The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • Xenosaga Episode II has evolved significantly in the gameplay field from the first installment. If you haven't played Xenosaga Episode I, I very highly recommend getting it, if you are an RPG fan, your collection should not exclude this game...

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #38513  by Julius Seeker
 Mon May 31, 2004 7:16 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>First I will begin with a mini-review of Xenosaga: it's a game I've played twice so far and if nothing comes up in the next year, then I'll probably play it through a third time. I highly recommend it, it's not a game that you'll have to worry about taking forever to finish, it is shorter than most Square-Enix RPG's, and of a much higher quality. I can honestly say that I liked this game, at the very least, about twice as much as Final Fantasy 10; it beats it in every single category. It's currently my favourite game on PS2 for the following reasons: KOS-MOS, Shion, Zigurat, and all of the other characters are incredibly interesting. The game for beginners might seem very overwhelming for the first few hours, but once you get past that point it becomes an addiction, kind of like the first 10-12 hours of Xenogears. The gameplay does feel a lot more engaging than many other RPG's, it does not have a traditional random battle encounter system, rather it is similar to Grandia, Earthbound, and Lunar where enemies are all on the screen. You can use variour tricks to avoid enemies, such as turning on a hologram machine which will draw the attention of the enemy and allow you to slip by unnoticed. The game does not have as many battles in it than a typical RPG due to the system. Like Xenogears, the game is highlighted by long story sequences and long gameplay sequences; and like Xenogears (speaking from my own perspective) both phases of the game are of top quality. One thing that I can say about the game is that it is certainly very fun. If you do not want to watch a story section because you have already seen it (in my re-playthrough I watched everything except some of the opening phases of the game and still found them interesting) you can skip them; speaking of story sequences, unlike other RPG's, in Xenosaga you can pause the game during these section; story sections all include voice acting, and I found it to be much better done than FF10's voice acting sequences. The game does not cost very much money, it is definately worth it and I recommend it to everyone here.


Now onto my topic, Xenosaga Episode II: Jenseits von Gut und Bose


First of all, Episode 2 will include an option similar to Final Fantasy 10 where you can switch characters into battle without any turn cost. Xenosaga will likely utilize this system better, as I recall with Final Fantasy 10, they blew it, 98% of the time I switched guys into battle was so that I could gain experience for the whole party, in order for a character to gain experience in FF10, they must make an action of some sort in battle. In Xenosaga episode I it is different, every character gains experience points as long as they are alive at the end of the battle, regardless if they are in the actual battle or not. For example, you could go the entire game without using Zigurat (with the exception of his sub-sections).

Secondly, characters can now use dual techs similar to what was seen in Chrono Trigger. This is something I hope is well utilized, Chrono Trigger utilized it amazingly well, I felt that in a "New Game" mode (as in not New Game +) it felt as an integral part of the gameplay, and one that certainly was easy and fun to use.

There is also a feature which allows characters to target weak points of enemies, the best example I can think of here is in Vagrant Story, a game which in a way invented this system (though it had been used in previous Epic Adventure games, I felt that Vagrant Story was the first menu-based style game in which it didn't feel as just a sort of gimmick).

Probably the most immediate improvement seen is in the graphics, they took the already beautiful graphics of Xenosaga and improved the quality of them. Also, if you have completed game data from the first game you get some additional costumees for the characters; From the screens so far it seems that Zigurat gets a black suit that looks almost like a wet suit, while KOS-MOS wears body paint instead of her regular armour.

Lastly, Gear battles have been changed back towards the Xenogears style, now they can't be switched in and out of battle, you either fight the battle in a gear or fight it out of the gear. This will make for some more balanced gameplay than could be found in the previous game. Speaking of Gears, there are some Screenshots which show KOS-MOS's Gear, and it appears that her Gear is none other than the God Gear (Also called "Xenogears") from the game Xenogears.</div>

 #38520  by SineSwiper
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:33 am
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Uhhh...is it out already?</div>

 #38522  by Don
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:49 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>No, I don't think it's even out in japan yet, Seeker's probably just reading a preview he saw somewhere.</div>

