Breaking Bad home stretch

[Anarky]

Oh Zeus...

[Anarky]

[Shrinweck]

Damn. People said that the machine gun definitely had something to do with Grey Matter but I just didn't really see it coming. So his return is entirely for spite and revenge, I guess. An interesting move. I guess he has enough information to assume Jesse is alive... I can't believe they're making us wait another week :(

[Anarky]

It was a very slow episode considering the time frame we have left. Todd is a motherfucker beyond words. Walt asking the cleaner to stay longer, followed up with the call to Junior was one of the saddest moments of the show. Carmen's ass is like an onion, makes me cry every time I see it.

[Lox]

I can't wait for Todd to get it. I really really hope Jesse gets to put him down. That scene was more gut wrenching than the one with Hank.

[Shrinweck]

I guess Odenkirk's spin off is about him rebuilding his life in the criminals version of witness protection? I will watch the shit out of that.

[Lox]

I think it's a prequel, not a sequel to Breaking Bad.

[Flip]

Damn. People said that the machine gun definitely had something to do with Grey Matter but I just didn't really see it coming. So his return is entirely for spite and revenge, I guess. An interesting move. I guess he has enough information to assume Jesse is alive... I can't believe they're making us wait another week

Wait, thats what you took from it, did i miss something? Obviously he was peeved at the lack of recognition from the interview, but i didnt put together that him going back to Albuquerque had to do with revenge on the Grey Matter people.

Did he call the police to turn himself in and then changed his mind after seeing the broadcast? I figured he already had a plan in place, for something that i'm not sure of, when he called the police which was before he saw the interview... I feel like Walt has enough to worry about than to go back just for petty revenge. It would seem out of character, i think... what he may do instead is use them, in some way, to funnel his family the money.

I cant believe there is only one more episode left. This show certainly brings the drama up to the last minute.

[Shrinweck]

I think that was the point of him getting so angry and not turning himself in after Gretchen talked about Walter White being dead and Heisenberg being all that's left. I think he's going there to show them how dead Walter White really is. This is especially emphasized by Walt Junior completely disowning him during their phone conversation. In order to deal with the pain he has to shove what's left of himself away.

The same people who said Grey Matter was going to be his ultimate motivation to go back to Albuquerque said that he was going to discharge the machine gun at the Grey Matter building so I was mostly just going on the assumption of them still being right.

[Flip]

That would be the weakest ending ever, the show is too smart for that. If he does go after Grey Matter def expect there to be an agenda beyond revenge. Somehow he is going to rescue Jesse and fuck up those Nazi's.. in addition to getting his money back and getting it to his family before dying. Jesse will adopt Brock and that side will be sorta happy ending.

[Shrinweck]

There's going to be more - I'm just saying that's what got him out of the bar. Just malice. I don't think the show is going to end with him dying as that fucking jerk Heisenberg, but the only thing to get him back to Albuquerque is just pure emotional idiocy. Just like that's what got him to go to the money and give them evidence against him.

Walter White was going to turn himself in. It's over - the money can't get to his family and he was going to die alone. Heisenberg is the one that wouldn't let things go. He's the one who wants revenge.

In the previous post where I mentioned him figuring out Jesse was the one cooking he was given actual evidence, but the broadcast just gave him the information that the meth was still out there, which could easily be Todd. His intentions are revenge, but I imagine there will be more when he actually gets there.

[Julius Seeker]

Ricin on the grey-matter people.
Machine gun everyone else.

What about the 10 million+ sitting in the cabin up on the Canadian border?

[Shrinweck]

Would assume the cops would be able to track down where he's been staying and that money is theirs now. I don't see the ricin being used on Gretchan and her husband... it just doesn't seem like Walt would poison someone for revenge. Would imagine he would want to rub their noses in it somehow and ricin poisoning would have to remain a secret because they would just go to the hospital.

Ricin never seems to actually get used on this show. Someone dying of flu-like system over the course of three days is just too boring for dramatic television.

My wild ass guess is that Walt gets his hands on the money the Nazis took from him and finds a way to use it to help his family and Jesse. And then he dies. Bonus points for him tricking the DEA into killing the Nazis while he helps Jesse and steals the money.

[Anarky]

I keep thinking back to this line

"Mr. White, he's the devil. He is smarter than you. He is luckier than you."

What we expect to happen will not be what does end up happening.


