

Many people? In your mind? Horrible? Really?

Because I never heard of a complaint about this game. It had nearly perfect scores.

Yes, I know the reviewers' scores. I'm talking about friends, family, and regulars at my buds' EB. I may have purchased them each year but honestly, it's solely for the storyline. Gameplay is brutal in Uncharted (specifically the fighting). I should not shoot a Mexican in the chest 7 times and he takes it like a champ and it doesn't even phase him (that's from the first game; I'm not exaggerating, I counted the shots). Lots of invisible walls and floaty running too. Then they go ahead and put helmets on the guys in #2 AND create a cover system that barely even works (Gears' cover system works, Uncharted's doesn't)? I couldn't believe they actually caused more problems in the gameplay in the sequel. And the graphics? Very good but still very plastic-y look on the character models. I was not a fan at all and it looked nowhere near as good as Metal Gear 4 (then again, nothing still has on the PS3).

Really, as soon as the combat starts, the games are a 5-6. Almost Assassin's Creed 1 bad but not quite. Without combat, they're an 8.5 with a great story, fantastic voice acting (one of the best ensemble casts, easy), and some nice-looking levels. But they're nowhere near the 9.5-10 scores the games were getting. I'd put them at an overall of about 7.5-8. And I've beaten and played all 3 of them within 2 months of being released.

None of this surprises me, though. This is Naughty Dog we're talking about, they don't exactly have a great pedigree. Crash was always brutal, floaty gameplay and Jak was always very, very mediocre. They pretty much epitomize what Sony's in-house development is all about, tons of flash with little substance (Sucker Punch is the best of the in-house developers IMO). I'd like to get excited about Last of Us, it looks neat. But I just can't because of the developer.

And MGS4 beats any of them in every way, even the storyline and voice acting that are the only real strengths of the series. Anyone who says the graphics in Uncharted are better needs eye surgery, it ain't even close.

[Eric]

The enemies in Uncharted 1 were bullet sponges, in 2 & 3 even on the higher difficulties the hit detection was better, and head shots actually gibbed people.

[Zeus]

The enemies in Uncharted 1 were bullet sponges, in 2 & 3 even on the higher difficulties the hit detection was better, and head shots actually gibbed people.

I played all of them on Normal and I can tell you, the combat was much more annoying in #2 than in #1. Fucking body armor with a helmet in a game that was already stupid to play? Fuck you, Naughty Dog. Those enemies were on top of the bullet sponges they carried over from the first game. Fucking retarded. Really, I played those games SOLELY for the storyline, there was zero pleasure for me in any way from the gameplay

[Flip]

Beat Bioshock Infinite yesterday and was like "wat?" Then i went out and read a bunch of articles and forum posts and now i'm like, "Ohhhh.... hmm, really?"

Great game, but definitely a glorified story book. The fact that you can die and just keep going almost exactly where you left off, minus a little money, makes it too easy. Regardless, I enjoy virtual novels, so really there is nothing bad to say. I dont want to give anything away to those who havent beat the game, but its a mind bender that i keep picking apart and thinking about, which is usually a good sign that i liked it.

[bovine]

Infinite is a great game that brings a lot of flavour to a second playthrough. You are able to view a lot of the setting and dialogue through an entirely new perspective. Also, it gives the name a meaning that you didn't originally understand.

[Flip]

I was thinking about another play through for the reasons you state, maybe on the 1999 mode, too. While the game is easy on normal, i bet 1999 mode will make me tear my thick luscious hair out, though... i dont look forward to the Handyman battles at all with that setting.

[Blotus]

Late game but not ending spoiler
Basically me bitching about broken autosaves

Spoiler: show

I hadn't been able to play for about a week and I was right outside of Comstock's house. You get thrown into the house by the bird, Elizabeth goes away, you fight those zombie presidents, learn about Elizabeth, rescue Elizabeth, kill Comstock, then fight a bunch of dudes and zeppelins. I died failed the zeppelin fight three times in a row and was pretty tired, so I stopped, assuming my autosave was pretty close to there (and there were multiple autosave warnings). Picking it up this morning and I started WAY BACK outside of Comstock's house! What bullshit is this? What is the point of autosaves if it kills over an hour of progress?