 #38524  by Derithian
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:13 am
<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>Holf Fuck! a post without mentioning how cool Fate is. I never thought I'd see the day.</div>

 #38525  by Stephen
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:27 am
<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Love those cherry-picked Nietzsche quotes. I hope they call Episode III "Die Fröhliche Wissenschaft."</div>

 #38526  by SineSwiper
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:51 am
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Sorry, Stephen, but my German is just a little bit rusty. Wir müssen die Juden ausrotten?</div>

 #38527  by Stephen
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:02 am
<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Der Fröhliche Wissenschaft = The Gay Science.</div>

 #38528  by Don
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:45 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Well, I was going to say if you want to play a game you cannot possibly comprehend, you might as well play Fate because it at least has better music.</div>
 #38529  by Don
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:52 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>And the girls of Fate are 100% fan service as opposed to 33% (KOS-MOS is the only girl that can be considered as remotely attractive out of the girls in Xenosaga).</div>
 #38530  by Don
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:23 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>This deserves a second reply. If by interesting, you mean completely stupid and clueless, you'll be right. Shion epitomizes everything that is wrong with Xenosaga. She's basically a retarded person whose redeeming quality is supposed to be that she's the chosen one, just like how Xenosaga is supposed to be redeemed when they actually bother to explain what the hell is going on. This is probably the worst gimmick a RPG can run. Just because the game says soandso is meant to be the chosen doesn't mean they're suddenly cool. It didn't work with Squall, and it won't work with Shion Uzuki. It's circular character development. You're supposed to believe Shion isn't just a dumb ditz who happened to luck out because she's chosen by Nephilim and whatnot, but this doesn't work, because:

1. If she's not the chosen she'd just be another pile of uninteresting salt killed by the Gnosis.
2. Even being chosen by Nephilim and being the only human not to turn into a Gnosis after touched by a Gnosis and all that good stuff, she still acts like a ditz.

But then, Xenosaga is hardly alone in being delusional thinking people should just take a game's narration for face value. Like the player is just supposed to suspend your sense of belief so much to believe that some uninspiring overused character is supposed to be this super awesome incredibly character because the game said it is.</div>

 #38531  by SineSwiper
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:31 am
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>I got "The merry science" from Google, but oh well...</div>

 #38544  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:40 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>It's about to be released in Japan.</div>
 #38545  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:08 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Shion wasn't my favourite character in the series, but I certainly didn't hate her. The reason why she survived the initial Gnosis attack is because she is obviously an instrumental character, which would also explain why they have KOS-MOS programmed to defend her. It is not something to be questioned now because the answers aren't in the first installment, they are in Episode II. It would be like questioning why Sarah Conner has some sort of elite soldier from the future defending her before it is even revealed that she is the mother of the leader of their resistance in the movie "The Terminator". Or perhaps why Rand and company in The Wheel of Time never seem to die against all odds in the first few books.

Squall is powerful because he is a GF enhanced elite military soldier; he was chosen because that is what the script writer decided to do. I do not see what your problem is with Squall, you don't even really understand his character which was quite apparent when you compared him to Shinji who didn't really have any simularities to Squall whatsoever; mainly that Squall was a confident character, and Shinji didn't seem to have any confidence and rather always wished to shy away from duty. Perhaps you would like his character had you never visited the GIA forums back a few years ago.</div>
 #38556  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:27 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Also, you are in the vast minority, you are the only person who I have talked to who has played Xenosaga and has not liked it. The only other people who I have heard say bad things about it are fanboys on the IGN forums, and their opinions don't count for anything since they only like games that are on a specific system.</div>

 #38557  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:31 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>You couldn't comprehend Xenosaga?</div>

 #38559  by Stephen
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:29 pm
<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>That's right, it did. Only in recent decades has the word "gay" been largely appropriated to signify "homosexual."</div>

 #38561  by Stephen
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:37 pm
<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Toastyfrog.com has made Xenogears-bashing a beloved sport.</div>

 #38562  by Don
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:42 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Because there's no actual story... it's all a bunch of 'this will be explained eventually and it'll be really cool'. That's not a story and it's not understandable because it's not explained.</div>