I think the opening will be a flashback. I really want to know why Walt left Grey Matter and why he could never get a job as good, if not better. We do know he had a different job when he met Skyler.

[Flip]

"He is luckier than you."

I love this line, i think i pointed it out on the first page of this thread somewhere. So true.

[Shrinweck]

Yeah the luckier line was genius. Especially in a television drama. It's all but breaking the fourth wall and saying "THIS IS HIS SHOW, YOU FOOL"

[Julius Seeker]

Walt is the devil in the Miltonian sense - an angel in the beginning, working for the system - then fallen through his own temptation to do things he sees as good, and then manipulating other people to fall the same way he did, and everyone else who is already a bad guy - through temptation.

[Zeus]

It boggles my mind that you guys thought the penultimate ep was good....

[Lox]

I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks of the finale. (Well, everyone except Zeus...I'm actually hiding your posts until we're done discussing...sorry, dude, I just can't take it).

[Flip]

Very fitting ending, i loved it. This show is subtle, but also to the point. I think a neatly tied up ending was the perfect way to go. There didnt need to be a long epilogue or wrap-up and i'm glad they didnt. Nothing can kill Heisenberg but himself... accidentally.

Watching Jesse drive off, still obviously broken, is tough, though. I guess i did want some more happy ending for him.

[Shrinweck]

Yeah I quite liked the ending.and I'm glad I was wrong about the Gretchan-Elliot conclusion. And, yeah, besides Jesse being quite broken one would have to assume his finger prints are literally all over that lab. I thought that Walt would have enough time to make it explode with him still in it to destroy the evidence, but I guess Jesse is on the run forever now. Not a good ending for him. But he did some god awful shit that deserved punishing, as well. I thought that if they found Walt's corpse in a destroyed lab they would assume he was cooking and Jesse could get off somewhat free.

I'm glad Todd went the way he did, as well as Lydia. It's about time ricen actually killed someone. That machine gun thing was genius.. I guess I can suspend disbelief that he would know exactly how far away to park the car and what arc would fire through the entire room just from having been there in the past.

Loved his admission to Skylar and his final viewing of Flynn was gut wrenching.

I was hoping for a more chemistry-related murdering of the Nazis, but why would you do something with chemistry when you already have the god damned machine gun? I absolutely loved how he finished off Jack.

In summation not as ridiculously epic as one could have hoped but at least it wasn't as bad as Dexter and it met my expectations.

Edit: Wow an hour long Talking Bad... guess I might as well watch that.

[Shrinweck]

Got lucky enough to buy two tickets to the Finale at Hollywood Forever. Sold out in seconds.

http://cinespia.ticketfly.com/event/363 ... s-angeles/

So how was this? Given people being more and more intolerable in movie theaters I can only imagine how god damned annoying they are when in a similar arrangement for a television show where people often feel the right to make loud exclamations when something of note happens. Or was it okay because anyone who would go to something like this is a fan?

[Anarky]

Got lucky enough to buy two tickets to the Finale at Hollywood Forever. Sold out in seconds.

http://cinespia.ticketfly.com/event/363 ... s-angeles/

So how was this? Given people being more and more intolerable in movie theaters I can only imagine how god damned annoying they are when in a similar arrangement for a television show where people often feel the right to make loud exclamations when something of note happens. Or was it okay because anyone who would go to something like this is a fan?

It was good, the crowd was well behaved and was quiet throughout the finale. We got to watch the Pilot, followed by about a 15 minute intermission and then the Final. Afterwards Jimmy Kimmel did a live Q&A with a good chunk of the cast. I'll try to upload some photos tomorrow.

I think Walt's admission that he did it all for himself was great, it needed to come out finally.

[Julius Seeker]

Then I guess everything is wrapped up in a neat little package!

I thought the ending wrapped up everything very well, but it wasn't the typical Breaking Bad style sequence where everything screws up, and yet still happens to work out. For once, it looked like everything went according to plan for Walt.

Except maybe him accidentally shooting himself.

The ending was more like Excalibur than it was like the Scarface-like ending I was hoping for before the start of this coming half-season. Breaking Bad typically has things screw up badly for Walt, and then it all still works out for him. This time he went in with his Excalibur , struck down his foes, and perished with some bit of redemption. Scarface, was the opposite of this - though Tony still went out the same way, weapons ablaze.

I held out through the credits to see if they would show a 3 second clip of Huell gently crying to himself, still sitting in that house that Hank and Gomez told him to wait in all those months ago.

