The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • Videogames as sports, gamers as athletes

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #163254  by Julius Seeker
 Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:04 am
"It's a competition just like a sport!"
"These gamers have incredible stamina!"
"Not everyone can be a professional gamer."
"Some of these competitions have more viewers than a 90K capacity stadium."
"These gamers train super hard until they are Godlike, so yes it is a sport."
http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-v ... ed-a-sport

I thought it was really silly when gamers started calling themselves hardcore, but athletes?!?!!?!?
 #163257  by Eric
 Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:10 pm
What Kali said. These guys at the top play these games for a living. Unless you're part of the Fighting Game Community then you probably need another job, darn poverty level money pots. :p
 #163258  by Julius Seeker
 Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:30 am
What are your arguments for video gaming being a sport?

Playing games for a living doesn't apply. There are plenty of other things people do for a living, and the vast majorty of people playing sports aren't doing it for a living.
 #163259  by Eric
 Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:39 am
*Shrug* Not sure what it is you're arguing for or trying to prove or disprove really.

Competitive video games were classified as a sport and the people that played them are considered athletes so said competing players could get travel vistas to attend competitions internationally.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/us-gov ... 0-6411377/

Or do you have issue with the term "sport" being used, because that ship kinda sailed since they've been called e-sports over the past 15 years or so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_sports

It's a silly debate Seek, and not something you should really take up arms for. It's not like golf, motor racing, or archery take a ridiculous amount of physical strength compared to say Soccor or Basketball, but they're still sports. You could argue your hands probably get a better workout then most other things classified as sports. :p
 #163260  by Julius Seeker
 Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:25 pm
Eric wrote:*Shrug* Not sure what it is you're arguing for or trying to prove or disprove really.

Competitive video games were classified as a sport and the people that played them are considered athletes so said competing players could get travel vistas to attend competitions internationally.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/us-gov ... 0-6411377/

Or do you have issue with the term "sport" being used, because that ship kinda sailed since they've been called e-sports over the past 15 years or so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_sports

It's a silly debate Seek, and not something you should really take up arms for. It's not like golf, motor racing, or archery take a ridiculous amount of physical strength compared to say Soccor or Basketball, but they're still sports. You could argue your hands probably get a better workout then most other things classified as sports. :p
I agree, it is a silly topic debate, but for the opposite reason. Videogames are very obviously NOT a sport. Although, I am willing to debate a silly topic, it's been quite a while since we have really debated anything on this site.

Your first point - the Gamespot article:

What essentially happened is that the US department of immigration now grants P-1 work visas to people from other countries in order to compete in videogames; note that this is not an athletic commission, and videogame competitions do not require any kind of sanctioning by state athletic commissions. The department of immigration is hardly a definitive authority. All that has really occurred is that the immigration department of the US has decided they're going to issue competitive viodeogamers the same visas as athletes. If you take a look at the comment section of the article on Gamespot, it is filled with videogamers completely baffled at the article implying that videogames should be considered sports and videogamers should be considered athletes. I agree with the commenters, videogaming has nothing to do with athletics.

As for that wikipedia article, seriously, look at it, do you consider these kids (from your wikipedia article) to be athletes?
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On your other comparisons: Golf, motor racing, and archery? I would most certainly consider golf and archery to be sports as they are competitions that have their basis in physical skill and form; unlike videogaming, which is based in neither. Nascar and F-1 racing; a competition, yes - but I wouldn't consider those to be sports, and I wouldn't consider drivers to be athletes. People will argue that drivers require a degree of physical fitness to compete - which may be true - I certainly don't see this in competitive videogamers, rather what I see is that it is almost the other way around. Motocross is different, it requires athleticism to turn and control the bike.


My own contention would be that a sport is an athletic competition; where physical prowess and physical precision are the primary basis. Sports entered our culture as a peaceful means of competition in events that mimic battle, or have some sort of applicability on the battlefield - such as running, wrestling, weight lifting, throwing, archery, etc....

The clicking of buttons in videogames does not really qualify as athletic activity; it's insignificant. For the majority of videogames (Just Dance, and Wii Fit aside), the skill is a mental exercise. The physical prowess and rate and complexity of button pushing required to play a videogame is significantly less than what is required for me to write this very paragraph - but that hardly makes me an athlete. Would you consider a competitive game show like jeopardy a sport and Ken Jennings an athlete because he hits timer very quickly?

Lastly, the physical activity that goes into videogaming is an indirect input. You are clicking buttons in order to make something happen on the screen that is unrelated to the motion you are making in most cases. This is unlike a direct physical action of hitting a ball, or firing an arrow from a drawn bow. You might argue that actions in something like Rocksmith; but would you consider something like American Idol or some other music precision competition to be a sport?

