Whenever I check out a web browser on Windows, I always look for reasons to continue using IE. I haven't found any yet with Firefox. It's pretty good, check it out.

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox ... irefox/</a>

Whenever I check out a web browser on Windows, I always look for reasons to continue using IE. I haven't found any yet with Firefox. It's pretty good, check it out.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>I like tabbed browsing, but i can live around it. I'm sure one day IE will get that feature. Firefox looks like a great alternative, but IE always works for me and keeps me happy.</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>Firefox is awesome. However I still use IE sometimes because some sites break in anything other than IE. It'll be interesting to see if Mozilla can maintain their browser tech lead now that MS is putting back together their IE team (MS hasn't actually developed for IE in years)...</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>"Putting back together their IE team"?!? Jesus, that explains a lot, like why IE doesn't fully support ten-year-old standards. And this is the flagship product they were touting about during the '98 years,</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>I also like not getting popups. Tabbed browsing is a godsend for people like me, who have about 10 different web sites in different places.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/mo ... vid=145</a>

Check it.</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>Well, that fixes that. Thanks...</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>Yeah, MS stopped developing because they'd won the browser war and there's no more money to be made with browswers. Also, when they release Avalon, they're looking to take over the Internet at a much deeper level. Pretty amazing tech...</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>Yeah, MS stopped developing because they'd won the browser war and there's no more money to be made with browsers. Also, when they release Avalon, they're looking to take over the Internet at a much deeper level. Pretty amazing tech...</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>MS needs to tread carefully with their embrace/extend/conquer techniques, especially since their market share has done nothing but fall over the years.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>From what I can tell, Firefox is a bit faster than IE. On my five year old desktop (550 Pentium III, 384 MB RAM), I appreciate the difference.</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>The only reason they need to tread carefully is because the Justice Department is watching (that's why they allow companies like Apple to exist). Their main problem is that there only so many upgrades of Office and Windows (their two cash cows) people are willing to pay for...</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Not even that, because the JD is fucking weak, like that slap on the wrist they finally gave MS. (Thanks, Asscroft.) But, people are just starting to get annoyed with them and governments are dropping MS like crazy.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Microsoft does not "allow" Apple to exist. Apple provides things Microsoft doesn't, and Apple customers are often very loyal.</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>Not so. MS could have wipped the floor with Apple a long time ago by either using their monopoly position to illegally force them out or legally by buying them outright. However, with them around, they can always claim they have it tough because of their "competition" (see DOJ trial).</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I don't think they would have sold, and I don't see how Microsoft could have penetrated Apple's niche market. Getting 90% of the market is hard. Getting the other 10% is exponentially harder.</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Amazingly, I'm agreeing with Ish on this one. Apple was nothing but niche and even with Jobs in charge, they might have caved to Microshaft if it wasn't for Gates trying to show the gov't there was no monopoly during the investigations</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I still don't buy it. Apple has control over areas of the market that Microsoft has never made attempts to get into. There's no way to know why for sure, but my guess is they figured it would be too hard for little gain.</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>You're mistaking what I'm saying. I'm not saying MS would have to beat them fairly in the market place to remove them (though they already have beaten them int he marketplace). They could just buy them or use their monopoly to destroy them outright.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>To which I've already said I don't think they would have sold, which means it would have been hostile. And if you don't mean beat them in the marketplace, I don't see how they could destroy them outright.</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>You estimated that Apple's markeshare was 10%. It's not. It's like 3% or 4% depending on how many boxes were moved. I didn't correct you before because it wasn't particularly relevent. However I think it's important to show just how tiny Apple's share of the home and business computing world is, despite all the press they get.

Also there was a time in the mid 90's before Steve Jobs was hired back when Apple was falling into what at the time seemed a death spiral. They were close to dying on their very own because nobody cared about them. Bill Gates was so desperate to keep around the semblance of competition that he bought $150 million dollars of Apple stock to help keep them afloat (non-voting share I believe, lest the Justice Department thinks he's trying to run Apple). With Apple losing hundreds of millions per year at the time, I have a hard time believing that Bill couldn't have bought a controlling share if he so desired. It is small potatoes compared to MS after all.


As far as using their monopoly power to force Apple out of business, MS could use the same tactics they used against Netscape and others. For example any stores that sells non Windows boxes, don't get the Windows volume discount. If MS does that to you, you may as well close up shop right now and save yourself the heartache of watching your business self-destruct.</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>They COULD have tried, but they were afraid of monopolistic practice allegations, that was a HUGE deterrent, especially back when Apple was vulernable</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>

You estimated that Apple's markeshare was 10%. It's not. It's like 3% or 4% depending on how many boxes were moved. I didn't correct you before because it wasn't particularly relevent. However I think it's important to show just how tiny Apple's share of the home and business computing world is, despite all the press they get.

If it wasn't for the educational and graphics market (both of wish could be easily replaced by PCs), Apple would cease to be. In fact, I dare say that Adobe is the one thing that's holding Apple afloat. (Well, now the iPod bullshit.)

As far as using their monopoly power to force Apple out of business, MS could use the same tactics they used against Netscape and others. For example any stores that sells non Windows boxes, don't get the Windows volume discount. If MS does that to you, you may as well close up shop right now and save yourself the heartache of watching your business self-destruct.

The problem with that is companies that sell Macs generally only sell Macs anyway. Sure, it would get rid of the few shops that have both, but all of the niche Mac shops would still be around.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>I had to laugh when MS actually started point at Linux as competition during the DoJ trail.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I used 90/10 as an arbitrary example. I know Apple has around 3%. I'll agree that in the past, Microsoft might have been in a position to take over Apple, but not now.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I've used Firefox for quite a while now, the only reason I ever use IE now is when I'm on a computer that doesn't have Firefox; and I just use it to access the download site for Firefox and that's it. I must have converted about 2 dozen people by now.</div>