Spoiler: show

Kidding on that last part!

I am hoping that in the prequel series they uncover more about Gus Fring's Chilean connections.

[Zeus]

If you guys wanna hear it, let me know. I'll explain to you exactly why the creators of this show made the last 2 season useless with the direction of the last few episodes

[Zeus]

I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks of the finale. (Well, everyone except Zeus...I'm actually hiding your posts until we're done discussing...sorry, dude, I just can't take it).

Didn't realize we had another Republican here. I honestly thought Joe was the only one :-)

[Flip]

Edit: Wow an hour long Talking Bad... guess I might as well watch that.

I tried to watch it, but the live aspect made the talking seem more like rambling, it was sort of painful to listen to. Even from Gilligan, i thought.

[Flip]

If you guys wanna hear it, let me know. I'll explain to you exactly why the creators of this show made the last 2 season useless with the direction of the last few episodes

I'll bite. Type it all out. But, maybe put it in spoiler tags so other people can continue to ignore you.

Are you trying to say the show could have ended after season 4 and didnt need Season 5 part I and II? Or, are you saying that Season 5 I and II should have gone a different route? If you have issues with the Hank/Walt conflict then I'm not sure what to tell you, because any show that has a drug kingpin and a DEA brother-in-law is obviously going to have a battkle between the two eventually and we've known of Hanks job since episode 1.

[Anarky]

Once again "He is smarter than you. He is luckier than you." came into play. And I personally don't have an issue with it. Sometimes I admit to liking the hollywood ending where things are conveniently wrapped up.

This is actually a well written critique, but I still don't agree with it.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/c ... iewed.html

[Flip]

A few weeks ago, that same writer admitted she didnt realize that THE Phone Call to Skyler was a trick to try and get the cops off Skyler's case until after she scoured forum boards post show. Nussbaum's initial take of things should always be taken with a grain of salt when you miss something that obvious.

Regardless, i do kind of like her fantasy version. Its true that too many things fell into place for it to be believable, but the whole show has always been like that. Take, for instance, when Walt drove 100+ mph from the car wash out to the money burial site after he got the picture text from Hank/Jesse. No one reported that as he tore through town a breakneck speeds?

Sometimes, Walt is just lucky.

[Anarky]

A few weeks ago, that same writer admitted she didnt realize that THE Phone Call to Skyler was a trick to try and get the cops off Skyler's case until after she scoured forum boards post show. Nussbaum's initial take of things should always be taken with a grain of salt when you miss something that obvious.

Yea, even my fiancee thought Walt was being his true abusive self during that scene. Women tend to have a different perspective since some of them have been through, or know someone who has been through an emotionally abusive relationship (which honestly Walt and Skyler's was).

[Shrinweck]

I could see that being the case.. Men would jump to it being protective more quickly than the alternative which was just pure madness. Walt had been verbally abusive in the past but the way he was talking to her in that scene was probably supposed to be cartoonish, but the fact that some people thought it was sincere is just a nod to the skill involved in the writing and acting of that scene. As well as how good Walter was at tricking people at that point. Tricking the audience is always entertaining.

[Zeus]

If you guys wanna hear it, let me know. I'll explain to you exactly why the creators of this show made the last 2 season useless with the direction of the last few episodes

I'll bite. Type it all out. But, maybe put it in spoiler tags so other people can continue to ignore you.

Are you trying to say the show could have ended after season 4 and didnt need Season 5 part I and II? Or, are you saying that Season 5 I and II should have gone a different route? If you have issues with the Hank/Walt conflict then I'm not sure what to tell you, because any show that has a drug kingpin and a DEA brother-in-law is obviously going to have a battkle between the two eventually and we've known of Hanks job since episode 1.

No, no. The Hank-Walt confrontation NEEDED to happen. That was hanging over the show for the entire run and Hank was too close before. I was OK with it happening and woulda been disappointed if they just dropped it. But, much like nearly everything else with an AMC show, it was the execution that I was disappointed at.

Fully in spoiler:

Spoiler: show

Here's the issue: for the last two full seasons (4 and 5), they have pretty much shown the decline of Walt White into a completely different person, into Heisenberg for lack of a better term. After the death of Gus, he had a perfect opportunity to just walk away. He had made many millions and had more than provided for his family, the entire reason he wanted to do it to begin with. What was his initial amount? $770k or so? He had WAAAY surpassed that once he took the offer from Gus. That scene when Skylar shows him the stack of money in the storage container was very significant from a symbolic point of view.

