The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • According to Gamespot, Xenosaga basically replaces random battles with cutscenes and that there isn't much gameplay in the game. I, for one, am all for this. That's what made the original so good IMO

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #33334  by Zeus
 Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:38 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>According to Gamespot, Xenosaga basically replaces random battles with cutscenes and that there isn't much gameplay in the game. I, for one, am all for this. That's what made the original so good IMO</div>

 #33335  by Julius Seeker
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:57 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Somehow I think we played a different Xenogears, the first one had plenty of battles and exploration involved.</div>

 #33337  by Lox
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:01 am
<div style='font: bold 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Wouldn't that make it more of an interactive movie than a real game? heh</div>

 #33339  by Julius Seeker
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:16 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I hope not, I absolutely hated Riven and Myst.</div>

 #33341  by Zeus
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:41 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I very much enjoyed the long cutscenes in the original because they were so damned good and the story kicked ass. I just want more of the same</div>

 #33342  by Zeus
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:42 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Well, the prob with the original was the fact that the gameplay was very shallow and boring for a while. What saved it was the story sequences. Looks like they're just eliminating that here, which is a good thing IMO</div>

 #33343  by Julius Seeker
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:28 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Actually, There weren't many cutscenes in Xenogears, and the longest was the introduction.</div>
 #33344  by SineSwiper
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:57 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>Was I the only one that enjoyed the gameplay in XG? It had FUCKING COMBOS! Jesus...the only thing that disappointed me with the gameplay was the fact that the final battle didn't have any character battles, and that the combos for the gears weren't that great.

I enjoyed Disc Two because it had a great storyline, but I'm not sure about this whole "eliminating random battle" shit. I think Gamespot is full of shit on this one, considering the game isn't even out yet.</div>
 #33345  by Julius Seeker
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:25 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>The ending of the game was kind of ruined on disc 2 when they kept cutting out of the story and showing Fei sitting in the chair while words came accross the screen at a painfully slow pace. Monolothsoft even commented that this was not the original intention of the team, they had to rush it to get the game out on time. So instead of having a solid ending, they chopped it up into scenario's. The story sequences aren't really that long either, maybe a minute and a half to three minutes, it's just the fact that they moved by so slowly, they have about 20 seconds of reading go by over a 3 minute period, it gets annoying. Other than that, disc two a lot of Gameplay, a very high concentration of boss battles and moving through Dungeons (the Anima ruins were some of those were among the best dungeons in the game, Mahanon, and Merkava which is one of the longest dungeons in the game).

One of the best things about Xenogears was its characters, and the different places to explore. The game has a lot of interaction involved which is mostly about the gameplay. The story was more or less a loose rehash of several very well known European Science Fiction novels meeting Evangellion which was a famous Japanese anime; actully, at a lot of parts I could have sworn it was Brave New World meets Evangellion. The naming scheme was based largely on the Hebrew language and tradition (Shevat, Zeboim, Nisan, Cain, Abel, Aveh (Av), Lacan, Elru, Kislev, etc..).

Xenogears is a great game, and I think you are very much cheapening the game overall by saying only the plot was good. There were a lot of other great things about the game too. Saying the game0play is shallow is just BS, in comparisson to most RPG's it is actually fairly deep: with all the interactivity, exploration, puzzels, battle system (Gear customization, two types of battles), etc...</div>

 #33346  by Julius Seeker
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:39 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://resonatorsoft.org/tows/cgi-bin/r ... 65.html</a>

I didn't like the story much on disc 2 compared to disc 1, mainly because they chopped it all up into smaller less detailed and developed scenario's instead of having it full and in detail like on the first disk. I loved the Gameplay in Xenogears though, read my other post</div>

 #33347  by Julius Seeker
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:40 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://resonatorsoft.org/tows/cgi-bin/r ... 65.html</a>

I didn't like the story much on disc 2 compared to disc 1, mainly because they chopped it all up into smaller less detailed and developed scenario's instead of having it full and in detail like on the first disc. I loved the Gameplay in Xenogears though, read my other post</div>

 #33348  by Stephen
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:03 pm
<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Terrific! All the more time for shameless, self-indulgent pseudo-philosophical kitsch on the order of Evangelion, only much, much more stupid. Brought to you by Japan's finest team of wannabe screenwriters and directors.</div>

 #33349  by Manshoon
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:13 pm
<div style='font: 14pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>I've heard most of the cutscenes take place in the first few hours of the game, after that it plays out normally.</div>

 #33350  by Kupek
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 3:37 pm
<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Yeah, until you try to "play" it again.</div>

 #33351  by Manshoon
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 4:49 pm
<div style='font: 14pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>I think there was one on the second disc that went on for 45 minutes or so.</div>

 #33352  by Zeus
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:04 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Yeah, I shoulda said "story sequences" rather than "cutscenes"</div>

 #33353  by Zeus
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:06 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>What was shitty about Xenogears' gameplay was that it was shallow. It was great for the first 25 or so hours (12 of actual gameplay) but then it just became tedious. Get to the deathblows or infinity level with gears, that's it</div>

 #33354  by Zeus
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:08 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>The gameplay WAS good.....for the first half of the first disc. But it ultimately proved to be shallow. That's what made it dull</div>

 #33355  by SineSwiper
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 9:40 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>That's sorta like the beginning of Xenogears. There was a lot of filler in the first few hours.</div>

 #33356  by SineSwiper
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 9:42 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>But, it seems like your putting down the gameplay of Xenosaga before you've even played it. Maybe the gameplay in XS is actually a lot better than XG?</div>

 #33357  by SineSwiper
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 9:43 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>I understood that the second disc was rushed just by looking at it. Since they can take their time with XS, I think there will be less of a rush with it.</div>

