So, girls, bros, loyalties, trying to figure it all out. I fucked up, tonight, maybe, or at the very least a few people were really pissed off.

[Nev]

<div style='font: 10pt ; text-align: left; '>I'm over at a friend's place tonight, and he says there's a girl coming by who has a boyfriend, but if she ever breaks up with him he wants to be the first in line. So it's him and her and me and his roommate. So she comes over, and I can tell she wants me to get with her from about ten minutes after she comes in.

I'm trying to be the wingman, and steer her in his direction, but it's just not happening, it's not working at all, he's trying to impress her but he's making mistakes or at least doesn't have the attitude right. She's not into it and wanting to spend time with me instead. For about the first two hours I'm still trying to point her towards him, telling him to lose, goddammit, at Soul Calibur if he's going to play with her, trying to steer the evening in the right direction. I've been drinking (but not much, four shots maybe in two hours), so has he, so has she. Eventually, though, she notices that I'm also trying to make her happy, have a good time, show her that I can be hot, and I'm giving her very slight massages, and she's on me, and I'm really turned on. Basically she ended up freaking me in his apartment. I didn't exactly go all out on it, but almost, eventually I was dancing with her and freaking her too.

So we end up going outside, not much really happened, there was physical contact but it didn't get really intense. We talked some too, I said that my friend was going to kill me because he'd invited her over to get with him, and she felt bad because she just wasn't interested in him at all. Meanwhile my friend is checking on us outside every ten minutes, telling me there that he remembered I told him I had to go because I had something to do tomorrow morning (I hadn't), trying to get the homemade DDR pad I'd brought over to his place into my car, and basically giving me indications that he'd be great with me taking off and leaving her there (for that matter, just me getting the hell out). Every time I would try to sort of go in that direction and say "Yeah, I really should go, you should stay here and hang with these guys though," I could tell she had no indication of wanting to stay if I wasn't there. So she would then say she had to go, my friend would try to convince her to stay, I'd say I could hang around for half an hour while I "sobered up" (I was quite good to drive at this point) to try to somehow make this situation more chill. Wasn't going to happen, eventually his other roomate came at me and said with obvious feeling that I was causing bad vibes and breaking trust, "You need to go. I'm going to drive you home." So I said, "That's okay, I'm good, I'm leaving.", and here I am.

I have never been really a "bros before hos" kind of guy, but I know there is a code you don't break when it comes to guys wanting to get with girls, and I have probably broken it. But goddammit. I also know that she wouldn't have been happy if I hadn't stayed, and probably would have left earlier, and goddammit if it just didn't feel so right to be giving her something necessary (or maybe not, but at that at least made her happy). She was not there to play Soul Calibur or watch the O.C., she was there to have fun and flirt and do all the things hot twentysomethingyearolds do. And it just really felt right - it WAS right, I want to say, but I have to admit that there was something there that I can't figure out that I violated.

So I'm trying to figure out why if I've been such an asshole that I feel like I really did something right. Anyway, let me know what you think.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>You tried. You tried hard and the guy wasn't even doing his end right. The rule is that if you fuck it up beyond a reasonable doubt, drop it and quit trying the same chick. He broke that rule, and you kept your end of the bargain. It only goes up to a point before he (supposed) to say "Shit, this ain't working and he's accidently getting her interested in him; I'll cut my losses." It actually sounds like he's the more inexperienced one, because losing in a VG that you're good at is a fucking elementary rule.

In the world of players and playing the game, the object is to get everybody in the group laid, or in the situation that you can't pull that off, get somebody else or yourself laid. Fighting and jealousy breeds anger, distrust, and eventually it gets nobody laid. (Chicks can spot it right away, and it make the anger-ridden person even more undesirable, and in most cases, screws it up for the entire group.) That short scene in A Beautiful Mind, when he's talking about the blonde chick with her girlfriends, actually rings true.

Explain the situation straight up with him. After all, if the chick isn't interested in him, she isn't going to change her mind. If he's being a dick about it, fuck him. You don't need "friends" that don't understand that you're being REALLY nice to him by trying to ignore the obvious flirtations for a good part of the night, especially if he doesn't understand that you can't just "claim ownership" to a girl and expect it to pan out 100% of the time. (Women have a brain, you know.) You should stick with the chick, who was intelligent enough to spot the exact situation and read through it. (Including your own part in the "scheme", which is the reason why his actions didn't screw it up for you. Telling her the truth about that scored you points in the end.)

You did happen to get her number, right?</div>

[Lox]

<div style='font: bold 9pt ; text-align: left; '>At some point, it should have been pretty obvious. Remember that these kinds of rules go both ways and this guy wasn't holding up his end of the friend bargain by kicking you out when it was obvious that she was interested in you and not him. He should have done what a friend does and helped you out then, just like you were doing for him.