So what were the last two seasons really about then? Well, with Gus, you can make the argument he got a little greedy and got in over his head when he took the offer to cook for him when he coulda just walked away. Then it was all about survival and it was clearly him or Gus. There's Season 3 in a nutshell. Then, he, Mike, and Jesse sell off $15M of methlamine that they steal to the current drug king. Easy way out, done. And with much more money than he even knows how to spend. But he doesn't take it? Why? Well, because being a part of that world changed him, brought out his dark side. That's when the Walt White the show started with started to disappear.

And the last two full seasons were all about that proof. He was trying to kid himself that he was doing it for the family. As he admitted in the last ep, it never was after a point. It was always about him. Shooting Mike, trying to kill Jesse, "I am what knocks"......all of that to basically prove how far he had gone over to the dark side. Walt White was gone and all you had left was Heisenberg pretending to be Walt White. That's why it would have been perfect for the show to end 2 episodes sooner, where he was forced to run and go into hiding based on the decisions he had made. Maybe show a few scenes here and there with him in the cabin having to pay someone to spend time with him (great scene). Maybe a little more with the fallout with Skylar (she's already been forced waaaay too much into the show, might as well tie her part up). But that's it. He chose, he pays the consequences.

This whole sacrificing himself to make things right bullshit goes against everything they'd been building up the last two seasons. That Walt White is gone, he'd proven it repeatedly. And don't give me this "he's trying to redeeming himself while on his death bed" bullshit. He had plenty of opportunity before to show that there was a little of that left in him. There wasn't. It woulda been far, far more powerful an ending without the redemption shit, to show how even though he technically got away, he ruined everyone's life. Skylar was left in a world of shit, Jesse was an imprisoned slave, Hank was dead and Marie was dealing with it, Flynn hates his father....all that meant so much less after his "ultimate sacrifice".

Incidentally, this is the exact reason I hated the last minute of the Dexter finale or the stupid "twist" ending in the Red Dragon movie. Everything up to that point in each of those fit perfect with what they were trying to accomplish and bam, they almost completely ruin it by adding that little extra. Just not necessary and counter-productive to everything that came before it. Why build all that up if you're just gonna shit all over it?

[Eric]

I went on a Breaking Bad bender, uhhh I watched all of Season 4 & 5 over the past 4 days(Fri--Mon) lol. I've been avoiding the internet and spoilers for a week now, so great to stick my head back above water rofl. I was watching that shit on Netflix @ work!

Also this glorious gif now has context for me

[kali o.]

Hmmm, I don't like Breaking Bad as much as most of you (sure as hell not a sophisticated show, like say Sopranos) but I did enjoy it. That said, zeus you are talking nonsense. His redemption? Do you even know what that word means? Last ep had zero to do with that, he went full on Hiesenberg and buried Walt for good - that's all that was about. Saving Jesse was impulse, he went in there hoping to kill the kid at first.

Son still hates him, money may or may not ever get there, wife hates him and is in a world of shit, hank is still in a hole, threats are dead (Nazis and the Lydia) - redemption...are you serious?

[Eric]

Sooooo to make sure we're clear Zeus liked Seasons 6 & 8 of Dexter and Dexter's finale, and didn't like Breaking Bad's last season and finale.

ok.

[Zeus]

Sooooo to make sure we're clear Zeus liked Seasons 6 & 8 of Dexter and Dexter's finale, and didn't like Breaking Bad's last season and finale.

ok.

Not quite. I liked Season 6 of Dexter but not 8. I have called it the weakest season numerous times here. I liked the direction of the ending of the series (mostly the last couple of eps)....except for the last minute. That was retarded.

Breaking Bad? I haven't liked it since about 2/3rds of the way through Season 2. I actually stopped watching most of the way through Season 4 and only picked it back up again because they announced the show was ending after Season 5 and I wanted to see it through. Otherwise I wouldn't have even finished Season 4. 5 was stronger than 4 thanks to the fact they could see the light at the end of the tunnel but I sure as shit wouldn't call it "good". Some good parts, sure. But overall? Pretty mediocre with a poor ending

[Zeus]

Hmmm, I don't like Breaking Bad as much as most of you (sure as hell not a sophisticated show, like say Sopranos) but I did enjoy it. That said, zeus you are talking nonsense. His redemption? Do you even know what that word means? Last ep had zero to do with that, he went full on Hiesenberg and buried Walt for good - that's all that was about. Saving Jesse was impulse, he went in there hoping to kill the kid at first.

