Question, For those who do not have an unusual interest in the plot of Final Fantasy 1, what makes 9 better than 7?

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>This is what you're saying, because FFVII and Xenogears have these old outdated graphics, that means the game uses super deformed graphics!

This is WRONG. Because making the game "Super Deformed" has nothing to do with graphics, that's what I'm trying to pound into your head. I'm not trying to embarrass you, make you look stupid, or argue for the sake of arguing, I'm trying to explain the difference!

If you took the cast of Final Fantasy VI made them all into a buncha retard midgets with short arms and big heads THEN you'd have a super deformed cast, you'd never be able to tell because of FFVI's graphics but THAT'S what it means when the casts is super deformed!!!

Now FFVI DOESN'T have Super-Deformed characters, why? Because they're normal. Look at the concept art NORMAL.

FFVII's cast of characters don't look like freaks, what they look like, which is no 100% apparent thanks to Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, is NORMAL PEOPLE. Barret isn't some big freak, he's a big built black man who looks like he works in construction(which is probley what he did at his old home town). Cloud isn't weird, he's a relatively skinny white boy who wield's a large sword(weapon size does not = super deformed). Tifa is well rounded white girl(Her chest is suspect, but then so is Lara Croft's). They're normal there's nothing out of the ordinary!

If you take one look at FFIX's cast of characters they're a buncha weird looking freaks. Dagger's head is huge as hell, and she has tiny arms & hands. Zidane has a flat face, and he's short. That guard who wears armor also has giant lips, big eyes, is freakishly tall and has giant hands. Are you getting it Seek? It has nothing to do with how the game's graphics looks! It's how the designs of the characters are made. THAT'S SUPER DEFORMED. Geez.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>LOL no his head isn't. In the end I know I'm dealing with a normal cast of characters. Look at Cloud in the Advent Children trailer, he's normal.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '><a href="http://fffantasy2000.tripod.com/ff7scre ... s07.jpg</a>
<a href="http://fffantasy2000.tripod.com/ff7scre ... s03.jpg</a>

<a href="http://fffantasy2000.tripod.com/ff9/scr ... s06.jpg</a>
<a href="http://fffantasy2000.tripod.com/ff9/scr ... s13.jpg</a>

<a href="http://fffantasy2000.tripod.com/ff8/scr ... g</a></div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>The two shots of Dagger, because that's how she's designed. The Aeris and Sephiroth shots are a result yet again, of lack of technology....I'm tired of arguing, cause you'll never get it.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Perhaps you need a pair of glasses, because very clearly that is false.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>How about this Seeker, if I took the SD Gundam Series and put them on an 8-bit cart and then made an NES game, wouly they or would they not be super deformed because of the graphical limitations?</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Sine said he didn't like the graphics of FF9 because they were super deformed. The graphics in Xenogears, FFT, and FF7 were all even closer to the definition of super deformed than FF9, that much is plainly obvious, there is no argument there. I simply pointed out this fact, and you for some reason are actually trying to argue against factual information. FF8 was the first FF game to use realistic graphics styles, every major review/preview of the game will say this, just look at IGN's for an example.

You also brought up that somehow the FMV is what matters (even though it only accounts for about 1% of the game or less):

<a href="http://fffantasy2000.tripod.com/ff7scre ... s07.jpg</a>
<a href="http://fffantasy2000.tripod.com/ff9/scr ... s13.jpg</a>

The eyes are larger on the FF7 characters, and the graphics more resemble that of the definition of Super deformed. Your descriptions of characters in FF9 and FF7 are VERY inacurate.

As you can see in the screenshots I posted, the FF7 characters have bigger heads than the FF9 characters, they also have bigger eyes. The title of something does not change what it is, if I called a bullfrog a Chaswazer, it's still the same creature as a bullfrog. If someone doesn't like FF9 because the graphics look super deformed to them, then they shouldn't like Xenogears, Final Fantasy 7, or Final Fantasy Tactics either, because the character models in those games are even closer to the super deformed Anime style; there is no argument there.

To argue that FF7, Xenogears, or FFT, aren't SD style is the same as trying to argue that FFT is not a medieval setting. To argue that FF7's graphics aren't SD because Advent Children isn't is also bad arguing, that's the same as arguing that FF9's graphics aren't SD because FF10's aren't either. Besides, I have seen no evidence stating that FF7 was not SD style, where does Square ever say that they made the character models realistic? The only time they ever stated anything like that was when they made FF8, and that can be seen just by reading up about the game in most websites previews for it, or their reviews. I've already posted a review that says FF7 has SD graphics.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Because of graphical limitations all NES games are 2D as well. Same as how they all use sprite models.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>FF9 and FF10 aren't related in any way shape or form. FFVII:AC is a direct sequel, your logic is flawed. An offical statement from Square came out that they were using SD for FFIX, this isn't the case with any other games. Your reviews opinions are just that, opinion, not fact.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>You didn't answer my question, would they or would they not be super deformed?</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>"FF9 and FF10 aren't related in any way shape or form."