And I'm very much into not screwing your friends over for girls. If it was the sort of the thing where you hadn't even tried or screwed him over on purpose from the start, then you'd be in the wrong, imo. But here, you did the best you could. And you are supposed to be happy too, you know.

I agree that you should talk to him about it and explain it all.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Don't buy into that shit. She's not a a piece of steak; you can't call dibs. I say find out her phone number and call her - she obviously liked spending time with you. If your friend can't handle that, then he's not much of a friend.</div>

[Nev]

<div style='font: 10pt ; text-align: left; '>No, I didn't...LOL. He has it. That's going to be a fucked up situation.</div>

[Nev]

<div style='font: 10pt ; text-align: left; '>I know, I know. That's the way I play the game if that had happened to me, too, unless I have REAL feelings for someone. In that case all the rules change. But I'm sure he just wanted to get with her, and I was the only one who was getting that right.</div>

[Nev]

<div style='font: 10pt ; text-align: left; '>That's what I hope...but he's part of a group I was just starting to hang out with and I have no desire to get myself banned from weekly poker nights (at least they're at someone else's place, not his) when they're the first real social in that I've had in a long time. Still I think you're right.</div>

[Nev]

<div style='font: 10pt ; text-align: left; '>As a humorous aside, I put her life bar on infinite life and TOLD him to lose and he's still trying to ring her out like nobody's business. I think the fact that she's even willing to play video games at all was something he should have been happy about.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Well, your "friend" sounds like a dick and a creep by your story.</div>

[Nev]

<div style='font: 10pt ; text-align: left; '>If I invited a girl over to get with and she got with someone else I might be pissed too. But usually if someone's not into it I don't keep insinuating myself at them...he's a good guy, and funny, just hasn't developed much play yet.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>1) Women, despite their lack of logic, abuse of telephones, over emotionalism, are still human beings. A relationship involves two people. In this century, and for the most part in western culture, guys and girls are equal partners in the relationship, unless it is one of those fucked up abusive ones.

2) Picture things this way, if a GUY invited YOU over to get with you; obviously you wouldn't be interested because you're not gay, and would probably be very repulsed even if the dude is an acquaintance of yours; would you not find that even at least a little bit creepy? What if the guy continued to pursue you? Well, that's probably fairly close to how she feels.

3) Guys do not kick other guys out of parties because they are better with the ladies than they are; that is incredibly disrespectful. So a "friend" kicking a "friend" out is just downright insulting; he punched you in the face, then spit on you for no good reason.

4) The reason why he is having such a hard time "getting play" is because he is going after girls who are not interested in him. He's also going all about it the wrong way so the girls he does like are going to be very turned off of him; it seems like he's trying to trap her into liking him, which is damn creepy. Tell him if he wants "easy play" that he should go to the clubs, act loose, and keep cool. Of course, easy play is only if you're looking for easy sex. It probably won't end you up in a good relationship because 99.5% of the time girls who are that easy are either going through a depressional phase or are just plain fucked up; when girls get like that they fantasize about dumb things like picking up at the bar. The other 0.5% are sex addicts (just like the 30% of the guy population that goes to the bars all the time to pick up).</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '><i>2) Picture things this way, if a GUY invited YOU over to get with you; obviously you wouldn't be interested because you're not gay, and would probably be very repulsed even if the dude is an acquaintance of yours; would you not find that even at least a little bit creepy? What if the guy continued to pursue you? Well, that's probably fairly close to how she feels. </i>


Lemme get this straight, you dont invite girls you are interested in over to your place? When i was in college and trying to be with my now wife i invited her over all the time to hang out with me and my friends. Not only does she get to see your place, she gets to spend time with the people that mean the most to you.

If you ask me, i think she was being a slut. I think she absolutely knows that Mental's friend is into her, so why would she slap HIM in the face by flirting incecently with Mental? If i was her and in that situation where i liked the hosts friend more than the host, i would not have flirted in his face and would have held that off until after i told the host i wasnt intersted. Also, she currently has a boyfriend... this is not the kind of girl i would pursue let alone flirt with.

Menatl was wrong to do that (think about the bf, that could be you one day), the girl is a slut, and the friend was wrong, but in a less degree than Mental or the slut.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Woah, woah, woah. So if a girl goes to hang out with a bunch of guys, she's a slut?</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>And for all you know, she may have been playing games with you to "prove" something to someone else. Don't make me explain it further, because it won't make any sense (the female mind thing...sorry Seraphina. :) ). But trust me, it happens. Screw her and find someone who isn't being puppy-dogged by your friends.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I guess I didn't read the post closely enough, I was under the impression that she was breaking up with her boyfriend or something. But yeah, Mental, it sounds like you're hanging with the wrong type of crowd; they sound like a nightmare. Then again, I wasn't there, so I don't know the exact context of the situation, but this is how my opinion will stand for now.</div>

[Lox]

<div style='font: bold 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Because she flirted with Mental in front of the friend, who she probably knows is interested in her, instead of waiting until a later time when the friend wouldn't have been an issue and because Mental stated that she already has a boyfriend and is still doing all this...that's why she's a slut.