 #38564  by Don
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:46 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>God Gear is the Omnigear. There are many Omnigears. Even the Seraphs are as strong as the Omnigears. Xenogears is quite a bit above the Omnis.</div>

 #38576  by Derithian
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:22 pm
<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>Oh yay. There is nothing better than a game bvased soley around fan service.</div>

 #38578  by Derithian
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:31 pm
<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>yeah, suspending belief is stupid. Why should we have to suspend belief to enjoy anything. Every character should be the cookie cutter mold and/or fanservice....Oh yeah, Fate Rules all</div>
 #38586  by Don
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:08 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Suppose you're in the middle of a warzone, your ship is about to be destroyed by some incredibly powerful aliens that are beyond everyone's comprehension. Some guy are trying to hold the invaders back at all costs, and then a girl ran through the crossfire and complained 'Those bullets could've killed me'. Is your reaction supposed to be:

1. Shion is a moron.
or
2. Virgil and his crew were stupid for shooting the main character of the game because she is chosen by Nephilim.

Or take this scenario. You're on this ship invaded by the Gnosis, beings that are beyond human comprehension that must be "interpreted" by the Hilbert Effect to even be damaged. Some kid walks up and blows away a Gnosis that's still in the higher plane of existence. The kid explains that because the earth is round (or actually, because some guys are good at piloting, and some guys aren't good at anything), this means he can destroy Gnosis in their higher state of existence. Is your reaction:

1. What the hell is going on here?
2. Great idea! Who cares if the two has nothing to do with each other or the fact that no one has ever defeated a higher-plane native Gnosis in the recorded history of human encounter with Gnosis?

Suspension of belief of the supernatural is fine. You can believe you can do time travel, go faster than the speed of light, or that King Arthur was actually a girl. What you can't do is expect people to completely ignore fundamental human qualities. The characters portrays in these games are, after all, human. Humans are supposed to react a certain way, and no amount of technology or magic can explain why people would be so different from what we understand.

And since I bet you're just dying to know, Fate actually messes the same issue up, a lot, which is why I no longer play any part that has Saber in it, who you're supposed to be believe is really the same person as Artoria (King Arthur) never mind that the Artoria from the flashbacks have nothing in common with the wussified Saber you get in the game.</div>

 #38587  by Don
 Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:12 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>even a 100% fan service game is better than 0% story and 33% fan service that's for sure</div>

 #38594  by SineSwiper
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:52 am
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>This coming from a NGE fan.</div>

 #38595  by SineSwiper
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:53 am
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Yep, just look at the Flintstones theme song.</div>

 #38599  by Derithian
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:05 am
<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>If that's the case then FFX-2 must be one of your favorite games. shit that fucker is nothing but fanservice</div>
 #38600  by Derithian
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:19 am
<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>The second one I get. It dous come off as rather stupid. but then again maybe when I get to that point in the game I can have an opinion on it. Also do me a favor and let us know when this fate game comes out in some kind of translated form. All yer descriptions of it do make it sound really good. I just give you shit recently cause I'm in an ass hole mood and I was getting someone an noyed with you referencing it every 2 seconds. Then of course like I always do when I'm in a bad mood I go and pull a Seeker and try to antagonize you. GO me, take my boat out trolling and pray for a nibble. So once again, I'm sorry for being a fucking prick...it just happens sometimes. Well, gotta go finish drowning my sorrows in a bottle of beer.</div>

 #38606  by Don
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:08 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Err I hated Eva... I hate most Anime, actually.</div>
 #38608  by Don
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:03 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>If you're a clueless civilian being fired upon by a squad of elite soldiers, your reaction "Hey those bullets could've killed me, that's not cool!". It is simply not believable. Scared is a logical reaction. Demanding why the equivalent of SWAT team just fired on you, no. And I bet Shion was expecting an apology too.