At this point I know I'm close to the end and just want to get there. This reminds me of playing New Vegas and having the game bug out and repeatedly freeze in the final Hoover Dam assault. Totally left a bad taste in my mouth that soured the whole experience. I hope the same won't happen here.

[Flip]

auto-save and game stuff

Spoiler: show

I never had an issue with the auto-save, but i did have to play a little longer than i wanted to some sessions to find one. That really shouldnt happen in an FPS and i'm sure they knew they would get a lot of flack for this save system, but maybe they had to do it this way for some reason.

The part where you are at i just plowed through until the end, but i did die once at the zeppelin fight, too. Also, if yorue eager to be done with the game, you are right there. That zeppelin fight where you tell songbird what to attack is the last boss battle type fight.

[SineSwiper]

Wow. Just wow. I thought that knowing that there were going to be plot twists was going to ruin it for me, as I kept thinking about which direction it was going to go, but the ending just blew me away. For those that have played the game, this is a good analysis. (WARNING: MASSIVE SPOILERS!)

Spoiler: show

One thing that bothered me afterwards: Does Elizabeth/Anna survive? If Booker died at that moment, wouldn't she never be born? Or maybe she was born shortly afterwards, but then what happened to Comstock's Anna? He was looking for an heir, but didn't find one? Maybe she died later on?

Also, the 1984 era Elizabeth empire reminded me of that season finale of Legend of the Seeker with the future of a male Confessor. (Probably the one really good episode that series had.) Control to the point of mental micromanagement, and a chance to prevent it.

[SineSwiper]

auto-save and game stuff

Ditto, last fight strategy.

Spoiler: show

The best way to go through the zeppelin fight scene is to hook up to the top of the ship with the Sniper Rifle and just snipe the hell out of them. Try to save Songbird attacks on ground attacks or small ship attacks, since the larger stuff takes a lot time to recharge. For one, don't use him on the rocket gunships because you can shoot those out pretty easily (yet they are big enough to have a large re-charge on the bird). Though, I was forced to use him on the very large zepplins because I never figured out how to kill those "manually".

Also, I have been using Possession and Shock Jockey traps almost exclusively throughout the game and the traps really help with keeping the enemies in check, while Possession is good with the Patriots, however short lived it might be.

[Blotus]

Zeppelin fight to end spoilers:

Spoiler: show

Did it all again last night, won the fight on the first try. I reserved Songbird for the zeppelins in every case except for two of the patriot waves. Mostly possessed one patriot to attack another and carbined the weaker enemies, finishing off with RPGs. Anyway, it was a cool fight once I knew how to tackle it.

I loved all of the ending that followed. Kept trying to guess what the twist would be, but never figured it out even though in retrospect, it's all set up pretty well.

Overall, I loved the game. If I have one problem with it, it's the combat. I really felt that 1) there were too many weapons and vigors to spend a decent amount of time evaluating them (I stuck mostly with Carbine/RPG, Possession/Crows and it worked fine), and 2) it can be straight disorienting to work a huge combat arena with so much going on, especially when you factor in the vertical element of the skyrails. I used every enhancement (+1 health/shield/salt) on salt capacity until it was maxed, and every encounter went about the same way: I'd sit in cover, possess the strongest enemy, have Elizabeth open a turret tear, and repeat until everything was nearly dead. In the case of a handyman, I'd just run and gun with an RPG.

Many moments left me mouth agape with awe (Elizabeth and burning NY, Elizabeth losing finger revelation, first viewing of Columbia, visiting Rapture, Songbird's death). If there's one thing Irrational are masters of, it's mixing visuals, music, audio cues, dialog and storytelling in such an incredible way that I lament having to spend time fighting things to get to the next story section.

[SineSwiper]

Ending (reply to Blotus):

Spoiler: show

Many moments left me mouth agape with awe (Elizabeth and burning NY, Elizabeth losing finger revelation, first viewing of Columbia, visiting Rapture, Songbird's death). If there's one thing Irrational are masters of, it's mixing visuals, music, audio cues, dialog and storytelling in such an incredible way that I lament having to spend time fighting things to get to the next story section.