Not necesarily agreeing with Flip, though she doesn't sound like the greatest catch. I'm just not sure what you derived your response from.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>There are better friends out there, if it really comes to that. I suspect that you're like me with friends: you prefer to have few of them, but the ones you have are very good friends.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>One, there was already indications by Mental's story that the girl only had the boyfriend because she wanted somebody else in line before breaking up with him. I'm not the one to follow those type of rules, but there are some that do, and I usually don't hold it against them. Long-term relationships and marriages are usually where I find fault in that behavior, especially if it's long-term cheating without trying to break off from the previous relationship or "sport-fucking" with a wife in tow. (On a related note, you cannot divorce because of cheating, but you can divorce because of lack of sex.)

Two, women do not act directly at all. This is the reason why there's all of these fucking rules and "The Game" and everything else. If it was really that simple, the phrase "wanna fuck?" or even "let's have sex" wouldn't be taboo among the horniest of girls. (Gee, that's the whole point of flirting, to INFER sex without actually SAYING sex.) Even when you're at the point of throwing clothes off, the worst you can get away with is "let's go to the bedroom". So, you have to rely on hints and subtle signs that they give you to communicate their ideas. Hell, even his "friend" was giving hints to throw him out instead of telling him directly "I'm jealous of you, so leave". So, you saying that she has to wait until she "told the host that she wasn't interested" is off the mark. It's a last resort for a woman (or in some cases, a guy) to rely on direct communication, and even then, she's only going to do it when she's fine with burning bridges behind her. In this case, the host invited her, so she wasn't going to do that, but she did give him hints that "hey, I know you invited me here, but I find your friend more interesting." (I hate The Game more than a lot of people, but I acknowledge that not everybody is into the whole direct communication and say-what-the-fuck-you-really-mean attitude.)

Three, the guy's feelings for the other chick really don't matter. Guys want to get into the pants of 90% of the women out there, and they know this. In the words of Chris Rock, every time a man talks to a woman, he's asking if she wants some dick. That's what women feel about a guy's "feelings", especially among first impressions or invites involving one chick and a bunch of alcohol. So, she's not "slapping the guy in the face". She's saying that she doesn't want dick, or at least from an asshole that pretends to claim ownership over a woman.

Four, there's nothing wrong with sex. Nothing wrong with a chick wanting sex, sex on a first date, a chick that sleeps with a lot of guys, etc. Quit using the word slut like it doesn't apply to you or every other fucking guy on this board.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>Maybe you have never been burned by a girl who you thought was your g/f before or dont know anyone who has, it isnt pretty.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I had completely forgotten she had a boyfriend. That makes me skeptical about whether or not she was actually flirting with Mental. Instead, it could have been she knew this other guy wanted to get with her, and Mental was the only one who wasn't acting like a moron. Hence, she talks to him instead of anyone else, and tries to stay away from that guy. But calling her a slut because she's talking to other guys - <i>talking</i> - is ridiculous.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I don't see what that has to do with the points Sine brought up. A girl with a boyfriend going to hang out with a bunch of guys is not cheating, nor does it make her a slut.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>You admit forgetting she had a BF and didnt you see the words flirt, freak dance, or 'physical contact while outside'? They werent just talking. Tell me you would be happy if your GF freak danced and was leaning up on a guy or whatever they were doing outside and not be pissed.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>The point was, slut is just a word that means promiscuous. A girl with a BF flirting, freak dancing, and doing whatever the 'physical contact while outside' was are actions of a promiscuous girl.</div>

[Gentz]

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>This is, like, a quintessentially awkward situation. Hanging out with relatively new friends, one tells you "I really want this girl", and she gets there and is instantly attracted to you. That's like something out of a Ben Stiller movie, man. It's hard being the "new guy" in a group of friends, and this is the kinda thing that can destroy months of relationship building through no fault of your own.

But everyone seems to be acting like this guy is some petty, sex-crazed jackass, and I don't think that's necessarily the case. I'm not sure how well you know these people, but I'm guessing not very. And I'm not sure how much info you have on the history of this dude and this girl, but for all <I>I</i> know he could have had a crush on this girl for a very long time. Maybe a similar situation to this one happened between him and her current boyfriend even. If this were just some random girl he decided he wants to bang that's one thing, but we don't seem to know how much emotional involvement he has in this. Maybe it's not that he was trying to be a dick to you necessarily, but that he was just so hurt that he was behaving irrationally. Then again, of course, he may just be a dick after all...but it's worth at least talking with him about it, explaining your side of the story, and trying to get things back to square.</div>

[Lox]

<div style='font: bold 9pt ; text-align: left; '>We have no reason to believe that Mental is exaggerating (purposefully or accidentally) really. So you can't really call Flip on calling her a slut for "talking" to guys, because according to Mental, she was flirting and that's different. Slut probably is strong. More likely, she's just a girl who doesn't have as much concern for other people's feelings or opinions.