 #33359  by SineSwiper
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 10:06 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>The only thing slowing it down was a lack of a speed scroller function. Chrono Cross's FF button was awesome, and should be put in every game.</div>

 #33360  by Manshoon
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 10:55 pm
<div style='font: 14pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>And from all reports, it is.</div>

 #33361  by the Gray
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:07 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I have to agree! I've Argued with Zeus about this in person, I too liked the battles in XG's</div>

 #33363  by Ganath
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:33 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Ahh... as opposed to finding the KotR materia and joyfully using it again and again ad infinitum. Good point Zeus.</div>

 #33364  by Ganath
 Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:35 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I don't think the gameplay for many RPGs has been anything other than shallow. At least with XG I could sorta pretend I wasn't using yet another godforsaken menu driven system. It was a special menu driven system.</div>

 #33365  by Zeus
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 12:29 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I thought CC had an excellent system. It took me about 15 hours to warm up to it, but ultimately, I loved it. Kinda the opposite of XG, which I adored in the beginning but ended up not liking</div>

 #33366  by Eric
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:01 am
<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Errr Zeus didn't like FFVII, please don't get him started because nobody wants to hear it.</div>

 #33367  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:21 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>When in doubt throw more scientific terms and hope you can confuse them long enough they might forget there's supposed to be a story!</div>
 #33368  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:28 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>The battle system is like Xenogears but it takes longer and it doesn't look quite as cool (at least I have yet to see anything that looks remotely as cool as the Xenogears 7 point combos). You've this boost system which supposed to let you concentrate all your attacks on key rounds except the enemy's boost always beats yours so for example when the critical round comes up on the reel, you can try to boost and get one really strong attack in but if the AI feels like it, they'll just boost on that round and do their super attack of doom.

The only thing I like about Xenosaga is KOS-MOS's comment and how Junior sounds like a dumb Japanese trying to learn English ("Gooooo Ahe-ad, Makeeee my dayyyyy"). Unfortunately I know they'll screw up the latter in the American version since I'd hope whoever does his voice can actually speak English.</div>

 #33369  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:29 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Yeah like RPG battle systems require lots of planning...</div>

 #33370  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:31 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Yes, it takes a while to figure out you're supposed to use defend a lot since that function is useless in just about any other RPG, but other than that, it's no different from any other RPG</div>

 #33371  by Eric
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:54 am
<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Errr, you have to defend in Xenogears?</div>

 #33372  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:56 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>No, Chrono Cross</div>

 #33374  by Ganath
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:44 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>If Zeus's numerous complaints include that ridiculously annoying menu driven system, then god bless the man! :)</div>

 #33375  by Ganath
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:47 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Well I haven't had the pleasure of playing CC... but I find that the gameplay of 90% of RPGs out there can be summed up with "Fight" "Magic" "Item".</div>

 #33377  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 5:07 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Well, in CC it's a good idea to defend with your last action point but that's about it.</div>

 #33378  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 5:15 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Who needs KoTR when you have healing? It's about the most broken concept in RPGs ever. As long as you've MP, your characters are basically immortal.</div>

 #33379  by Zeus
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:01 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I have a similar complaint about FF7, remember?</div>

 #33380  by Zeus
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:02 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I learned to deal with menus, it's the lack of balance in the FF7 system that killed it</div>

 #33381  by Zeus
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:04 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I also liked the fact that spells and items were all done similarly and that you had to be much smarter since you could only use each spell once per round (for the most part). I liked that</div>

 #33385  by SineSwiper
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:49 am
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>Yeah, none of this crap about using the same high-powered spell over and over again. Also, the summons were really hard to pull off.</div>

 #33386  by SineSwiper
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:52 am
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>This coming from yet another person who hasn't played the game.</div>
 #33388  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 3:56 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Xenosaga's system is exactly the same as any other RPG except the for the reels and the boost feature but since the enemy can always beat your boost with their boost the tactical usefulness of boost is actually pretty low since you can never beat the AI's boost on the rounds you really need to boost.

I don't necessarily dislike the game but it's really annoying how people are treating an antiquated engine with some ripoffs from Diablo 2 (skill tree system) and a gimmick that doesn't even work on the boss you really need to use it for as good gameplay.</div>
 #33389  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:15 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>This isn't any better than using your strongest attacks over and over because in essence the attack command is now your strongest attack. The action points limit how many spells you can get off but since you will have a net gain in action points if most of your action is attack you can always get them off. The game is scaled to a reasonable number of healing spells so that nothing does excessive damage minus a few exceptions which actually makes the game pretty trivial because you have a lot of elbow room before the boss can kill you.</div>

 #33395  by Zeus
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:17 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>You need a balance of both attacking and magic spells to get through the game properly. It doesn't allow any one thing to overtake the other and you actually have to use all your characters and no one character is best at everything. That's balance</div>
 #33398  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:46 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>There is no decision on how to balance your spells since you only get to use them once so you might as well use whatever attack spells you have as early as possible. None of the bosses do anywhere near enough damage to kill you even with just the default amount of healing magic/items you equip via auto, and if you actually manually stock up extra HealAll or HealingWinds it's almost impossible to lose.

The only thing you can't do is have multiple people go to -6.0 action points because you lose a whole turn (7.0 points) if everyone is defending or no one has positive action points.</div>

 #33399  by Don
 Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:47 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Give me a RPG system and I can break it. If something isn't broken, you're just not looking hard enough.</div>

 #33401  by Stephen
 Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:12 am
<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Don, if I should ever be so lucky to design an RPG one day, I'm hiring you to program the battle system.</div>