Trying to kick my sister out

[SineSwiper]

Becca, my sister, has been living with us in our new house since last July. She was going to move out anyway (from our parents' house at 18), so we figured that we've let her move into our new house. While we didn't choose our house because of her, we did keep that in mind when we were shopping. Our house is rather nice because it's sorta like a converted duplex, so she has her own room and kitchen for herself, as well as her own computer room.

We agreed on $150/mo, which in any normal terms is damn near stealing. (You couldn't get half a two-BR apartment for that much.) She also pays her cell phone that's on our plan @ $10/mo (the cost of an extra phone on our plan). She's supposed to get her own food and use her kitchen. Because she was still looking for a job at the time, we agreed that she didn't have to pay rent until November, and in return, she would help paint around the house.

So far, I've seen maybe $300. She has a fairly steady job paying around $9-10/hr. Her cell phone bill has constantly run up because she has all of these 1-2 minutes calls on her record. (Yes, it's only 500 minutes, but I hardly ever used much on my old 100 minute account.) So, her part of the cell phone bill is up to $50/mo, and I had to get a new plan to keep her from running up the bill. She doesn't use her kitchen, and eats our food. She complains that there's nothing to eat, because she's on this stupid low-carb diet shit. To top it off, she had a bounced check that caused a lot of problems on our end.

So, this debt is adding up, and it seems like she's trying to take advantage of us because we're family. The lack of money from holding up her end of the bargain is hurting us. We're not exactly poor, but I've having a very hard time just trying to pay off my credit card debt when I have to pay a $1000/mo house payment, $80/mo on my cell phone, shitloads in electric/gas, and lots in food. (I just spent 200 fucking dollars in mostly MEAT!)

Anyway, last night, I was punishing the dogs for escaping and running around the neighborhood. Shellie and Becca start yelling at me for it. (Becca has a worse temper than I do, so we tend to argue a lot.) Becca and I get into a shouting match, until she starts threatening to kick my ass if I "abuse" the dogs again. Again, she's not even 19, and I'm 26. I tell her to never threaten me in my house again, and eventually yell at her to get out of my house. In the end, Becca drives off, Shellie's crying about the whole mess, and I had to leave for work.

Granted, I have a temper problem myself, but it just seemed like the last straw. At the same time, if she left, it still wouldn't be my ideal situation. Sure, she wouldn't be eating my food, but I'm still left with my house payments and cell phone bills. When we're not arguing, I do enjoy her company. Sometimes we hold parties at our house with some of her friends, whom I get along with. I actually missed her when she almost totally disappeared with her (now ex-)boyfriend for about a month or two.

On the other hand, it seems like she's never going to learn unless the Real World is thrust upon her. When I moved out, I was working stock in Target or as a gas clerk at StupidAmerica, living off of macaroni & cheese and ramen noodles (or 99 cent snack food at SA), with no car insurance, a broken down 12-year-old car, and an expensive apartment payment. My parents used to be poor when my dad was a starving drummer, living in a small and shitty house, and on food stamps. It seems like Becca just doesn't know what it's like to actually be on your own, because she basically just moved in from living free at our parents' house, to living damn near free at our house.

I'm in this bind, because I still don't know if I really want to kick my sister out or not.

[Kupek]

Have you ever talked about money other than when she first moved in? Is she aware of the bills you pay (not just that they exist, but the amounts)?

[the Gray]

Wow, that's a pretty complex situation there. I get pissed at my roomates for not holding up their end of fucking cleaning duties! Your situation is exactly why I wouldn't let my 19 yr old brother move in with me. Also why I won't let my 18yr old sister move in with me, even though it would get her away from my Dad & his Hellbeast wife.

Money issues have to be settled. Especially with family. That shit will eat away at you and become a constant source of resentment. This very thing has resulted in an animostity riddled relationship between my Father, his twin brother and my Aunt. Money issues bring out the worst in people.

So I would say you really need to sit her down, with the bills etc, and explain why this is causing you a problem. I had to do this with 2 guys who weren't family, so it will probably be harder for you. But, if you keep it rational and keep it about the rent/bills and not a personal thing. She should understand.

