The Other Worlds Shrine

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  • Breaking Bad home stretch

  • Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
 #162006  by Shrinweck
 Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:11 pm
Jesse did a lot of shitty things that a lot of people like to overlook. Yeah the character could be a lot of fun and showed remorse but the guy was a murderer and produced just as much meth as Walter, which arguably is worse than murder because you're directly contributing to all the crime and general human misery that gets amplified by drugs. The writers apparently didn't kill him off (which is probably how I would have ended it) because they felt like enough bad things had happened to him... he is in the end some dumb ass kid who got manipulated into a lot of what he did.

I don't understand how you could say they did a complete 180 with Walter though. He threatened death upon Elliot and Gretchen. He poisoned Lydia who will die painfully and leave her child alone and given how much of a rookie she was her crimes will likely come to light, making the child's life shitty. He massacred an entire room full of people. Deserving or not, those are still acts that could only be made by an evil person. He did all these evil things, just like the rest of the series, to satisfy his own ego. Don't forget the thing that convinced him to leave the bar and not turn himself in was the Schartz's interview. Walter was never doing plainly evil shit because he had a screw loose like Tuco, he was doing it because of his ego. That didn't change in the last episode. The only thing that changed was he didn't have a plan to save his own ass at the end of it.

Him dying alone in the cabin would have been an INCREDIBLY shitty ending. It's perhaps what he deserves but it's not what happens in interesting stories. The show needed closure because it was a specific story about specific people and leaving the characters up in the air is something shitty writers do.
 #162013  by Zeus
 Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:24 am
Jesse being allowed to live after his idiocy throughout the series wasn't horrible. Honestly, I've never liked the character at any point and was happy he was regulated to hardly anything in Season 5. I honestly lost interest in him early and didn't really care.

Please. Him going to Elliot and Gretchen was exactly what I was referring to when I said he was no longer Heisenberg and had gone back to Walt White but was just using his rep in his path of redemption. That was the most empty threat ever. He just scared them to ensure Walt Jr got the money because he knew he was about to sacrifice himself and wouldn't be around to make sure it was done. They wouldn't do it without being coerced and they were the only way he could try to make sure it would happen. No danger....

Lydia's death coupled with the destruction of Jack's crew and freedom of Jesse (dead or alive, didn't matter) ensured that the meth empire he built, which was the cause of all the destruction he caused, disappeared. She was as guilty as anyone, she was no angel. Heck, she went along with his plan to ensure Jack would kill him. No sympathy whatsoever.

And killing killers is always a positive act in any movie, TV show, play, or story of any kind in human history. Killing killers because you were one of them to make the worlda better place is an automatic form of redemption.

In a show where it's about the characters as opposed to the plot points, a more subdued ending which fits the character's development is better than just a plot-based one. This is why so many people get lost in the direction of some shows. That's exactly what Sopranos did in Seasons 6 and 7 (sorry, full-length chunks of episodes are a separate season, not parts of each other). I didn't necessarily like how it played out (Tony in a coma was RETARDED and basically ruined the last two seasons) but the idea was perfectly fine.

It's the same with Dexter. Because of Trinity, so many still felt that the show was about Dexter's victims and him chasing down other serial killers (Trinity was so damned good, that's why). But since the beginning of Season 3, it was ALL about Dexter's character development and growth as a human being. Every second of interaction with Miguel, Lumen, Deb, the Colin Hanks character, Hanna, Vogel.....it was all about Dexter becoming a real human being. Even in the Trinity season, that was the driving factor (remember how much time was spent with him trying to figure out how Trinity did what he was trying to do only to find out it was a house of cards?). So when that enormously strong serial killer being gone, people felt the show lost a lot when, in fact, it just had changed gears and they didn't notice. That's why that ending (aside from the last minute) was so fitting (and almost completely ruined for no reason).

And that's why Breaking Bad's last two episodes were so bad. They went against everything they had been doing for 2 full seasons, if not more, just to make a more interesting plot device. Yes, it woulda been a subdued and more boring ending to the show. But it also woulda been FAR more suitable based on the direction of the series and a far better ending in the end.