All I have to say, since I'm not really going to make a judgement on her with the info we have, is that Mental needs to be careful with her, but not to worry about this other guy because he was in the wrong.</div>

[Lox]

<div style='font: bold 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I agree with the talking to him part. Good points about his history with the girl.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Not really. Slut is an insult. Compare it with "player."</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '><a href="http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?b ... va=slut</a>

notice the lack of "usually offensive" unlike this one...

<a href="http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?b ... =nigger</a>

Maybe i'll just use promiscuous next time, even though they are synonyms.</div>

[Blotus]

<div style='font: 10pt "arial narrow"; text-align: left; padding: 0% 5% 0% 5%; '>Personally, I'll stop calling girls sluts when they stop dressing like sluts.</div>

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

<div style='font: 12pt georgia; text-align: left; padding: 0% 5% 0% 5%; '>Fuck the dictionary! Slut is never ever used in a positive or neutral way.</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>sorry Flip, but this is a case of society over all. No one gives two shits what the dictionary says, no one EVER uses it in a positive or neutral term</div>

[my cookies don't work eve]

<div style='font: ; text-align: left; '>I invaded his space is the main thing. I wasn't supposed to be part of the equation at all. And he did invite her over for him, spent the day cleaning, etc.

He thinks I'm a goddamn traitor. I asked my other friend about it and he said that if it had been him he would have thrown me out the window, not the door. That got the point across pretty well. This other friend is a lot more direct, and that would have played out in the evening too, but generally the prevailing opinion is that I was an asshole and need to apologize.</div>

[Ishamael]

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>We don't want that....</div>

[my cookies don't work eve]

<div style='font: ; text-align: left; '>Whoa there Flip. What is going on here? That word slut has a lot attached to it.</div>

[my cookies don't work ev]

<div style='font: ; text-align: left; '>Just as a question, Flip, are you conservative Christian?</div>

[my cookies don't work eve]

<div style='font: ; text-align: left; '>For those interested in the developing story, enough people think I'm wrong that I think I probably fucked up. More as things progress.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>I'm not really religious or atheist, and i consider myself a conervative independent (almost libertarian) when it comes to politics. So usually it is just ethics and morals and what i feel is right that are behind my opinions, not teachings or preachings.</div>

[Lox]

<div style='font: bold 9pt ; text-align: left; '>He can't even figure out to lose on purpose when you're telling him to??? Doesn't sound like she had a tough decision when it was between you and him. ;) heh</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>You should have picked up the controller and beat the shit out of her, then let your friend beat you. That's always a nice turn off. Trust me, I've done it many times. lol.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>And I don't mean phsyically beating her with the controller for all you sick puppies out there!</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Actually, you're right about my assessment. I forgot she had a girlfriend, so when I read the paragraph about how he knew she was interested, I just said "Right, she's interested, moving on."</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I have never encountered a use of the word "slut" that was not derogatory.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Then it was a misunderstanding, and you should talk to him about it.</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>I wouldnt say it is a positive word, but i've seen it be basically neutral. Meaning, i've seen girls be called sluts to their face by guys and other girls and not be overly offended. Compare it to calling you an 'idiot', you wouldnt flip your lid.</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>And I've known girls who have been hurt by the word. It implies that there is something wrong with a girl being very sexually active.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Seriously though, perhaps you should move to some other locations temporarilly. In the North, at least, it is actually alright to dance, flirt, put your arm around and watch movies with girls who are not your girlfriend, even if you have a girlfriend. A slut means a girl who has sex with a lot of guys; and where I am from it's innapropriate to use that term in the company of women. In the company of guys, the word slut often has the meaning of "an easy way for a good time" =)</div>

[Flip]

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>Tell me you would be happy to hear that your GF flirted, rubbed up against all night dancing, and flirted all night. Gimme a break.</div>

[cookie monster]

<div style='font: ; text-align: left; '>much depends on situation and I don't think i would easily be ready to use that strong a word. "slut" is almost up there with "fag" and "nigger" in hate terms (though at least it's for something they did instead of who they are).</div>

[cookie monster]

<div style='font: ; text-align: left; '>no way...slut is a hate word where i come from.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>You can't throw it in that category, after all in porn the girls call themselves sluts all the time. "I'm such a nasty little slut" ;p</div>