FF10 is the next Final Fantasy game, it also uses many of the same elements of FF9 such as items, summon creatures, etc. They are by the same company.


"FFVII:AC is a direct sequel your logic is flawed."

Explain how this logically means that the graphics are supposed to be the same? They aren't, they do not have the same artists, they do not even have the same script author. Look at Batman for example, does the movie Batman at all resemble the TV show Batman, not in the slightest, one is a Comedy, the other is a drama. The only resemblance is that they look similar, though one has a blue uniform while the other has a black one. How about Zelda? Wind Waker is a direct sequel to Ocarina of time, are the graphics the same style?


"An offical statement from Square came out that they were using SD for FFIX, this isn't the case with any other games."

That's an inaccurate statement. An official statement came out from Square that they were going back to the traditional SD style graphics before FF8. An official statement also came from Square in 1998 that Final Fantasy 8 would be using realistic graphics as opposed to the traditional style used up until that point, you can find those stories in the archives of RPGamer and IGN.

"Your reviews opinions are just that, opinion, not fact."

The screenshots I posted, however, are fact. They are directly from the game, and prove my point. There is no argument.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>OK.</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I loved the ATE and the fact that Square remembered what the hell classes were all about, one of the major downfalls of the Materia system in 7. 9 wasn't hard at all and very much familiar to old-school players, which also helped</div>

[Blotus]

<div style='font: 10pt "arial narrow"; text-align: left; padding: 0% 5% 0% 5%; '>You're both retarded.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Hush before I crush you in firebat madness.</div>

[Derithian]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>what the hell is this firebat madness</div>

[Don]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Err, yeah like, all your guys instantly die because you don't have anti-(whatever status effect), and then next time you have it on and it's very easy. Great system.</div>

[Derithian]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>actually I think you must really really suck. the game was insanely easy. I think I died once my whole way through+</div>

[Lox]

<div style='font: bold 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I've been skimming it a little bit. What Simpsons reference are you referring to? :)</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Yeah, that's basically my experience in the game. Familiar battle system, neat ATE addition, but very simple. I just loved the classic story and feel of the game</div>

[Don]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Of course the game isn't hard. I went with only 2 people who can do melee damage when you've to fight Arc in the can't use magic area and didn't have anti-confusion and still beat him. The point is that the only difficulty of the game comes from being nailed by status effects that you can't possibly predict ahead of time that is utterly trivialized by the anti-status system once you know what they are.

And Trance pretty much rips up bosses, not that it's necessary to use them.</div>

[Don]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>what are you talking about? Every Final Fantasy has had the same battle system unless you call the trivial differences that determine your stats/abilities as a new system.</div>

[Don]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Of course the game isn't hard. I went with only 2 people who can do melee damage when you've to fight Arc in the can't use magic area and didn't have anti-confusion and still beat him. The point is that the only difficulty of the game comes from being nailed by status effects that you can't possibly predict ahead of time that is utterly trivialized by the anti-status system once you know what they are.

Go look at FFX if you want a game that actually uses status effect well. None of this hit everyone with confusion/stone/freezing/burning/berserk stuff with no possibility of resist unless you already know what's coming. Of course once you get enough points to allocate into the ATE system you'd just put anti everything that can mess you up, the same way you'd play SO2 and always have paralysis and stone immunity regardless of what you're fighting because they're way overused and you can get hit by status effect from stuff that can barely hit you and instantly gameover.</div>

[Agent 57]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>"The ironing is delicious." You should know that one.</div>

[Lox]

<div style='font: bold 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I didn't read your message closely enough to even see that. :) But, yes, good episode. Season 11'll be out on DVD in oh...17 years.</div>

[Agent 57]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>*cries*</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>None of those were SD graphics. FFT was medieval, but they pulled off the storyline soooo well to make up for it. The same guys are doing FF12, so I'm hopeful on that one, too.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>KotR was hard enough to get anyway. I don't see how people claim it was sooo cheap, when it took sooo long to get.</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>The Materia system in 7 completely unbalanced the game (ie. Cloud was the best at EVERYTHING) and took away the whole class system. That was brought back in 7. That's a pretty big difference</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>But anybody could have been the best at anything, it just so happened Cloud was because he was always in your party.</div>

[Blotus]

<div style='font: 10pt "arial narrow"; text-align: left; padding: 0% 5% 0% 5%; '>My point being that any character in the game could use any materia. The only difference between the characters in battle were their limit breaks.</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Except when he was stupid. That is a fundamental problem in a group-based battle system: you can't have one God or it just doesn't work.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>My last play through a month ago I stocked up on a lot of items, so it didn't really make for much of a problem with me unless I got lazy. I didn't finish the game this last time though, and I am not sure if I will, I just didn't find it interesting, it has a very low level of replayability even compared to other FF games.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I have, he does not look very much at all like Cloud from FF7. Different artists, different style.</div>