But this is AMC we're talking about. I shouldn't be too surprised.....
 #162016  by Eric
 Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:31 am
I just disagree, there was nothing Walt did in the last 2 episodes that was righteous or for redemption. Even his final actions were done because he wanted to do it, not out of doing the right thing or asking for forgiveness. He did not know he was about to sacrifice himself Zeus rofl, he had no way out, he was either gonna end up dead, or in prison, or the cancer was going to kill him, either way he wasn't going to be around and had to make sure they got the money to his son.

Those bastards killed Hank and stole his millions, it was revenge plain and simple, I don't know why you keep saying it was to make the world a better place lol. Him giving his son money and his wife the whereabouts of Hank's body was always about protecting his family, whether or not he's done that isn't really up for debate, but he's been spitting that crap for 5 seasons, him doing what he did is EXACTLY in character.

Him letting Jesse live isn't even out of character, it's been established he had a soft spot for the kid, despite all that bullshit they went through, and he clearly had suffered enough. Keep in mind the guy who made the show said Walt went there to kill all of them including Jesse, it wasn't until he saw Jesse that he understood that the betrayal had stopped with Hank and he had been a slave all this time and not a partner.
 #162029  by Shrinweck
 Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:06 pm
Yeah.. I didn't want to outright say that in my posts but I agree.

Net positives aside, at best murdering villains makes you an anti-hero which still gels with what the series did with Walter a great deal of the time. All the people he actually killed he had a STRONG justification for. It doesn't make it any less evil. We're all jaded from the portrayal of violence in fiction and in the media, but taking someones life is ultimately always an evil deed. Even in self-defense many people have and should have a strong negative reaction to taking someones life. There's a reason for that. It's evil. In the end necessary evil isn't any less evil than purposeful, unnecessary evil. Example: dropping the atomic bombs on Japan.
 #162033  by Zeus
 Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:47 pm
kali o. wrote:I've concluded Zeus simply doesn't know what redemption means.
re·demp·tion [ri-demp-shuhn]
1. an act of redeeming or atoning for a fault or mistake, or the state of being redeemed.
Everything he did in the last ep and a half was exactly that
Last edited by Zeus on Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 #162034  by Zeus
 Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:49 pm
Eric wrote:I just disagree, there was nothing Walt did in the last 2 episodes that was righteous or for redemption. Even his final actions were done because he wanted to do it, not out of doing the right thing or asking for forgiveness. He did not know he was about to sacrifice himself Zeus rofl, he had no way out, he was either gonna end up dead, or in prison, or the cancer was going to kill him, either way he wasn't going to be around and had to make sure they got the money to his son.

Those bastards killed Hank and stole his millions, it was revenge plain and simple, I don't know why you keep saying it was to make the world a better place lol. Him giving his son money and his wife the whereabouts of Hank's body was always about protecting his family, whether or not he's done that isn't really up for debate, but he's been spitting that crap for 5 seasons, him doing what he did is EXACTLY in character.

Him letting Jesse live isn't even out of character, it's been established he had a soft spot for the kid, despite all that bullshit they went through, and he clearly had suffered enough. Keep in mind the guy who made the show said Walt went there to kill all of them including Jesse, it wasn't until he saw Jesse that he understood that the betrayal had stopped with Hank and he had been a slave all this time and not a partner.
Exactly. He was gonna try to do what he could to help everyone else out that he had destroyed with whatever time he had left. Hence, redemption

You missed the point. He kept TELLING himself that's why he was doing it, that he was doing it for his family. If that were the case, he would never have stolen the 1000 gallons of methlamine or killed Mike and woulda just walked away with the $5 million like Mike told him to (and is about 7x what he initially wanted.....and he still had a storage unit full of money). He even admitted to Skylar at the end his actions were for selfish reasons and not for his family. The fact he was doing stuff for his family at the end is actually out of character based on the way the last two seasons went.

Soft spot for Jesse? Like hiring Jack to kill him? Walt had a soft spot for Jesse (well, aside from watching his girlfriend die and doing nothing about it even though he knew it was gonna wreck him.......and making him kill the other scientist dude.....) but Heisenberg did not.
 #162035  by Zeus
 Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:55 pm
Shrinweck wrote: In the end necessary evil isn't any less evil than purposeful, unnecessary evil. Example: dropping the atomic bombs on Japan.
Maybe not. But doing an evil with no further repurcussions to destroy a bigger, ongoing evil that you caused is a method of atoning for those previous mistakes. Hence, redemption

Just because Walt did evil to destroy evil doesn't preclude the reasons WHY he did it.