Tell me this isn't actually true.......

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index ... 3">here</a>

Tell me this isn't actually true.......</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I dont think invoking the first ammendment works, since it was on private property. And thanks, Moore, for continuing to use the preposterous concept of "un-American."</div>

[Agent 57]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>It's on Reuters, which I think pretty much cements its veracity. Also, I think Kupek is right about the private property thing. Don't all businesses reserve the right to kick anyone out for any reason at any time?</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>yeah, he does overdo that quite a bit. And I wasn't debating whether or not they were allowed to do it, I just found it kinda ridiculous that they did</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Sure they do, as long as it's not racial or religious.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>that before the encore she also spent like 10 minutes verbally thrashing the hotel and its staff because she didnt have a good visit. He thought that was probably the real reason she got 'kicked out'. The guy said that maybe 200 people walked out due to the dedication and maybe 2 actually threw a drink on stage due to the F911 comments. It's a casino, a lot of those tickets were comp'ed and i'm sure tons of people were drunk. Also, it was only a one show contract and her show was over. All the 'kicking out' meant was that they had her stuff waiting for her after the show and she wasnt allowed back into her suite and was escorted out, nothing too major.

Besides, Timmins is British and it is his casino. Moore is an idiot (didnt i just say idiots throw out that 1rst amendment defense a little too freely? ha).</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I agree that it's silly, but I find that I'm more annoyed by Moore.</div>

[the Gray]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Is that Bill O'Reilly? That guy twists the truth so much it's like watching a Mad contortionist.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>nah, hes not so bad. You just have to listen to him a lot and then you know what to expect. He occassionally doesnt follow his own 'no spin' rule, but not that often, hes usually pretty good with facts.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>You might find the man entertaining because you share political views with him, but don't confuse that with him actually being a good journalist.</div>

[ManaMan]

<div style='font: 12pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Phhbt! That's retarded. I mean, I could understand if she had said "Yes, I'd like to dedicate this song to Hitler and his systematic erradication of 8 million European Jews...", but getting kicked out for supporting Michael Moore??!!!</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>other journalists dont say they dont have bias because they know they do.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>The Washington Post doesn't have anything near "Fair and Balanced" as their slogan because they don't <i>need</i> to reassure their readers that they strive for (an unobtainable) objectivity. Count next time how many times O'Reilly tries to reassure you that he's not distorting the facts or letting his bias effect how he reports the news. It's a simple, but disturbingly effective, manipulation: if you repeat something enough times, people start to assume it must be true.</div>

[the Gray]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I'd say more, but it appears Kupek is far better able to debunk him than I.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Ahhh...good. I wasn't the only one groaning at the actual content of the letter. Sometimes I think that Michael Moore is just a more political version of Ben Knowles.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>This coming from O'Reilly? Surely you gest. Sorry, but I won't even listen to a "opinion" show run by a proven liar, caller or not.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Pretty good with facts?! He fucking lied about France's imports FROM A QUOTE IN A NEWSPAPER THAT...DOESN'T...FUCKING...EXIST!!!</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Seriously, can you get any lower with the facts? This isn't a case of mistaking a parody for real news. This is just plain making shit up! It would be like him saying "The Russian population's view of the war on Iraq is 95% for the war, as quoted in the recent poll in the Russian Presidential Times".

1. It's totally wrong.
2. It's completely exaggerated.
3. It's definitely biased.
4. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE "Russian Presidential Times"!!

There is absolutely no explanation that would view the quote as an accident. It was purely a lie, a lie that he KNEW was completely made up, and the best he can do with damage control is try to ignore it, because there's no way he can explain his way out of this one.

How can you stand there and try to justify his credibility when the guy has made shit up and flat out LIED?! Michael Moore hasn't even done that. Moore has dodged issues, creatively edited clips, said only half the story, but has never actually lied. Moore's not stupid enough to leave himself open like that. Moore hasn't quoted FICTITIOUS NEWSPAPERS THAT DON'T EXIST!

Pretty good with facts?! My God! I know you're a smart guy, so quit lying to yourself.</div>

[Stephen]

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>I'm actually more concerned by his declaration that Linda Ronstadt is "one of America's greatest singers."</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Heh, me too. And that "Every American loves [Desperado]!" Sorry, but I can speak for myself. I don't need Michael Moore telling me what songs I like.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>It will be inetersting to hear his explaination of the whole thing, which i'm sure he'll talk about today. I know what he said was false, but that is very very atypical.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200407120 ... ocialistic" French, Germans, and Canadian governments? Yeah, Billy...just keep thinking that.</a>

Atypical? Certainly not. Here's three in one day. The second one is so absurd, it's laughable. (On that note, go through the site and search for O'Reilly.)</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>See, this is what i try to avoid. If you ask O'Reilly he will have evidence that supports him, ask MediaMatters and they have evidence against it. With both people saying they are right with backup, you dont know what to believe.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Then research it yourself.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>Which i do, but still have to hear contradictions from both sides. The stuff i find hardly matches either side.</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Why?</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>His attempts at humor fall flat. He's trying to martyr himself. And the two things I previously mentioned.</div>

[Stephen]

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>O'Reilly is an unprincipled charlatan and a buffoon. Even a good number of conservatives find him ridiculous. If you want a right-leaning perspective, there are innumerable better sources.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>to be honest, hes really only listened to because he is inbetween Stern and the Don and Mike show on my talk radio station. I find his show amusing, i get some news, and sometimes i agree with his percpectives - the guy doesnt brainwash me.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I agree with Manaman, that is fairly ridiculous. Getting kicked out for dedicating a song. Right now the ONLY person who it should be illegal to dedicate songs to is Adolf Hitler, and maybe Pol Pot.</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Fair enough</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>My reaction to Moore made me wonder about that; I figured there must be conseratives who viewed O'Reilly and Limbaugh in the same manner I viewed Moore. It's really sad that boorish entertainers end up being political representatives.</div>

[Stephen]

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>There's a tendency for political ideologues of both stripes to forgive their like-minded brethren's intellectual errors, so long as they aren't too egregious. For example, although plently of liberals find Al Sharpton embarrassing, they'll usually refrain from openly criticizing him.</div>

[Stephen]

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>It's perfectly okay to listen to O'Reilly for entertainment value, but I wouldn't even think of citing him as leverage for any point I was trying to make. He's too disingenuous.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>The deciding factor is which evidense is solid enough. Tax rates are a pretty cut-and-dry number. You can't see his quote and see the evidence against it, and say that they are at the same level of knowledgability.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Good...the voice of reason on the other side of the fence.</div>