Son still hates him, money may or may not ever get there, wife hates him and is in a world of shit, hank is still in a hole, threats are dead (Nazis and the Lydia) - redemption...are you serious?

No? What was the point of him giving the money to his rich ex-friends and using his image as a brutal criminal mastermind to scare them into ensuring it happened after he was dead? What's the point of him giving Skylar the lottery ticket so they can find the bodies of Hank and Gomez to hopefully help her out with the FBI? NONE of that had to happen at all and both were the very first things he did after he got back to Albequerque. And there's nothing in it for him in either situation, they were purely to help out his family. That, my friend, is what a turnaround in character is all about.

Don't forget: he didn't decide to go to kill Todd and Jack until AFTER he found out there was blue meth back on the streets. It was in the car when Jesse's stoner friends told him the blue meth was back on the streets that set him off after Jack and realize they had kept Jesse alive (remember, he thought Jesse was dead). He could very easily have just returned to New Mexico to make sure Walt Jr (Flynn was ALWAYS a retarded name) got the money and that's it for all you know. So he's already in redemption mode with his family when decides to go and save Jesse while extracting revenge on Jack (and, by extension, Lydia). Why else would he be going in there? If he wanted Jesse dead he could very easily have let him die, he didn't have to jump him. That was CLEARLY a part of his plan from the beginning, otherwise why would he coerce Jack into bringing Jesse to see him to begin with? There was no impulse in any way, it was all planned.

So let's see: after he had a chance to disappear for good (and he was gone for over a month, he was GONE) he decides to risk everything before the cancer gets him in order to a) get all of his money to his son; b) show up at his wife's new place where the FBI is likely hiding out (BTW, how the hell did he get in and out?) for the sole purpose of giving her something to help her out with her trouble; and c) risk his life by going in to see Jack (ain't that hard to call in an anonymous tip once you knew the location), coerce him into bringing Jesse to you, then jumping the kid to the ground to avoid the lethal barrage of gunfire intended for Jack and his crew AFTER he had already given Lydia, the source of money for Jack, a lethal dose of ricin. This after he had directly or indirectly led to the predicament his wife is in, causing his son to hate him, the death of his brother-in-law and another officer, Saul having to go into hiding, etc.

If he's getting nothing personally out of it and is helping others by attempting to undue some of the ridiculous shitstorm he caused, there's no redemption in it?

[Shrinweck]

Giving money to Flynn wasn't about redeeming himself, it was about providing for his child's future whether he liked it or not. Flynn would never accept drug money and going behind his back is inherently an evil and dishonest deed. If he wanted to redeem himself he wouldn't have left with them still hating him. He did what he could, but redemption doesn't include scaring people with death if they don't follow your orders. Giving Skylar the GPS coordinates of Hank was kind but he knew it wouldn't endear him to his family enough to actually redeem him in their eyes.

It was two guys in a car watching a building with what likely had multiple entrances. Waiting for a moment where their view is obscured (by a schoolbus for example) isn't rocket science. They were watching the building through a fucking mirror LOL - this part of the writing (direction?) was weak what kind of idiots wouldn't at least turn the car so they could view it clearly.

He convinced Jack to bring Jesse because he wanted Jesse dead, too. He thought Jesse was a partner, not a prisoner. He went there to kill Jesse, as well, until he realized he wasn't a willing participant. This isn't something someone looking to redeem themselves does. It's something someone who's looking to die with as clear a conscience as possible would do.

If he wanted to redeem himself he probably should have followed Marie's advice when she gave it and killed himself. Trying to send Flynn money and calling him was an act of redemption. Going back to Albuquerque after realizing he was beyond redemption was him trying to make things as right as possible before he died.

[Anarky]

I love reddit sometimes

[Zeus]

Going back to Albuquerque after realizing he was beyond redemption was him trying to make things as right as possible before he died.

Better known as "redemption"

[Shrinweck]

Redemption implies that he felt as if there was a chance that any future action of his could in any way clear him of his past deeds. This was not about that.