Realistically speaking, it is a far stretch of the imagination for anyone to ACTUALLY seriously consider videogames to be a sport, rather than a category of game. It's the same faulty reasoning as "mathletes" calling themselves math jocks, rather than math nerds. You can use the title "e-Sport" until you are blue in the face, it doesn't make videogaming a type of sport, nor does it make people who play videogames to be athletes.



PS, is there any way to edit image sizes with BBcode?
 #163262  by Don
 Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:39 pm
The problem with what's a sports is that it's diluted to the point where anything that might be remotely physically tiring can be considered a sports. So if you spent 20 hours camping something in original EQ1 you can be considered that as a feat of endurance. It probably doesn't help that the Olympics seems to always find a way to include some activity that looks less physically demanding than playing a video game. I think they had something to do with horses (not equestrian) where some 78 year old guy was still competing. Or what about competitive eating? ESPN covers it, and I guess it's harder than it looks, but is it a sports? But right now it seems like anything can be called a sports so anyone can be an athlete too.
 #163263  by Eric
 Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:45 pm
Julius Seeker wrote: I agree, it is a silly topic debate, but for the opposite reason. Videogames are very obviously NOT a sport. Although, I am willing to debate a silly topic, it's been quite a while since we have really debated anything on this site.
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Nope, not gonna argue, silly argument is silly. Call it something other then Sports and the gamers that play it other then athletes then, you win! :P
 #163679  by Eric
 Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:32 am
DOTA2 was on Espn 2 yesterday, average joes everywhere were confused! ESPN is a sports channel, why are these videogames on here?!
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 #163684  by Anarky
 Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:18 pm
People consider all kinds of things to be sports. For instance some people argue Body Building is a sport, and as someone who lifts weights 5x a week I don't agree. It's mostly a steroid and vanity thing ;)

eSports is at least competitive and there are obvious skill caps and gaps.
 #163687  by Anarky
 Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:38 pm
Someone should tell these guys they just won 5 Million Dollars.

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These finals were so boring and lackluster compared to TI3 last year and the base race that Na'Vi and Alliance had in their final game... So I guess you could say much like the Superbowl being boring and one sided, eSports is on it's way to sports legitimacy!
 #163688  by Eric
 Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:13 pm
lol there are some unflattering shots of them like that, but they were up there for a 15 or so minutes just taking pictures for the media, at one point they got disinterested.

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 #163690  by Eric
 Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:34 pm
I want to learn to play, but I heard the struggle is kinda real. x_x

I put in enough hours as it is into fighting games.
 #163692  by Shrinweck
 Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:50 pm
I can't get into DOTA2. I played too much LoL and got used to the changes they made. Also I played a bunch of games and just didn't get into a single one of the ten or so DOTA2 heroes I tested. Blizzard's take on MOBAs might end up catching my interest, though. I like what they picked to imitate and dump out of both LoL and DOTA2.
 #163695  by Shrinweck
 Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:19 am
Tessian likes it just fine and since we feel the same way about LoL and DOTA2 I'm more inclined to align with his view :P

In any case, I'm going to reserve judgment until release. I don't find that aspect of LoL to be all that terrible, but then I'm not intending to play ranked matches where something like this would be paramount in min/maxing for a win. Being exposed to toxic players and the anxiety of that kind of competition just doesn't get covered up by the occasional win for me.
 #163697  by Shrinweck
 Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:16 am
Yeah he just linked that. Like I said, there's no use moaning about it yet. It wouldn't be the first time Blizzard ended up implementing something people HATED in theory but ended up loving. It also wouldn't be the first time they said there were going to do something one way and changed their minds later. So, yeah, judgment reserved for release.
 #163701  by Anarky
 Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:25 pm
Eric wrote:Anarky has me on ignore? :(
You know I think I did that thing where you see the link on one site and start to share it with people, and end up resharing it with the original poster.
 #163704  by Eric
 Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:13 pm
Anarky wrote:
Eric wrote:Anarky has me on ignore? :(
You know I think I did that thing where you see the link on one site and start to share it with people, and end up resharing it with the original poster.
lol Tows->Internet->Tows?!
 #163705  by Anarky
 Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:37 pm
Eric wrote:
Anarky wrote:
Eric wrote:Anarky has me on ignore? :(
You know I think I did that thing where you see the link on one site and start to share it with people, and end up resharing it with the original poster.
lol Tows->Internet->Tows?!
Well I was playing DotA2 with some buddies last night who are in the Heroes alpha too, and I sent them the link and we had a bitch fest about how Blizzard was shooting themselves in the foot. And somehow I ended up back on tows forgetting I had seen Eric's post. Oo