19 is high time to learn that life can be hard.

[SineSwiper]

Have you ever talked about money other than when she first moved in? Is she aware of the bills you pay (not just that they exist, but the amounts)?

Quite a few times, and I'm quite vocal about it. She dismisses whatever arguments that I say about the bills I have to pay as me simply spending too much money on other things. I manage my money pretty well, but that only goes so far.

In reality, I wonder how much $200 or so a month would really impact, anyway. Maybe that and the whole food thing would actually help a bit more. Considering she has about a third of the house, I should be charging her a third of the rent, but I knew she was just starting out, so I wasn't about to try to charge her a landlord's prices.

The main thing that pisses me off is the fact that I was able to power-save about $4000 for a deposit on the house in the span of a few months, but I can't seem to pay off the post-house credit card debt. Every time I seem to be making progress, something comes up and I break even again. I'm paying an extra $325/mo between my previous and current house (rental to ownership), but there's plenty of hard-to-measure costs with stuff like food and gas, so I don't know for sure how much my cost-of-living has gone up.

[Imakeholesinu]

Here's what I would do...
1) Tally up how much she's paid verse how much she owes.
2) Add in next month's rent, food, cell, gas, water, electric bill
3) Give her the total and then offer a finance plan
4) Ask her work to garnish her wages, I believe land lords can do this legally to recoup on broken leases.
5) Tell her this is the real world and she needs to really really straighten up.

She sounds a lot like the douche bag that moved into my apartment this past year. His friend is down here now living on our couch with one set of clothes and $30. He leaves on Thursday (or so we hope). Roommates suck.

Also, I'd bump her rent up to $200 a month if she's making $10 an hour. I don't even make that with a $300 a month payment.

[Kupek]

Quite a few times, and I'm quite vocal about it. She dismisses whatever arguments that I say about the bills I have to pay as me simply spending too much money on other things.

She's not in a position to dismiss you "arguments." She lives in your house, therefore she pays rent. There's no argument you need to make. My roommate doesn't need to make arguments to get me to pay my share of the rent each month; I do so because I want to continue living there.

It sounds like she is treating her living situation like it's no different from living with your parents. She needs to understand that it is different. You're only asking $150 a month from her, which is incredibley cheap; she won't find any place to live for anywhere near that price. And she's your younger sister, so it makes sense that you're not asking that much from her. But she has to contribute <i>something</i>. Don't yell, don't threathen, just explain the realities of the situation. You're not your parents, you have less income, and you can't support her as well as yourself and your fiance.

[Kupek]

4) Ask her work to garnish her wages, I believe land lords can do this legally to recoup on broken leases.

I think that depends on the state - maybe even the city. My parents still own the townhouse they bought in 1978 or so, and have been renting it out since we moved to their current house in 1983. They had a women who skipped out on several months rent. They sued her and won (she didn't even show up). But basically, the only outcome was that the city of Fairfax legally recognized that she owed my parents money. The state is only willing to garnish wages if the money is owed to the state.

Things might be different elsewhere, but that's how it is where I'm from.

[Julius Seeker]

NEVER get ANY sort of a phone plan which involves a woman. Guys, our phone calls always have a function; even those that seem to not have a function actually in fact do (our seemingly useless phone calls are usually are made for the specific function of strengthening an existing relationship); women on the otherhand, they make phonecalls for no reason, just because they're bored, and they tend to do this quite often!

200 dollars worth in meat, WOW, I envy you, I rarely see more than $20 in the house at a time (damn vegans!).

About the issue with your sister, I can't give you advice on the situation though; it sounds fairly unique. I don't know if I could kick my sister to the curb, or even one of my cousins. I think the best thing to do would be to have a joint bank account, and make sure her pay cheques go into there; since your her brother, she should trust you enough not to rip her off, but to take only what is required. If she doesn't want to do this for whatever reason, then just sit down with her and ask her "What is it that you want to do with your future?" Also explain, "I make enough money to support 2 people, pay the bills, and bring food home for. If I had the resources to support you as well, I would. Because I do not, and you do have those resources, I need you to support yourself while living in this household. I need you to help support this household which we both live in. You are my sister, my family, if you cannot help me here, then what is the reason for it?" Don't let her dismiss you either, make sure she listens; if she does dismiss you, then just tell her that you won't be able to support her anymore, but you will help her find a place of her own. Then she can take a look at some real rent prices =)

[Shellie]

NEVER get ANY sort of a phone plan which involves a woman. Guys, our phone calls always have a function; even those that seem to not have a function actually in fact do (our seemingly useless phone calls are usually are made for the specific function of strengthening an existing relationship); women on the otherhand, they make phonecalls for no reason, just because they're bored, and they tend to do this quite often!