[Julius Seeker]

Of course the 5th season was necessary. Breaking Bad was based on classic Aristotle-an literary theory. Walter White, a guy who can be related to runs into a problem; cancer. People feel sorry for him, and his brother in law Hank thinks he's living a boring life. He is presented a way to solve all of his issues by cooking meth, which is his his immoral blunder. This leads him into a chain of events that gradually erodes away his old life, while he begins to thrive in his immoral path. Immorality has punishment in the end, Vince Gilligan repeated this in many interviews in some words or others; he, Cranston, and others let on that Walter White had to die long before the ending of the series. In the end, Walt got caught for cooking meth, he turned to immoral forces again and he ended up in a much worse position than he was in the beginning; no job, no respect, family members either hate him or are dead. In the end, he didn't even have life.

If he would have accepted the Grey Matter donations from the beginning, and got proper treatment, we do know that he would have at least had some years left to live - maybe a better opportunity at life than he would have had under any other circumstance.

This was fulfilled with the 5th season.

[Zeus]

Redemption implies that he felt as if there was a chance that any future action of his could in any way clear him of his past deeds. This was not about that.

Setting things right for his family and Jesse before he died of cancer is all about him redeeming himself of his past actions, trying to "fix" whatever he possibly could

[Shrinweck]

He didn't "fix" anything. Everything he did was for himself. This extends to nearly everything in the last episode and even the entire series. Saving Jesse was the only impromptu selfless thing he did and that didn't end so well for him. He didn't redeem himself in anyone's eyes, including Jesse who may have killed him if he wasn't going to already die of his wound. He didn't even redeem himself in his own eyes since clearly he still felt like he deserved his fate.

Skylar is still screwed, they aren't going to just stop trying to pursue her because she makes a deal that helps them find a couple corpses. She'll probably still see the inside of a prison at some point. Flynn still hates him and will always hate him, even if he later finds out the money he ends up being able to support his family with is from his father. His life is basically still ruined. He's the son of a meth kingpin and soon he'll be the super rich son of a meth kingpin. It'll follow him around forever. Jesse is on the run. Even if they don't find traces of him all over the lab and whatever place they kept him, there's still a warrant out for his arrest since he was out on bail for throwing that cash around. His life is either avoiding the police forever or turning himself in.

The best explanation I've seen for the series is Pandora's Box. He opened it and unleashed all this hell. He had all these opportunities to turn around and start doing the right thing even after doing all these horrible things but just dug a hole too deep. He opened the box and he actually managed to close it (meaning all the evil that sprung up because of him was dealt with) before he died. The damage was still done. Even one of the show's producers says the end wasn't about redemption.

The show was about what greed, pride, and hubris can do to us. Not about a Walter's redemption.

[Zeus]

He didn't "fix" anything. Everything he did was for himself. This extends to nearly everything in the last episode and even the entire series. Saving Jesse was the only impromptu selfless thing he did and that didn't end so well for him. He didn't redeem himself in anyone's eyes, including Jesse who may have killed him if he wasn't going to already die of his wound. He didn't even redeem himself in his own eyes since clearly he still felt like he deserved his fate.

Skylar is still screwed, they aren't going to just stop trying to pursue her because she makes a deal that helps them find a couple corpses. She'll probably still see the inside of a prison at some point. Flynn still hates him and will always hate him, even if he later finds out the money he ends up being able to support his family with is from his father. His life is basically still ruined. He's the son of a meth kingpin and soon he'll be the super rich son of a meth kingpin. It'll follow him around forever. Jesse is on the run. Even if they don't find traces of him all over the lab and whatever place they kept him, there's still a warrant out for his arrest since he was out on bail for throwing that cash around. His life is either avoiding the police forever or turning himself in.

The best explanation I've seen for the series is Pandora's Box. He opened it and unleashed all this hell. He had all these opportunities to turn around and start doing the right thing even after doing all these horrible things but just dug a hole too deep. He opened the box and he actually managed to close it (meaning all the evil that sprung up because of him was dealt with) before he died. The damage was still done. Even one of the show's producers says the end wasn't about redemption.

The show was about what greed, pride, and hubris can do to us. Not about a Walter's redemption.

Yes, the damage is done. But all of his actions in the last episode and a half were about fixing whatever he could. He was buried up in that cabin, he had his money and coulda lived out the little life he had left with it. That is, after all, why he did everything. It was for the money. In the beginning it was for his family, afterwards it became for the greed. He admitted as much himself.

