The Other Worlds Shrine

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  • Saw Matrix 2

  • Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
 #55164  by Zeus
 Tue May 20, 2003 5:52 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Can't really give a full opinion since this movie is really nothing on it's own other than another chapter. Final opinion on all 3 movies will come in November, when we finally have the entire story. Unlike Lord of the Rings, we're not looking at how well it was translated over to screen, we just don't know what the full story is yet....

Very, very good overall, but with a few complaints. These are minor ones which keep the movie from the top tier as opposed to bringing it down to Pearl Harbor level (just like my complaints from the first):

1) What is Agent Smith's motivation for going after Neo? I know it's because of Neo that he was destroyed, which led to his ostracization, but it can't just be a you-got-me-so-I-gotta-get-you thing. I mean, he can basically dominate the Matrix and do whatever he wants, yet all he tries to do is get in Neo's way. Just seemed like a tacked-on bad guy in a lot of ways when they coulda used him so much better.

2) The freakin' love story dominating again. The entire orgy/love scene was just a waste and a half, the thing between Link and the sister of Tank and his little bro was tacked on, and Neo saving Trinity by putting his hand into her chest and reviving her - which in turn revived her in "real life" - was a little, um, much. The last one might be remedied by what happens in the final chapter (easily explained if the "real world" is just another Matrix) but at this juncture, seemed a little ridiculous. I had zero issues with him pulling out the bullet, that's fully within his grasp, but him reviving her the way she revived him was a little lame....

3) This one is probably purely a product of the fact the third film isn't out yet, but what the hell was with that guy who almost assassinated Neo? There was NOTHING on him at all, he just wanted to kill Neo and boom, he was there at the end....stupid. But that will for sure be solved in the next one, just like my complaint on how Zion was ignored in the first one was solved by this one.

Like I said before, because these are really one big movie with different chapters as opposed to 3 separate films, I really can't finalize my opinion until all three movies are out. The second is definetely an excellent extension of the first and solved some issues I had with the original, but I swear, this love story is gonna be the bane of the series. At least I'm used to it, it doesn't get to me as much as it would. They just have to tack on love stories in all of these freaking big-budget flicks, it's required.

Still, I can never forgive the kiss in the original (even though I'm OK with the flying and the lack of explanation on Zion now) and I think the heart pumping of Trinity to bring her back to live might join it, but I'll have to wait 'til next film to see.....</div>
 #55180  by SineSwiper
 Wed May 21, 2003 6:16 am
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>
1) What is Agent Smith's motivation for going after Neo? I know it's because of Neo that he was destroyed, which led to his ostracization, but it can't just be a you-got-me-so-I-gotta-get-you thing. I mean, he can basically dominate the Matrix and do whatever he wants, yet all he tries to do is get in Neo's way. Just seemed like a tacked-on bad guy in a lot of ways when they coulda used him so much better.
He's looking for a way out, which in some ways he already achieved, but of course, because you were too drunk to see that (see below), you didn't get this.

Like you said, everything else will be explained in the third movie. A lot of this tacked on bullshit is just you not knowing every faceut of the story. NOTHING, I repeat, N-O-T-H-I-N-G is tacked on! It is explained somewhere in the story, whether it's the third movie, the game, the anime, or at least a detail in a previous movie that you didn't notice. You're not getting the whole picture on purpose, and it's your fault if you feel that its "tacked on".

(Didn't you see the previews? Almost looks like Smith is trying to take over the Matrix and clone himself on every person.)
2) The freakin' love story dominating again. The entire orgy/love scene was just a waste and a half
Why is everybody bitching about the Zion scenes? OH MY FUCKING GOD, you mean I have to listen to STORYLINE?! Shit, I thought it was a two-hour fight scene.

And the dance scene was just fine the way it was. You get to see some free titty. Since when does anybody bitch about seeing too many boobies?

Seriously, the scene was done just fine. It was there to establish a strong connection between Neo and Trinity, as well as a sense of what Zion is like at its raw and spiritual level. It parallels the scene where Neo is talking with the councilman about the machines they depend on. On one end, Zion is dancing with their human instincts (with all of the rocks and no technology), while machines run the lights, etc.
the thing between Link and the sister of Tank and his little bro was tacked on
Again, nothing was tacked on. You're just too misinformed to notice. They wrote the fucking thing AS a trilogy from the very beginning. Everything was thought out.
Neo saving Trinity by putting his hand into her chest and reviving her - which in turn revived her in "real life" - was a little, um, much. The last one might be remedied by what happens in the final chapter (easily explained if the "real world" is just another Matrix) but at this juncture, seemed a little ridiculous. I had zero issues with him pulling out the bullet, that's fully within his grasp, but him reviving her the way she revived him was a little lame....
Okay, that was a little lame, but they wanted something that paralleled the kiss scene, which you didn't like anyway. Though, I think it was possible, if he can produce electricity or something similar. We also don't know what happened after he met the Artitect, which seemed to change him somehow. Also, I don't buy this "another Matrix" bit, simply because everybody is saying it. I thought that he merely had some control over the machines now.
3) This one is probably purely a product of the fact the third film isn't out yet, but what the hell was with that guy who almost assassinated Neo? There was NOTHING on him at all, he just wanted to kill Neo and boom, he was there at the end....stupid. But that will for sure be solved in the next one, just like my complaint on how Zion was ignored in the first one was solved by this one.
Excuse me?! Did you not watch the movie or something? That's Agent Smith. Remember the scene where he takes over that guy's Matrix body? And then he answers the telephone?