I resent that remark The only time I use my cell phone is in emergencies (need directions to a place) or very rarely when I need to immediately get a hold of someone when Im not at home. I use less minutes than Sine. I was actually thinking about cancelling my phone since I rarely use it, but it has been helpful on a couple of occasions.

About the issue with your sister, I can't give you advice on the situation though; it sounds fairly unique. I don't know if I could kick my sister to the curb, or even one of my cousins. I think the best thing to do would be to have a joint bank account, and make sure her pay cheques go into there; since your her brother, she should trust you enough not to rip her off, but to take only what is required. If she doesn't want to do this for whatever reason, then just sit down with her and ask her "What is it that you want to do with your future?" Also explain, "I make enough money to support 2 people, pay the bills, and bring food home for. If I had the resources to support you as well, I would. Because I do not, and you do have those resources, I need you to support yourself while living in this household. I need you to help support this household which we both live in. You are my sister, my family, if you cannot help me here, then what is the reason for it?" Don't let her dismiss you either, make sure she listens; if she does dismiss you, then just tell her that you won't be able to support her anymore, but you will help her find a place of her own. Then she can take a look at some real rent prices =)

I think this is a good idea. Unfortunately, on subjects like this, they instigate each other so they end up yelling and not communicating. So it's very hard for them to have a civil conversation about this. I'll probably have to do it.

[Kupek]

Unfortunately, on subjects like this, they instigate each other so they end up yelling and not communicating. So it's very hard for them to have a civil conversation about this.

Then they should learn how.

[Shellie]

Unfortunately, on subjects like this, they instigate each other so they end up yelling and not communicating. So it's very hard for them to have a civil conversation about this.

Then they should learn how.

Its very hard to teach an 18 year old anything.

[kali o.]

Eh. deleted orginal reply...became too wordy.

$150 per month. Fair? Very. Ensure she pays it. Make it clear that she is getting a great deal and at the very least you expect she pay this amount of the 1st of every month. If she doesn't, essentially spitting in the face of a brother that's doing her a favor, she can leave for a few months and see what real world costs are.

The cell phone is a dumb idea. Thats a scalable bill you have no control over. Have her get her own phone/jack/number for her room. She'll probably need to pay a deposit to the phone company since she has no credit history with them. It's actually a good idea that she starts developing credit history in general.

Food. Make it clear your food is yours, hers is hers. Jesus, you are complaining she eats your food then complain you spent so and so money buying food she could eat. Make up your mind.

Overall:

If she pays her $150 in rent it is her house too. You need to work hard to remember that. This is the main part of the deal YOU put down...if you can't afford the favor you offered (money getting tight), that's your problem. What I mean is...if your sister pays her $150 dollars in rent, what she does with her time (work, attitude, "learning about real life") is none of your business. You need to treat her like a tenant, not like you are her daddy. Saying to her "this is my house, don't ever threaten me" and "get out of my home" after an argument sounds like you are attaching more than $150 bucks to this arrangement...

You can't grant favors to people than slap them in the face with it every time you get stressed. That's simply not fair.

Start treating the arrangement like a tenant, not a sister thing. Be business-like about it. And if you can't do that or can't afford her living there, ask her to leave and explain why. Better to temproarily ruin the the relationship than poison it over the long term.

PS - And someone mentioned "garnishing" wages...pretty drastic and it shouldn't come to that. She should leave before thats an option. That said, depending on your local bylaws, the legality could depend on you having: home inspected for rental, lease in place, declare rent as income. All of which I'm betting aren't done.