It's not about whether or not there's any more damage. There was a shitton and he knew it. So he decides to spend whatever life he had left to fix whatever he could. He could never undo the damage completely, even he knew that (his discussion with Skylar is proof). But he tried to do whatever he could. Why would he do that if it wasn't to try to redeem himself to whatever degree he could? There's no other explanation anyone can come up with. The question is: if it wasn't redemption to some level (no one said it was complete, he's-going-to-heaven-now redemption), then why did he do it? He'd been a selfish, destructive motherfucker for at least 3 seasons. Why all of a sudden is he no longer selfish if he isn't trying to redeem himself as much as he could to the people who mattered?

A couple of other points:

- Jesse's reasons for stopping himself from killing Walt is left up in the air. His initial (and correct) survival instinct was to shoot him based on their history the last 5 eps or so. But he didn't. As to why? Well, it could VERY easily have been because Walt saved his life just then and didn't need to. That's actually the most probable explanation given that the would in Walt's side wasn't revealed to anyone until after Jesse left. You can't assume he even knew about it, that's a stretch

- I don't care about what one of the producers thinks, I care about what was filmed and aired (intent isn't always implemented the way you want). And that included a lot of Walt trying to redeem himself by fixing whatever he could before he died in the last couple of eps

[Shrinweck]

I kind of see what you're talking about but I feel as if we've watched two different shows and taken different things from them respectively. I like my show more :P

[Eric]

You know, everything that happened in the last episodes was Jesse's fault. If he had just taken the bullshit Walt had fed him, and not decided he needed revenge for Brock being poisoned(who was still alive and well anyway), Hank wouldn't have gotten the solid evidence he needed, that trap wouldn't have happened, Hank would be alive, and his girlfriend would also be alive and Brock wouldn't be an orphan.

Am I simplifying things here or is this accurate? At the very least if Jesse had just left the girl would have been alive.

[Zeus]

I kind of see what you're talking about but I feel as if we've watched two different shows and taken different things from them respectively. I like my show more

But that's what annoyed me about the last ep and a half. It SHOULD have ended with him spiralling down the path to evil, where Heisenberg took over and there was no Walt left. And we saw for a season and a half at least where that kept on happening. The fact that he contracted Jack to kill Jesse was almost the last step. At that point, Walt's BS about protecting his family was almost BS to him and he knew it. Instead, for the end of the show, they bring Walt back and make him masquerade like Heisenberg to try to fix things.

Getting taken to BFN (butt-fuck nowhere) New Hampshire and living the remainder of his life out while dying from cancer and paying someone to spend time with him would been a fitting end, a way for Walt to pay for his incredible transgressions. I woulda been more than happy with that, it woulda been great. The fact that he selfishly left everyone to their misery (Marie dealing with Hank's death, Skylar trying to fend off the FBI, Jesse a slave) is exactly what he was doing anyways, just now without the facade of caring for his family he carried for a couple of seasons that he could hardly keep together.

Regardless of what I may have thought about the last couple of seasons (I never liked them), they were at least consistent. Walt was evil and it was showing. In the end, they did a complete 180. That's why Dexter's direction at the end is better. For at least 6 seasons, we saw Dexter try to become a "normal" human being (with the start of his marriage to Rita and friendship attempt with Miguel), try to develop into one. And, in the end, he did. The show never waivered from that (in fact, it was the only really good and consistent thing about the 8th season, which is why I didn't mind it). The show was always about Dexter's growth and he grew a little more year after year. The way Breaking Bad ended woulda been the equivalent of Dexter killing Hanna, killing David (the serial killer), and tried to destroy the relationships he had with everyone at Miami PD in an effort to distance himself from them so he can go back to the way things were at the beginning of the show, when he could understand them and they woulda been simpler. That woulda been retarded, far worse than even the last minute of that ep

[Zeus]

You know, everything that happened in the last episodes was Jesse's fault. If he had just taken the bullshit Walt had fed him, and not decided he needed revenge for Brock being poisoned(who was still alive and well anyway), Hank wouldn't have gotten the solid evidence he needed, that trap wouldn't have happened, Hank would be alive, and his girlfriend would also be alive and Brock wouldn't be an orphan.

Am I simplifying things here or is this accurate? At the very least if Jesse had just left the girl would have been alive.

Yeah, Jesse started the path to shit and directly led to everything. If had left, Hank woulda had nothing other than his personal belief and pride and woulda had to find another way to get to Walt (through Saul, maybe? That woulda been neat).

But he was always a loose canon throughout the whole show and they used that character to cause shit that didn't need to happen in order to push the story forward the way they wanted but couldn't figure out another way. They weren't inconsistent you just hadn't seen it for a while