[Stephen]

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Just like how any character in FF VI could use any Esper, and how any character in FF VIII could use any spell or Guardian Force...</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Hush you, everyone knows here that FFVI was perfect in every pay possible, to talk negatively about that game here is heresy!!!.</div>

[Don]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Varied characters are simply a bad idea in a game without any concept of 'cover'. FFX for example you could have Yuna or Lulu who has half of the HPs that can evade half of the time compare to say Auron with double the HP and 0 evade. Problem is that 50% of the time Yuna/Lulu would go down in one hit and then you're screwed, and most special attacks are guaranteed to hit which makes it 100% of the time. So in the end Rikku using Al Bhed potions is a better healer even though she evades 0% because she has like 80% HP of Tidus.

There is very little motivation to pack an offensive-minded team in any of the FFs due to the length the battle takes (assuming you're not overleveled). Take FF9, Vivi has a lot less HP than others, but he doesn't do a lot more damage than others (actually Steiner and Zidane both hit 9999 easy in Trance).</div>

[Don]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>In Enix DQ games, the hero was best at magic and attack, that's why he's the hero. I've no problem with hero being significantly stronger than the rest of the party.</div>

[Don]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>KoTR isn't something you can just stumble upon. I don't know why people complain about it.</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>He is obviously delusional. He probably thinks FF7 is a good game :-)</div>

[Zeus]

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Significantly stronger? No, that's why he's the hero. Rendering nearly all of the other characters useless? Yes, big problem with that. By the end, only Cid was of any real use to me other than Cloud (never got Vincent), the third (often Tifa) was just a plug.</div>

[Don]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I don't remember Cloud having any higher attributes than anyone else aside from better limit breaks.</div>

[Stephen]

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Then wrap me in diapers and toss me in the funny farm. ;)</div>

[Derithian]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>yeah but in FF6 they kept their individuality. they could all used different armor and weapons. all had differens special skills that made them different from one another. or are you going to tell me that blitz and tool are the exact same command</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>After enough leveling, individual skills didn't matter.</div>

[Don]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>FF6 some character skills are more like limit breaks that can be used every round (Bum Rush, Noiseblaster in the first half of the game). There is no discernible difference in any attributes between the characters except magic (the natural spellcasters start off with a bit higher). And, interesting enough, 2 of the spellcasters (Terra and Celes) can use the big swords that pretty much blow everything away in terms of damage.</div>

[Julius Seeker]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I much prefer systems that use Ability points of some sort for advancement. I like to shape my parties the way I want to, not the way the game dictates, I absolutely despised Final Fantasy II's locked in system, no customizability, the only thing possible to do was to level up. Only Cecil really mattered in battle, the others just did their thing. It is the exact same game every time.

The original Final Fantasy on NES I liked, you could pick whatever characters you wanted for your team, and the game is relatively short. If you made a mistake, it's not as if you're wasting an enormous amount of time. FF1 is the sort of game where it is alright to fail.

FF8 is the extreme AP system. AP reolves around GF's, eventually if you decide to fight a lot and accomplish all the mini games you can make a lot of near perfect characters, but generally characters grow based on the AP they acquire. There are dozens of choices available for advancement in the beginning, so it is based around the decisions you make. The beauty of the system is that things aren't locked in, it is possible to mix and match GF's. Choose the abilities you wish to use from each GF to equip to your characters, etc... Some abilities boost stats, while others give battle commands, and some abilities do other things such as lower encounters, eliminate encounters, find hidden draw sources, refine items to various types of magic, etc... While I don't believe the system is absolutely perfect, I like it the best of any system to date. Were I developing the game, I would make it so that if a GF dies in battle, all of its attributes dissappear with it (I never use GF's), I would also power up GF's significantly, and make boss battles so it is almost esential to use them. For magic, I would make it so that magic is learned once 100 points are acquired (IE, if you draw or refine 100 Ultima, you learn the spell); spells would then require MP to use. To learn spells however, I would make it so that in order to refine or draw certain types of magic, the GF must have learned how to do it, (IE, the GF equipped to a character must have the ability of Fire to draw/refine Fire magic, or Firaga to draw/refine firaga magic). I would consider eliminating draw in favour of a system purely based on refinement (since that is how most players play it anyways) and create many new ways to acquire items for magic. Then, in my opinion, would the AP system be perfect.</div>

[Gentz]

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>That's why Chrono Trigger ruled.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>FFX did it best I suppose. You could branch out into your own class late in the game, but by that point it really didn't matter.</div>

[Derithian]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>well yeah but cpomparing it to limit breaks isn't true limit breaks were like ffVI's near death attacks that were fucking awesome. some of those were so badass......</div>