Again, were you fucking drunk or something? Please, just buy another ticket and watch the movie AGAIN.
Like I said before, because these are really one big movie with different chapters as opposed to 3 separate films, I really can't finalize my opinion until all three movies are out. The second is definetely an excellent extension of the first and solved some issues I had with the original, but I swear, this love story is gonna be the bane of the series. At least I'm used to it, it doesn't get to me as much as it would. They just have to tack on love stories in all of these freaking big-budget flicks, it's required.
It's not TACKED ON!!!! IT'S THE FUCKING POINT OF THE ENTIRE FUCKING MOVIE!!!! Did you even hear the conversation about the other six Ones with the Artitect? Why do I need to explain EVERYTHING to you? Now I know why you have such a different view of movies: you only process half of the movie, and throw away the other half.
Still, I can never forgive the kiss in the original (even though I'm OK with the flying and the lack of explanation on Zion now) and I think the heart pumping of Trinity to bring her back to live might join it, but I'll have to wait 'til next film to see.....
Lack of explanation on Zion? Jesus fucking Christ! You just fall asleep throughout half the movie. Shit, there's still that conversation of the Artitect posted here, so fucking read it. As far as the kiss and the flying, both are explained <a href="http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.ht ... </a>.</div>
 #55185  by G-man Joe
 Wed May 21, 2003 8:19 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>The rave cave scene was the freedom of the human body to express its passions and expression through dance. Something they could not have done while they were human batteries for the Matrix. I like how they did the scene...but it was long and drawn out.</div>
 #55200  by G-man Joe
 Wed May 21, 2003 2:42 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>I still like the idea that Persephone is an Intuitive Program and this gave her the curiosity about human emotions (in this case love)

Now read what the Architect said:

"Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche"

To investigate certian aspects of the human psyche. If that doesn't scream Persephone I dont know what does. Certian aspects... love. Neo, the anomoly, the culmination of the bug, is driven by what?

Love.</div>
 #55211  by Ishamael
 Thu May 22, 2003 4:53 am
<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>Persephone is definitely a strong possibility. But if she's supposed to be working with the Architect, then why does she help Neo get the keymaker? But of course, it's entirely possible that the Architect <i>wants</i> Neo to get the Keymaker...

Ayeyayaye, I have a headache...</div>
 #55216  by Zeus
 Thu May 22, 2003 9:22 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Of course the Architect wants Neo to get the Keymaker, that's how he upgrades to the next version of the Matrix....</div>
 #55220  by G-man Joe
 Thu May 22, 2003 10:19 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>...French guy is another rogue program that the Oracle and Architect wouldn't mind seeing "deleted". But they needed the Keymaker to escape more than they wanted Frenchie deleted. Persephone could care less, it seems.</div>
 #55226  by Ishamael
 Thu May 22, 2003 2:28 pm
<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>When I reread my post, I realized that I stated something whose answer is in my post. This feels like one of those times when you ask a question with an obvious answer out loud to your friends, but you only get that's it's obvious and stupid after you say it out loud. Meanwhile, everyone is looking at you like a moron. :)

Beware the dangers of posting early in the morning after several beers children.</div>
 #55227  by Ishamael
 Thu May 22, 2003 2:29 pm
<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>Hmm, you mentioned the Oracle and Architect together. So you think they're in cahoots? I've heard that as a theory before and I can definitely buy it...but she seems like such a <i>nice</i> old lady. :)</div>
 #55231  by SineSwiper
 Thu May 22, 2003 2:46 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>When Neo said "The Oracle", the Architect said "Please!" sarcasically. Though, I thought that to because he didn't like the name/phrase that she was calling herself, but it could have also meant that Neo didn't have the right answer.

However, intuition means "immediate cognition" which the Oracle displays and Persephone, the "wife of Hades", does not. The Architect, with a skill for word usages and their exact meanings, would not throw out that word just for the hell of it.</div>

 #55246  by Kupek
 Fri May 23, 2003 10:27 am
<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>That was my understanding (your first paragraph). Neo was not contradicted.</div>

 #55247  by G-man Joe
 Fri May 23, 2003 10:31 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>I'm sure it was meant to be as ambiguous as possible. But I'm gonna go with "Please" = "Wrong"</div>

 #55251  by Kupek
 Fri May 23, 2003 1:08 pm
<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I just can't make that interpretation make sense without a direct contradiction.</div>

 #55252  by G-man Joe
 Fri May 23, 2003 2:41 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>Then make it so. >8^U</div>