Don't get me wrong... all of the different plot twists were fantastic. But, up until the Songbird's re-capture of Elizabeth, the plot twists were either semi-predictable or not jaw dropping. To me, it was feeling like just another Bioshock game with some better gameplay physics.

But, the 1984 Elizabeth world was really frelling creepy, the kind of feelings I've only experienced with certain Fallout Vaults (or like I said, that one episode of LotS), and that's when it really started to turn into an awesome game.

And when they teleported to Rapture was my huge WTF moment. Especially since Shellie had asked about whether this story was linked to the other Bioshocks, and I said no. Sure, it was a bit of fan service, but it was still awesome. All the way through the dizzying amount of information and the last 10 seconds of the ending. Wow.

A perfect game indeed. Maybe not in the strictest sense of the word, but about as good as we're going to get for a while.

[Flip]

I'm terrible at stopping and listening to the audiovox's, so i missed a few things like...

Spoiler: show

I made a comment earlier in this thread that the game "acts and feels exactly like Bioshock 1 so far" and now i know why, lol. I've read some really good analysis (like the Eurogamer one Sine posted) where they piece apart the audiovox's, too. In one, Fink essentially says he uses the tears to watch people in Rapture and that gave him the idea to make thinkgs like vigors and handymen. So, the game felt like BS1 because it is supposed to! That, in itself, is a little mind blowing. They copied their own game, which should make it stale, but instead it is a plot device and awesome.

Here are two more good articles:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/04/biosh ... explained/

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/39 ... explained/

[Eric]

Vigors are still a disconnect in this game, it made more sense in Bioshock 1 since everyone was splicing and trying to be the best they can be.

In this game they're kinda just there, even if you rationalize why they're there, it still doesn't make sense why more people aren't using them en masse.

[SineSwiper]

I'm terrible at stopping and listening to the audiovox's, so i missed a few things like...

Spoiler: show

I made a comment earlier in this thread that the game "acts and feels exactly like Bioshock 1 so far" and now i know why, lol. I've read some really good analysis (like the Eurogamer one Sine posted) where they piece apart the audiovox's, too. In one, Fink essentially says he uses the tears to watch people in Rapture and that gave him the idea to make thinkgs like vigors and handymen. So, the game felt like BS1 because it is supposed to! That, in itself, is a little mind blowing. They copied their own game, which should make it stale, but instead it is a plot device and awesome.

Here are two more good articles:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/04/biosh ... explained/

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/39 ... explained/

Spoiler: show

First of all, I think PC Gamers critic of the ending missed the mark of how great it was. Yes, it was going rather fast and in a "wrap it up" manner, but there was still a ton of emotional impact. Just as I'm dealing with how Elizabeth/Anna is his daughter, I'm blown away with the realization that Comstock and Booker are the same person. Scene to black. Fin. Holy shit.

It wasn't an "Uh? What?" moment to me, but I thought the explanation was slightly too fast at the end, but that may have been because I finished it at 2AM. I replayed the boss battle and stuff this morning to show to Shellie and I heard what my brain dismissed as the same "quantum 5th dimension" talk, when she was talking about the two realities of the baptism.

Second, there's a lot of "meta" in this game, like what that Eurogamer pointed out with the Luteces and how they were, in some ways, breaking the fourth wall to make fun of the players lack of interaction. Things will progress in the game slightly differently for each player, but will ultimately go towards the same destination. Variables and constants.

What was especially "fourth wallish" was the scene with the baby, and Elizabeth tells you that you can't leave this room without handing over the baby. Your character literally cannot leave the room, even if the player wants to. She's telling both Hooker and yourself, as a player. The same as the scene with the lighthouses and bridges. You can move in certain directions, but not all, and ultimately, you'll just end up with the single choice of a door.

I think Irrational wanted to take the dynamic of choices with Bioshock, and just knock the whole concept down like a wrecking ball, to be replaced with a strong sense of fatalism. Because the fatalism is a stronger core in RPGs than the small amount of determinism some games choose to put into certain games, and because the veteran Bioshock player is expecting a strong amount of determinism (as is in their previous games), it both surprises and rings as a more sincere voice in the narrative.