Or maybe the point was that Shion was a clueless stuck up scientist who thinks the world revolves around her. It's funny, Xenosaga alienates the people with the most common sense as if they're somehow stupid for saying what make sense. You have Shion representing data from KOS-MOS, the secret weapon and maybe humanity's only hope against the Gnosis, and it turned out KOS-MOS can't even walk. Cherenkov, the only person present with an ounce of common sense, reprimands Shion's incompentence. Predictably, later we see some horrible incident with KOS-MOS in the past that is somehow supposed to make Shion's incompetence understandable. If she can't handle a task like designing a weapon to save humanity who happened to kill her ex-boyfriend maybe she should have resigned instead of wasting everyone's time.

I saw an article that referred to this as the 'chicken blood' character development method (why it's called that is beyond me). Toss a bunch of big meanies pushing around the character you want to develop, add a extra dose of sob stories and/or close calls with death, and voila, instant character development. If anything bad ever happens to you, that's all the character development you ever need, and hey who cares if you want to destroy the world over things like having a bad childhood? I can live with medicore character development. I absolutely cannot stand characters whose appeal only exists in a cheap attempt to earn my sympathy. I don't mean that characters can't have tragic things happen to them, and no I do not expect every character to be super mature and suck up their past problems. But the recent RPG trend is pretty much like "oh look at me I have a bad past that's why I'm totally screwed up! Please pity me!" It's so rampant in RPG these days because it's easy to write a sob story and near-death encounter heroism instead of actually developing a character, and it usually works.

I know the guy who's translating Fate and by my estimation it'd be years before he's done with it. There are summaries of the game but it doesn't do the game justice. Ironically, Fate's first arc is a by the book example of how to create a sob story, 'pity me' character development, and it's so masterfully disguised, too. Thank goodness there are other characters in Fate who needs not such gimmicks to verify their existence.</div>
 #38609  by Don
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:05 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>If you're a clueless civilian being fired upon by a squad of elite soldiers, your reaction won't be "Hey those bullets could've killed me, that's not cool!" It is simply not believable. Scared is a logical reaction. Demanding why the equivalent of SWAT team just fired on you, no. And I bet Shion was expecting an apology too.

Or maybe the point was that Shion was a clueless stuck up scientist who thinks the world revolves around her. It's funny, Xenosaga alienates the people with the most common sense as if they're somehow stupid for saying what make sense. You have Shion representing data from KOS-MOS, the secret weapon and maybe humanity's only hope against the Gnosis, and it turned out KOS-MOS can't even walk. Cherenkov, the only person present with an ounce of common sense, reprimands Shion's incompentence. Predictably, later we see some horrible incident with KOS-MOS in the past that is somehow supposed to make Shion's incompetence understandable. If she can't handle a task like designing a weapon to save humanity who happened to kill her ex-boyfriend maybe she should have resigned instead of wasting everyone's time.

I saw an article that referred to this as the 'chicken blood' character development method (why it's called that is beyond me). Toss a bunch of big meanies pushing around the character you want to develop, add a extra dose of sob stories and/or close calls with death, and voila, instant character development. If anything bad ever happens to you, that's all the character development you ever need, and hey who cares if you want to destroy the world over things like having a bad childhood? I can live with medicore character development. I absolutely cannot stand characters whose appeal only exists in a cheap attempt to earn my sympathy. I don't mean that characters can't have tragic things happen to them, and no I do not expect every character to be super mature and suck up their past problems. But the recent RPG trend is pretty much like "oh look at me I have a bad past that's why I'm totally screwed up! Please pity me!" It's so rampant in RPG these days because it's easy to write a sob story and near-death encounter heroism instead of actually developing a character, and it usually works.

I know the guy who's translating Fate and by my estimation it'd be years before he's done with it. There are summaries of the game but it doesn't do the game justice. Ironically, Fate's first arc is a by the book example of how to create a sob story, 'pity me' character development, and it's so masterfully disguised, too. Thank goodness there are other characters in Fate who needs not such gimmicks to verify their existence.</div>

 #38621  by Zeus
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:44 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Why do you think they call them "gay"?</div>

 #38627  by Don
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:19 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I don't find the girls in FFX2 remotely interesting, certainly not Yuna and Rikku anyway. Paine is merely average.</div>

 #38633  by Derithian
 Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:47 pm
<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>Ok no you don't say hey those bullets could have hit me you scream holy fuck you could have killed me but thank fucking god you are here.</div>