In other words, don't reject the fatalism, embrace it. This is not some open-ended Skyrim or Fables type world where the choices are binary and shallow. This is a story that says that choices that ultimately don't matter, because it has already happened. (And yet, it's still a story about choices, and fighting against the ocean of fate. Dualities and concepts I have not seen since Braid.)

Vigors are still a disconnect in this game, it made more sense in Bioshock 1 since everyone was splicing and trying to be the best they can be.

In this game they're kinda just there, even if you rationalize why they're there, it still doesn't make sense why more people aren't using them en masse.

Spoiler: show

Well, for one, Fink got the idea from Rapture, anyway. It was probably pretty new tech, still for the rich, etc. They probably just thought guns worked better.

Vigors wasn't the focus of this story, so Irrational didn't put spend a lot of time into it. Instead, vigors were more of a gameplay device and the tears were more story focused, like Albert Fink's use of the one in his studio.

[Flip]

Zeppelin fight to end spoilers:

Spoiler: show

Did it all again last night, won the fight on the first try. I reserved Songbird for the zeppelins in every case except for two of the patriot waves. Mostly possessed one patriot to attack another and carbined the weaker enemies, finishing off with RPGs. Anyway, it was a cool fight once I knew how to tackle it.

I loved all of the ending that followed. Kept trying to guess what the twist would be, but never figured it out even though in retrospect, it's all set up pretty well.

Overall, I loved the game. If I have one problem with it, it's the combat. I really felt that 1) there were too many weapons and vigors to spend a decent amount of time evaluating them (I stuck mostly with Carbine/RPG, Possession/Crows and it worked fine), and 2) it can be straight disorienting to work a huge combat arena with so much going on, especially when you factor in the vertical element of the skyrails. I used every enhancement (+1 health/shield/salt) on salt capacity until it was maxed, and every encounter went about the same way: I'd sit in cover, possess the strongest enemy, have Elizabeth open a turret tear, and repeat until everything was nearly dead. In the case of a handyman, I'd just run and gun with an RPG.

Many moments left me mouth agape with awe (Elizabeth and burning NY, Elizabeth losing finger revelation, first viewing of Columbia, visiting Rapture, Songbird's death). If there's one thing Irrational are masters of, it's mixing visuals, music, audio cues, dialog and storytelling in such an incredible way that I lament having to spend time fighting things to get to the next story section.

Spoiler: show

We took WAY different routes. I spent none of my extra health/shield/salt upgrades on salt. I hardly used the things except i found that crows worked well against the birdmen, firemen, and handymen and the possess worked great against turrets. I basically kept those two the entire time. I spent most of the upgrades on health, because i didnt want a super big shield. I had some item that where i could run 2x my speed if my shield 'broke'. I paired that up with an item that gave me 2x speed after landing from a rail, so every fight it felt like i was running so crazy fast and could do whatever i wanted. Retreat and snipe, or run crazy butt fast and shotgun people in the face. Constantly using the hooks and rails.

My main weapons focus was sniper, hand cannon, the shotgun, and also the carbine. Unfortunately for this game's mechanics, i found that if you have the crosshairs to where the enemy life bar pops up, you will hit them.

As for the last fight, the enemies focued on that blue core, so i found sniping the best route, too, with Elizabeth giving me tons of ammo all the time. I used Songbird only on the ships, even with the long cooldown, while i killed the people. When the p[atriots came out, i could retreat all the way to the front of the ship and shoot their gears with the sniper rifle wince they would focus on the blue core and not turn around to attack me. I only lost the first time because i didnt realize i needed to save the core. I didnt understand that what the ships life bar thing was... it was also pretty late at night for me, like Sine

[SineSwiper]

1999 Mode is HOLY SHIT FUCKING HARD!

[Zeus]

1999 Mode is HOLY SHIT FUCKING HARD!

That's good to hear. I've become so accustomed to easiness in games it hardly phases me anymore. I was actually forced to take difficulty out of consideration for rating any game anymore because every freakin' game is so damned easy now. Either that or it has a stupid mode. I'm finding Infinite to be relatively easy on Normal but it's good to know that the challenge is there if you want it.

Unlike, say, Veteran mode in Call of Duty which, with Black Ops 2, has become so easy it's not even a challenge anymore

[SineSwiper]

Spoiler: show

Heh, a puppy. Jack had a puppy once...

Also, this is hilarious:

[SineSwiper]

Beat it on 1999 mode without Dollar Bills and on the XBox 360. That's 200 pts off the bat (with the Hard finish as well). Only revived 3-4 times in the whole game, so I spent my money on mostly upgrades. Had to employ a few tricks to make it, though:

Spoiler: show

Health/Shields - The 1999 shield delay is SOOOOO SLOW! This is the primary reason you die, that and shots are just so damn painful. This is a cover game now more than ever. Machine guns can reach you from so far away, too, so you can think you have cover, but you get shot from sniper range. A single bullet, and you have to wait for the shield delay again, or screw up the 10 second recharge. You really need to hunt down everything and can't be afraid of backtracking to get supplies.

Saves/Revives - Don't revive. Always reload. Sometimes you get tired of it and want to spend the 100 coins, but that can be so wasteful and better spent on upgrades. Sometimes the checkpoint is so far away, too. (Also, never run away from handymen. It will really screw with your checkpoint sometimes.)

Guns - Shotgun and sniper rifle. Sometimes the carbine and sometimes the RPG, but mostly the SG&SR. Never lose them. I always had ammo problems the entire time, but at least I could headshot humans from a distance, and one-shotting enemies is critical in 1999 Mode. Shotgun will dispatch most humans at close range with one shot as well.

Vigors - Possession, yes, definitely, use on any dangerous human enemy or turrets. Or in a pinch when you need a decoy. Or when you need to redirect a Patriot for a short time. Shock Jockey, not quite as useful as my Normal mode game, but the shock and traps are still worth it. Charge, wow, much better than I realized, especially full upgraded. The "start shield" apply is great, considering the slow delay. Started using this all the time on humans, since it can kill them in small groups, and even Patriots when I just want to get some good damage.

Gear - There are some surprisingly good gear out there, so try some of them out. The ones that say "a few seconds" actually mean 10+ seconds, so gear like Sheltered Life or the Ghost gun drop thingy are actually pretty useful.

Handymen - Always very hard, but doable even in 1999 mode. You have to jump on a rail line, wait for them to shock it, jump off, then get some free shots in their heart. The problem is that this is hard to do when they send in the handyman + some soldiers trying to kill you. You generally need to clear the area first before you can try this. The first one doesn't have a rail line, so you're basically just running around and hoping you can get enough heart shots.

Ghost Bosses - Hardest boss in the game, but there is an amazingly easy trick: Charge. Holy shit, I was surprised that you can kill her in 10 seconds with Charges and interrupting her summons. I had SUCH A HARD TIME without this trick, and it was the cause of a few revives. (The problem is that revives are almost like starting over, since she's back to full health.) I did kill her the first time by just sniping from afar her soldiers, and then meleeing/SGing her when she got sick of me doing that. So much easier with Charge, though.

Comstock's Airship - It really helps to jump on the rail, slow it down to a crawl, and slowly snipe everybody you see. Drains your sniper ammo, but makes the whole fight less of a manic brawl.

Final Vox Fight - Drain most of your Vigor bar on a bunch of Sender shields on the power column. This will protect it most of the time and make the battle a lot less frantic. (Which it already was on Normal.) You'll probably have to put up another set of shields near the end, but that's it. Don't be afraid of using Songbird on ground attacks. The recharge is super quick, and it's great on Patriots. (And saves precious sniper ammo.) Be careful of the double gunships at the top of the sniper tower.

[Eric]

Wait, what about charge and the ghost chick? I was relying on snipes. :o

[SineSwiper]

Wait, what about charge and the ghost chick? I was relying on snipes. :o

Ten seconds, dude. Ten seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmCKXz9NiWI#t=1m08s